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Invincibilty and the set-up

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DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:22:00 - [1] I have been asked by many friends and enemies how the hell I did that! What I mean is grt into as situation and completely control the field even being outnumbered 10 to 1, jammed and webbed. Now this isn't to boost my ego, this is to hopefully point out to CCP some faults in their game. Laides and Gentlemen I introduce to you the Machariel. Fitting - Highs - 4x 425 autos / 2x 650 autos / 1x Selynne's nuet / 1x DG Cloak Mids - 1x Gist MWD / 1x Domi web / 1x Domi Dirupt / 1x TS Cap Booster / 1x ECCM Lows - 2x Core X LAR / 2x Corpum A EANM / 1x DCU / 2x Domi Overdrives 3x Polycarbs Speed implant set What this ship can do with a claymore in gang. near 600 dps / 15km/sec / tank 800 dps (1100) overloaded. This version... Engage large gangs that are slow. It allows you do decent damage while speed tanking, being warry of rapiers and huginns and hyenas. However when the field shrinks, bum rush the webbers and gank them with an overloaded web and a tank that will laugh at them. Now if you choose to switch out the projectiles for cruise like I have atm, then it allows you to add 2 more nos / nuets. Yes your dps is crap but overtime Battleships will fall, and smaller ships like recons die fast. With the cruise set-up - Jammed? - Rush the jammer load fof's..... bump it until it dies. Webbed? - lol well that why I have nuets that can reach 36 and 39km. Nuet until you can get close enough to kill, or until you can warp, or mwd away. The idea is to speed tank until you get caught and the armor tank will hold until the tacklers are dead or nueted. Currently there are several pirate groups in Jan and Nalvula that can attest to how overpowered speed ships can be. So until the game is fixed and nano****s are dead, I will continue to exploit these fast ships 8). WildCat
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:25:00 - [2] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:25:31 Orange text... hurts... eyes... ----------------------------------------------- á Unlike popular belief the 'Magic wand of fixing' is not powered by forum whines.
Vexom Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:29:00 - [3] Edited by: Vexom on 17/02/2008 16:29:34 Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:25:31 Orange text... hurts... eyes... Unnecessary posts.. hurts... eyes Nad why post about a ship that you can exploit, surely you want it to last forever
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:32:00 - [4] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 17/02/2008 16:34:23 The orange is still annoying, also because it's the same color as moderated posts. Also: this is how to lose a Machariel Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:34:00 - [5] arent you guys used to it yet? Its not changing, get used to it, or Ill start putting Warnings orange text it titles 8) lol. WildCat
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:36:00 - [6] Alright already! I'll try to be more constructive :). Sure, the setup posted can be considered to be "overpowered" but it's also fairly expensive. Here's to hoping you wont get trapped and slaughtered . ----------------------------------------------- á Unlike popular belief the 'Magic wand of fixing' is not powered by forum whines.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:39:00 - [7] holy eff. why is this going 15km/s? thats FAST oO and it tanks too ffs! oh, and, ye, orange text sucks
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:46:00 - [8] holy crap that's so overpowred. now everyone is going to be using these setups woot and then hopefully CCP will do something about it.
Alex Shurk	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:47:00 - [9] Shouldnt this be in ships and modules. And also shouldnt this NOT BE IN A BLINDINGLY ****E COLOUR?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:51:00 - [10] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... --- Its dead, Jim.
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:54:00 - [11] According to EFT the ship would be going 4706KM/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me. ----------------------------------------------- á
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:57:26 According to EFT the ship would be going 4706KM/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me, care to elaborate? offline the cloak
Pharos Dei Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.02.17 17:10:00 - [13] well this setup is not a novelty, its been around for ages and effective as every.. nanoships suck etc etc, but its only one side of the medal using nanoships myself i know what youre talking about and i agree that it sucks to be on the unnanoed end, however aslong there is no counter to lol 10vs1 idiot blobs removing nanoships would equal a big chunk opf pvpers leaving... for good reason.. nerf nano indeed, but nerf blobs first..
ExcellciuM Exair Industries United Connection's	Posted - 2008.02.17 17:15:00 - [14] Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:57:26 According to EFT the ship would be going 4706KM/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me, care to elaborate? offline the cloak and add a fully skilled claymore pilot and snake implants.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.17 17:19:00 - [15] /me waves at DHB...been a while since you were chilling in 46DP- . Last night a Machariel about ran me down....in my Vagabond . He was doing around 6900 m/s (to my approx 5700 m/s). I thought it was pretty cool until I saw just how close he got to overloaded neut range. First time I had seen one. I want one now . I think its a fair enough ship. Not many can afford/fly it in the first place and VERY few have DHB's bottomless wallet either. And subject to an expensive bit of blowing up at the hands of a clued up Rapier/Huginn-led gang. At least it ain't stabbed . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 20:05:16 Originally by: ExcellciuM Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:57:26 According to EFT the ship would be going 4706m/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me, care to elaborate? offline the cloak and add a fully skilled claymore pilot and snake implants. Fitted with two Domi OD's and a Gist MWD and three Polycarbons the Mach travels at the earlier mentioned speed(4706m/s) -- Snakes and V skilled gang bonuses do not add another 10km/s. ----------------------------------------------- á
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:14:00 - [17] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 20:15:28 Anyway! Regardless of the yet to be clarified speeds this ship would be going the concept is silly. People are trying to turn something slow and slug by nature into a Interceptor wannabe. While this might be a cool gimmick for a while it'll also cost you 4+ billion in ISK per ship, and atleast two fully level V skilled members to pull it off. Worth it? Not really. Should CCP spend any time on fixing the situation? Not really, there are more pressing matters they could fix - and if people feel like blowing their ISK this way? Why not? ----------------------------------------------- á
Pharos Dei Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Osku Rei Anyway! Regardless of the yet to be clarified speeds this ship would be going the concept is silly. People are trying to turn something slow and slug by nature into a Interceptor wannabe. While this might be a cool gimmick for a while it'll also cost you 4+ billion in ISK per ship, and atleast two fully level V skilled members to pull it off. Worth it? Not really. right.... btw what you were missing was overloading the mwd... and yes 4b are worth it, or atleast to lots of us vets eho are only looking for decent pvp nowdays since weve got isk and ships we need... but as stated before the probelm is not the macha or nanos its the blobs.... remove both and eve will be better than ever..
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:17:00 - [19] Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 20:22:48 speed tanking is ridiculously broken and ccp hasn't acknowledged it yet You shouldn't need a rapier inty and 2 BS to kill a mach. No amount of isk justifies it. IMO the problem is snake sets. If snake sets are balanced then I guess it wouldn't be unbalanced to have a set that powerful for everything in the game. Like how about a set that makes all your shots score a wreaking blow on 15km/s machs. Thats balanced amirite cause it would cost a lot of isk.
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:29:00 - [20] It doesn't bother me that a ship that costs that much should be pure pwnage, although the speed seems a little overboard. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 20:33:30 Originally by: Pharos Dei but as stated before the probelm is not the macha or nanos its the blobs.... remove both and eve will be better than ever.. I'm inclined to agree with you on that, but ultimatly it is not what this thread started out with and thus i'm still replying towards the speed 'issues' with the Mach . Note: Although blob-warfare could be (alot) more interesting in a control environment when deployed versus POS / Outposts only. Whenever someone comes up with a decent solution to counter blob-warfare in situation where small gang-warfare would be more appropriate they'll have my support. Personally i once thought of the game creating a "spacial rift" once a encounter has been engaged, preventing "Warp to member" abilities after a certain time(timer countdown?). This would allow for decent fights without more and more hostiles warping ontop of you. Edit: Readability changes. ----------------------------------------------- á
Flamewave Contempt.	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:53:00 - [22] Full snake set + rogue implants + zor's hyperlink + perfect skills on this setup gives 8175m/s. Throw in a claymore and it goes up to 11.2km/s. Overload the MWD and you're looking at 16.4km/s. Throwing on a T2 polycarb brings it up to 17.4km/s. Regardless, you're looking at spending what could fit an entire fleet of ships just for this ship and its claymore booster. IMHO speed tanking should be nerfed across the board, but singling out omgwtf setups like this for specific nerfs would be silly. __________
The Herrick Gallente Bumsax United	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:57:00 - [23] Would've thought you'd have the smokescreen cloak if your gonna spend that much money on it. Don't it have something crazy like 0 penalty to lock time?
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.17 21:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... I thought that was the point of faction too. 90% of nano ships aren't nearly as fast or tanked as well ------------ Originally by: Praxis1452 you win eve
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.17 21:52:00 - [25] Originally by: The Herrick Would've thought you'd have the smokescreen cloak if your gonna spend that much money on it. Don't it have something crazy like 0 penalty to lock time? The smokescreen cloak is a covops one.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:06:00 - [26] Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 22:08:44 Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... I thought that was the point of faction too. 90% of nano ships aren't nearly as fast or tanked as well Other people play this game besides rich EvE tycoons. Not everyone has 100 billion isk and just arbitrarily decides to go with non faction setups cause we are cheapskates. You can't even gain such a large advantage in games like wow (criticized by eve players as being no-skill loot grinds) by playing so much. I play more, I started playing at day one, for 10 hours a day, did all the right things to bend the market in my favor, have limitless isk supply, blah blah blah. Should that buy me something like this? I know everything in eve had diminishing returns after a point, and it gets much more expensive for another 5%, and another 5%, to the point where you've got so many 5% that it results in 15km/s battleship. How many of these should there be? At some point there should be a line drawn, to say OK, hold up, that battleship is going way too goddamn fast, missiles can't even hit you anymore, destroyers cant even track you anymore. Going fast is fun, I know, I have an inty and its a blast, its addicting. And so people like to pretend that this kind of power is ok cause it costs a lot. What do you say when every wolfpack in eve is a nano gang, zooming around at untrackable speeds? Its ok cause they have a lot of isk? So the people with a lot of isk should just own the **** out of everything because of it? Sounds an awful lot like everquest/wow mentality.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:40:00 - [27] Originally by: HarderThisTime Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 22:08:44 Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... I thought that was the point of faction too. 90% of nano ships aren't nearly as fast or tanked as well Other people play this game besides rich EvE tycoons. Not everyone has 100 billion isk and just arbitrarily decides to go with non faction setups cause we are cheapskates. You can't even gain such a large advantage in games like wow (criticized by eve players as being no-skill loot grinds) by playing so much. I play more, I started playing at day one, for 10 hours a day, did all the right things to bend the market in my favor, have limitless isk supply, blah blah blah. Should that buy me something like this? I know everything in eve had diminishing returns after a point, and it gets much more expensive for another 5%, and another 5%, to the point where you've got so many 5% that it results in 15km/s battleship. How many of these should there be? At some point there should be a line drawn, to say OK, hold up, that battleship is going way too goddamn fast, missiles can't even hit you anymore, destroyers cant even track you anymore. Going fast is fun, I know, I have an inty and its a blast, its addicting. And so people like to pretend that this kind of power is ok cause it costs a lot. What do you say when every wolfpack in eve is a nano gang, zooming around at untrackable speeds? Its ok cause they have a lot of isk? So the people with a lot of isk should just own the **** out of everything because of it? Sounds an awful lot like everquest/wow mentality. QFT it isn't Isk Online.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:58:00 - [28] Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 17/02/2008 23:00:10 This horribly expensive ship setup is only good at killing people who don't know how to fit their ships, or for running away. The second someone throws a cap injector onto a Huginn/Rapier or brings a Neut-Apoc/Curse/whatever, there's gonna be some trouble. Nanos work because people are too stubborn to counter them and insist CCP remove them from the game instead. And for those who are saying 'zomg nanos overpowered!'; that setup costs almost 9000m ISK. Would you rather face one poor-DPS nano-Machariel that will drop awesome loot, 10 fully fitted Carriers, or 140+ gank/plated Armageddons? If ISK did not matter, everyone and their dog would be flying a Titan/Mothership and EVE would be dead. It's a joke to say it should have no effect on balance. If you spend 100x more on your ship than the other guy, then you should have an advantage over them. This isn't Hello Kitty Online, deal with it.
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:58:00 - [29] Personnally I think flat out nerfing nano ships will cause a lot of problems just trying to balance it out with the variations you can put on a ship. Not sure if this would be easier to code but this would allow CCP to be very specific in the nerfing process. Every ship has a max speed. you excede that speed and you start incurring hull damage. So farther you push a ship past its max rating the higher the hull damage rate. So you could push it for short periods and compinsate somewhat using a hull repper but you push to much and your ship goes POP from the inside out. Allows for limited speed bursts that can be tailored to the ship or class.
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2008.02.17 23:06:00 - [30] Indeed it isnt ISK Online. This is a multiplayer game and a solo player can kick the ass of a decently sized and fitted gang due to completely borked implants (and possibly rigs) they should get a good kicking by the nerf lords CCP have nerfed some things that definitely didnt need it (Myrm ... still miss it ), but other times they swung the nerf bat and got things back into balance (ECM/Nos etc) ....sure some people who had been taking advantage will throw their toys out of the pram that their favourite overpowered item/mechanic was gone but tbh most of the vociferous peeps were crap PVPers and only suceeded by using something overpowered (even if it did cost a lot of isk)

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