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TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:11:00 - [1] Linkage so is this how we are treated these days. What happend to the idea of a free and prosperous society? curfews for 16's and under have existed in many parts of the country already. Despite most teenagers being law-abiding citizens (ie me) and young crime is no higher than any other age group. why couldn't they have simply developed a device which is also applicable to the midelage? In order to balance this I think we need to release a flamethrower that only targets old people as it clings on to their white hair and will thus disburse those crowds of daily Mail readers.
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:11:00 - [2] Linkage so is this how we are treated these days. What happend to the idea of a free and prosperous society? curfews for 16's and under have existed in many parts of the country already. Despite most teenagers being law-abiding citizens (ie me) and young crime is no higher than any other age group. why couldn't they have simply developed a device which is also applicable to the midelage? In order to balance this I think we need to release a flamethrower that only targets old people as it clings on to their white hair and will thus disburse those crowds of daily Mail readers.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:14:00 - [3] WTF! ---------------- Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:14:00 - [4] WTF! ---------------- Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!)
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:16:00 - [5] oh thats messed up
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:16:00 - [6] oh thats messed up
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:18:00 - [7] Edited by: Xen Gin on 12/02/2008 16:18:23 Too bad the device works. In Llanrumney they reduced robberies and vandalism by 90% outside of the local shops, and now the local residents aren't afraid to go into the shops, because there aren't any gangs around. I might add, I can still here the sound and I'm 23, and it doesn't bother me.
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:18:00 - [8] Edited by: Xen Gin on 12/02/2008 16:18:23 Too bad the device works. In Llanrumney they reduced robberies and vandalism by 90% outside of the local shops, and now the local residents aren't afraid to go into the shops, because there aren't any gangs around. I might add, I can still here the sound and I'm 23, and it doesn't bother me.
Riethe Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:19:00 - [9] Yep, I agree. There's definitely not any evidence showing that violent crimes are committed primarily by teenagers. Good job doing your research. Some teenagers just don't get it. (ie you) Now be on your best behavior or I might have to zap you.
Riethe Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:19:00 - [10] Yep, I agree. There's definitely not any evidence showing that violent crimes are committed primarily by teenagers. Good job doing your research. Some teenagers just don't get it. (ie you) Now be on your best behavior or I might have to zap you.
Elliot Reid Sarah Chalke Fan Club	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:21:00 - [11] Hard work. Thats the best anti teenager weapon you lazy gits. Remember, mum & dad are not always going to be there to do everything for you
Elliot Reid Sarah Chalke Fan Club	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:21:00 - [12] Hard work. Thats the best anti teenager weapon you lazy gits. Remember, mum & dad are not always going to be there to do everything for you
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:26:00 - [13] Somebody help me here. It's a device created to break up groups and battle anti-socialism? Maybe I'm interpreting that wrong. In any case, it sounds incredibly stupid. Is it attached to a person or place outside of buildings like a bugzapper? Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:26:00 - [14] Somebody help me here. It's a device created to break up groups and battle anti-socialism? Maybe I'm interpreting that wrong. In any case, it sounds incredibly stupid. Is it attached to a person or place outside of buildings like a bugzapper? Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Somebody help me here. It's a device created to break up groups and battle anti-socialism? Maybe I'm interpreting that wrong. In any case, it sounds incredibly stupid. Is it attached to a person or place outside of buildings like a bugzapper? It is speakers placed around in shoppingmalls at places the kids are gathering... usually as it sends out sounds we elders don't hear (to be honest I have heard those sounds)it only bothers youngsters... I know here in Norway it was popular as a sound for SMS so that the teachers did not hear when the kids get a new SMS or something like that. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Xen Gin Too bad the device works. In Llanrumney they reduced robberies and vandalism by 90% outside of the local shops, and now the local residents aren't afraid to go into the shops, because there aren't any gangs around. I don't think it's functionality is the point up for debate here - obviously if you create a device that shoots anyone that gets within ten feet of your store, you aren't going to have any crime. What's I have a problem with is that they're using a device against a particular demographic that does not discriminate between those with good intentions and those with bad intentions. While a majority of crimes may be committed by teenagers, it's not fair to the vast majority of teenagers who are minding their own business, and I don't think it should be legal in any public place. Think of it this way - what public opinion would this device garner if it emitted a frequency that only blacks could hear? ---------------- Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!)
Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:33:00 - [17] Add a gattling gun to it then ill be happy!!
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Elliot Reid Hard work. Thats the best anti teenager weapon you lazy gits. Remember, mum & dad are not always going to be there to do everything for you dude some of us have already left home thank you!
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:34:00 - [19] It hurts like hell. For just the fun of it I go into the shops that have it on purpose, when the owners are perlexed I cam in because of the sound.... I say what sound? 2 of the shops on my high street have since ditched it's useage Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Elliot Reid Sarah Chalke Fan Club	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:35:00 - [20] Originally by: TimGascoigne Originally by: Elliot Reid Hard work. Thats the best anti teenager weapon you lazy gits. Remember, mum & dad are not always going to be there to do everything for you dude some of us have already left home thank you! You should pop back and pick up your sense of humour.
Irish Whiskey Caldari Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Tarminic Think of it this way - what public opinion would this device garner if it emitted a frequency that only blacks could hear? what if...
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:38:00 - [22] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 16:40:31 Awesome. Where can I buy one? Could I restrict it to teenagers wearing hoodies and kappa tracksuits? edit Oh and ***** emos. EVE RELATED CONTENT**
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:39:00 - [23] Edited by: Xen Gin on 12/02/2008 16:39:03 Originally by: Kirjava It hurts like hell. For just the fun of it I go into the shops that have it on purpose, when the owners are perlexed I cam in because of the sound.... I say what sound? 2 of the shops on my high street have since ditched it's useage No it doesn't, Its an annoyance. It doesn't hurt. It's there to stop teens hanging out around shops. Also, a nice little weapon for those who put Gas containers in cars and set them alight. Because they look like a person in the car, firefighters have to check it out and are put at risk, would be great.
Lui Kai Phoenix Aeronautics	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:39:00 - [24] I so want one. ----------------
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:40:00 - [25] I have a few ear problems - must just be me then but I allways avoid noise to begin with. This is a reason I don't use headphones aswell Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:42:00 - [26] Originally by: Kirjava I have a few ear problems - must just be me then but I allways avoid noise to begin with. This is a reason I don't use headphones aswell Yeah, you probably need to get that seen too.
Battleclash	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:53:00 - [27] Quote: Unfortunately, this does not effect every teenager as the Deaf man clan chavs have continued to thrive in the same locations..... Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Crimsonjade Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:55:00 - [28] sheesh the Uk is so far behind. cattleprods work way faster and can be used on specific annoying teenagers
Frezik Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:05:00 - [29] I'm 25 but have an exceptional hearing range for my age (something above 19 kHz). CRT TVs left on but to a blank channel really bug me (the transformer puts out a faint buzz around 15 kHz that most people can't hear). I don't think they use these devices in my area, but I'm sure I'd be very annoyed if they did.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Frezik I'm 25 but have an exceptional hearing range for my age (something above 19 kHz). CRT TVs left on but to a blank channel really bug me (the transformer puts out a faint buzz around 15 kHz that most people can't hear). I don't think they use these devices in my area, but I'm sure I'd be very annoyed if they did. QFT, i'm 27 myself, but i know what you mean. I'm so glad i haven't encountered these yet. (i'm in the Netherlands, so they probably dont know they exist here )
Roxanna Kell FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:22:00 - [31] Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 12/02/2008 17:22:48 EVIL, No wounder i have been hearing some weird buzzing noises from time to time. Sons of a B****s, iam gonna sue. Linkage related article.
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:27:00 - [32] Went into town today and I wondered why my ears just kept ringing
Weebear Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:32:00 - [33] Yeah, these noise machines aren't the answer... the lot of you should be in National Service at that age anyway :p
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:46:00 - [34] ok... im 28. last time i went out shopping for games, i gave "Skate" on the ps3 in the store a try. i dont own a console, i dont plan to buy one, but i wanted to have a look at skate. so i played for about 5 minutes or so, and then this young boy shows up, watches me getting hang of the controls and he challenged me to a lil game. anyway, soon after he started to complain about a very high pitched noise i couldnt hear, for the life of me...
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:11:00 - [35] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 18:11:06 Measures to stop revolting chavs congregating outside offlicenses and newsagents are not "persecution". Sterilising them would be persecution. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Marisal tbh they should conscript any youth into the military if they repeat offend and bring back corporal punishment in schools, one of the biggest reasons kids run rampant these days is because there's no discipline in schools because teachers are so afraid of the kids Great idea! Take kids that commit crimes and give them years of professional training in military tactics! I SEE NO WAY THIS COULD BACKFIRE! ---------------- Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!)
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Marisal tbh they should conscript any youth into the military if they repeat offend and bring back corporal punishment in schools, one of the biggest reasons kids run rampant these days is because there's no discipline in schools because teachers are so afraid of the kids Great idea! Take kids that commit crimes and give them years of professional training in military tactics! I SEE NO WAY THIS COULD BACKFIRE! It also shows them the brutality of the world, a sense of order and discipline that cannot be provided in urban Britain. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Frezik Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Marisal tbh they should conscript any youth into the military if they repeat offend and bring back corporal punishment in schools, one of the biggest reasons kids run rampant these days is because there's no discipline in schools because teachers are so afraid of the kids Great idea! Take kids that commit crimes and give them years of professional training in military tactics! I SEE NO WAY THIS COULD BACKFIRE! Military training is necessarily harsh. The effects on a person are usually a net-positive, despite the goals of any military organization as a whole.
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:49:00 - [39] Quote: Sir Al Aynsley-Green, children's commissioner for England, said he had spoken to many young people who had been "deeply affected" by the deterrents. At least we know it works on the emo remnants. I'm for this device 100%!
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:11:00 - [40] I was actually laughing about this when I first read it this morning, human rights is just about the excuse everyone uses to complain about this/that/politicans. As a white British, male, working class, 18 year old I say down with the human rights act, down with chavs, and while we're at it someone shoot Brown. Back to this 'mosquito' device, never encountered it myself so I can't comment on its use, but if it doesn't discriminate between the lawful (minority unfortunatly) and unlawful (majority) then all I can say is scrap it unles its only turned on when required. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Kirjava Yes, Britain is a disgrace in that respect, we should have mandatory military service to put the chavs world view into perspective. you're probably right. I personally have absolutely no objection to national service And wonder why it was stopped in the first place. However I think that the key problem is that it says something very profound to the young. "We don't give a rat's ass about how you feel and what you think, so he is some annoying noise to make you **** off because you are an unsightly the scene." ...........catching up my drift. This is kind of why I'm annoyed about it even though I haven't come across one of these devices. It's not the noise, it's the insult. Like what if young people were putting up speakers in public playing loud death metal music for the purpose of getting rid of old people as they find this intolerable (and so do I lol). You can bet your lucky stars that the police would be there to bring an end to things in 10 minutes and prosecutions would be on the way. Well this is more words than I normally post but I think you get the idea
Orgos Khenn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:16:00 - [42] The people that came up with this have clearly not thought it through. Chavs are well known for constantly listening to dodgy drum and bass, gabber and rap on their very, very loud mobile phones; a sound that will probably drown out the chav-whiner device, and will just make them turn their **** up louder. Way to go. Now I get to listen to Fiddy Shiddy at top volume when I walk down the street. ---- One day...one day General will be worth reading.
JayCheG Imperium Forces	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:24:00 - [43] Wow and I thought the U.S. with the Patriot and all was the great police state. Thats just plain evil... I'm talking with Kael to get one put in our corp chat Tim :p
Magorath KR0M	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:26:00 - [44] Edited by: Magorath on 12/02/2008 19:26:19 Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Marisal tbh they should conscript any youth into the military if they repeat offend and bring back corporal punishment in schools, one of the biggest reasons kids run rampant these days is because there's no discipline in schools because teachers are so afraid of the kids Great idea! Take kids that commit crimes and give them years of professional training in military tactics! I SEE NO WAY THIS COULD BACKFIRE! It also shows them the brutality of the world, a sense of order and discipline that cannot be provided in urban Britain. Yeah because it's no longer parents/teachers responsibility to teach order or discipline, this is where things are failing, all these ***** ignorant parents that go into schools and says their little ** is an angel and wouldn't step a toe out of line. Edit: Type-o's
Zephyr Rengate Racketeers	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:35:00 - [45] How about parents learn to control their kids. There is a difference to abuse and discipline. Also the people in the music industry should not be allowed to release music which only promotes yobbish behaviour.
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:38:00 - [46] 0_o I found it funny at first, but after giving it some thought it's a bit scary... I mean, yes, it can target anti social behaviour/chavs/whoever but...it will target everyone else in that age bracket too. So...if you do behave properly, and you're being judged and punished along with the people that don't, purely based on age, then what's the incentive to continue behaving properly? How is this not discrimination? And yeah, a 'noise' isn't really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it's what it represents...segregating off a section (and entire age range) of society and saying 'you are undesirable.' It's weird, and seems like very backward thinking (though I understand that it's a simple solution and people are probably using them out of desperation because other alternatives have not worked...) __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:40:00 - [47] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 19:40:40 Originally by: TimGascoigne Originally by: Kirjava Yes, Britain is a disgrace in that respect, we should have mandatory military service to put the chavs world view into perspective. you're probably right. I personally have absolutely no objection to national service And wonder why it was stopped in the first place. However I think that the key problem is that it says something very profound to the young. "We don't give a rat's ass about how you feel and what you think, so he is some annoying noise to make you **** off because you are an unsightly the scene." ...........catching up my drift. This is kind of why I'm annoyed about it even though I haven't come across one of these devices. It's not the noise, it's the insult. Like what if young people were putting up speakers in public playing loud death metal music for the purpose of getting rid of old people as they find this intolerable (and so do I lol). You can bet your lucky stars that the police would be there to bring an end to things in 10 minutes and prosecutions would be on the way. Well this is more words than I normally post but I think you get the idea Why would anyone give a rats ass what teenagers think and feel? You don't vote. You don't pay taxes. You are dependants for the most part. Why should anyone care particularly shopkeepers? What rights do you imagine you have that you imagine are being violated here? EVE RELATED CONTENT
Zephyr Rengate Racketeers	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:43:00 - [48] Could people play loud music on their phones to cancel out the noise? If so great anti young people device GG Dail lolmail readers.
Magorath	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:46:00 - [49] Originally by: SoftRevolution Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 19:40:40 Why would anyone give a rats ass what teenagers think and feel? You don't vote. You don't pay taxes. You are dependants for the most part. Why should anyone care particularly shopkeepers? What rights do you imagine you have that you imagine are being violated here? Human Rights But that would imply that the ones causing problems are human....
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:54:00 - [50] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 19:54:23 Clearly these measures wouldn't be being taken if the behaviour they are designed to stop (criminality and intimidation) wasn't affecting the quality of life of other people. What about their human rights? Ever hear the expression "Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose starts"? I assume if you're a shop keeper you're not going to be getting dewy eyed over the local wigga street youfs at the expense of your paying customers. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2008.02.12 20:12:00 - [51] Originally by: SoftRevolution Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 19:40:40 Why would anyone give a rats ass what teenagers think and feel? You don't vote. You don't pay taxes. You are dependants for the most part. Why should anyone care particularly shopkeepers? What rights do you imagine you have that you imagine are being violated here? Taxes at the age of 16 if we don't go onto futhur education, and at 18 we can vote and die for our country. Teenagers are the next generation, and thous of us who actually want to contribute to society are having a hard enough time as it is due to the general stereotype. I've lost count of the number of job application forms I've filled in over the last year only to be dismissed becuase I'm male and working class. Lets just hope my application into the army is succesful, at least they don't discriminate against the native people. And yes I am a teenager, 18 and proud of it. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 20:15:00 - [52] Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: SoftRevolution Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 19:40:40 Why would anyone give a rats ass what teenagers think and feel? You don't vote. You don't pay taxes. You are dependants for the most part. Why should anyone care particularly shopkeepers? What rights do you imagine you have that you imagine are being violated here? Taxes at the age of 16 if we don't go onto futhur education, and at 18 we can vote and die for our country. Teenagers are the next generation, and thous of us who actually want to contribute to society are having a hard enough time as it is due to the general stereotype. I've lost count of the number of job application forms I've filled in over the last year only to be dismissed becuase I'm male and working class. Lets just hope my application into the army is succesful, at least they don't discriminate against the native people. And yes I am a teenager, 18 and proud of it. Cough Assuming you actually work Cough
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.12 20:26:00 - [53] Originally by: SoftRevolution Why would anyone give a rats ass what teenagers think and feel? You don't vote. You don't pay taxes. You are dependants for the most part. Why should anyone care particularly shopkeepers? What rights do you imagine you have that you imagine are being violated here? Seems a few people are agreeing with my 17 year old views, so they give a rats ass apparently. I wish I could vote - I have to explain to people what the votes actualy are for because they don't bother reading the news and politics apart from the elections. Yes they are my grandparents but they can vote - I can't. Taxes? VAT? Dependant? I dream of the day I can get out of it, seriously I can feel it dragging me down allmost everyday.... Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Lord MuffloN Caldari Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.02.12 20:30:00 - [54] I live in Sweden, I've never heard of such a device or seen/heard anyone using it, but if someone uses it while I'm there, I will specifically stay there and IF I get hurt by it, then I will do something I despise a lot and often criticize other for, I will sue their asses off, and throw a tantrum in the local press, and believe me, a boycott of said store and court, will ** up that store faster then you can imagine. I've never caused anyone intentionally harm, I never get into fights or provoke someone, but if you threaten me, or my freedom I will do everything in my powers to crush you under my fist, and I'm inclined to believe that devices do threaten my freedom. Believe me, It's a policy I enforce. Many many old persons whom think they are above me or my friends, for no reason at all, have gotten to pay a high price for this. Originally by:** Jago Kain If they ever decide to award a Nobel Prize for Emo, Lord MuffloN is a sure fire winner of the first on
Gyfrex	Posted - 2008.02.12 20:34:00 - [55] I'm a teenager in the UK, in london to be precise, to be quite fair if you've seen teenagers do some of the things i've seen them do, then you'd genuinely think this is a great idea....if it worked...thing it they just send out a mass text on their phones to tell everyone to meet up on another street corner out of the police's view. Personally I think that anyone causing trouble in a violent manner should have to face up to some nice rubber bullets, and if they are just causing trouble then pressure hose em, sure they'll whine a bit but after being hit 2 or three times I think they'll stop being total ******s....for a while anyway. ---
SubTig	Posted - 2008.02.12 20:45:00 - [56] ooo I love a good thread where no one has any idea wtf they are on about!!!! hehehe I even have this on my phone.... works a treat. I had to laugh at all these poor people who have been violated, who seem to be mainly teenagers complaining. I could write an essay about this, but can't really be bothered so let me just say as a professional in this field. It's there because it's needed and it works. Flame away cos today I'm wearing flame proof pants
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.12 20:58:00 - [57] Wow, this is the kind of stuff you'd expect them to invent in Iran or Saudi Arabia. EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 21:04:00 - [58] Edited by: Xen Gin on 12/02/2008 21:06:29 I don't know what everyone is BSing about. If you've heard it, you know it doesn't hurt, its just annoying. About as annoying as the sound of university students from Southern California mind you but it doesn't damage or hurt. And its sounds like crickets chirping, as its not a constant sound.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.12 21:37:00 - [59] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 12/02/2008 21:45:25 Originally by: mama guru Wow, this is the kind of stuff you'd expect them to invent in Iran or Saudi Arabia. Nah. In Saudi they'd just haul you off and beat the soles of your feet with wooden clubs. I wasn't really considering =>18 to be teenagers. You're an adult at that point. Technically your age does end in "teen" but you no longer belong to this awkward category that did not exist a hundred years ago. It used to go straight from childhood to adulthood. OK we did only live to 40 on average back then but there you go. If you're 16 and working you should be too tired to mooch about outside at all hours anyway. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Mtthias Clemi Gallente The Space Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.12 21:40:00 - [60] Its like that noise that CRTs make GOD IT ****ES ME OFF, i used to go around my house and make sure all the tvs were off because of that sort of thing (we only have flat screens now, so all gd)... i cant say ive ever been to a place that uses this though.. but i live in a fairly posh place.
MalVortex	Posted - 2008.02.12 21:44:00 - [61] God I hope they bring this to the US. I want to be the "teenager" (20 is still a teen, apparently ) that gets set for life through suing everybody involved. Its blatantly discriminatory, and while privacy/civil laws are obviouslly different in Britain, I'm glad something like this would never last an instant in the US. We're In your mall, Being Antisocial.
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.12 21:52:00 - [62] Revolution, i'll give you a 8/10 for your excellent trolling.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:04:00 - [63] Who's trolling? I just wish they'd invent one for the homeless as well. Maybe a noise at the exact resonant frequency of white lighting bottles and special brew cans? EVE RELATED CONTENT
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:28:00 - [64] Edited by: Xen Gin on 12/02/2008 22:28:05 Originally by: SoftRevolution Who's trolling? I just wish they'd invent one for the homeless as well. Maybe a noise at the exact resonant frequency of white lighting bottles and special brew cans? Or one that seems to inexplicably cause items of fake Burberry clothing to spontaneously combust! That would be cool!
Araxmas An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:36:00 - [65] Originally by: TimGascoigne Despite most teenagers being law-abiding citizens (ie me) and young crime is no higher than any other age group. That's a lie and you know it. Im 18 and I can happily say that my age-group is the biggest bunch of chav screw-ups ever seen to grace the earth. About one in 50 of every person is not a chav so therefore if this machine hurts the majority of violence ass-hats than it's fine by me. -------- The Derek Quote Pyramid
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:53:00 - [66] Law abiding teenagers are at home doing homework and are not loitering around outside shops!
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Xen Gin Law abiding teenagers are at home doing homework and are not loitering around outside shops! Unless they're...you know...shopping. ---------------- Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!)
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:00:00 - [68] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Xen Gin Law abiding teenagers are at home doing homework and are not loitering around outside shops! Unless they're...you know...shopping. Damn, one tiny flaw in my logic, trust it to be you Tarminic! Curses!
Havok Dryke	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:01:00 - [69] Remind me to cancel my trip to the UK. This sort of countermeasure is discrimination, plain and simple. Blaming an entire demographic for the mistakes caused only by some individuals is how racism starts. Kinda sad to see older people openly discriminating against youths to make themselves feel better about themselves. At least teenagers haven't started any wars yet...
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:05:00 - [70] Originally by: Havok Dryke Remind me to cancel my trip to the UK. This sort of countermeasure is discrimination, plain and simple. Blaming an entire demographic for the mistakes caused only by some individuals is how racism starts. Kinda sad to see older people openly discriminating against youths to make themselves feel better about themselves. At least teenagers haven't started any wars yet... Those zimmerframe wars were real deadly weren't they. Still at least we got to laugh at old people falling over!
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:19:00 - [71] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 12/02/2008 23:23:21 Originally by: SubTig ooo I love a good thread where no one has any idea wtf they are on about!!!! hehehe I even have this on my phone.... works a treat. I had to laugh at all these poor people who have been violated, who seem to be mainly teenagers complaining. I could write an essay about this, but can't really be bothered so let me just say as a professional in this field. It's there because it's needed and it works. Easy to say when you're not the victim, isn't it? Originally by: Riethe There's definitely not any evidence showing that violent crimes are committed primarily by teenagers. Some teenagers just don't get it. Yes, young people may indeed commit twice as much crime as people in other agegroups, but it's still the minority and is thus unfair discrimination against young people who are otherwise perfectly innocent. As someone else said, if they made such a device that only affected Black/Asian people (after all, it's proven fact that they commit more crime), what do you think the response would be? At the end of the day, it's only going to be putting negative vibes into younger people. After all, how would you like it if everyone treated you as if you were some kind of parasite based on nothing but your age? I'm sure you'd have a lot of respect for them, possibly even thank them for it because they're doing you a favour. Oh wait...
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:22:00 - [72] Quote: Those zimmerframe wars were real deadly weren't they. Still at least we got to laugh at old people falling over! Confused Yes.... that was an excellent war... Loved the strategic use of Nanogrannies, I heard they got speeds of up to 0.5 m/sec! Then again, the INMYDAY Alliance put out an impressive showing too... -------------------------------------- Azeria L'Mante > and the lord CCP said, "ye have done wrong" and there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth as the nerfbat fell
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:23:00 - [73] I've started to experience frequency loss, music just doesn't sound as sweet anymore. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Ademaro Imre Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:33:00 - [74] Where can I buy one of these things? The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Ademaro Imre Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:35:00 - [75] Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 12/02/2008 23:35:05 Originally by: Lord MuffloN I live in Sweden, I've never heard of such a device or seen/heard anyone using it, but if someone uses it while I'm there, I will specifically stay there and IF I get hurt by it, then I will do something I despise a lot and often criticize other for, I will sue their asses off, and throw a tantrum in the local press, and believe me, a boycott of said store and court, will ** up that store faster then you can imagine. I've never caused anyone intentionally harm, I never get into fights or provoke someone, but if you threaten me, or my freedom I will do everything** in my powers to crush you under my fist, and I'm inclined to believe that devices do threaten my freedom. Believe me, It's a policy I enforce. Many many old persons whom think they are above me or my friends, for no reason at all, have gotten to pay a high price for this. It won't harm you though. Its just annoying. Its like when store managers intentionally change store music to "elevator music," and turn it up when they want to rid the store of certain "patrons." The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Gojyu Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:01:00 - [76] Edited by: Gojyu on 13/02/2008 00:01:12 Originally by: Havok Dryke Remind me to cancel my trip to the UK. This sort of countermeasure is discrimination, plain and simple. Blaming an entire demographic for the mistakes caused only by some individuals is how racism starts. Kinda sad to see older people openly discriminating against youths to make themselves feel better about themselves. At least teenagers haven't started any wars yet... The thing a lot of people don't realise is that discrimination is very much fine if it's actually true. The fact is vandalism, robbery and destruction of property tends to be committed by teenagers. The fact is that anecdotal evidence suggests these things are working. What we need is a large area scientific trial to see whether vandalism and the like goes down with these things on, however some bleeding hearts don't want that because "it'll send a message to young billy that he's being judged by his age rather than everybody agreeing he's a unique and beautiful snow flake". Everyone gets discriminated against by age, we might as well get used to it. Do you have any idea how much 21 year olds pay for car insurance? How about how hard it is for a 30 year old to get unskilled work over a 20 year old? What about how hard it is for any 40 year old to get a job over someone in their late 20's? Or how about all the calls for 50 year olds to have their licenses revoked unless they pass a test. And god help you if you're 60 and want to live an independent life without government handouts. Despite what they teach you in school, every single person in the world discriminates against some group, and it's not always a bad thing.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:11:00 - [77] don't worry people, it's the "war on terror" nothing to see here...
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:25:00 - [78] As long as it keeps the damn kids of my damn lawn then I'm ok with it. Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Orion Eridanus As long as it keeps the damn kids of my damn lawn then I'm ok with it. Naw, that's what this is for Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:36:00 - [80] Demonising youth? I see no possible way that this could spiral downwards. What a backwards little island y'all live on. Some punks hanging around outside your shop chasing away customers, call the cops. Thats what you pay them for. Playing a noise for the sole purpose of annoying someone is assault and/or harassment. They say this device doesn't hurt anyone, but neither does shoving someone, spitting in his face, and telling him to ** off. He doesn't need to go to the hospital, so how could it possibly be assault? I'd think the latter is clearly illegal, so why not the first? Isn't this thing essentially telling every single person under 25 "go ** them selves, 'cause you aint welcome here."
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:12:00 - [81] Originally by: Brea Lafail Demonising youth? I see no possible way that this could spiral downwards. What a backwards little island y'all live on. Some punks hanging around outside your shop chasing away customers, call the cops. Thats what you pay them for. Playing a noise for the sole purpose of annoying someone is assault and/or harassment. They say this device doesn't hurt anyone, but neither does shoving someone, spitting in his face, and telling him to ** off. He doesn't need to go to the hospital, so how could it possibly be assault? I'd think the latter is clearly illegal, so why not the first? Isn't this thing essentially telling every single person under 25 "go ** them selves, 'cause you aint welcome here." LMAO. OK, lets keep calling the police like they've been doing since before the device? Because its obviously worked in the past! OMG, Is that scarecrow scaring away crows? Sue the scarecrow, sue, SUE!!! The crows have the right to feed you know!
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:17:00 - [82] Originally by: Xen Gin LMAO. OK, lets keep calling the police like they've been doing since before the device? Because its obviously worked in the past! And who's fault is that? The one innocent party is the law-abiding teens that are impacted by the police's incompetence and ineffectiveness of your legal system.
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:26:00 - [83] Edited by: Xen Gin on 13/02/2008 01:28:50 Originally by: Brea Lafail Originally by: Xen Gin LMAO. OK, lets keep calling the police like they've been doing since before the device? Because its obviously worked in the past! And who's fault is that? The one innocent party is the law-abiding teens that are impacted by the police's incompetence and ineffectiveness of your legal system. Law-abiding teens walk into the shop, buy stuff, and walk out. Not hang around for 20 minutes casing the place, asking people to commit crimes to buy them cigs and drink. If you walk straight pass you barely even notice it, and that's even if its on for the 20 minutes in every hour.
Alexa Devlos	Posted - 2008.02.13 01:26:00 - [84] Sorry, you can't enter this country because of your associations with the middle-east and as such, due to more middle-eastern people commiting acts of Terror than elsewhere in the world, please **** right off.
Tauscha Vald'or	Posted - 2008.02.13 02:23:00 - [85] HAHAHAA. Granted that would have sucked when I was a teen...being productive and all, not standing around texting all the time like you damn kids today. Now pardon me while I totter off to my water aerobics class. I need to pick up some Depends on the way. The diner down the road is having a "Silver Special" too. I need to get there by 7 so my Barbershop Quartet can sing for those hotties from the home. Maybe Bertha will let me play with her motorized scooter again. WHEE!
mamolian Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.13 03:57:00 - [86] Edited by: mamolian on 13/02/2008 03:58:27 From reading some of the articles people posted on the first page there.. I'm getting the impression its not a noise you hear immediately? only upto 5 mins after your sitting within range of the device? If thats the case.. It should only affect crowds of kids hanging around public places.. Often where alot of the antisocial behavior occurs? heh If I had the cash I'd put one on the front of my house/business and if it kept crowed from hanging around I'd even consider it money well spent. So sick of hunting kids away from the front of the house.. Already had the car scratched.. front window broken.. Bloody stressful dealing with other peoples bastard kids.. -----------
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.13 04:25:00 - [87] Originally by: mamolian Edited by: mamolian on 13/02/2008 03:58:27 From reading some of the articles people posted on the first page there.. I'm getting the impression its not a noise you hear immediately? only upto 5 mins after your sitting within range of the device? If thats the case.. It should only affect crowds of kids hanging around public places.. Often where alot of the antisocial behavior occurs? heh If I had the cash I'd put one on the front of my house/business and if it kept crowed from hanging around I'd even consider it money well spent. So sick of hunting kids away from the front of the house.. Already had the car scratched.. front window broken.. Bloody stressful dealing with other peoples bastard kids.. They are ú500 a piece, and to put it in public you need permission from the council. But yeah, you don't hear it straight away, its when you start to rest, then it sort of ticks your ear drum.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.02.13 06:10:00 - [88] I don't really care if people of <insert age/ethnic/religious/whatever> group are doing most of the things wrong in a particular society... singling out a group is just an awesome way to further alienate those people... Most criminologists agree reintegration rather than retribution/punishment is a far better way to deal with problem areas/groups than just straight up punishment. It costs more, but is better than just shooting/hanging/ostracizing whatever group society is currently **ed off at. Crimes are socially embedded... the way to deal with them is social reintegration/education... not denying they spring from society. In this example, teenagers do the things they do because of the societies we created and live in, not because they are hardened criminals that need to be treated like animals with excellent hearing. For shame. Either involve people in the collective social world the rest of us live in (which is hard), or pay for the excesses the 'chavs' will indulge in when they are licensed by 'legal majority' to do so... In part, I blame parents and lack of structured activities to preempt behaviours that unsupervised kids get into without appropriate guidance. Parents leave raising children to others (underfunded schools, other children, arcades and the like)... yet complain when their kids turn out as they don't want.... wtf? So-called 'primitive' societies don't have these issues with near-adults.. why do we? Can it really be that hard to ensure people of all ages are actively encouraged to participate in their respective cultures? Embrace kids as valuable and responsible throughout their childhoods and you get well adjusted kids. Let them wander the street with no appropriate rolemodels and you get 'teenagers'. Originally by:** Mangala Solaris EVE really doesnt have set goals, its a freeform sandbox - yes a sandbox with kids that occasionally take a dump in it, but a sandbox never the less.
mamolian Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.13 08:48:00 - [89] Originally by: Mr Friendly So-called 'primitive' societies don't have these issues with near-adults.. why do we? I don't ever remember seeing "near-adults" of some of the worlds primitive cultures gathering in groups and behaving antisocially.. because their too busy cleaning the house.. carrying water.. picking through trash looking for ** to sell.. crafting items.. what ever it takes to survive.. Its a sad situation we have in a lot of the 1st world countries.. our kids don't have to spend every waking minute surviving.. the only thing that keeps em busy is entertainment And its not necessarily a bad thing.. heh when I think about it myself.. my every waking and working (when I can get away with it ) minute is taken up with entertainment.. be it playing internetspaceships.. or poasting on forums about internetspaceships I completely agree with you on the Originally by:** Mr Friendly ]"In part, I blame parents and lack of structured activities to preempt behaviours that unsupervised kids get into without appropriate guidance. Beyond entertainment revolving around alcohol consumption.. and sport.. wtf else is there to do for the majority of kids to keep em occupied except roam around in groups scaring old ladies and bugging the **** out of grumpy mofos like me -----------
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.13 09:58:00 - [90] A slightly more subtle way of doing the same thing: Linkage Nind you, it would probably work on me as well, and I'm 50 this year. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.02.13 10:06:00 - [91] Originally by: mamolian Originally by: Mr Friendly So-called 'primitive' societies don't have these issues with near-adults.. why do we? I don't ever remember seeing "near-adults" of some of the worlds primitive cultures gathering in groups and behaving antisocially.. because their too busy cleaning the house.. carrying water.. picking through trash looking for ** to sell.. crafting items.. what ever it takes to survive.. Its a sad situation we have in a lot of the 1st world countries.. our kids don't have to spend every waking minute surviving.. the only thing that keeps em busy is entertainment And its not necessarily a bad thing.. heh when I think about it myself.. my every waking and working (when I can get away with it ) minute is taken up with entertainment.. be it playing internetspaceships.. or poasting on forums about internetspaceships I completely agree with you on the Originally by:** Mr Friendly ]"In part, I blame parents and lack of structured activities to preempt behaviours that unsupervised kids get into without appropriate guidance. Beyond entertainment revolving around alcohol consumption.. and sport.. wtf else is there to do for the majority of kids to keep em occupied except roam around in groups scaring old ladies and bugging the ** out of grumpy mofos like me heh, keep in mind that Europe didn't have an 'adolescent' period 300+ years ago... it wasn't even so much about scrounging thru garbage to survive... more about expectations to fit in with 'adult' mores, achieve at an earlier age than is now the norm, follow in your families footsteps, found a family, support the grandparents etc. Life might have been accelerated then vs now, but 'adolescence' wasn't the extended childhood it is now. It was a time of early achievement. Accordingly, you were expected to put aside childhood and assume adult responsibilities. Better? Maybe not. Certainly it shows it possible that younger people are capable of not acting like buffoons well into their early 20's. It is certainly better than what I see the 'youths' in my city acting like because they no no better way to act. I live in a small apartment complex. One half of it filled up with 18-22 years old 'kids' about a year or so ago. Before then, the worst was a couple having a 'spat'. Now, every weekend, police must be called to multiple residences because the young tenants act like utterly unruly animals. If they were dogs they would be neutered or taken to the pound to be destroyed. Younger people need not act like that. They are capable of much better. It makes me sad. When I was younger, I raised some crap, too... but I didn't break windscreens (my roomate's car got vandalized), I didn't kick people's deck doors in (happened twice now to my neighbors), I didn't get into weekly rumbles (happens every 3 weeks or so) etc.... Instead, I got drunk, made some noise, had fun, then went home without blood on my clothes or a broken nose. Different ballgame. When I talk to my secretary who is 21, she reports more of the former than the latter. I don't think it's just me being older. I think it's the younger people are suffering from ennui and zero guidance. Originally by:** Mangala Solaris EVE really doesnt have set goals, its a freeform sandbox - yes a sandbox with kids that occasionally take a dump in it, but a sandbox never the less.
Nuala Reece Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:39:00 - [92] Originally by: Riethe Yep, I agree. There's definitely not any evidence showing that violent crimes are committed primarily by teenagers. Good job doing your research. /me taps his sarcasm detector to see if it's working right. It looked like you were being sarcastic here, until I followed your link to see that it clearly shows statistics that people aged 12-24 are by far more likely to be the victims of crime not the perpetrators Good job on your reading It's nice to see people kicking up a fuss about this device though, how it's lasted so long without people screaming that it may well breach several laws (Human Rights Act, Children Act, Age Discrimination Act) I don't understand. I admit I haven't seen any statistics either way about whether these devices actually reduce anti-social behaviour among under 25's. I have seen statistics though showing that building more youth clubs (you know, places for young people to gather and socialize safely) does reduce so called 'youth crimes' like vandalism, loitering, under age drinking etc etc quite significantly. I guess it's too much to ask though that the adults in communities put some effort into demanding services for their own young people, when they can just label them as trouble-makers and stick up what amounts to a hi-tech scarecrow on their walls instead.
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:56:00 - [93] Originally by: Nuala Reece Originally by: Riethe Yep, I agree. There's definitely not any evidence showing that violent crimes are committed primarily by teenagers. Good job doing your research. /me taps his sarcasm detector to see if it's working right. It looked like you were being sarcastic here, until I followed your link to see that it clearly shows statistics that people aged 12-24 are by far more likely to be the victims of crime not the perpetrators Good job on your reading It's nice to see people kicking up a fuss about this device though, how it's lasted so long without people screaming that it may well breach several laws (Human Rights Act, Children Act, Age Discrimination Act) I don't understand. I admit I haven't seen any statistics either way about whether these devices actually reduce anti-social behaviour among under 25's. I have seen statistics though showing that building more youth clubs (you know, places for young people to gather and socialize safely) does reduce so called 'youth crimes' like vandalism, loitering, under age drinking etc etc quite significantly. I guess it's too much to ask though that the adults in communities put some effort into demanding services for their own young people, when they can just label them as trouble-makers and stick up what amounts to a hi-tech scarecrow on their walls instead. The shop keep can demand all he wants, but if the council cant afford it. Seriously, here's the deal, in Wales, every council by 2010 has to update every council owned house with new bathrooms, kitchens and insulation around the house to bring it in line with European regulations or face massive fines. When this is done, Cardiff City Council will be the only council in Wales that isn't broke. I think funding more youth initiatives is going to be difficult. Also the inventor rigorously consented with lawyers to make sure it didn't break any law. Which it currently doesn't, and the UK government has said it has no intentions on banning them.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.13 13:53:00 - [94] Originally by: Xen Gin Seriously, here's the deal, in Wales, every council by 2010 has to update every council owned house with new bathrooms, kitchens and insulation around the house to bring it in line with European regulations or face massive fines. When this is done, Cardiff City Council will be the only council in Wales that isn't broke. I think funding more youth initiatives is going to be difficult. My God, city owned housing has to meet building code? What kind of mad world do we live in!? Also, learn2financialplan newb. Originally by: Xen Gin Which it currently doesn't, and the UK government has said it has no intentions on banning them. Only because not enough people have complained about it yet. Like all injustices, one day there will be a reckoning, even if it takes 100 years
Gojyu Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.13 13:59:00 - [95] Quote: So-called 'primitive' societies don't have these issues with near-adults.. why do we? In many of those so called primitive societies, a kid who steps over the line like we allow ours to is beaten. Not "smacked", I mean metal pipe style beaten. You know what would happen in some countries if a 15 year old pulled a knife on a 60 year old shop keeper? He'd be killed. You can't have it both ways. Nowdays we're not allowed to punish kids because it might hurt their delicate feelings, but at the same time, if kids mess up, it's always the parents for not instilling a sense of discipline.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.13 14:05:00 - [96] Originally by: Gojyu Quote: So-called 'primitive' societies don't have these issues with near-adults.. why do we? In many of those so called primitive societies, a kid who steps over the line like we allow ours to is beaten. Not "smacked", I mean metal pipe style beaten. You know what would happen in some countries if a 15 year old pulled a knife on a 60 year old shop keeper? He'd be killed. You can't have it both ways. Nowdays we're not allowed to punish kids because it might hurt their delicate feelings, but at the same time, if kids mess up, it's always the parents for not instilling a sense of discipline. So we're not allowed to punish people who actually cause crime/distrubance/etc, yet it's perfectly okay to punish a whole demograph? (The majority of which are perfectly innocent) Can't we just bring back the cane and capital punishment and be done with it? I get enough headache as it is, don't need some whiny noise slowly driving me insane. I also probably haven't commited a crime worthy of arrest in my life, so why should I suffer for other people's mistakes? Our legal system makes less sense every day
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.13 14:06:00 - [97] Originally by: Gojyu Nowdays we're not allowed to punish kids because it might hurt their delicate feelings, but at the same time, if kids mess up, it's always the parents for not instilling a sense of discipline. *pulls out his copy of Starship Troopers... I'd much rather kids get a bit of a thrashing if they start up trouble than this monstrous device in the OP.
Antodias North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.13 14:21:00 - [98] My ears have been screwed up because of playing drums without defenders anyway, so I'm immune I tells you, immune! ------------------------------------ Politically Correct since 2007. No really.
Gojyu Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.13 14:23:00 - [99] Edited by: Gojyu on 13/02/2008 14:23:47 Quote: So we're not allowed to punish people who actually cause crime/distrubance/etc, yet it's perfectly okay to punish a whole demograph? (The majority of which are perfectly innocent) Can't we just bring back the cane and capital punishment and be done with it? Razz I get enough headache as it is, don't need some whiny noise slowly driving me insane. I also probably haven't commited a crime worthy of arrest in my life, so why should I suffer for other people's mistakes? Our legal system makes less sense every day Confused It's unfortunate, but no, we're not allowed to punish people who actually cause crime if they're kids. Look at the legal system presently, it's chock full of protections and limitations put in place to minimise punishment for child offenders. It's a case of insanity, I agree. For instance, I work in a supermarket to pay for uni, if someone steals a couple of hundred dollars worth of dvd's (as someone did a few months ago) did you know we aren't allowed to pursue them once they're outside the store. Also, did you know that unless they're outside the store, they aren't guilty of shoplifting? Hell, that doesn't stop us (someone may or may not have run the dvd kid's face into a brick wall in what was conveniently a blind patch in the security camera coverage), but we could actually be charged for even grabbing someone by the collar? It's the world we live in, and to be frank, if the only way we're allowed to put a stop to some of the crime out there involves a minor inconvenience to a small subset of people, I'm all for it. If it were me that would be affected by the device, and I knew my discomfort might mean less tools hanging around the local corner store, I'd still be all for it
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.13 14:36:00 - [100] Seeing a couple of common themes in this thread lets address them, those claiming that this is going too far and that its only a minority causing it... utter rubbish, we've got to a point where sacrificing some of the freedoms of a bracket of people is the only way to deal with a threat to the majority of people. I use the term people loosely when describing them as well, because they have no respect for the elderly, the young, the infirm, heck even those serving abroad to protect their sorry behinds from getting blown up and the freedom's the hang around out side stores up to no good. To enjoy the freedom's of a society one must respect the other members of that society. Second the I'll hang around it till it damages my ears then sue comment, first pretty sure any judge would take one look at the case go well you hung around despite warnings from both the owner and the police. But its this kinda attitude that causing the problem in the first place when kids are supposed to get taught discipline by their elders parents or teachers they're often so afraid of this kinda of legal action these days that they'll appease the violent youths rather than do anything to teach them right from wrong. Biggest problem is that teachers hands are so tied these days if a kid has a go at them or threatens them they basically have to shut up and put up with it, then when parents are told they don't believe it thinking the sun shines out of their ass. So in the end what it comes down to is bad parenting and the parents aren't been punished for their children's actions, tbh any sentence pronounced on a child under the age of 16 should also be pronounced on their parents also including the creation of a criminal offence of bad parenting, parents would soon kick their kids into line if they faced the consequences of their kid acting out of line.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.13 15:01:00 - [101] Originally by: Marisal Seeing a couple of common themes in this thread lets address them, those claiming that this is going too far and that its only a minority causing it... utter rubbish, we've got to a point where sacrificing some of the freedoms of a bracket of people is the only way to deal with a threat to the majority of people. I agree with everything you said but this. So... you're saying that the War Measures Act (Im pretty sure there's an equivalent in the UK) should be put into force and these "chavs," or whatever you call them, should be rounded up and put in concentration camps? But, some might disguise themselves as normal kids, better lock up everone aged 12-18, that'd show those little whipper-snappers. And there would be no negative consequences of this.
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.13 16:03:00 - [102] Originally by: Brea Lafail Originally by: Marisal Seeing a couple of common themes in this thread lets address them, those claiming that this is going too far and that its only a minority causing it... utter rubbish, we've got to a point where sacrificing some of the freedoms of a bracket of people is the only way to deal with a threat to the majority of people. I agree with everything you said but this. So... you're saying that the War Measures Act (Im pretty sure there's an equivalent in the UK) should be put into force and these "chavs," or whatever you call them, should be rounded up and put in concentration camps? But, some might disguise themselves as normal kids, better lock up everone aged 12-18, that'd show those little whipper-snappers. And there would be no negative consequences of this. Not anything as extreme as that, also using the term concentration camp in your post is the wrong word because too many associate it with the death camps of world war two, a better term to use would be internment camps. But im not suggesting that at all, there's large difference between a device designs to disperse groups of people that are likely to act in a criminal manner and interment of said groups when simply defined by age range. That comment was made more to highlight the extent the issue has got to rather than promote anything as severe as interment, yes there could be negative consequences if the response wasn't a measured and well thought out one, but as with everything it is about balance and currently it is been pushed out of balance by the criminal behaviour of a specific group and certain measures need to be used to balance the issue out, it is not as if softer tactics haven't been used before this, it is not something thats unfounded and suddenly out of the blue either, from simply asking groups to move on to providing them with facilities so they don't have to hang around in inappropriate locations all the way through to asbo's have proved ineffective en mass, in fact the asbo is seen as a badge of honour by many show's you how detached from a respectful society these groups are. Im not tarring everyone with the same brush but the problem is too large to tackle on an individual, person by person scale and be effective, to user your war associated analogy its like a country declaring war on another country that is your ally, your forced to attack the aggressive country as a whole to stop it, when it may only be some citizen's that are causing them to go to war. No im not saying declare war on youths. I think most would agree that when you impinge on someone else's freedom's, in a fair and just society you should loose the right to some of your freedom's after all you wouldn't want someone that had just shot someone to be able to goto the pub and chat with his mates would you. In reality where not debating whether these groups should loose specific freedom's for their impingement on others freedom's but really the scale and lack of discrimination in removing those freedom's. While I agree that the current topic at question the device is indiscriminate and therefore not ideal show me a better alternative that works effectively on the same scale, and is less resource intensive, its basically the sniper vs the aoe argument if ya wanna bring it down to gamer's eye view of things, sniping your gonna be certain you get only your intended targets but its going to take you longer the more of them there are, where as with aoe your gonna get all the targets in a single shot but theres also potential to hit friendlies or even yourself with the splash damage.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.13 16:45:00 - [103] Originally by: Marisal Seeing a couple of common themes in this thread lets address them, those claiming that this is going too far and that its only a minority causing it... utter rubbish, we've got to a point where sacrificing some of the freedoms of a bracket of people is the only way to deal with a threat to the majority of people. what was it benjamin franklin said about that? oh yeah. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." and what was it jfk said? i suggest you listen very carefully, for ONCE in your life. .... "Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society, BY IMMITATING ITS ARBITRARY RESTRICTIONS. even today there is little value in ensuring the survival of our nation, if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand it's meaning, to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That i do not intend to permit, in the extent that it is within my control." .... "For we are opposed around the world, by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy, that relies primarily on covet means for expanding it's sphere of influence. on infiltration, instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerillas by night instead of armies by day. it is a system which has conscripted, vast human and material ressources, into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine, that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published, its mistakes are buried not headlined, its dissenters are silenced, not praised. no expendature is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. No president should fear public scrutiny of his program, for from that scrutiny comes understanding, and from that understanding comes support or opposition, and both are necessary, i am not asking your newspapers to support an administration, BUT I AM ASKING YOUR HELP in the tremendous task, of informing and alerting the american people.. for i have complete confidence, in the response and dedication of our citizens, whenever they are fully informed. I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers, i welcome it. This administration intends to be candid about our errors. for as a wise man once said: "an error doesn't become a mistake, untill you refuse to correct it." we intend to accept full responsibility for our errors, and we expect you to point them out when we miss them. Without debate, without critisism no administration and no country can succeed, and no republic can survive. That is why the athenian lawmaker solem decreed it a crime, for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the 1st ammendment, the only business in america, specifically protected by the constitution, not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply give the public what it wants, but to inform to arouse to reflect. To state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crisies and our choices, to lead, mold, educate, and sometimes even anger public oppinion. " "This means greater coverage and analyzis of international news, FOR IT IS NO LONGER FAR AWAY AND FOREIGN, BUT CLOSE AT HAND AND LOCAL."
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.13 16:45:00 - [104] "It means greater attention to improved understanding of the news, aswell as improved transmission. And it means finally, that government at all levels must meet ITS obligation to provide you with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits of national security. And so it is to the printing press, to the recorder of mans deeds, the keeper of his concience, the courier of his news, that we look for strength and assistance. Confident that with your help, MAN WILL BE WHAT HE WAS BORN TO BE, FREE AND INDEPENDENT." and we all know what happened next... fast forward: gb senior gives his speech announcing the "new world order". gb junior declares war without congressional approval (directly against the constitution) gb junior says "let's not tolerate conspiracy theories, malicious lies that intends to switch the blame away from the terrorists, away from the guilty" gb junior gives his new world order speech gb junior pardons himself from warcrimes. gb junior says "it would be much easier if this was a dictatorship, just as long as i'm the dictator chuckles" global id bill is attempted to be passed. microchip propaganda in the news. (verichipcorp.org) congress running around voting for ppl who are not there as they pass various bills, even for people not in their own party, all filmed and published. david rockefeller: "they'll have all their money and information on those chips, and if they disagree with what we're doing, we'll just turn off their chip." david rockefeller: "your an idiot chuckles, we funded the womans rights movements, because before then, only the male population could pay taxes to us :D" (federal reserve). david rockefeller: "what do you care about those other people for? you just take care of yourself and your family". WAKE THE F'CK UP.
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.13 17:49:00 - [105] We've gone way beyond the whole issue at hand here we're talking about a electronic device designed to disperse groups, that is indiscriminate you could have the same argument about a water cannon or rubber bullets been used on a protest where not all of the protesters have turn violent, your sure gonna want that protest to disperse before they get close to you, no matter your personal beliefs. "And what of those forced to sacrifice their freedom's at the expense of maintaining others freedoms, equality of freedom's demands all be free or none at all". The point is there's never been true freedom in any state that's not run by a true democracy and there isn't one currently in the world least not in a major country to the best of my knowledge. You argue for the freedom's of these groups but what about the freedom's of those that they impinge upon those that deserve the freedom to walk the streets without been spat on, verbally abused, physically attacked. We've been operating on system where certain freedom's have been sacrificed for the good of the whole since the moment we conceived a state body rather than simply just individuals.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.13 17:59:00 - [106] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 13/02/2008 18:08:05 Originally by: Marisal We've gone way beyond the whole issue at hand here we're talking about a electronic device designed to disperse groups, that is indiscriminate you could have the same argument about a water cannon or rubber bullets been used on a protest where not all of the protesters have turn violent, your sure gonna want that protest to disperse before they get close to you, no matter your personal beliefs. "And what of those forced to sacrifice their freedom's at the expense of maintaining others freedoms, equality of freedom's demands all be free or none at all". The point is there's never been true freedom in any state that's not run by a true democracy and there isn't one currently in the world least not in a major country to the best of my knowledge. You argue for the freedom's of these groups but what about the freedom's of those that they impinge upon those that deserve the freedom to walk the streets without been spat on, verbally abused, physically attacked. We've been operating on system where certain freedom's have been sacrificed for the good of the whole since the moment we conceived a state body rather than simply just individuals. what.. "oh there's never been freedom so there's no sense in even striving for it anyways". what a load of rubbish. we have to go WAY back in time to have a world with so little freedom in the world that there is these days. and that in the name of "freedom". refer to my reply above. but before 9/11 and all that hogwash the world was very different, we were much more free. what? protests shouldn't be allowed? oh yeah.. i see how it is.. are you drunk by any chance, cause i sure hope you are. the last part of your reply is missing a point and a bit of coherence. why do you think people demonstrate and teenagers turn emo and distraught? because peoples freedoms are being taken away in the name of "freedom". and you want to "stop" that by removing even more of their freedom in the name of "security"? dude you need a reality check. that's like saying to a *****victim "well you were never raped so just forget about it, and i don't want to hear about it ever again, because it never happened." go read my reply's above, those people quoted there, knew what they were talking about. and the exact thing they warned about is what is happening. and untill you realize this, your eating right out of the palm of their hand, cause your saying exactly what they want you to say and think. playing right into it.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.13 18:28:00 - [107] I was wondering when someone was gonna turn this into a US hate thread.... Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Nuala Reece Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.13 18:41:00 - [108] Edited by: Nuala Reece on 13/02/2008 18:41:39 Originally by: 7shining7one7 because peoples freedoms are being taken away in the name of "freedom". and you want to "stop" that by removing even more of their freedom in the name of "security"? Yeah, I do enjoy the astonishing lack of ability to appreciate the irony when people argue this point of view (I say 'argue' to be charitable, because often what they're really doing is just repeating a phrase rather than intellectualizing a rational opinion) - the idea that we can protect our freedoms by allowing our freedoms to be taken away from us by the state (backed up by the notion that the freedoms of some are more valuable than the freedoms of others - as if freedom can exist at all when it's denied to some for the benefit of others). Brilliant! It's like protecting my land by allowing a robber baron to steal it from me. I guess if I don't have freedoms I don't have to worry about keeping them, and then I can go back to blissful, ignorant sleep safe in the knowledge that I won't notice the next time I get shafted. To add another quote to the list, from people who know a thing or two about sacrifices in the name of protecting freedom: "Two of the greatest dangers to survival are the desire for comfort and a passive outlook." - US Army Ranger Handbook
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.13 19:29:00 - [109] I can't say anymore really, wow wtf.
SniperWo1f Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.13 20:15:00 - [110] at least this proves there's a market for my latest invention a traquilizer dart gun for inftans/small children this way when your out running erands or just anywhere some child is throwing a tantrum or screaming inssesantly . you can just discreetly draw the gun aim PFFFT! ... nap time junior . hopefully this works out better than "the BABYTAZER" .
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.02.13 20:21:00 - [111] Originally by: SniperWo1f at least this proves there's a market for my latest invention a traquilizer dart gun for inftans/small children this way when your out running erands or just anywhere some child is throwing a tantrum or screaming inssesantly . you can just discreetly draw the gun aim PFFFT! ... nap time junior . hopefully this works out better than "the BABYTAZER" . good one
LUH 3471	Posted - 2008.02.13 20:26:00 - [112] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 13/02/2008 20:27:55 im devoid of words so much hate evrywhere for nothing well nothing is not entirely right hate needs someone to be there to highlight the good yin and yang
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.13 21:02:00 - [113] Originally by: 7shining7one7 what.. "oh there's never been freedom so there's no sense in even striving for it anyways". Never said, said freedom's come at a cost. Originally by: 7shining7one7 what a load of rubbish. we have to go WAY back in time to have a world with so little freedom in the world that there is these days. and that in the name of "freedom". refer to my reply above. but before 9/11 and all that hogwash the world was very different, we were much more free. Im not even going into whats wrong in these statements. Originally by: 7shining7one7 what? protests shouldn't be allowed? oh yeah.. i see how it is.. are you drunk by any chance, cause i sure hope you are. Again never once said this but if you want, if you want to pick at the point of right to protest which is a right thats very important to keep, take a look at the polls about the extremely controversial flag burning amendment (i pick that because its a highly polarised issue its been picked out for no other reason and im not expressing my view on the topic here) it shows how in general peoples freedom to protest how they want is extremely divided in public with it constantly shifting between the majority and the minority in support of the controversial amendment. Originally by: 7shining7one7 the last part of your reply is missing a point and a bit of coherence. why do you think people demonstrate and teenagers turn emo and distraught? because peoples freedoms are being taken away in the name of "freedom". and you want to "stop" that by removing even more of their freedom in the name of "security"? people demonstrating and teenager turning emo and distraught is something completely, these kids aren't protesting, they're behaving an in anti social and in cases criminal manner, and teenagers aren't turning emo and distraught because they're freedom's are been taken away, go up to these groups and ask them (assuming you don't get violently attacked from just coming up to them and talking to them) why they hang around shops, commit vandalism and violence and are generally disrespectful, if they don't give you a mouthful of abuse they'll struggle to give you a reason which usually ends up with them saying cus we've got nothing else to do. Originally by: 7shining7one7 dude you need a reality check. that's like saying to a ***victim "well you were never raped so just forget about it, and i don't want to hear about it ever again, because it never happened." Attempting to bait me there, didn't work. Seriously there is no link with what you say there and any of my posts, infact the more I read it the more it comes across a complete and utter attempt to bait me with absolutely no founding else where in the thread, Infact its given me a point to argue against your argument the way your currently talking is as if the rapist has the right to be free even though he's when he's proven guilty by a jury of his peers. Originally by:** 7shining7one7 go read my reply's above, those people quoted there, knew what they were talking about. and the exact thing they warned about is what is happening. and untill you realize this, you're eating right out of the palm of their hand, cause your saying exactly what they want you to say and think. playing right into it. Your posts above are not anything but quotes(some vastly out of context) from a specific period of time that is not entirely relevant, though we have to learn from the past and these historical figures and their wisdom, we also have to acknowledge learning is an accumulative process just because something was accepted as the truth then doesn't mean it is the complete truth always. You have still yet to answer my question what about the freedom's of those that are attacked by these groups do they not deserve the freedom's that your so fiercely defending, are these people that are attacked some how lesser deserving of them, lesser deserving of the right to live peaceful and law abiding live
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:01:00 - [114] Edited by: MassonA on 13/02/2008 22:03:37 If there was something similar to this aimed at the 'adult' agegroup people would be hitting the roof. Because it's aimed at an agegroup, who nobody cares about and I quote: Originally by: SoftRevolution Why would anyone give a rats ass what teenagers think and feel? It doesn't mean **. It doesn't affect the people who can actually change this situation, so it doesn't need changing. You can all think that teenagers know ** all about the world and how it works, however there are rich, young business men & women who have proven that maybe we aren't as useless as the rest of you think.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:12:00 - [115] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 13/02/2008 22:19:20 im devoid of words so much energy wasted for nothing one might think tho on closer observance this is prooving to be not the case sometimes there needs to be bad in order to highlight the good yin and yang evrything has a cyclic existence and the only thing certain in this world is change but more important what is the answer to this mess? the answer to this as to evrythign else is love. if we only could remember how to love ? what is love anyway ? you cant buy love with money that is for sure !Laughing love one could argue is a balancing force in the cosmos and we clearly seem to have lost balance between our inner and outer world. indeed we are afraid of the inside running away from it, but that wont solve any problems for us but there will only pile up more and more stuff sooner or later we or our childrens children will have to face the consequences and pay the price. this utter absurdity thinking has to stop thus i and not only i suggest evryone stops running and makes peace with themselfs. making peace with yourself inside is really making peace with the world outside at large. no political party or system can ever bring this peace only we ourselfs. i dont care how we each for him/herself do it (god or no god) just do it instead starting to argue over minor things - what we need is peace , not tomorrow but peace now ! this arguing with reality is exactly that which manuvered us into this situation in the first place when we argue with reality we loose but 100% now who is it who constantly argues with reality ? it is this mind of ours there is a war inside of us goin on day and night, constant chatter, constant judging as i see it it is evryones responsebillity to become aware of this inner battlefield and develope love and compassion towards him/herself and thus also towards others otherwise itll explode sooner or later like a bomb and how that looks we saw in the last two world wars it is at us to learn from our past mistakes shoudl millions of people have died for nothing? thus be bold and take action now hiding from ourselfs wont solve anything
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:22:00 - [116] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 13/02/2008 22:26:31 Originally by: MassonA Edited by: MassonA on 13/02/2008 22:03:05 If there was something similar to this aimed at the 'adult' agegroup people would be hitting the roof. Because it's aimed at an agegroup, who nobody cares about and I quote: Originally by: SoftRevolution Why would anyone give a rats ass what teenagers think and feel? It doesn't mean **. It doesn't affect the people who can actually change this situation, so it doesn't need changing. You can all think that teenagers know all about the world and how it works, however there are a few rich, young business men & women who have proven that maybe we aren't as useless as the rest of you think That remark was in response to someone getting dewy eyed over teenagers not being listened to. I was amused by his sense of entitlement. Point of interest there are measures that are taken to restrict the movement/behaviour of adults to pre-emptively stop them engaging in criminal or loutish behaviour. I'd be massively surprised if any of the go-getters you just mentioned spend their Saturday evenings mooching about outside Budgens drinking alchopops EVE RELATED CONTENT**
Battleclash	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:31:00 - [117] Edited by: Battleclash on 13/02/2008 22:31:49 Originally by: LUH 3471 im devoid of words I'd hate to see your posts when you have something to say! Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.14 01:16:00 - [118] Originally by: Marisal ask them... why they hang around shops, commit vandalism and violence and are generally disrespectful, if they don't give you a mouthful of abuse they'll struggle to give you a reason which usually ends up with them saying cus we've got nothing else to do. Them give them something to do. Morality aside, this device is like giving pain killers to a cancer patient: they'll look and feel better for a bit, but you gotta cut the cancer out or it keeps getting worse, even if you can't tell from the surface. What will your country be like when these punks are the mainstay of your workforce? How many of them would you trust to design a bridge or give you a prostate exam? If miscreants make up the majority of your youth, there's trouble ahead. As for rights of the victims, you have a point, but do you want to start punishing people for being in a situation where they may or may not commit a crime? What is a group of honest kids just want to hang out and chew bubblegum or whatever kids do. If there's a group of youngsters outside a shop, they must be looking for trouble. You're at a soccer match. Riots happen at soccer matches. Therefore you must be there to riot. Teargas for you! Bit of a stretch, but I think the point remains: Where do you draw the line? And what about the rights of honest kids affected by this device? The person who put the thing up is impinging on their rights, so he should have rights taken away, too, right?
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.14 11:49:00 - [119] Originally by: Brea Lafail Them give them something to do. Morality aside, this device is like giving pain killers to a cancer patient: they'll look and feel better for a bit, but you gotta cut the cancer out or it keeps getting worse, even if you can't tell from the surface. Read my posts above: Originally by: Marisal it is not as if softer tactics haven't been used before this, it is not something thats unfounded and suddenly out of the blue either, from simply asking groups to move on to providing them with facilities so they don't have to hang around in inappropriate locations all the way through to asbo's have proved ineffective en mass, in fact the asbo is seen as a badge of honour by many show's you how detached from a respectful society these groups are. Originally by: Brea Lafail What will your country be like when these punks are the mainstay of your workforce? How many of them would you trust to design a bridge or give you a prostate exam? If miscreants make up the majority of your youth, there's trouble ahead. The people that are going to become the mainstay of the workforce aren't these groups though, if their going to be the engineers and doctors they aren't hanging around shops in gangs harassing other citizens, there usually working hard to pass exams. Originally by: Brea Lafail As for rights of the victims, you have a point, but do you want to start punishing people for being in a situation where they may or may not commit a crime? What is a group of honest kids just want to hang out and chew bubblegum or whatever kids do. If there's a group of youngsters outside a shop, they must be looking for trouble. You're at a soccer match. Riots happen at soccer matches. Therefore you must be there to riot. Teargas for you! Bit of a stretch, but I think the point remains: Where do you draw the line? Quite frequently they are looking for trouble, the world is looked at with the knowledge of probability and statistics, and a group hanging around a shop harassing others is likely to commit crime. At a soccer match they increase police presence depending on the fan groups that will be attending, but wait isn't that discriminating against one team because they have a statistical higher probability that they will riot. Drawing the line, thats the point though the line is frequently shifted depending on the context of the situation, and its societies job as a whole to decide where this should be hence this whole debate. Originally by: Brea Lafail And what about the rights of honest kids affected by this device? The person who put the thing up is impinging on their rights, so he should have rights taken away, too, right? More often than not the kids are loitering on private property and the shop keeper has the right to disperse them, not to mention they can be considered as trespassing and loitering both criminal offences. Yes I agree the device is indiscriminate, I've said that several times now, but if there honest law abiding kids the chances of them been directly affect by this device are low.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.02.14 12:35:00 - [120] Originally by: TimGascoigne Linkage so is this how we are treated these days. What happend to the idea of a free and prosperous society? curfews for 16's and under have existed in many parts of the country already. Despite most teenagers being law-abiding citizens (ie me) and young crime is no higher than any other age group. why couldn't they have simply developed a device which is also applicable to the midelage? In order to balance this I think we need to release a flamethrower that only targets old people as it clings on to their white hair and will thus disburse those crowds of daily Mail readers. I'm gathering from the tone of your post, that you think this is unfair because you yourself are a teenager. Don't worry. In about five years, you'll learn what the rest of us know already... that teenagers are annoying jackasses.
Alberic Nydorm	Posted - 2008.02.14 13:05:00 - [121] It's a disgrace. Young people are being alienated because we are being tarnished with the same brush as the 'yobs'. I'm 18, have a job, goto college and am a contributive member of society. I hate these thugs, as much as the next person and something should be done about them, but this is not the answer, especially in a world so politically correct as we seem to think we are, one in which you can not even say the word blackboard. I think society likes to make this up as they go along, often contradicting there own values in the process. Would society accept the police stopping Asians for no reason and searching them, because 'they are more likely to commit terrorist acts'? Oh, wait I forgot, this already happens and its wrong, no wonder we are seeing these British born terrorists appearing. Lets barcode every new born child, implant them with a tracking device and issue them with an ID card while we are at it. This is the way things look like they are heading, every aspect of peoples lives being recorded by the state. No, this is not the solution, nor are these devices that target indiscriminately just because you happen to be young. How about the parents of these children take some responsibility? It is there job to instil respect for society into these children, but they do not, as they don't have any themselves. Why don't these so called parents know what their children are up to at night? Do they care? Its about time the parents pull their finger out and living up to their responsibilities. This does not mean blaming video games, etc for your child's behaviour but taking responsibility for their upbringing in life. Anyway.. rant over
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.14 14:18:00 - [122] Originally by: Alberic Nydorm It's a disgrace. Young people are being alienated because we are being tarnished with the same brush as the 'yobs'. I'm 18, have a job, goto college and am a contributive member of society. I hate these thugs, as much as the next person and something should be done about them, but this is not the answer, especially in a world so politically correct as we seem to think we are, one in which you can not even say the word blackboard. I think society likes to make this up as they go along, often contradicting there own values in the process. Would society accept the police stopping Asians for no reason and searching them, because 'they are more likely to commit terrorist acts'? Oh, wait I forgot, this already happens and its wrong, no wonder we are seeing these British born terrorists appearing. Lets barcode every new born child, implant them with a tracking device and issue them with an ID card while we are at it. This is the way things look like they are heading, every aspect of peoples lives being recorded by the state. Society frequently bounces back and forth redefining freedoms and liberty, its a balancing act that needs to involve the entire populace that's responsible enough to make the decisions (those of voting age) to control how far it goes and when to push back. The concept even the implementation of ID documents isn't new we had id cards during WWII because at the time they were necessary, when they weren't any longer they were dropped. If you want to go on about recording every aspect of peoples lives you can look back as far as the doomsday book. You seem to forget government does represent the people, and when the state no longer represents the majority they're usually out of power pretty quick, or the bill gets defeated by our elected representatives in more specific cases of public opposition. We have a problem these days many young people of voting age aren't exercising their right to vote this is the biggest worry for the nation because the fewer people that vote the fewer that it truly represents. Originally by: Alberic Nydorm No, this is not the solution, nor are these devices that target indiscriminately just because you happen to be young. How about the parents of these children take some responsibility? It is there job to instil respect for society into these children, but they do not, as they don't have any themselves. Why don't these so called parents know what their children are up to at night? Do they care? Its about time the parents pull their finger out and living up to their responsibilities. This does not mean blaming video games, etc for your child's behaviour but taking responsibility for their upbringing in life. Anyway.. rant over Yes indiscriminate targeting is wrong, but offer up an effective alternative that can be used that targets those specific people on mass, heck if you can make a commercial product of it that's non harmful you'd probably be a millionaire within months. You are quite right when it comes down to it its about the parents and them been responsible for their children, but again, how can we enforce this on mass effectively... answer we can't, police investigations, court cases frequently take to long only handing out token sentences because of limitations of the law on minors, and even then there's no guarantee that even jailing the parents will have any effect on the kids, I think there's an example on record of a parent simply ignoring court orders regarding the behaviour of their children. How do you make a parent responsible for their own child when they do not even care and simply flout the law themselves. Make parenting classes compulsory for anyone having a child? still no assurance that it will have any impact, the only way I can see forward on that point is to make parents completely responsible for the crimes of their children including full adult sentencing "your kid does the crime you both do the time!".
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.14 14:24:00 - [123] Originally by: Brea Lafail I agree with everything you said but this. So... you're saying that the War Measures Act (Im pretty sure there's an equivalent in the UK) should be put into force and these "chavs," or whatever you call them, should be rounded up and put in concentration camps? But, some might disguise themselves as normal kids, better lock up everone aged 12-18, that'd show those little whipper-snappers. And there would be no negative consequences of this. Well, "internment" for absolutely everybody in military barracks, or something very like it, for a couple of years (17-19?) wouldn't do much harm I'm sure. There are two reasons; first of all, what is badly lacking is a sense of discipline, and one thing old-style sergeant-majors were good at was instilling that. The other is a bit more complicated. Modern militaries definitely don't want ill-trained, undisciplined, unfit cannon-fodder - but there are all sorts of jobs that nobody wants to do for the wages the country can afford, but that need doing anyway; things like clearing canals, filling in the huge numbers of holes in various roads, clearing heaps of fly-tipped junk, cutting down brushwood in neglected land, etc. etc. Things that would have people of that sort of age putting back some of society's huge investment in them. They might even be proud of themselves afterwards. In addition, we need an end to diluted punishments for adult-scale crime committed by those called juveniles but of adult size. At least once a week, there is a report in the UK news about some innocent being beaten up/stabbed/slashed/gang-raped by some bunch of 16-19 year olds high on booze and/or drugs. And often, they get pitifully lenient punishment because they are "underage" and therefore are dealt with by youth courts. Even those over 18 often get away with it for this reason. IMHO the upper age for said courts ought to be 15 - at most. And in cases where the perpetrator of a serious crime is under this age, the parent or parents ought to go to jail as well, for dereliction of duty (said duty being bringing up their kids properly). In today's society, there is far too much talk of rights and just about no talk of duties and obligations. That's what is wrong with Western society. And to the poster who said "let's bring back corporal and capital punishment" - although you were being sarcastic, I agree. The threat of severe pain and/or death is a great deterrent. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Elles D Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.14 16:28:00 - [124] I am a teenager living in Reading in the UK and for one this doesn't really bother me. I have lived previously around the world and seen fellow mates do some prety ****** up things; heck the other day in town some 14 year old tried to mug me saying he would pull a knife, of course he evaporated when my mates walked outta the shop but you get the idea. I see this idea as pragmatic, if it saves even one life from violent youth - crime then imo it's a success; i hate the way we get a bad rep from scumsucking chavs who have nothing better to do, but if it works then meh - they are lucky they arn't just beaten into submission, this measure should be seen as restraint not violation. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.14 17:55:00 - [125] Originally by: vanBuskirk And to the poster who said "let's bring back corporal and capital punishment" - although you were being sarcastic, I agree. The threat of severe pain and/or death is a great deterrent. that would be me. and I wasn't being sarcastic really, just suggesting it in a less serious way. I think it would be better tbh, but morals and all...
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.15 07:44:00 - [126] cue 26 year old eve players taking online hearing tests to prove they are somehow better than average people, perhaps because of their genetics, and they slowly fade into fantasy land where people give a **** about them. to tha OP 'crowds of daily Mail readers'...why not crowds of guardian readers? -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
ceaon Gallente Porandor Imperium Aeternum	Posted - 2008.02.15 08:14:00 - [127] dunno how the laws work in UK but u cant sue them ? imo none can own the street usually if u make any damage under 400Ç u dont go to jail so paint shop walls BC one
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.15 08:49:00 - [128] Guardian readers can't gather in crowds. That much middle class guilt in one place is a fire hazard. Lord only knows how they manage at Coldplay concerts. EVE RELATED CONTENT
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:43:00 - [129] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 15:45:14 Originally by: Marisal Originally by: 7shining7one7 go read my reply's above, those people quoted there, knew what they were talking about. and the exact thing they warned about is what is happening. and untill you realize this, you're eating right out of the palm of their hand, cause your saying exactly what they want you to say and think. playing right into it. Your posts above are not anything but quotes(some vastly out of context) from a specific period of time that is not entirely relevant, though we have to learn from the past and these historical figures and their wisdom, we also have to acknowledge learning is an accumulative process just because something was accepted as the truth then doesn't mean it is the complete truth always. WHAT THE f kind of idiot comment is that, i mean seriously... talk about being willfully ignorant.. first of all, the quotes are NOT taken out of context, they are in chronological order and from the SAME SPEECH, which just goes to show that you didn't even bother listening to it or read it, before you posted. and then you're saying.. well jfk was just kinda nuts and it wasn't true. oh maybe it wasn't true that he got shot either, it was just all hollywood eh.. you've been drinking a little too much of your whiskey... this didn't happen 100 years ago... the rest of your quote replies i don't even want to bother answering, other than -> lol whut? / doh!. Originally by: Micheal Dietrich I was wondering when someone was gonna turn this into a US hate thread.... i was wondering when you'd get a clue. jfk wasn't anti american.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:47:00 - [130] Originally by: 7shining7one7 [Troll attempt] At least I hope you're trolling.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:51:00 - [131] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 15:51:30 Originally by: Brea Lafail Originally by: 7shining7one7 [Troll attempt] At least I hope you're trolling. actually you got it backwards, take a minute and peruse the thread. start here. just hadn't seen the thread in a while, so didn't realize it was still going, or that he had trolled me.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:54:00 - [132] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 15/02/2008 15:54:00 You seriously bring a smile to my face with each post shinnen! BTW to clarify, this thread is amount little noisemakers in the UK that drive off teenagers, Not about the US government stuff you keep posting. And I'm pretty sure Marisal isn't a conspiracy nut that thinks JFK wasn't shot just like you thought that I thought that NASA shot the mars picture in Nevada. Keep up the excellent posts! Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:59:00 - [133] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 16:05:48 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 15/02/2008 15:54:00 You seriously bring a smile to my face with each post shinnen! BTW to clarify, this thread is amount little noisemakers in the UK that drive off teenagers, Not about the US government stuff you keep posting. And I'm pretty sure Marisal isn't a conspiracy nut that thinks JFK wasn't shot just like you thought that I thought that NASA shot the mars picture in Nevada. Keep up the excellent posts! and you bring a smile to my face when you try to say that what happens in the US doesn't affect the world. there has been a direct correlation with the laws being passed in the US and the laws being passed in the UK and other places. including proposals like the one brought forward in the op. and it's amusing how you fail to neglect that jfk said that this conspiracy was worldwide, not just in the US. but it's so convenient to throw tinfoil comments around when you don't have a clue about what ppl like jfk actually said, and don't want to go into analyzing it because you can't simply explain it away. (sucks don't it?) michael, you and me, we're done. you bore me mr. monotone. you're about as interesting to talk to as it is talking to a brick wall. and you allways try some kind of troll attempt because you're bored and unsatisfied at work or whatever.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:27:00 - [134] As a matter of fact I know what JFK said. He had the qualities to be possibly the greatest president that this country could have ever seen had it not been for his assassination leaving us with Johnson. With JFK in the seat it is possible that there could have been no vietnam. His assassination nearly sent us into a WW3 because of the coldwar with Russia. All of that means squat right now cause we're talking about shop owners in the UK putting up little speakers that emit a frequency like you used to hear on tv's that scatters crowds of kids. Try to stay on topic. If you want to bash America so bad theres another gun thread on page 1. The only conspiracies that appear come from you sir. The rest of us are just talking about how stupid the idea is that all teenagers must suffer because of a certain group of troublemakers. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:39:00 - [135] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich As a matter of fact I know what JFK said. He had the qualities to be possibly the greatest president that this country could have ever seen had it not been for his assassination leaving us with Johnson. With JFK in the seat it is possible that there could have been no vietnam. His assassination nearly sent us into a WW3 because of the coldwar with Russia. All of that means squat right now cause we're talking about shop owners in the UK putting up little speakers that emit a frequency like you used to hear on tv's that scatters crowds of kids. Try to stay on topic. If you want to bash America so bad theres another gun thread on page 1. The only conspiracies that appear come from you sir. The rest of us are just talking about how stupid the idea is that all teenagers must suffer because of a certain group of troublemakers. atleast now your not trolling but starting to make sense, so i'll reply to it. i'm not bashing america, i like americans, i like the american people, i do not like the worldwide secret cabal, that has nothing to with the united states or the UK or any other country, the only allegiance it has is to itself and it's increased power and influence. this is the secret cabal that jfk talked about before he was killed. and he indeed was a great president for the united states. it's highly amusing that you say that the conspiraces comes from me sir, since i have merely quoted jfk's own words. a president you yourself have said you held in high esteem. it is very much on topic, things like these are the purpousful dissasociation and segregation of ppl from society, and instead of solving these problems, the "solutions" offered up are guns and devices that causes further problems and further segregation and dissasociation with politics, and with the teenagers own lives and with the rest of society. i have said nothing to give headway to a conclusion that i somehow want to endorse such foul domestic politics such as this proposal, i have said plenty to state the exact opposite, that it is a bad idea, and provided further background for understanding why it's a bad idea, and the reasons why things like these are being proposed to give a perspective for understanding what is going on, and why it is not a coincidence.
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.15 20:47:00 - [136] Originally by: 7shining7one7 stuff. You've started mixing threads this isn't the anti gun one this is the anti teenager device one. more to come in a bit
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 21:05:00 - [137] Originally by: Marisal Originally by: 7shining7one7 stuff. You've started mixing threads this isn't the anti gun one this is the anti teenager device one. more to come in a bit He does that a lot. Hell, half the time you type something he'll totally re-arrange your paragraph so it says the opposite of what you originally stated. Then he calls you names. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:01:00 - [138] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 22:07:19 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Marisal Originally by: 7shining7one7 stuff. You've started mixing threads this isn't the anti gun one this is the anti teenager device one. more to come in a bit He does that a lot. Hell, half the time you type something he'll totally re-arrange your paragraph so it says the opposite of what you originally stated. Then he calls you names. that's rich coming from you dietrich, you were the one who brought the gun thread into this and called me anti american (said i bashed americans). to which i replied the above, which you then critizise me for talking about guns which you brought up. oh the hypocracy... you create a problem, then you blame someone else for it ,and then hope everyone believes that it's the other guys fault and then calls it a day. not this time. also marisal = obvious alt poaster.
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:25:00 - [139] Originally by: 7shining7one7 stuff. The reason I picked apart your quotations of JFK and franklin are because of a) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin 7th bullet point of the sourced article segment. Context of a quotation is incredibly important on defining its meaning otherwise you can make quotations say the complete opposite of what the quoted person actually meant, this is especially notorious in politics where people will quote a segment of a speech or document which causes controversy and use it to attack someone, were when reading the entire document and putting the quoted part into context the controversy goes away because it means something completely different. The same could be true of the JFK speech, are you sure that is the complete speech there? Think about what was going on in the world at the time it happened, height of the cold war, the march of communism the quite real fear at the time that the American people were afraid communists were in their midsts in their own country, that speech could quite easily be about communism, if George Bush said it today it could also be applied to the extremist organisations. Open your eyes and make the judgements for yourself not what you are told in speeches and quotations. Also if there are world wide massive conspiracy you think there wouldn't have been at least one or two whistle blowers over time, heck even the tightest held military and government secrets haven't lasted longer than a few decades at most, but if there is a conspiracy of such grand a scale then simply we don't stand a chance, because even those armed in the US raising arms against the rest of the world simply wouldn't be enough, because the conspiracy would be infiltrated at every level.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:27:00 - [140] See, I rest my case. I too told him that theres a different thread but yet he brings the gun issue to this thread instead of going to that thread. He posts anti-american messages although he claims to love Americans: Originally by: Shining One gb senior gives his speech announcing the "new world order". gb junior declares war without congressional approval (directly against the constitution) gb junior says "let's not tolerate conspiracy theories, malicious lies that intends to switch the blame away from the terrorists, away from the guilty" gb junior gives his new world order speech gb junior pardons himself from warcrimes. gb junior says "it would be much easier if this was a dictatorship, just as long as i'm the dictator chuckles" global id bill is attempted to be passed. WAKE THE F'CK UP in a thread about UK issues which we pointed out, multiple times. Then he calls me a liar and insults you. So mixing threads = check mixing words = check name calling = check Looks like I was dead on. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:30:00 - [141] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 22:32:08 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich See, I rest my case. I too told him that theres a different thread but yet he brings the gun issue to this thread instead of going to that thread. He posts anti-american messages although he claims to love Americans: Originally by: Shining One gb senior gives his speech announcing the "new world order". gb junior declares war without congressional approval (directly against the constitution) gb junior says "let's not tolerate conspiracy theories, malicious lies that intends to switch the blame away from the terrorists, away from the guilty" gb junior gives his new world order speech gb junior pardons himself from warcrimes. gb junior says "it would be much easier if this was a dictatorship, just as long as i'm the dictator chuckles" global id bill is attempted to be passed. WAKE THE F'CK UP in a thread about UK issues which we pointed out, multiple times. Then he calls me a liar and insults you. So mixing threads = check mixing words = check name calling = check Looks like I was dead on. you were a liar you brought up the gun thread and called me anti american. and then flame me for replying to it, that's called flamebait and you do it all the time. not liking what bush does is not anti american PARTICULARLY not in the context i was referring to those things in, which you neatly extracted those comments out of... talk about misquoting.. you just did it right there to fit your own agenda of flaming ppl.. not agreeing with bush is pro common sense. that man and his cohorts like rumsfeldt et al have been caught lying about so many things it's incredible. you may delude yourself that americans love bush but that just goes to show you that you really don't get out much.
Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:33:00 - [142] Back on topic guys, both of you have your right to express your opinion even if its not to the liking of someone else.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:35:00 - [143] Originally by: Marisal Also if there are world wide massive conspiracy you think there wouldn't have been at least one or two whistle blowers over time, heck even the tightest held military and government secrets haven't lasted longer than a few decades at most, but if there is a conspiracy of such grand a scale then simply we don't stand a chance, because even those armed in the US raising arms against the rest of the world simply wouldn't be enough, because the conspiracy would be infiltrated at every level. oh there's been a lot of whistle blowers, you just can't lean back and expect to hear their stories on cnn because the media is deeply imbedded in it. well you nailed it pretty good there, don't have much more to say than, there is a chance. there definately is. and it's not the US against the rest of the world, the whole world is being pushed towards it, same laws different ppl, same secret proceedings, different places.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:36:00 - [144] Originally by: Marisal Back on topic guys, both of you have your right to express your opinion even if its not to the liking of someone else. exactly i just don't like the guy making up crap to try and throw dirt on me. let's talk about it instead, all he's done is throw dirt or say others are talking crap.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:47:00 - [145] Originally by: 7shining7one7 you were a liar you brought up the gun thread There really is a gun thread on page 1, no lie Originally by: 7shining7one7 and called me anti american. Well you are the one showing video's saying that the twin towers are a government conspiracy. you are the one telling people that you DONT have to fill out your taxes (BTW have you done yours yet?) You are the one posting all that anti-bush stuff as posted above. You are the one that attacks American troops and call them psychopathic mass murderers That doesn't sound very 'patriotic' if you ask me. Originally by: 7shining7one7 and then flame me for replying to it, that's called flamebait and you do it all the time. Says the guy who always insulting people who don't agree with him. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 22:55:00 - [146] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: 7shining7one7 you were a liar you brought up the gun thread There really is a gun thread on page 1, no lie Originally by: 7shining7one7 and called me anti american. Well you are the one showing video's saying that the twin towers are a government conspiracy. you are the one telling people that you DONT have to fill out your taxes (BTW have you done yours yet?) You are the one posting all that anti-bush stuff as posted above. You are the one that attacks American troops and call them psychopathic mass murderers That doesn't sound very 'patriotic' if you ask me. Originally by: 7shining7one7 and then flame me for replying to it, that's called flamebait and you do it all the time. Says the guy who always insulting people who don't agree with him. more spin eh.. and more lies too! amazing. yes i know there is a gun thread.. but YOU brought guns up in the first place by saying so.. i HAD NOT even mentioned the gun issue whatsoever. YOU DID! i said that the irs might be unconstitutional since it was never ratified according to the law, but was just passed because they assumed the parties that did not participate in that part probably would've said yes. but that's a whole different story and there's a lot more to it aswell. anti bush? well considering that 70% or more of the american ppl are against the war, and think that bush is somewhat of an idiot, i don't see anything wrong with that. i have not at any point attacked american troops, i've said if you want to support the troops you bring them home instead of letting them die due to the iraqi's being quite ****ed that they got invaded by the US and that the US now refuses to leave, and have private contractors steal all their businesses. i never at any point called the troopers psychopatic mass murderers, the thread you were referring to was me replying to you saying the US should have a draft so you would go down there and kill them, and that you didn't really care if there were any proof regarding if they were innocent or not, to which i said you didn't deserve to wear a uniform. that was about YOU not all soldiers.. but you do like to generalize don't you, especially when you're misrepresenting and lying about things said in order to troll.. you wouldn't know patriotism if it slapped you in the back of the head. you know what soldiers swear? to protect against enemies both foreign and domestic. oh yeah and the little bit about the CONSTITUTION which ensures freedom and liberty. since bush has removed most of that through various bills he's passed including haebas corpus, that makes him a domestic enemy to freedom and liberty. but you do like to troll..
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:09:00 - [147] Quote: more spin eh.. and more lies too! amazing. yes i know there is a gun thread.. but YOU brought guns up in the first place by saying so.. i HAD NOT even mentioned the gun issue whatsoever. YOU DID! Aye I did bring up the fact that there is a gun thread and you should post your anti-american beliefs there instead of muddying the waters of this thread which was really great until page 4 (ironically when you showed up) Quote: i said that the irs might be unconstitutional since it was never ratified according to the law, but was just passed because they assumed the parties that did not participate in that part probably would've said yes. but that's a whole different story and there's a lot more to it aswell. It was not just passed. It's been a law for as long as I've been alive and longer yet. My father is a ex-accountant who still does taxes for people, my mother is a state tax auditor. I know quite a bit about taxes and hear really funny stories about people like you. Quote: i have not at any point attacked american troops, i've said if you want to support the troops you bring them home instead of letting them die due to the iraqi's being quite **ed that they got invaded by the US and that the US now refuses to leave, and have private contractors steal all their businesses. the troops are some of the bravest people in the world, they are willing to go to war and get killed to protect idiots like yourself so you can continue to spew your nonsense. they should be respected in the highest of esteem and they should not be sent to war unless there is a DAMN GOOD AND SUBSTANTIATED REASON TO! maybe you should try listening to a real soldier for once. life isn't some idiot video game, you don't just respawn when you get a bullet in the head. nor do the families who loose their fathers and mothers get them back. i never at any point called the troopers psychopatic mass murderers, the thread you were referring to was me replying to you saying the US should have a draft so you would go down there and blow stuff up, and that you didn't really care if there were any proof regarding if they were innocent or not, to which i said you didn't deserve to wear a uniform. Which again you twist my words. Oh how many times have I said that a draft is the only way I can get in so I can help my brothers in arms. By the way you did call surfin a psychopathic mass murderer and it's been said plenty a time that he's in the marines. So full of irony that entire block is. Quote:** but you do like to troll.. Says the guy who has ruined the thread which will most likely get locked now. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:14:00 - [148] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 23:18:34 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Quote: more spin eh.. and more lies too! amazing. yes i know there is a gun thread.. but YOU brought guns up in the first place by saying so.. i HAD NOT even mentioned the gun issue whatsoever. YOU DID! Aye I did bring up the fact that there is a gun thread and you should post your anti-american beliefs there instead of muddying the waters of this thread which was really great until page 4 (ironically when you showed up) Quote: i said that the irs might be unconstitutional since it was never ratified according to the law, but was just passed because they assumed the parties that did not participate in that part probably would've said yes. but that's a whole different story and there's a lot more to it aswell. It was not just passed. It's been a law for as long as I've been alive and longer yet. My father is a ex-accountant who still does taxes for people, my mother is a state tax auditor. I know quite a bit about taxes and hear really funny stories about people like you. Quote: i have not at any point attacked american troops, i've said if you want to support the troops you bring them home instead of letting them die due to the iraqi's being quite **ed that they got invaded by the US and that the US now refuses to leave, and have private contractors steal all their businesses. the troops are some of the bravest people in the world, they are willing to go to war and get killed to protect idiots like yourself so you can continue to spew your nonsense. they should be respected in the highest of esteem and they should not be sent to war unless there is a DAMN GOOD AND SUBSTANTIATED REASON TO! maybe you should try listening to a real soldier for once. life isn't some idiot video game, you don't just respawn when you get a bullet in the head. nor do the families who loose their fathers and mothers get them back. i never at any point called the troopers psychopatic mass murderers, the thread you were referring to was me replying to you saying the US should have a draft so you would go down there and blow stuff up, and that you didn't really care if there were any proof regarding if they were innocent or not, to which i said you didn't deserve to wear a uniform. Which again you twist my words. Oh how many times have I said that a draft is the only way I can get in so I can help my brothers in arms. By the way you did call surfin a psychopathic mass murderer and it's been said plenty a time that he's in the marines. So full of irony that entire block is. Quote:** but you do like to troll.. Says the guy who has ruined the thread which will most likely get locked now. i remember that thread QUITE well since you and surfin plunderbooty went on a rampage and started flaming but NOWHERE did i call surfin a psychopathic mass murderer.. do a f'ing evesearch you smack talking bjtch.. you're a lying f'ing hypocrit. and you've been the one flaming and tossing dirt and now you want me to take the blame for it.. damn you should go and become a ass sucking politician and toss the uniform ideas instead.. seems like that's more your alley. i have high respect for surfin wearing the uniform, what i don't have respect for is people like you tossing around nonsense and suggesting that soldiers should risk their lives without a just cause. that's insane. what i did say was that if you have that "idiot video game" attitude that you exhuded in that thread and others, then you don't deserve to wear the uniform, you don't live up to the responsibility of being a soldier then. and that's quite true. cause mentality like THAT is of a mass murdering psychopath, a real soldiers mentality is different. try getting that into your thick skull. and you dare call other people unpatriotic, you should be ashamed. people like you are the reason they are still down there dying for no just cause.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:20:00 - [149] Originally by: 7shining7one7 i remember that thread QUITE well since you and surfin plunderbooty went on a rampage and started flaming but NOWHERE did i call surfin a psychopathic mass murderer.. do a f'ing evesearch you smack talking bjtch.. you're a lying f'ing hypocrit. and you've been the one flaming and tossing dirt and now you want me to take the blame for it.. damn you should go and become a ass sucking politician and toss the uniform ideas instead.. seems like that's more your alley. Does anyone else see something wrong with this Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:26:00 - [150] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 23:27:50 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: 7shining7one7 i remember that thread QUITE well since you and surfin plunderbooty went on a rampage and started flaming but NOWHERE did i call surfin a psychopathic mass murderer.. do a f'ing evesearch you smack talking bjtch.. you're a lying f'ing hypocrit. and you've been the one flaming and tossing dirt and now you want me to take the blame for it.. damn you should go and become a ass sucking politician and toss the uniform ideas instead.. seems like that's more your alley. Does anyone else see something wrong with this "ahahahahaha ah ha.." dietrich your trolling and trolling and you might get a few ******s to nod their heads and agree with the way you conduct yourself.. just look back in the thread how you've contributed nothing but trolling and misrepresenting stuff.. as you allways do, your a boring individual that way. but don't be fooled and think that the majority don't see you for what kind of person you really are. a dumb lying f'ing hypocrite. go pat yourself on the back for that one. and go see what a real soldier thinks about ppl like you. you know the soldiers you are so eager to go join and think you actually know something about.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:30:00 - [151] How I conduct myself eh? You keep saying that I'm the troll and yet you've been name calling, insulting, and bashing since this started. Whatever happened to the shining who first came to oope quoting scriptures and saying how he loved everybody? Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:33:00 - [152] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 23:34:17 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich How I conduct myself eh? You keep saying that I'm the troll and yet you've been name calling, insulting, and bashing since this started. Whatever happened to the shining who first came to oope quoting scriptures and saying how he loved everybody? i do, but there's gonna be no peace in the world unless scumbags like yourself changes into something better that makes them easier to love. your like a big rusted roadblock in the road of progress to novelty.. and you've become so blind that you forgot how to move, so somebody's gotta push you forward so you go from believing your own bullsjit to actually facing reality and contributing with something good for a change.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:37:00 - [153] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 23:34:17 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich How I conduct myself eh? You keep saying that I'm the troll and yet you've been name calling, insulting, and bashing since this started. Whatever happened to the shining who first came to oope quoting scriptures and saying how he loved everybody? i do, but there's gonna be no peace in the world unless scumbags like yourself changes into something better that makes them easier to love. your like a big rusted roadblock in the road of progress to novelty.. and you've become so blind that you forgot how to move, so somebody's gotta push you forward so you go from believing your own bullsjit to actually facing reality and contributing with something good for a change. I just have a hard time believing though that a giant planet is gonna come around the sun and drop off an alien race that'll lead us to redemption though. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:41:00 - [154] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 23:44:09 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 23:34:17 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich How I conduct myself eh? You keep saying that I'm the troll and yet you've been name calling, insulting, and bashing since this started. Whatever happened to the shining who first came to oope quoting scriptures and saying how he loved everybody? i do, but there's gonna be no peace in the world unless scumbags like yourself changes into something better that makes them easier to love. your like a big rusted roadblock in the road of progress to novelty.. and you've become so blind that you forgot how to move, so somebody's gotta push you forward so you go from believing your own bullsjit to actually facing reality and contributing with something good for a change. I just have a hard time believing though that a giant planet is gonna come around the sun and drop off an alien race that'll lead us to redemption though. more flamebait and lying, evesearch it hypocrite.. i didn't start that thread called "is this for real". i replied some of the popular interpretations of that theory from an objective viewpoint and i also said that it most likely was destroyed if it existed in the first place. and... looking at it now, you really don't want me to dig up your comments from that thread worn you down so far that all you can do is take cheap shots by multi cross threading comments, thanks for the compliment!
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:43:00 - [155] You didn't wear me down one bit and I know you didn't start that thread. The planet X threads come and go all the time but I was particulary amused your comments of a alien race overthrowing the evil governments I gotta say though, I miss Jimmy. He was much better at this stuff. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:45:00 - [156] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 15/02/2008 23:46:17 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You didn't wear me down one bit and I know you didn't start that thread. The planet X threads come and go all the time but I was particulary amused your comments of a alien race overthrowing the evil governments I gotta say though, I miss Jimmy. He was much better at this stuff. hah! i never wrote that in the thread. your memory is as poor as the rest of your cognitive skills. only surpassed by your ignorance. when reality finally sinks in on you you'll be like a whimpy kid crawling in the corner unable to cope. don't say nobody tried to help.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:58:00 - [157] Unfortunatly I remember a ton about you as we always get into these little ** fights. Your character has changed so many times and yet your still pretictable. When you first showed up you were all lovey like, quoting scriptures to everyone, and being the holy one but I seem to have **ed you off when I mentioned rule #7. Then you went on with the conspiracy theories for a while and talking about landings and such and again got mad when I started calling you Jim (which I take back as that's a complete insult to Jimmy boy himself) And now your on your anti-american stretch in which you gave and my first ever @post because you managed to get the draft thread locked, and I thank you for making me the envy of fellow oope members that day. These wars will never stop with you. You twist every little thing, you take back what you say before or claim you never said it, you insult people left n right. You post your tin hattery information and slander everything else. Your a bad man. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:00:00 - [158] You two at it again? geeez. Get a room
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:03:00 - [159] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 16/02/2008 00:04:53 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Unfortunatly I remember a ton about you as we always get into these little ** fights. Your character has changed so many times and yet your still pretictable. When you first showed up you were all lovey like, quoting scriptures to everyone, and being the holy one but I seem to have ed you off when I mentioned rule #7. Then you went on with the conspiracy theories for a while and talking about landings and such and again got mad when I started calling you Jim (which I take back as that's a complete insult to Jimmy boy himself) And now your on your anti-american stretch in which you gave and my first ever @post because you managed to get the draft thread locked, and I thank you for making me the envy of fellow oope members that day. These wars will never stop with you. You twist every little thing, you take back what you say before or claim you never said it, you insult people left n right. You post your tin hattery information and slander everything else. Your a bad man. you'll have a mental breakdown when you realize just what you have caused with your perpetuation of the ignorance you spew.. not to mention how much you have lied.. you can try run from it but sooner or later your gonna have to square with it. you've trolled so much but never provided any evidence to justify the things you've said. cause 99.9% of the time you can't. you just say it as if it were true. that should be your motto: Michael dietrich: I say it like it is true, eventhough i have no evidence that it is. that's what we in psychology call a self enforced delusion, or simply, someone believing their own bull** cause they've said it so many times. the bad man comment was the icing on the cake and envy is a powerful thing, you should know, you've become the epitomy of it.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:08:00 - [160] Originally by: 7shining7one7 you'll have a mental breakdown when you realize just what you have caused with your perpetuation of the ignorance you spew.. not to mention how much you have lied.. you can try run from it but sooner or later your gonna have to square with it. you've trolled so much but never provided any evidence to justify the things you've said. cause 99.9% of the time you can't. the bad man comment was the icing on the cake and envy is a powerful thing, you should know, you've become the epitomy of it. I coulda sworn I saw a comment up above with you saying that you were done. You can't give up, it's not in you And your mixing envy with pity again. I certainly would never wish I could be like you. And I have given proof many a time over but unfortunatly when argueing with a tin foil master I know it is impossible to win as your type never accepts actual logic and always resort to saying we 'lie' and presume to call us names. Like I said, this will never end. You have too much pride Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:10:00 - [161] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 16/02/2008 00:13:22 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: 7shining7one7 you'll have a mental breakdown when you realize just what you have caused with your perpetuation of the ignorance you spew.. not to mention how much you have lied.. you can try run from it but sooner or later your gonna have to square with it. you've trolled so much but never provided any evidence to justify the things you've said. cause 99.9% of the time you can't. the bad man comment was the icing on the cake and envy is a powerful thing, you should know, you've become the epitomy of it. I coulda sworn I saw a comment up above with you saying that you were done. You can't give up, it's not in you And your mixing envy with pity again. I certainly would never wish I could be like you. And I have given proof many a time over but unfortunatly when argueing with a tin foil master I know it is impossible to win as your type never accepts actual logic and always resort to saying we 'lie' and presume to call us names. Like I said, this will never end. You have too much pride you've written plenty of words, but none of them contained any proof other than "he said so but i "can't find where he said it"" type of comments. not really, just wanted to end it the way it was supposed to, and it is hereby done. offered you some things for self reflection, and watching you "will he mess himself up again or will he get it right this time" it's allways a kicker.. but in your case unfortunately it was same old same old.. you're fooling no one but yourself. take care little mr. loner wannabe nice guy / internet sociopath. you want to be sooo strong but you are really soo weak, why do you think that is? you'll find out.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:13:00 - [162] Originally by: 7shining7one7 you've written plenty of words, but none of them contained any proof other than "he said so but i "can't find where he said it"" type of comments. not really, just wanted to end it the way it was supposed to, and it is hereby done. offered you some things for self reflection, and watching you "will he mess himself up again or will he get it right this time" it's allways a kicker.. but in your case unfortunately it was same old same old.. take care Hmm must've missed all the links I've posted over time. Strange how that blindness affects you. I sometimes wonder though if anyone ever takes you seriously. Granted one of your threads can stay open for more than an hour.... Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!

CCP Mitnal	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:49:00 - [163] Please remember to post on-topic and with respect towards fellow users. Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang


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