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Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:03:00 - [1] Someone asked me to help them on a level 4 mission in .5 sec security space. I agreed to help, because I'm a nice guy and all. I tell him I'm ready and he warps us. I then end up out in the middle of nowhere, sitting in front of 2 pirates. I quickly leave the gang as I'm being targetted, next thing I know I am warp scrambled and my 350 mill Raven is destroyed. Where was Concord? Is this some kind of exploit? Is it really fair that I get my ship blown up in high security for offering to help someone out? _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:06:00 - [2] you joined a gang with people at war with each other - you ignored the warning when you connected to their gang , you got shot - next time - test the gang with a cheep ship... or don't trust people -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:21:00 - [3] Never got a warning, and besides if I left the gang then I shouldn't be a viable war target anymore??? _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:21:00 - [4] It is a know trick (it is not considered an exploit). The person asking you to form a gang with him is at war with the pirates or even one of the pirates is at war with the other. When you form the gang with him, he warp you and ask one or both of the warring pirates (his friends or alts) to join the gang. When you get at the destination you are then in a gang where one of the players is at war with another corporation. That make you a walid target for the pirate (note that instead you can't fire on the pirate untill he has fired against you). To depict how it work: Player A you (Ashspiess) Player B (supposed missionrunner) Player C (pirate 1) (at war with C) Player D (pirate 2) (at war with D) Starting gang: Player B ask Player B to help him in a mission and start a gang with Player A keeping the leader role, the warning that player A read say that no one is at war in the gang. Player B warp to ambush point and ask C e D to join the gang. Player A get no warning that wartargets are entering the gang. Gang get to the ambush point. As the gang contain members of corporations at war all the gang members are valid targets for the enemies of those corporations, but they can't open fire first, not warring players can fire only if fired upon. So player A is a valid target for C e D both and Concord will not help him. Possible defences: 1) when forming gangs with little know people always keep the control of the gang. If the other player ask to get the leadership role refuse. (naturally then the other player has the same problem you have) 2) as soon as other people enter the gang you should leave. Don't wait to check if they are pirates, first leave then check. 3) always use a disposable ship to help a unknown person.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Ashlspiess Never got a warning, and besides if I left the gang then I shouldn't be a viable war target anymore??? Probably to late, as soon as they aggressed you, you were a fair target, even if you left the gang.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:22:00 - [6] You got duped, next time read the warning before joining the gang. Also dont trust anyone further than you can throw them, which in most cases isnt that far
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Ashlspiess Never got a warning, and besides if I left the gang then I shouldn't be a viable war target anymore??? Either you turned it off the last time you got it or you just didn't pay attention and clicked it away. This is Eve. Trust has to be earned and the more trust required the longer it takes to earn it. A bit like skill training really -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:27:00 - [8] Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon. _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Blank Protection Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:29:00 - [9] Wasnt this been fixed in the latest patch? And beside that why did you indeed ignore the warning message? btw, dont trust anybody in this game only when you have RL friends you dealing with.
Dellirium Tremens	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:52:00 - [10] Someone wardecked joined the gang after you had been invited, that's why you didn't get a warning. Always insist on being the gang leader when helping strangers, always.
Fantasia Freelance	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:53:00 - [11] There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone". CCP should as much as possible remove the ability to exploit "Good Samaritans". See my in-game Contracts starting at 1 million like a full set of +3 Basic implants! WTB Scourge missiles and +3 Basic implants in hi sec.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:57:00 - [12] I never got warning message so quit sayin that! The two that killed me were in the same corp. The person that I was in gang with did not attack. This is still not making any sense, I am still suspecting bugs. And even furthermore to make matters worse, I do not have any kill rights against the other guy I did not fire upon. _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Riho Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:57:00 - [13] yeah... its a valid tactic and cant do nothing about it :( read the warning before joining gangs whit random ppl ---------------------------------- This is Me
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:58:00 - [14] Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09 Originally by: Fantasia Freelance There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone". Actually, that part is intentional in EVE...
facepalm johnson a sackful of sacrificial sacrifices	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Ashlspiess Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 12:27:53 Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon. Also, I have none of my warnings on ignore. The warning is part of the standard "join gang" dialog, fool. You were just blinded by the clicky-clicky-gimmie-lewts.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:59:00 - [16] Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 13:05:10 Originally by: Fantasia Freelance CCP should as much as possible remove the ability to exploit "Good Samaritans". _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:01:00 - [17] Originally by: CrayC Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09 Originally by: Fantasia Freelance There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone". Actually, that part is intentional in EVE... Yea, of course it's intentional, because like any company that makes MMORPGs, anything that can contribute to player loss and or non-progressive playtime is more money for them. Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:03:00 - [18] I'll give you some constructive response when you edit your previous post and delete some of those ^'s...
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Ashlspiess Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy You don't understand EvE. You're probably best leaving, no one will miss you.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:09:00 - [20] Yea, I guess I dont understand, I'm only carebaring and trying to help someone out and I suffer the loss. What an entertaining game! _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:09:00 - [21] Quote: EVE isn't designed to look like a cold, harsh and unforgiving place, it is designed to BE a cold, harsh and unforgiving place. Read, accept, comprehend. ---
Fujiko MaXjolt Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Ashlspiess Originally by: CrayC Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09 Originally by: Fantasia Freelance There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone". Actually, that part is intentional in EVE... Yea, of course it's intentional, because like any company that makes MMORPGs, anything that can contribute to player loss and or non-progressive playtime is more money for them. Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy Actually, non-consensual PvP is the cornerstone of EvE. I know, took me awhile to accept that, too - but it's the fun part and the part that'll keep you playing in the end Oh, and by PvP i mean not only pew-pew stuff...
Duuna Morhphite	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:10:00 - [23] Do you also follow a complete stranger in to a dark alley in the middle of the night to help him with his "flat tire". 1) Dont trust strangers. 2) Bring friends. _____________ The alt
Hornymatt	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:10:00 - [24] Originally by: facepalm johnson Originally by: Ashlspiess Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 12:27:53 Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon. Also, I have none of my warnings on ignore. The warning is part of the standard "join gang" dialog, fool. You were just blinded by the clicky-clicky-gimmie-lewts. Dellirium Tremens post would explain this. If the wardecked people didn't join until later then the initial "warning" would show that the player you're about to gang with is not involved in any war etc. and evertything is just spiffing The the lamers join after, if you're not gang leader, and fill their boots.
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Ashlspiess What an entertaining game! Having played 4+ years now, lost numerous ships, assets worth billions, a couple of clones, lots of implants and STILL paying for it... I'd say yes, it IS an entertaining game...
Fujiko MaXjolt Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:12:00 - [26] Edited by: Fujiko MaXjolt on 12/02/2008 13:13:29 Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Ashlspiess What an entertaining game! Having played 4+ years now, lost numerous ships, assets worth billions, a couple of clones, lots of implants and STILL paying for it... I'd say yes, it IS an entertaining game... Yes indeed Sir !
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Ashlspiess Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 12:27:53 Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon. Also, I have none of my warnings on ignore. You get a warning every time you join a gang unless you tick the "Don't show me this warning again" box. And you get a different warning when the gang you're joining is at war with anyone. So, you have either ticked that box or you've just got so used to hitting the "Yes" button when someone asks you to join a fleet that you don't even notice that it's a warning any more. ________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Ashlspiess I never got warning message so quit sayin that! The two that killed me were in the same corp. The person that I was in gang with did not attack. This is still not making any sense, I am still suspecting bugs. And even furthermore to make matters worse, I do not have any kill rights against the other guy I did not fire upon. When you join a gang you have a lenghty text saying essentially "no one is at war" or "someone is at war" in this gang. You dont have a text in red falshing letters saying "Warning, alert, alert, someone is at war in this gang". So you got your warning, but you don't read it accuately. You formed a gang with someone with a war declaration against anotehr corp, so you did become a fair target for the other corp. So they killed your ship perfectly whitin the war right they had. That will not give you any kill right. It is not a bug or an exploit. Read carefully how the war declaration and the gang work if you don't want to repeat the mistake.
gfldex Kabelkopp	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Ashlspiess I never got warning message so quit sayin that! Every time you join a gang eve shows you the folowing: Quote: No one in this fleet is in a corporation that is currently at war. However, be aware that if fellow fleet members' corporations go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first. Instead of asking where this warning we refer to is displayed, you insist there is none. Good players refrain wishful thinking. Anyway, as soon as there is somebody in a gang that got a war going you get a flagging towards the enemy of that corp. This flagging will last 15 minutes. It was different in the beginning of empire wardecs and ppl exploited it. CCP changed it to the way it is nowadays. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Tyr Zewa Caldari Tax Collectors	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:31:00 - [30] must suck if you're so **** at this game that the only thing your capable of is tricking carebears that can't fight back into traps like this. guess they're not man enough to do proper pvp.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:32:00 - [31] Welp, I guess thats it then. I was docked at station with mounds of windows open and must not have seen the warning when I clicked ok to join fleet. If I'm not banned from the game for what I said to the little kiddies in local, I'll have to be more cautious from now on _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Tyr Zewa must suck if you're so **** at this game that the only thing your capable of is tricking carebears that can't fight back into traps like this. guess they're not man enough to do proper pvp. Yea exactly, they are just a couple of kids that will get royally pwned in low sec so they have to use tricks like this on new players like me to actually do anything _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:36:00 - [33] Edited by: Avery Fatwallet on 12/02/2008 13:36:48 ok for the people that STILL havent got it: if you pull that trick off correctly, the victim will NOT get a "warring gang" warning. i dont want to sound like a carebear... but how are new supposed players supposed to find that out? eve has no FM for RTFM. the tuts are lacking when it comes to the twisted minds of us players. no really, all you toughtypes gotta accept that eve also has a pve content. while the mission pve content sucks ass, people STILL enjoy it and want to team up on it. this trick is one of the things that is VERY hard to learn about for new players. i really dont know why its not classed an exploit, since you clearly have to use the gamemechanix in a non intended way to pull it off. i think the "scam" is in fact cool and all, but try to see it from the other pov too.
Roy Gordon Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:43:00 - [34] Edited by: Roy Gordon on 12/02/2008 13:43:40 Good grief! I donÆt know how people can complain about this tactic. Eve is a game that not only allows you to do those things you could only ever dream about i.e. fly space craft, fight battles in space etc, but also enables you to do things that you can do in REAL LIFE. And in real life many, many people suffer exactly this type of thing. ItÆs the Eve version of being conned or even of being mugged. As those who know will tell you, only ever accept invites or invite, those you know and trust into a gang. Of course, you can turn the tables on the swineÆs by leaving the gang immediately on being fired upon, inviting a horde of your friends to join your new gang and then hoping your tank lasts long enough for your friends to arrive to turn them into scrap metal!!! That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Ashlspiess Yea exactly, they are just a couple of kids that will get royally pwned in low sec so they have to use tricks like this on new players like me to actually do anything Get over it, by throwing around names and having a little tantrum on the forums, you are the one coming across with the immature attitude. One post up, you say you hope you don't get banned for what you wrote in local, just calm down, it's a game, grow up a little.
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Ernesto Hoost Originally by: Ashlspiess Yea exactly, they are just a couple of kids that will get royally pwned in low sec so they have to use tricks like this on new players like me to actually do anything Get over it, by throwing around names and having a little tantrum on the forums, you are the one coming across with the immature attitude. One post up, you say you hope you don't get banned for what you wrote in local, just calm down, it's a game, grow up a little. Ssssh!! Don't make him stop. Having him rant and call them kiddies while acting like one himself is nothing less than sterling OMG!!! I lost my intarweb pixels!!! ---
gfldex Kabelkopp	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Ashlspiess Originally by: Tyr Zewa must suck if you're so **** at this game that the only thing your capable of is tricking carebears that can't fight back into traps like this. guess they're not man enough to do proper pvp. Yea exactly, they are just a couple of kids that will get royally pwned in low sec so they have to use tricks like this on new players like me to actually do anything And they are still able to beat you. How embarrassing must that be! -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
gfldex Kabelkopp	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet eve has no FM for RTFM. How about RTFF? Or maybe join a good corp where experience players answer the questions you should have asked? The EVE universe is called player driven for a reason. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Ashlspiess Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:34:00 - [39] Quote: And they are still able to beat you. How embarrassing must that be! Oh yes, totally embarassing you hit the nail on the head dood! Kids pvp fitted ganging up using jew tactics to kill a carebear, they are teh pwn! I'm holding my breath until someone agrees me! Waaaaaaaaaaaa _______________ It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird.
Kaeana	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:39:00 - [40] You DID get a warning. You pressed "Yes". If you didn't press "yes" then you didn't join the gang. You know that dialogue box that says "do you want to join this gang" ? That contains a warning.
Blank Protection Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:44:00 - [41] Originally by: Ashlspiess Quote: And they are still able to beat you. How embarrassing must that be! Oh yes, totally embarassing you hit the nail on the head dood! Kids pvp fitted ganging up using jew tactics to kill a carebear, they are teh pwn! I'm holding my breath until someone agrees me! Waaaaaaaaaaaa Buy yourself a new Raven boy
Daram Thakk'ar Minmatar 343rd Mining Division	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Ashlspiess Quote: And they are still able to beat you. How embarrassing must that be! Oh yes, totally embarassing you hit the nail on the head dood! Kids pvp fitted ganging up using jew tactics to kill a carebear, they are teh pwn! I'm holding my breath until someone agrees me! Waaaaaaaaaaaa Jew tactics? You're not only a whining kiddo, but an anti-semite aswell?
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.02.12 14:52:00 - [43] Edited by: Avery Fatwallet on 12/02/2008 14:52:03 nvm
Blank Protection Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.12 15:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Blank Protection Reply to moderated post removed - Navigator But but but what did i say wrong here???
ElweSingollo Starlancers	Posted - 2008.02.12 15:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet Edited by: Avery Fatwallet on 12/02/2008 13:36:48 if you pull that trick off correctly, the victim will NOT get a "warring gang" warning. THIS I had a corp mate a while back who was no noob and got into gang and there was no warning he petitioned and got his ship back because there had been no warning (oh and for those that cannot figure out how there can be no warning engage your brains and think creatively). If you ignore the warning and loose your ship well it sucks if you get no warning in the first place imho that should be classed and exploit. CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature *In Before I Get M* Again*
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.12 15:14:00 - [46] Originally by: Ashlspiess I never got warning message so quit sayin that! The two that killed me were in the same corp. The person that I was in gang with did not attack. This is still not making any sense, I am still suspecting bugs. And even furthermore to make matters worse, I do not have any kill rights against the other guy I did not fire upon. Then you have the warning switched off. Point of fact, the person you were in gang with did not have to attack. The attackers were at war with his corp. You joined his gang, which made you a viable war target. It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with you. This is an old trick called a "lofty" (after the guy who popularized it). It's the preferred method of getting Ravens as loot. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.02.12 15:15:00 - [47] Edited by: Avery Fatwallet on 12/02/2008 15:15:38 well...afaik, the "small print" of the normal "join gang" contains a "later on some people might join and they could be at war and you could be spanked without knowing" but YOU DO NOT GET "JOIN WARRING GANG?" ffs.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.12 15:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet Edited by: Avery Fatwallet on 12/02/2008 15:15:38 well...afaik, the "small print" of the normal "join gang" contains a "later on some people might join and they could be at war and you could be spanked without knowing" but YOU DO NOT GET "JOIN WARRING GANG?" ffs. There's the assumption that the typical player can read and comprehend simple English, and make some rudimentary extrapolations of potential disaster. Of course, for people who just came from WoW, this is an unreasonable expectation... ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Nyx Avatar	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:11:00 - [49] Moral of the story? Eve is NOT a nice place it is full of real life A holes who are encouraged and cheered on to be even worst A holes here by the Developers of the game.... It's really that simple.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:12:00 - [50] Originally by: Nyx Avatar Moral of the story? Eve is NOT a nice place it is full of real life A holes who are encouraged and cheered on to be even worst A holes here by the Developers of the game.... It's really that simple. No, it's not full of real life a-holes. It is, however, full of naive twits who can't tell friend from foe even with a computer generated warning in their face. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Nyx Avatar	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:16:00 - [51] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Nyx Avatar Moral of the story? Eve is NOT a nice place it is full of real life A holes who are encouraged and cheered on to be even worst A holes here by the Developers of the game.... It's really that simple. No, it's not full of real life a-holes. It is, however, full of naive twits who can't tell friend from foe even with a computer generated warning in their face. You my friend need to learn to read... for the billion fukn time there was no warning... And obviously you haven't been here that long, anyone whoes played eve for any period of time knows what I typed is 100% correct.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:20:00 - [52] Originally by: Nyx Avatar You my friend need to learn to read... for the billion fukn time there was no warning... And obviously you haven't been here that long, anyone whoes played eve for any period of time knows what I typed is 100% correct. There's no warning if you have the warning turned off. Otherwise, there's plenty of warning about joining a gang. Of course, if you're unable to comprehend simple English, the warning may not be enough, hence my suggestion that all warnings in Eve be changed to "WARNING! You are about to be wtfpwned. Press OK to continue with this action; press Cancel to abort." ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Nyx Avatar	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Nyx Avatar You my friend need to learn to read... for the billion fukn time there was no warning... And obviously you haven't been here that long, anyone whoes played eve for any period of time knows what I typed is 100% correct. There's no warning if you have the warning turned off. Otherwise, there's plenty of warning about joining a gang. Of course, if you're unable to comprehend simple English, the warning may not be enough, hence my suggestion that all warnings in Eve be changed to "WARNING! You are about to be wtfpwned. Press OK to continue with this action; press Cancel to abort." Again, learn to read... there is a way to go around the person getting the "waring your joining a warring gang" message. Which has been labeled NOT a exploit by CCP. Read before you respond ffs.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Nyx Avatar Again, learn to read... there is a way to go around the person getting the "waring your joining a warring gang" message. Which has been labeled NOT a exploit by CCP. Read before you respond ffs. You might read. When you join a gang (which he obviously did), you know that the people you join with could be members of a corp at war with someone else. Anyone stupid enough to do this with unknown people deserves to be wtfpwned on an hourly basis until all of their isk is gone. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Nyx Avatar	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:30:00 - [55] Edited by: Nyx Avatar on 12/02/2008 16:31:57 Edited by: Nyx Avatar on 12/02/2008 16:30:38 Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Nyx Avatar Again, learn to read... there is a way to go around the person getting the "waring your joining a warring gang" message. Which has been labeled NOT a exploit by CCP. Read before you respond ffs. You might read. When you join a gang (which he obviously did), you know that the people you join with could be members of a corp at war with someone else. Wow.. dude.. REAAAADDddddddDDDD..... when that is the case (and he didnt have warning messages turned off) you are SUPPOSE to get a warning message telling you of this.... ARE YOU NOT???.... SO if you get a gang invite and the warning message does NOT come up you should be able to say there are no warring parties in the gang. The guy didnt get the warring message because of (imho) a exploit, to circumvent the warning message.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Nyx Avatar SO if you get a gang invite and the warning message does NOT come up you should be able to say there are no warring parties in the gang. The guy didnt get the warring message because of (imho) a exploit, to circumvent the warning message. Nope, you're missing the point. You should know the game mechanics if you're going to play Eve. If you join a gang, you know the risks, especially if they are not from your corp. You could be wtfpwned. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:35:00 - [57] I guess everyone from WoW will want warnings for everything, as I stated in my other thread. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Nyx Avatar	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:36:00 - [58] Edited by: Nyx Avatar on 12/02/2008 16:36:16 Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Nyx Avatar SO if you get a gang invite and the warning message does NOT come up you should be able to say there are no warring parties in the gang. The guy didnt get the warring message because of (imho) a exploit, to circumvent the warning message. Nope, you're missing the point. You should know the game mechanics if you're going to play Eve. If you join a gang, you know the risks, especially if they are not from your corp. You could be wtfpwned. Oh, yea, thats right... I forgot, everyone who starts playing eve should know the game mechanics. Totally, every human being should know the mechanics of eve before they start playing it, and if they don't and get wtfpawn that must be user error. ^5
Hornymatt	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:43:00 - [59] There is a way 'round the warning. It's been deemed not an exploit. Sorry for your loss but just move on.
Zev'Nar Minmatar Carebear Salvagers Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:46:00 - [60] I amazes me how resourceful people are at screwing people over in this game. I've read about this before in the fourms, since most people don't follow the forums would have to learn about this the hard way. Having gotten frustrated, ****ed off, and even quit the game multiple times, I have really come to embrace some of the Golden Rules of EVE. 1. Trust no one. 2. Read the pop up messages before clicking OK. 3. Fly only what you can afford to loose. 4. EVE is about Risk Vs. Reward. Think about that with every action. 5. Trust no one. (EVE is full of really twisted people who want to very bad things to you.)
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:59:00 - [61] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 12/02/2008 16:59:53 Originally by: Ashlspiess Someone asked me to help them on a level 4 mission in .5 sec security space. I agreed to help, because I'm a nice guy and all. I tell him I'm ready and he warps us. I then end up out in the middle of nowhere, sitting in front of 2 pirates. I quickly leave the gang as I'm being targetted, next thing I know I am warp scrambled and my 350 mill Raven is destroyed. Where was Concord? Is this some kind of exploit? Is it really fair that I get my ship blown up in high security for offering to help someone out? Intended game mechanics, personally I think that you should get a warning when they add someone to the gang that can cause you to become a target, but oh well Next time you have a few choices: 1) Don't accept the invite. Hint this is choice #1 for a REASON. Do not, under any circumstances, do something that you did not initiate. It only leads to heart-ache... 2) Try to scam THEM. Accept the invite, warp to location. When your ship starts to slow down from the warp, leave fleet. If you time it right, you will still be blinky to them (especially if there are a bunch of cans from other ships around) due to desync lag but will NOT be a valid target according to the servers. Giggle maniacally while Concord deals with the issue then scoop the loot and run. Of course if you time it wrong you go "Pop!", but sometimes its worth the try Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Blank Protection Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:26:00 - [62] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Nyx Avatar You could be wtfpwned. Just like to now. What does "wtfpwned" stands for actually?
ChironV Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:02:00 - [63] If you stay within the game mechanics there is no accountabilty for your actions. Its interesting to watch people who would normally live within the law have their true natures be revealed when they are given the opportunity to be themselves with no accountabilty for their actions. Cheating, intimidation, extortion, ransom and outright murder for the fun of it. Don't have to worry about your actions because there are no consequenses. Eve, where the darkside of human psychology makes "woopie!" ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:24:00 - [64] Originally by: ChironV Cheating, intimidation, extortion, ransom and outright murder for the fun of it. Don't have to worry about your actions because there are no consequenses. Eve, where the darkside of human psychology makes "woopie!" Thats not limited to EVE btw. It's the ability to do things in a "game" that you can't do in real life that is the appeal of many successful games. Grand Theft Auto, ManHunt, Doom are all fairly violent, yet very popular.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:02:00 - [65] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet Edited by: Avery Fatwallet on 12/02/2008 13:36:48 ok for the people that STILL havent got it: if you pull that trick off correctly, the victim will NOT get a "warring gang" warning. i dont want to sound like a carebear... but how are new supposed players supposed to find that out? eve has no FM for RTFM. the tuts are lacking when it comes to the twisted minds of us players. no really, all you toughtypes gotta accept that eve also has a pve content. while the mission pve content sucks ass, people STILL enjoy it and want to team up on it. this trick is one of the things that is VERY hard to learn about for new players. i really dont know why its not classed an exploit, since you clearly have to use the gamemechanix in a non intended way to pull it off. i think the "scam" is in fact cool and all, but try to see it from the other pov too. Adding a warning on the tune of "The new player that has entered the gang has a war active" would be nice. About "where to learn that" on the new citizens forum it is explained fairly often and when forming a gang with some new player, after getting the boss role for my protection I explain to them why they should not give away the boss role. If someone read the warning when forming a gang it is evident that forming a gang with someone in a war is a bad idea. The trick of calling in gang a war target is harder to learn. But I have problem seeing how it can be explained to new players without long walls of text that most people will skim and not read really.
ChironV Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:02:00 - [66] Originally by: Ernesto Hoost Originally by: ChironV Cheating, intimidation, extortion, ransom and outright murder for the fun of it. Don't have to worry about your actions because there are no consequenses. Eve, where the darkside of human psychology makes "woopie!" Thats not limited to EVE btw. It's the ability to do things in a "game" that you can't do in real life that is the appeal of many successful games. Grand Theft Auto, ManHunt, Doom are all fairly violent, yet very popular. I agree, somewhat. Eve is not a violent game in the same genre as those you mentioned. Yes, you blow up someones ship but you dont see the blood and gore which are those games stock and trade. Also, getting "owned" in Eve like the OP is much more painful because unlike those games you mentioned, the OP may have to work for days or weeks to replace his loss. Eve lets people bring out their darkside and engage in behavior they wouldn't do in real life because there are consequenses. IE: Key some guys car in front of him because he ticked you off. Consequence... Getting punched or arrested. Pity that the guys who ganked the OP thought so little of their own skills that they had to come up with this elaborate con. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:40:00 - [67] Originally by: Blank Protection Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Nyx Avatar You could be wtfpwned. Just like to now. What does "wtfpwned" stands for actually? means: What The (a curse word starting with a "f" and also containing "k" "c" and a "u" in random order) Owned As in getting blown up in a big way.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:57:00 - [68] One of the best 'virtues' a successful EVE player can have is extreme paranoia with prejudice ;) Yes it is a harsh world, but that is exactly what makes it so attractive. Even for 'good guys' like me. In many other games you are just one among 1000s of paladins. In EVE, you are something special, especially in the PVP environment. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Viper G	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:01:00 - [69] Basically, don't ever form a gang with anyone ever, because they can invite someone right when you drop out of warp (or just moments before) And if your not fast enough to leave the gang or don't know to leave it, they can target you and start shooting. So in other words, don't ever help someone with missions. If you want team work join a corporation. Please refrain from discussions of real life politics in your signature. Navigator
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:20:00 - [70] Edited by: Ernesto Hoost on 12/02/2008 23:24:55 Originally by: ChironV Pity that the guys who ganked the OP thought so little of their own skills that they had to come up with this elaborate con. That's the beauty of EVE. You can use real life skills, such as social engineering and confidence tricking. I seriously doubt the guys that ganked the OP were noobs or kiddies. To pull of the scam requires organisation and team work. It also involves setting up a fake alt corp just to carry the war dec to make it happen. When people are more organized and ruthless than you, yes you will lose. Mission runners are not playing a different game to the rest of us, however they sometimes assume they are in their "safe" little missions. After being ganked like OP was, most people suddenly realise what the game is about, they take precautions or train up skills to be competitive...or they quit It's a pvp game..not a fatten my virtual wallet running mission game. Edit: yes the death penalty in EVE is severe, but that is what makes the pvp so attractive. Name another game that actually gets your adrenalin flowing. If the fleet battle lag was sorted, I would love this game
Vested Interest	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:12:00 - [71] Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there?
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Vested Interest Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there? So if 2 R/L friends that happen to be in corps at war withj each other want to gang up and run a mission, you are saying they shouldn't be able to gang up? EVE imposes few restrictions, there is no night elf to hold your hand in this game. Actions, and consequences. That is all
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:24:00 - [73] Originally by: Vested Interest Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there? And surely when a gang members corp gets dec'd you should be told of such actions right?
heheheh Red.	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:46:00 - [74] Quote: dont trust anyone further than you can throw them
Sandeep Raptus Regaliter Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.13 02:37:00 - [75] Originally by: Ashlspiess Someone asked me to help them on a level 4 mission in .5 sec security space. I agreed to help Next time, YOU form the gang and never give out any command position. Never accept invite from someone you don't know, especially from someone asking for help.
Richard Third	Posted - 2008.02.13 03:34:00 - [76] Edited by: Richard Third on 13/02/2008 03:35:59 this is a exploit. concord is supposed to help against grieving ganks not enable this kind of crap. Concord provides security. If people can just get around concord it defeats the idea of concord. Any argument on why this is allowable.... is too long and too unbelievable to be used. It's not about details. if a war target joins my gang.... I want out right away, I don't want to be griever bait whenever a war target joins my gang.... at least an e-mail from concord.... telling me whats up. even being kicked from the gang would be better than losing ships to this concord exploit. Usually I'm against overprotective game mechanics but this one has me on the side of safety. Corporation members get hours of notice if they become war targets... but if I'm in a gang with war targets...What do I get before the little voice says i'm warp scrammed?
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.02.13 03:41:00 - [77] Originally by: Ashlspiess Originally by: CrayC Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09 Originally by: Fantasia Freelance There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone". Actually, that part is intentional in EVE... Yea, of course it's intentional, because like any company that makes MMORPGs, anything that can contribute to player loss and or non-progressive playtime is more money for them. Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy eh? Eve was designed like that from the get go, years ago, long before they made the 'bigtime'. Eve's designed to be a griefing friendly place... it's not a carebear haven. Seriously. I'm a carebear, and I shoot first and ask questions only after I've got the pod scrambled. Even then, I'm watching 'local' to make sure his buddies aren't around to gank me. You got suckered. Always be leader of the gang, always assume someone is out to gank you unless you are POSITIVE they are not, and be ready to fight/run every time you undock. I don't think you 'get' Eve. Sorry. Originally by: Mangala Solaris EVE really doesnt have set goals, its a freeform sandbox - yes a sandbox with kids that occasionally take a dump in it, but a sandbox never the less.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2008.02.13 04:52:00 - [78] Originally by: Sekhmet Orion Originally by: Vested Interest Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there? So if 2 R/L friends that happen to be in corps at war withj each other want to gang up and run a mission, you are saying they shouldn't be able to gang up? EVE imposes few restrictions, there is no night elf to hold your hand in this game. Actions, and consequences. That is all That's exactly what I'm saying. It's completely nonsensical for 2 entities, who claim to be at war, to fleet up temporarily to run a nice happy hand-holding mission together. What kind of CEO would put up with corp members who do that? Oh I forgot, actually a lot of them. This is why it shouldn't even be an option to gang with someone you're at war with, without leaving your corp first. Don't feed me BS about night-elves and hand-holding and consequences for actions. You're talking about 2 parties at war with each other being allowed to set aside hostilities and carebear it up together without consequences whatsoever. It's another example of CCP not finishing something and then saying "oh this is by design b'cuz it's a harsh world amirite?"
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.13 05:34:00 - [79] Lessons learned from this incident, a) Don't trust anyone. b) No one is to be trusted c) Do not trust other players Just don't be a nice guy with strangers. _____________________________________ I pay beer for new sig. - Sorry for the trouble Mits.

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