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Ashlspiess
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:03:00 -
[1]
Someone asked me to help them on a level 4 mission in .5 sec security space. I agreed to help, because I'm a nice guy and all. I tell him I'm ready and he warps us. I then end up out in the middle of nowhere, sitting in front of 2 pirates. I quickly leave the gang as I'm being targetted, next thing I know I am warp scrambled and my 350 mill Raven is destroyed.
Where was Concord? Is this some kind of exploit? Is it really fair that I get my ship blown up in high security for offering to help someone out? 
_______________
It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird. |
RaTTuS
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:06:00 -
[2]
you joined a gang with people at war with each other - you ignored the warning when you connected to their gang , you got shot -
next time - test the gang with a cheep ship...
or don't trust people
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting
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Ashlspiess
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:21:00 -
[3]
Never got a warning, and besides if I left the gang then I shouldn't be a viable war target anymore???
_______________
It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:21:00 -
[4]
It is a know trick (it is not considered an exploit).
The person asking you to form a gang with him is at war with the pirates or even one of the pirates is at war with the other.
When you form the gang with him, he warp you and ask one or both of the warring pirates (his friends or alts) to join the gang.
When you get at the destination you are then in a gang where one of the players is at war with another corporation.
That make you a walid target for the pirate (note that instead you can't fire on the pirate untill he has fired against you).
To depict how it work:
Player A you (Ashspiess)
Player B (supposed missionrunner)
Player C (pirate 1) (at war with C)
Player D (pirate 2) (at war with D)
Starting gang:
Player B ask Player B to help him in a mission and start a gang with Player A keeping the leader role, the warning that player A read say that no one is at war in the gang.
Player B warp to ambush point and ask C e D to join the gang. Player A get no warning that wartargets are entering the gang.
Gang get to the ambush point. As the gang contain members of corporations at war all the gang members are valid targets for the enemies of those corporations, but they can't open fire first, not warring players can fire only if fired upon.
So player A is a valid target for C e D both and Concord will not help him.
Possible defences:
1) when forming gangs with little know people always keep the control of the gang. If the other player ask to get the leadership role refuse. (naturally then the other player has the same problem you have)
2) as soon as other people enter the gang you should leave. Don't wait to check if they are pirates, first leave then check.
3) always use a disposable ship to help a unknown person.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:22:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Ashlspiess
Never got a warning, and besides if I left the gang then I shouldn't be a viable war target anymore???
Probably to late, as soon as they aggressed you, you were a fair target, even if you left the gang.
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:22:00 -
[6]
You got duped, next time read the warning before joining the gang. Also dont trust anyone further than you can throw them, which in most cases isnt that far  |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Never got a warning, and besides if I left the gang then I shouldn't be a viable war target anymore???
Either you turned it off the last time you got it or you just didn't pay attention and clicked it away.
This is Eve. Trust has to be earned and the more trust required the longer it takes to earn it. A bit like skill training really 
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Ashlspiess
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:27:00 -
[8]
Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon.
_______________
It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird. |
Blank Protection
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:29:00 -
[9]
Wasnt this been fixed in the latest patch?
And beside that why did you indeed ignore the warning message?
btw, dont trust anybody in this game only when you have RL friends you dealing with.
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Dellirium Tremens
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:52:00 -
[10]
Someone wardecked joined the gang after you had been invited, that's why you didn't get a warning.
Always insist on being the gang leader when helping strangers, always.
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Fantasia Freelance
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:53:00 -
[11]
There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone". CCP should as much as possible remove the ability to exploit "Good Samaritans".
See my in-game Contracts starting at 1 million like a full set of +3 Basic implants!
WTB Scourge missiles and +3 Basic implants in hi sec. |
Ashlspiess
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:57:00 -
[12]
I never got warning message so quit sayin that! The two that killed me were in the same corp. The person that I was in gang with did not attack. This is still not making any sense, I am still suspecting bugs. And even furthermore to make matters worse, I do not have any kill rights against the other guy I did not fire upon. 
_______________
It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird. |
Riho
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:57:00 -
[13]
yeah... its a valid tactic and cant do nothing about it :(
read the warning before joining gangs whit random ppl
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This is Me |
CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09
Originally by: Fantasia Freelance
There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone".
Actually, that part is intentional in EVE...
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facepalm johnson
a sackful of sacrificial sacrifices
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 12:27:53
Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon.
Also, I have none of my warnings on ignore.
The warning is part of the standard "join gang" dialog, fool.
You were just blinded by the clicky-clicky-gimmie-lewts.
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Ashlspiess
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 13:05:10
Originally by: Fantasia Freelance
CCP should as much as possible remove the ability to exploit "Good Samaritans".
_______________
It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird. |
Ashlspiess
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CrayC
Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09
Originally by: Fantasia Freelance
There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone".
Actually, that part is intentional in EVE...
Yea, of course it's intentional, because like any company that makes MMORPGs, anything that can contribute to player loss and or non-progressive playtime is more money for them.
Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy
_______________
It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird. |
CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:03:00 -
[18]
I'll give you some constructive response when you edit your previous post and delete some of those ^'s...
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy
You don't understand EvE. You're probably best leaving, no one will miss you.
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Ashlspiess
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:09:00 -
[20]
Yea, I guess I dont understand, I'm only carebaring and trying to help someone out and I suffer the loss. What an entertaining game!
_______________
It takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to flip the bird. |
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Thuul'Khalat
Gallente
Phoenix Wing
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:09:00 -
[21]
Quote:
EVE isn't designed to look like a cold, harsh and unforgiving place, it is designed to BE a cold, harsh and unforgiving place.
Read, accept, comprehend.
---
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Fujiko MaXjolt
Caldari
Templar Republic
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Originally by: CrayC
Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09
Originally by: Fantasia Freelance
There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone".
Actually, that part is intentional in EVE...
Yea, of course it's intentional, because like any company that makes MMORPGs, anything that can contribute to player loss and or non-progressive playtime is more money for them.
Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy
Actually, non-consensual PvP is the cornerstone of EvE.
I know, took me awhile to accept that, too - but it's the fun part and the part that'll keep you playing in the end 
Oh, and by PvP i mean not only pew-pew stuff...
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Duuna Morhphite
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:10:00 -
[23]
Do you also follow a complete stranger in to a dark alley in the middle of the night to help him with his "flat tire".
1) Dont trust strangers.
2) Bring friends.
_____________
The alt |
Hornymatt
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: facepalm johnson
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 12:27:53
Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon.
Also, I have none of my warnings on ignore.
The warning is part of the standard "join gang" dialog, fool.
You were just blinded by the clicky-clicky-gimmie-lewts.
Dellirium Tremens post would explain this. If the wardecked people didn't join until later then the initial "warning" would show that the player you're about to gang with is not involved in any war etc. and evertything is just spiffing
The the lamers join after, if you're not gang leader, and fill their boots.
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CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
What an entertaining game!
Having played 4+ years now, lost numerous ships, assets worth billions, a couple of clones, lots of implants and STILL paying for it... I'd say yes, it IS an entertaining game...
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Fujiko MaXjolt
Caldari
Templar Republic
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:12:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Fujiko MaXjolt on 12/02/2008 13:13:29
Originally by: CrayC
Originally by: Ashlspiess
What an entertaining game!
Having played 4+ years now, lost numerous ships, assets worth billions, a couple of clones, lots of implants and STILL paying for it... I'd say yes, it IS an entertaining game...
Yes indeed Sir !
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Edited by: Ashlspiess on 12/02/2008 12:27:53
Like I said never got a warning, and I left the gang before I was fired upon.
Also, I have none of my warnings on ignore.
You get a warning every time you join a gang unless you tick the "Don't show me this warning again" box. And you get a different warning when the gang you're joining is at war with anyone.
So, you have either ticked that box or you've just got so used to hitting the "Yes" button when someone asks you to join a fleet that you don't even notice that it's a warning any more.
________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka
What the skull-chick said.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
I never got warning message so quit sayin that! The two that killed me were in the same corp. The person that I was in gang with did not attack. This is still not making any sense, I am still suspecting bugs. And even furthermore to make matters worse, I do not have any kill rights against the other guy I did not fire upon.
When you join a gang you have a lenghty text saying essentially "no one is at war" or "someone is at war" in this gang.
You dont have a text in red falshing letters saying "Warning, alert, alert, someone is at war in this gang".
So you got your warning, but you don't read it accuately.
You formed a gang with someone with a war declaration against anotehr corp, so you did become a fair target for the other corp.
So they killed your ship perfectly whitin the war right they had.
That will not give you any kill right.
It is not a bug or an exploit.
Read carefully how the war declaration and the gang work if you don't want to repeat the mistake.
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gfldex
Kabelkopp
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
I never got warning message so quit sayin that!
Every time you join a gang eve shows you the folowing:
Quote:
No one in this fleet is in a corporation that is currently at war. However, be aware that if fellow fleet members' corporations go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
Instead of asking where this warning we refer to is displayed, you insist there is none. Good players refrain wishful thinking.
Anyway, as soon as there is somebody in a gang that got a war going you get a flagging towards the enemy of that corp. This flagging will last 15 minutes. It was different in the beginning of empire wardecs and ppl exploited it. CCP changed it to the way it is nowadays.
--
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Tyr Zewa
Caldari
Tax Collectors
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:31:00 -
[30]
must suck if you're so **** at this game that the only thing your capable of is tricking carebears that can't fight back into traps like this.
guess they're not man enough to do proper pvp.
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