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Boneyard
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Posted - 2004.03.31 05:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Boneyard on 31/03/2004 06:05:03 Still new to EVE and had something happen to me tonight. A fellow Corp member and I went mining in a .5 system. He in an Indy and myself in a frigate. Between pirate spawns we had a good mining system going he would mine non stop while I would mine and jettison for him to pick up. Another Indy pulled up...locked onto me and sat without mining. I noticed my ores were beginning to disappear and when questioned about it his reply was that he was automining. Is there such an option or was this a flat out thief stealing ore?
Edit---I meant to say Area mining
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Bogenhagen
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Posted - 2004.03.31 05:31:00 -
[2]
That is what is known as an ore theif. Only way to combat it is grab a secure container that both you and your indy friend know the password to. Ore thieves are the lowest scum in EVE, hated by all...
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Boneyard
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Posted - 2004.03.31 06:07:00 -
[3]
Well yes...confirmed or theif and kill loot thief. He got lucky and found a couple of new players who didnt know what was going on. To compound matters the player I was with wasnt familiar with the rules of engagement and lost his ship when we found out what he was up to. He lost a lot of gear. Live learn and never forget.
Oh and since this player was a thief its only fitting to name him. Keep an eye out for Segnitude. Safe travels.
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Bogenhagen
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Posted - 2004.03.31 06:57:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Bogenhagen on 31/03/2004 06:59:09 Sadly they get pleasure from seeing newbies trying to shoot them in high sec and watching Concord proceed to shred the noob. It can be expected with the influx of new players though
*Name noted*
If I see him below .5, I'll extract some revenge
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Adriana
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Posted - 2004.03.31 08:02:00 -
[5]
Heh, you won't see him below .5
They wouldn't dream of trying that crap below .5 or people might make them go boom.
I disagree on the worst scum in Eve though. I'd have to go with corp thieves on that one. I'd rate ore thieves just below griefers though. Name noted for future reference though.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte |
Rodge
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Posted - 2004.03.31 08:59:00 -
[6]
As I understand, there'll be something put into Shiva that'll help stop this. If you take from someone else's can, you'll get a temporary enemy flag set so you can fire on the thief.
Until then, the thieves will get away with it and there's nothing anyone can really do about it.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Kissinger
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Posted - 2004.03.31 09:18:00 -
[7]
It would be interesting if something is introduced in Shiva to combat ore theft. Up until now, CCP seem to be coming from the viewpoint that ore thieves are part of the complexities of the game and it is up to players to find a way to deal with it. To a degree I can see their point, and it probably prevents space being cluttered with loads of non-secure cans (though ultimately they go bang anyway....unlike the secure containers.....) On the other hand, it is tough enough for the noobs to make isk as it is without more experienced players exploiting the fact that they can freely steal ore and yet still enjoy the protection of Concord.
To flag them temporarily as 'enemy' (as mentioned above) and allowing the miner to extract revenge without penalty (and ideally the miner's Corp too...only so much revenge you can extract if you're hauling with your Indy!) might be the ideal solution???
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Bilb
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Posted - 2004.03.31 10:50:00 -
[8]
i thought CCP's view was that ur not meant to mine into a can?
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ZelRox
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Posted - 2004.03.31 11:17:00 -
[9]
Im guessin beeing new and all this this isnt a viable option. I just keep a kestrel around, 4 launchers , 4 different types of cruise missiles. Total cost about 200k. *Boom* ore thief looses his ship :) ----------------------
I wanna tuc tuc .. |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.03.31 11:45:00 -
[10]
Quote: Im guessin beeing new and all this this isnt a viable option. I just keep a kestrel around, 4 launchers , 4 different types of cruise missiles. Total cost about 200k. *Boom* ore thief looses his ship :)
Actually this is very viable. Just watch out you dont get your security status too low or youll be instakill in all secure space.
Using an alt trained just enough top use a kestrel with 4 cruise missile launchers is the usual way. Keep it in a system near to your mining op and do a quick switch as soon as you see the thief coming in. Of course the Kestrel will be lost, otherwise you would be exploiting
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Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.03.31 11:46:00 -
[11]
Quote: Im guessin beeing new and all this this isnt a viable option. I just keep a kestrel around, 4 launchers , 4 different types of cruise missiles. Total cost about 200k. *Boom* ore thief looses his ship :)
Actually this is very viable. Just watch out you dont get your security status too low or youll be instakill in all secure space.
Using an alt trained just enough top use a kestrel with 4 cruise missile launchers is the usual way. Keep it in a system near to your mining op and do a quick switch as soon as you see the thief coming in. Of course the Kestrel will be lost, otherwise you would be exploiting
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Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.03.31 11:46:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 31/03/2004 11:46:55 double whammy...oops _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
Rodge
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Posted - 2004.03.31 12:15:00 -
[13]
Unfortunately, the profits available to such a practice are quite lucrative. When I mine, I use a Moa with 3 miner 2s and harvester drones. So in about 40 minutes, I have enough to fill a badger II (about 9919m3) with kernite which would sell for about 700K unprocessed.
A badger II goes for about 650K, so the ore thief only needs to make one run succeed and he's covered his outlay. Not counting the podding, of course. And, of course, new players won't know to have an alt handy just in case. I certainly wouldn't, as it is an exploit of sorts.
As for mining in a jet can not being what CCP intended, it's got to the bit where it's pretty tough to mine any other way. Especially if the roids are spread out, as you don't want to have to get an indy to move a secure can for you every time you move to a new roid.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Boneyard
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Posted - 2004.03.31 17:27:00 -
[14]
Thank you all for the input, we will be using a secure can from now on even tho its a bit more work to position.
On a side note is it common practice for people to steal the loot from your kills in EVE? Had another player who was MWD equipped rip my kill cans last night, was just wondering if it was a common occurence.
Not a good experience last night with EVE to say the least
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Cristobal
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Posted - 2004.03.31 18:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cristobal on 31/03/2004 19:01:50 Boneyard, it is a shame that we all have to endure the likes of thieves. It is one thing to have a pirate encounter, they do have a place in EVE, however, those that wander the secure areas of EVE stealing from unsuspecting new players are the lowest that we have in EVE. I agree, there should be some sort of consequence for dishonest actions in secure space. Now below 0.5 secure space, well there you are on your own. New players that are faced with the sort of activities being used by these low life trolls may not ever complete their trial period, and we lose another member of the EVE community. Not only is it dirty game playing but it is not good for attracting new players. -- C r i s t o b a l --
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Jerno
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Posted - 2004.03.31 22:37:00 -
[16]
Ok let em get this staight, someone can steal my ore without me knowing it? I thought that when I mined it went into my cargo hold. Does this only happen if I jetison the cargo? Yes I am a noob and dont know head from a hole in the ground right now. ;-)I just want to understand so I can avoid this in the future. Thanks
------------------------------------------------ Slip me decaf and I'll rip your head off!
It's all fun and games until someone loses and eye then its just one eyed fun. |
Senthra Korima
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Posted - 2004.03.31 23:07:00 -
[17]
Mining does place ore into your cargo hold.
If you choose to place that ore in an un-secure can, that is your choice and anyone can walk by and take it.
So either mine to a secure can, or do not complain when someone takes your ore.
All in all, a very simple system.
[Now salvage cans I belive should have a couple minute timer, so that only someone that has done hull damage to the target can open them]
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Seradhin
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Posted - 2004.03.31 23:09:00 -
[18]
Quote: Ok let em get this staight, someone can steal my ore without me knowing it? I thought that when I mined it went into my cargo hold. Does this only happen if I jetison the cargo? Yes I am a noob and dont know head from a hole in the ground right now. ;-)I just want to understand so I can avoid this in the future. Thanks
When mining to your cargohold you cannot suffer from what is being discussed here.
The problem in this thread is about can mining, where a miner jettisons some ore making it appear in a can, due to the game mechanics the can it appears in has 27500m3 volume and thus can then be filled with a lot more ore. Then they or a friend can come by with a large industrial and pick it up from the can, this makes mining more efficient.
However anyone else can also come along and remove the ore from this can and this is what is being discussed here. This doesn't affect you when mining to cargohold or if you use anchored secure cans.
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Jerno
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Posted - 2004.03.31 23:31:00 -
[19]
Ok, now I understand. Thanks for the clarification! ------------------------------------------------ Slip me decaf and I'll rip your head off!
It's all fun and games until someone loses and eye then its just one eyed fun. |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.01 01:11:00 -
[20]
There are other possibilities you can try. If the thief knows his stuff none of this will work but it is worth a try.
1) Target lock him. Don't fire but sometimes it will spook him to go away or attack first (a mate of mine did this and the thief attacked him first...CONCORD wasted the guy...then he came out to collect from his can dropped from his ship and CONCORD wasted him again). Long shot but why not? Just be careful you don't fire or engage any mods against him or CONCORD will be coming for you.
2) Ram him when you see him approaching your can. The further away from your can the better. You're in a frigate and can cath him easily. When two ships collide they slow almost to a stop. Have your frigate hug his ship as much as possible so he creeps along at 10 m/s. Make his ship wobble in its attempt to break away from the contact. Basically be as much of a nuisance as you can. If a hauler by itself is making a beeline to your can and there are no other cans nearby that can be his go for this. While you do this have your buddy go back for a hauler to scoop the ore. Even if the guy is persistant (you can't stop his approach entirely...just slow him way down) you'll at least save some of your ore.
3) A combo of #1 & 2. Slow him down, send your buddy to get his hauler and call for a nearby friend (corp mate or something) to come by in a Kestrel if you can. Have the Kestrel target lock the guy and you get "out of the way". DO NOT fire unless the guy in the Kestrel is willing to take the sec hit and lose his ship. Nevertheless ore thieves know a Kestrel like this is usually bad news and you might spook him into running.
If the thief is a cool customer none of the above will work but at least you're giving him a hard time. Next time he ignores a Kestrel he may be wrong and floating in a pod.
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Boneyard
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Posted - 2004.04.01 05:04:00 -
[21]
I keep seeing the Kestrel option so I wanna get this straight. A cruise missle equipped Kestrel can knock out an Indy with one volley from its 4 launchers?
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Bogenhagen
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Posted - 2004.04.01 05:30:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Bogenhagen on 01/04/2004 05:31:17 4 cruise missiles should waste an Indy and also the pod in some cases (apparently splash damage is still effecting the pod). But just remember, the Kestrel is doomed in this tactic, so you lose ~250k and each cruise missile is ~5-7k each. Also the pilot will take security hits (heavy if the pod goes pop...at least to I think you take a larger hit for podding someone in empire).
Oh, and training to use cruise missiles takes a while (2 weeks at the very least). And as always keep you clone up-to-date, I hear CONCORD likes to pod offenders now. Almost forgot...make sure to insure the Kestrel
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.01 06:33:00 -
[23]
Quote: I keep seeing the Kestrel option so I wanna get this straight. A cruise missle equipped Kestrel can knock out an Indy with one volley from its 4 launchers?
Nope...takes two volleys in most cases I can think of but the Kestrel has a decent chance at getting another volley off before CONCORD wastes it.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.01 06:50:00 -
[24]
Quote: Edited by: Bogenhagen on 01/04/2004 05:31:17 4 cruise missiles should waste an Indy and also the pod in some cases (apparently splash damage is still effecting the pod).
You sure about that? I thought torps only had splash now and Kestrels can't carry torps.
As for a single volley of cruise I suppose it might depend on the hauler but the math seems to indicate it won't work in one volley.
Assume 300 points damage per missile (figuring an ALT and not max trained missile user): 1 EM cruise (Paradise) 1 Thermal (Cataclysm) 2 Explosive cruise (Devastator)
Say he has a Badger Mk-II (one of the tougher haulers but common). 350 Shield 650 Armor 650 Structure
Missile 1: 50 shield left Missile 2: 0 Shield, 494 Armor Missile 3: 271 Armor Missile 4: 0 Armor, 648 Structure
That takes into account resistances but assumes he is not running any hardeners or other mods that debuff damage.
NOTE: Math isn't my thing but I think that is close.
Even not taking resistances into account 4 cruise do 1200 damage vs. 1650 total points on the hauler...even with max skill in cruise missiles and no resistance issues it is 1500 vs. 1650...still need at least one more missile to finish the job in the best case scenario.
Of course this is for a Badger-II and lesser haulers may well pop in a single volley. I'll leave it to others to do the math on those however.
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Bogenhagen
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Posted - 2004.04.01 07:16:00 -
[25]
You may be right...it may take more than the first volly. But there are reports that cruise missiles are killing the pod instantly after a ships destruction, whether from splash or something else I'm not sure.
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Qahan Varasal
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Posted - 2004.04.01 12:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Qahan Varasal on 01/04/2004 12:37:23
Quote: Rodge said: Unfortunately, the profits available to such a practice are quite lucrative. When I mine, I use a Moa with 3 miner 2s and harvester drones. So in about 40 minutes, I have enough to fill a badger II (about 9919m3) with kernite which would sell for about 700K unprocessed.
A badger II goes for about 650K, so the ore thief only needs to make one run succeed and he's covered his outlay. Not counting the podding, of course. And, of course, new players won't know to have an alt handy just in case. I certainly wouldn't, as it is an exploit of sorts.
As for mining in a jet can not being what CCP intended, it's got to the bit where it's pretty tough to mine any other way. Especially if the roids are spread out, as you don't want to have to get an indy to move a secure can for you every time you move to a new roid.
I think that's exactly what CCP intended: to give you the choice. With a set-up like yours, there's no reason for you not to be mining into a secure can, other than to save yourself the outlay on the can and anchoring skill (probably trivial money to you), and a fair amount of inconvenience in moving and anchoring secure cans. It strikes me that non-secure can-miners are looking for an easy ride, wanting the convenience of jettisoning cans anywhere and not having to shuttle to and fro the station. That's fine as long as they accept the high risks that go with it. Mining like this should be risky, that's why CCP have made choices available. Noobies may be losing their ore, but to be honest I don't think they should be encouraged to mine this way anyway at low levels. Take the stuff back to the station when your hold is full (Probes have large enough bellies), or if you don't, don't gripe about it when you lose it.
I don't condone what ore-thieves do, and agree that they have it far too easy, with no apparent consequences for their actions. The enemy-flag idea sounds good, possibly backed up with them having the right to return fire withdrawn. As far as I'm concerned, though, non-secure miners have no grounds for whining as much as they do. They've made the gamble, and sometimes Lady Luck collects.
"You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." |
Rodge
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Posted - 2004.04.01 12:59:00 -
[27]
Quote: With a set-up like yours, there's no reason for you not to be mining into a secure can, other than to save yourself the outlay on the can and anchoring skill (probably trivial money to you), and a fair amount of inconvenience in moving and anchoring secure cans.
Yeah, the cash is no biggie. It is the inconvenience using them though. And time is money I do actually use giant secure cans, but only inside my indys. (Bit of a tip there for newer players, secure cargo cans take up 3000m3 of space, but hold 3900m3!!! I carry 3 of these in my indy, thus increasing it's carrying space by 2700m3)
Quote: The enemy-flag idea sounds good, possibly backed up with them having the right to return fire withdrawn. As far as I'm concerned, though, non-secure miners have no grounds for whining as much as they do. They've made the gamble, and sometimes Lady Luck collects.
I've never had ore thieves bother me personally. But if it did happen, I know I'd be really annoyed. When I mine, I have 1 250mm gun and 2 heavy launchers. I really don't mind if someone wants to try and steal from me, I just would like the opportunity to defend what's mine if it did happen. I'm sure when it does happen, I'll be on *****ing and complaining about it though
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Nanya
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Posted - 2004.05.01 15:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Qahan Varasal Edited by: Qahan Varasal on 01/04/2004 12:37:23 there's no reason for you not to be mining into a secure can
But there is a reason... You cannot use secure cans in high-sec now...
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Mogster
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Posted - 2004.05.01 19:53:00 -
[29]
You can use them, you just can't anchor them. So you'll have to pick them up again before they go boom.
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Beisser
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Posted - 2004.05.01 22:56:00 -
[30]
and what stops the ore-thief from taking your secure-can? he can scoop it in go to a station and repackage it and whoops he has all the ore.. -----------------------------------------------
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