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Invincibilty and the set-up

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DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:22:00 - [1] I have been asked by many friends and enemies how the hell I did that! What I mean is grt into as situation and completely control the field even being outnumbered 10 to 1, jammed and webbed. Now this isn't to boost my ego, this is to hopefully point out to CCP some faults in their game. Laides and Gentlemen I introduce to you the Machariel. Fitting - Highs - 4x 425 autos / 2x 650 autos / 1x Selynne's nuet / 1x DG Cloak Mids - 1x Gist MWD / 1x Domi web / 1x Domi Dirupt / 1x TS Cap Booster / 1x ECCM Lows - 2x Core X LAR / 2x Corpum A EANM / 1x DCU / 2x Domi Overdrives 3x Polycarbs Speed implant set What this ship can do with a claymore in gang. near 600 dps / 15km/sec / tank 800 dps (1100) overloaded. This version... Engage large gangs that are slow. It allows you do decent damage while speed tanking, being warry of rapiers and huginns and hyenas. However when the field shrinks, bum rush the webbers and gank them with an overloaded web and a tank that will laugh at them. Now if you choose to switch out the projectiles for cruise like I have atm, then it allows you to add 2 more nos / nuets. Yes your dps is crap but overtime Battleships will fall, and smaller ships like recons die fast. With the cruise set-up - Jammed? - Rush the jammer load fof's..... bump it until it dies. Webbed? - lol well that why I have nuets that can reach 36 and 39km. Nuet until you can get close enough to kill, or until you can warp, or mwd away. The idea is to speed tank until you get caught and the armor tank will hold until the tacklers are dead or nueted. Currently there are several pirate groups in Jan and Nalvula that can attest to how overpowered speed ships can be. So until the game is fixed and nano****s are dead, I will continue to exploit these fast ships 8). WildCat
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:25:00 - [2] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:25:31 Orange text... hurts... eyes... ----------------------------------------------- á Unlike popular belief the 'Magic wand of fixing' is not powered by forum whines.
Vexom Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:29:00 - [3] Edited by: Vexom on 17/02/2008 16:29:34 Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:25:31 Orange text... hurts... eyes... Unnecessary posts.. hurts... eyes Nad why post about a ship that you can exploit, surely you want it to last forever
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:32:00 - [4] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 17/02/2008 16:34:23 The orange is still annoying, also because it's the same color as moderated posts. Also: this is how to lose a Machariel Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:34:00 - [5] arent you guys used to it yet? Its not changing, get used to it, or Ill start putting Warnings orange text it titles 8) lol. WildCat
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:36:00 - [6] Alright already! I'll try to be more constructive :). Sure, the setup posted can be considered to be "overpowered" but it's also fairly expensive. Here's to hoping you wont get trapped and slaughtered . ----------------------------------------------- á Unlike popular belief the 'Magic wand of fixing' is not powered by forum whines.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:39:00 - [7] holy eff. why is this going 15km/s? thats FAST oO and it tanks too ffs! oh, and, ye, orange text sucks
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:46:00 - [8] holy crap that's so overpowred. now everyone is going to be using these setups woot and then hopefully CCP will do something about it.
Alex Shurk	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:47:00 - [9] Shouldnt this be in ships and modules. And also shouldnt this NOT BE IN A BLINDINGLY ****E COLOUR?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:51:00 - [10] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... --- Its dead, Jim.
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:54:00 - [11] According to EFT the ship would be going 4706KM/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me. ----------------------------------------------- á
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.17 16:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:57:26 According to EFT the ship would be going 4706KM/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me, care to elaborate? offline the cloak
Pharos Dei Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.02.17 17:10:00 - [13] well this setup is not a novelty, its been around for ages and effective as every.. nanoships suck etc etc, but its only one side of the medal using nanoships myself i know what youre talking about and i agree that it sucks to be on the unnanoed end, however aslong there is no counter to lol 10vs1 idiot blobs removing nanoships would equal a big chunk opf pvpers leaving... for good reason.. nerf nano indeed, but nerf blobs first..
ExcellciuM Exair Industries United Connection's	Posted - 2008.02.17 17:15:00 - [14] Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:57:26 According to EFT the ship would be going 4706KM/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me, care to elaborate? offline the cloak and add a fully skilled claymore pilot and snake implants.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.17 17:19:00 - [15] /me waves at DHB...been a while since you were chilling in 46DP- . Last night a Machariel about ran me down....in my Vagabond . He was doing around 6900 m/s (to my approx 5700 m/s). I thought it was pretty cool until I saw just how close he got to overloaded neut range. First time I had seen one. I want one now . I think its a fair enough ship. Not many can afford/fly it in the first place and VERY few have DHB's bottomless wallet either. And subject to an expensive bit of blowing up at the hands of a clued up Rapier/Huginn-led gang. At least it ain't stabbed . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 20:05:16 Originally by: ExcellciuM Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:57:26 According to EFT the ship would be going 4706m/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me, care to elaborate? offline the cloak and add a fully skilled claymore pilot and snake implants. Fitted with two Domi OD's and a Gist MWD and three Polycarbons the Mach travels at the earlier mentioned speed(4706m/s) -- Snakes and V skilled gang bonuses do not add another 10km/s. ----------------------------------------------- á
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:14:00 - [17] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 20:15:28 Anyway! Regardless of the yet to be clarified speeds this ship would be going the concept is silly. People are trying to turn something slow and slug by nature into a Interceptor wannabe. While this might be a cool gimmick for a while it'll also cost you 4+ billion in ISK per ship, and atleast two fully level V skilled members to pull it off. Worth it? Not really. Should CCP spend any time on fixing the situation? Not really, there are more pressing matters they could fix - and if people feel like blowing their ISK this way? Why not? ----------------------------------------------- á
Pharos Dei Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Osku Rei Anyway! Regardless of the yet to be clarified speeds this ship would be going the concept is silly. People are trying to turn something slow and slug by nature into a Interceptor wannabe. While this might be a cool gimmick for a while it'll also cost you 4+ billion in ISK per ship, and atleast two fully level V skilled members to pull it off. Worth it? Not really. right.... btw what you were missing was overloading the mwd... and yes 4b are worth it, or atleast to lots of us vets eho are only looking for decent pvp nowdays since weve got isk and ships we need... but as stated before the probelm is not the macha or nanos its the blobs.... remove both and eve will be better than ever..
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:17:00 - [19] Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 20:22:48 speed tanking is ridiculously broken and ccp hasn't acknowledged it yet You shouldn't need a rapier inty and 2 BS to kill a mach. No amount of isk justifies it. IMO the problem is snake sets. If snake sets are balanced then I guess it wouldn't be unbalanced to have a set that powerful for everything in the game. Like how about a set that makes all your shots score a wreaking blow on 15km/s machs. Thats balanced amirite cause it would cost a lot of isk.
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:29:00 - [20] It doesn't bother me that a ship that costs that much should be pure pwnage, although the speed seems a little overboard. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Osku Rei Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 20:33:30 Originally by: Pharos Dei but as stated before the probelm is not the macha or nanos its the blobs.... remove both and eve will be better than ever.. I'm inclined to agree with you on that, but ultimatly it is not what this thread started out with and thus i'm still replying towards the speed 'issues' with the Mach . Note: Although blob-warfare could be (alot) more interesting in a control environment when deployed versus POS / Outposts only. Whenever someone comes up with a decent solution to counter blob-warfare in situation where small gang-warfare would be more appropriate they'll have my support. Personally i once thought of the game creating a "spacial rift" once a encounter has been engaged, preventing "Warp to member" abilities after a certain time(timer countdown?). This would allow for decent fights without more and more hostiles warping ontop of you. Edit: Readability changes. ----------------------------------------------- á
Flamewave Contempt.	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:53:00 - [22] Full snake set + rogue implants + zor's hyperlink + perfect skills on this setup gives 8175m/s. Throw in a claymore and it goes up to 11.2km/s. Overload the MWD and you're looking at 16.4km/s. Throwing on a T2 polycarb brings it up to 17.4km/s. Regardless, you're looking at spending what could fit an entire fleet of ships just for this ship and its claymore booster. IMHO speed tanking should be nerfed across the board, but singling out omgwtf setups like this for specific nerfs would be silly. __________
The Herrick Gallente Bumsax United	Posted - 2008.02.17 20:57:00 - [23] Would've thought you'd have the smokescreen cloak if your gonna spend that much money on it. Don't it have something crazy like 0 penalty to lock time?
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.17 21:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... I thought that was the point of faction too. 90% of nano ships aren't nearly as fast or tanked as well ------------ Originally by: Praxis1452 you win eve
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.17 21:52:00 - [25] Originally by: The Herrick Would've thought you'd have the smokescreen cloak if your gonna spend that much money on it. Don't it have something crazy like 0 penalty to lock time? The smokescreen cloak is a covops one.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:06:00 - [26] Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 22:08:44 Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... I thought that was the point of faction too. 90% of nano ships aren't nearly as fast or tanked as well Other people play this game besides rich EvE tycoons. Not everyone has 100 billion isk and just arbitrarily decides to go with non faction setups cause we are cheapskates. You can't even gain such a large advantage in games like wow (criticized by eve players as being no-skill loot grinds) by playing so much. I play more, I started playing at day one, for 10 hours a day, did all the right things to bend the market in my favor, have limitless isk supply, blah blah blah. Should that buy me something like this? I know everything in eve had diminishing returns after a point, and it gets much more expensive for another 5%, and another 5%, to the point where you've got so many 5% that it results in 15km/s battleship. How many of these should there be? At some point there should be a line drawn, to say OK, hold up, that battleship is going way too goddamn fast, missiles can't even hit you anymore, destroyers cant even track you anymore. Going fast is fun, I know, I have an inty and its a blast, its addicting. And so people like to pretend that this kind of power is ok cause it costs a lot. What do you say when every wolfpack in eve is a nano gang, zooming around at untrackable speeds? Its ok cause they have a lot of isk? So the people with a lot of isk should just own the **** out of everything because of it? Sounds an awful lot like everquest/wow mentality.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:40:00 - [27] Originally by: HarderThisTime Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 22:08:44 Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2008 16:55:41 So if you throw a bunch of faction gear at a faction ship and use faction implants, it becomes hard to kill? Oh noes... I thought that was the point of faction too. 90% of nano ships aren't nearly as fast or tanked as well Other people play this game besides rich EvE tycoons. Not everyone has 100 billion isk and just arbitrarily decides to go with non faction setups cause we are cheapskates. You can't even gain such a large advantage in games like wow (criticized by eve players as being no-skill loot grinds) by playing so much. I play more, I started playing at day one, for 10 hours a day, did all the right things to bend the market in my favor, have limitless isk supply, blah blah blah. Should that buy me something like this? I know everything in eve had diminishing returns after a point, and it gets much more expensive for another 5%, and another 5%, to the point where you've got so many 5% that it results in 15km/s battleship. How many of these should there be? At some point there should be a line drawn, to say OK, hold up, that battleship is going way too goddamn fast, missiles can't even hit you anymore, destroyers cant even track you anymore. Going fast is fun, I know, I have an inty and its a blast, its addicting. And so people like to pretend that this kind of power is ok cause it costs a lot. What do you say when every wolfpack in eve is a nano gang, zooming around at untrackable speeds? Its ok cause they have a lot of isk? So the people with a lot of isk should just own the **** out of everything because of it? Sounds an awful lot like everquest/wow mentality. QFT it isn't Isk Online.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:58:00 - [28] Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 17/02/2008 23:00:10 This horribly expensive ship setup is only good at killing people who don't know how to fit their ships, or for running away. The second someone throws a cap injector onto a Huginn/Rapier or brings a Neut-Apoc/Curse/whatever, there's gonna be some trouble. Nanos work because people are too stubborn to counter them and insist CCP remove them from the game instead. And for those who are saying 'zomg nanos overpowered!'; that setup costs almost 9000m ISK. Would you rather face one poor-DPS nano-Machariel that will drop awesome loot, 10 fully fitted Carriers, or 140+ gank/plated Armageddons? If ISK did not matter, everyone and their dog would be flying a Titan/Mothership and EVE would be dead. It's a joke to say it should have no effect on balance. If you spend 100x more on your ship than the other guy, then you should have an advantage over them. This isn't Hello Kitty Online, deal with it.
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2008.02.17 22:58:00 - [29] Personnally I think flat out nerfing nano ships will cause a lot of problems just trying to balance it out with the variations you can put on a ship. Not sure if this would be easier to code but this would allow CCP to be very specific in the nerfing process. Every ship has a max speed. you excede that speed and you start incurring hull damage. So farther you push a ship past its max rating the higher the hull damage rate. So you could push it for short periods and compinsate somewhat using a hull repper but you push to much and your ship goes POP from the inside out. Allows for limited speed bursts that can be tailored to the ship or class.
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2008.02.17 23:06:00 - [30] Indeed it isnt ISK Online. This is a multiplayer game and a solo player can kick the ass of a decently sized and fitted gang due to completely borked implants (and possibly rigs) they should get a good kicking by the nerf lords CCP have nerfed some things that definitely didnt need it (Myrm ... still miss it ), but other times they swung the nerf bat and got things back into balance (ECM/Nos etc) ....sure some people who had been taking advantage will throw their toys out of the pram that their favourite overpowered item/mechanic was gone but tbh most of the vociferous peeps were crap PVPers and only suceeded by using something overpowered (even if it did cost a lot of isk)
The Herrick Gallente Bumsax United	Posted - 2008.02.17 23:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: The Herrick Would've thought you'd have the smokescreen cloak if your gonna spend that much money on it. Don't it have something crazy like 0 penalty to lock time? The smokescreen cloak is a covops one. okay.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.17 23:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 17/02/2008 23:00:10 This horribly expensive ship setup is only good at killing people who don't know how to fit their ships, or for running away. The second someone throws a cap injector onto a Huginn/Rapier or brings a Neut-Apoc/Curse/whatever, there's gonna be some trouble. Nanos work because people are too stubborn to counter them and insist CCP remove them from the game instead. And for those who are saying 'zomg nanos overpowered!'; that setup costs almost 9000m ISK. Would you rather face one poor-DPS nano-Machariel that will drop awesome loot, 10 fully fitted Carriers, or 140+ gank/plated Armageddons? If ISK did not matter, everyone and their dog would be flying a Titan/Mothership and EVE would be dead. It's a joke to say it should have no effect on balance. If you spend 100x more on your ship than the other guy, then you should have an advantage over them. This isn't Hello Kitty Online, deal with it. So what are you saying here? Are you saying that this ship is perfectly fine because it costs a lot? Because I don't think anybody has said that in this thread yet.
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.02.17 23:58:00 - [33] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 17/02/2008 23:58:12 Originally by: Korizan Every ship has a max speed. you excede that speed and you start incurring hull damage. So farther you push a ship past its max rating the higher the hull damage rate. So you could push it for short periods and compinsate somewhat using a hull repper but you push to much and your ship goes POP from the inside out. Allows for limited speed bursts that can be tailored to the ship or class. ...and every ship should have a max limit to tank, capacitor recharge and damageoutput too?
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.18 00:18:00 - [34] Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 17/02/2008 23:58:12 Originally by: Korizan Every ship has a max speed. you excede that speed and you start incurring hull damage. So farther you push a ship past its max rating the higher the hull damage rate. So you could push it for short periods and compinsate somewhat using a hull repper but you push to much and your ship goes POP from the inside out. Allows for limited speed bursts that can be tailored to the ship or class. ...and every ship should have a max limit to tank, capacitor recharge and damageoutput too? Yes
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.18 00:29:00 - [35] They do. Being unable to take damage from an infinite amount of people is quite different than it taking lots of people to break a tank. If you've ever flown a fast and agile ship then you know how easy it is to avoid any situations that aren't to your liking. The problem isn't the ships themselves honestly. For the most part speed-taking is risky. You get tackled by a typical inty, get assisted on, and kaboom. When snakes are involved, the balance of ship classes goes out the windown. Now that vagabond is faster than the claw. Now me I usually roll with 5 ladar jammers and just laugh at nanoships cause they all have tech 2 sensor strength. This mach not only has tech 1 sensor strength but with eccm, have fun jamming that. Only real weakness is a huginn. At which point yes hes a gonner if anyone has a point on him. But as I've said its very easy to get out of sticky situations with a snaked setup, since it takes someone else with snakes to catch you.
floater666	Posted - 2008.02.18 00:35:00 - [36] Even as a new player who gets pawned regulary by no real life skill, but an old toon and a lot of farmed ISK, players I have to say that A LOT OF MONEY setup SHOULD always beat much less money setups. Thats the way of life. In fact I have to vomit about the completely ridicolous, irrealistic, unexplainable nerfs that were forced out from CCP due to clueless whiners. EG. I think about the fact that a 100 times more expensive and bigger battleship cannot lock a frigate as fast (oh god or faster) as another frigate. Aka a sophisticated expensive big ship has worse!!! sensors than a fliing toilett noob ship. Hiccups like this in the game heavily destroy the immersion into the gameplay. Every day as I learn the smallest details of the game I have to find these completely irrealistic nerfs, which almost make me quit the game. The game has already a very very borring performance/money curve. People have to pay hundreds of millions for a 1-2!!! percentage points, because CCP keeps advanced equipement very rare. Yes a 50-100 million worth 10 cruiser gang should never ever beat a lets say an ordinary 1 billion faction battleship, but saddly it happens all the time. Yes you are stupid if you try to spend money in EVE since you usually cannot spend it smart.You should just join a succide gank with your 1 day old toon in a noobship, now that is real money making. Surely that is how it is meant to be played. Where is the freedom of EVE gone, that you are not forced to "work" in teams by CCP if you dont want to. Why is it just not possible to buy bigger ships that have realistically more fire power and weapons for the money, and not just 1-2 more weapon slots regardless of weapon size so that they are artifically forced to be bad counters of small ships?! Has anyone seen star wars movies? And they are not even realistic at all, like sound in the space and childish fantasy. Guess what the battleships in those movie have tons of small weapons as well against the small ships, yeah 1 large weapon takes much more space than a dozen of small ones so why not? At my workplace I have to work in team all the time solving **, in my playtime I want to play not wait, making compromises, doing jack** all the time because CCP figured people should be forced into gangs, fleets regardless how good they are in actually beating the game (aka making ISK). Altough I am lightyears (SP and ISK wise) from the mentioned 4 billion machariel setup but the freedom that comes with a ship like that keeps me motivated and playing the game. PS: I am not against teamwork, in 70% of my playtime I do like to play in teams because of the variety of a fleet or gang warefare. I am against the abnormal diminishing return on ships, rigs, implants, items.
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.02.18 00:44:00 - [37] I was naturally meaning a fixed number eg Raven MaxTank: 400 DPS, Maxdmg: 450 Maxrecharge: 30/s Anything above these numbers and the ship should be starting taking hulldamage and explode. Right?
Captain Agemman Minmatar Legio Ultra	Posted - 2008.02.18 01:00:00 - [38] Oh lol, just imagine the whines if CCP announced a max-tank of 300dps for a drake, after which the ship will start to explode. As for this setup. The market in Eve is player driven, especially prices for faction and officer loot drops. These modules don't cost that much because of mineral value. They provide an edge over stock t2 and the usefullness of this edge dictates the price. Add enough of them into one ship, and takedown will be hard unless you put comparable time into preparing the takedown gang as was put into preparing the target ship. It will be cheaper by an order of magnitude, but you need preparation, a plan and a clue. The only way to change that is to make all ships the same and replace all modules with "generic highslot weapon"-type mods. No thanks.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.02.18 01:05:00 - [39] Move this *** stroking ** thread to the ship fitting section so that no one will ever have to see it again please mods. No one likes you.
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.18 01:21:00 - [40] I am selling a machariel with 3 x nano rigs if anyone wants 1.. I have two.. price is 820mil with all 3 rigs ( rigs cost 120mil ) bargin ..
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.18 01:22:00 - [41] Originally by: HarderThisTime Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 17/02/2008 23:00:10 This horribly expensive ship setup is only good at killing people who don't know how to fit their ships, or for running away. The second someone throws a cap injector onto a Huginn/Rapier or brings a Neut-Apoc/Curse/whatever, there's gonna be some trouble. Nanos work because people are too stubborn to counter them and insist CCP remove them from the game instead. And for those who are saying 'zomg nanos overpowered!'; that setup costs almost 9000m ISK. Would you rather face one poor-DPS nano-Machariel that will drop awesome loot, 10 fully fitted Carriers, or 140+ gank/plated Armageddons? If ISK did not matter, everyone and their dog would be flying a Titan/Mothership and EVE would be dead. It's a joke to say it should have no effect on balance. If you spend 100x more on your ship than the other guy, then you should have an advantage over them. This isn't Hello Kitty Online, deal with it. So what are you saying here? Are you saying that this ship is perfectly fine because it costs a lot? Because I don't think anybody has said that in this thread yet. You get what you pay for. It has no DPS when moving when using ACs, using Cruise it's DPS is so low that it would take an ungodly amount of time to kill anyone. When it isn't in 9b ISK shuttle mode (when moving quickly), it is out-DPSed and out-tanked by pretty much every T2 fitted tech 1 BS in the game. It works for solo/very small gang work against people who can't PvP their way out of a box, but a smart solo player won't be caught by it (BS lock time) and a smart gang will kill it, ignore it, or the pilot will kill themselves eventually. A 15km/s battleship has absolutely no control whatsoever compared to smaller ships, a single mistake, lag spike, badly timed MWD, etc means you are down 9b. The ship works at killing 'tards and takes a great deal of skill to fly and not die instantly. And anyone who says a 9000m ship should not have an advantage over a 100m ship seems to be playing the wrong game. The accessibility of ships/modules via SP AND ISK are two core components of EVE, there is a reason why people endlessly grind rats, missions and markets. Furthurmore, the idea that Vagabonds/whatever nano-ship goes faster than frigates/interceptors is completely untrue. Invest the same amount of ISK and you can achieve speeds of beyond 40km/s without much trouble. If you only buy a LG Snake set, Gistii B-Type MWD, etc (ie. the 'cheap' options) you will still be going 5-20km/s faster than the larger-sized ships putting 5x more ISK into their ships, and a large number of these have no defense against such tacklers.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.18 01:23:00 - [42] Originally by: floater666 Edited by: floater666 on 18/02/2008 00:43:39 Even as a new player who gets pawned regulary by no real life skill, but an old toon and a lot of farmed ISK, players I have to say that A LOT OF MONEY setup SHOULD always beat much less money setups. Thats the way of life. In fact I have to vomit about the completely ridicolous, irrealistic, unexplainable nerfs that were forced out from CCP due to clueless whiners. EG. I think about the fact that a 100 times more expensive and bigger battleship cannot lock a frigate as fast (oh god or faster) as another frigate. Aka a sophisticated expensive big ship has worse!!! sensors than a fliing toilett noob ship. Hiccups like this in the game heavily destroy the immersion into the gameplay. Every day as I learn the smallest details of the game I have to find these completely irrealistic nerfs, which almost make me quit the game. The game has already a very very borring performance/money curve. People have to pay hundreds of millions for a 1-2!!! percentage points, because CCP keeps advanced equipement very rare. Yes a 50-100 million worth 10 cruiser gang should never ever beat a lets say an ordinary 1 billion faction battleship, but saddly it happens all the time. Yes you are stupid if you try to spend money in EVE since you usually cannot spend it smart.You should just join a succide gank with your 1 day old toon in a noobship, now that is real money making. Surely that is how it is meant to be played. Where is the freedom of EVE gone, that you are not forced to "work" in teams by CCP if you dont want to. Why is it just not possible to buy bigger ships that have realistically more fire power and weapons for the money, and not just 1-2 more weapon slots regardless of weapon size so that they are artifically forced to be bad counters of small ships?! Has anyone seen star wars movies? And they are not even realistic at all, like sound in the space and childish fantasy. Guess what the battleships in those movie have tons of small weapons as well against the small ships, yeah 1 large weapon takes much more space than a dozen of small ones so why not? At my workplace I have to work in team all the time solving **, in my playtime I want to play not wait, making compromises, doing jack all the time because CCP figured people should be forced into gangs, fleets regardless how good they are in actually beating the game (aka making ISK). Altough I am lightyears (SP and ISK wise) from the mentioned 4 billion machariel setup but the freedom that comes with a ship like that keeps me motivated and playing the game. PS: I am not against teamwork, in 70% of my playtime I do like to play in teams because of the variety of a fleet or gang warefare. I am against the abnormal diminishing return on ships, rigs, implants, items. God forbid that in spite of all the whining there still exist a few couple of billion worth setups that can god forbid kill sometimes cheap ships. Please quit eve. Again. While there are others that think speed tanking is OK because it doesn't affect them or they are addicted to the power themselves, nobody else in this thread agrees with your views. Balanced games just arn't for you. Shoot you probably **ed that better units in RTS cost more food... 10 cruisers should never kill a faction battleship? Yeah go play a game you can use cheetcodes in.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.18 01:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Ariel Dawn You get what you pay for. It has no DPS when moving when using ACs, using Cruise it's DPS is so low that it would take an ungodly amount of time to kill anyone. When it isn't in 9b ISK shuttle mode (when moving quickly), it is out-DPSed and out-tanked by pretty much every T2 fitted tech 1 BS in the game. It works for solo/very small gang work against people who can't PvP their way out of a box, but a smart solo player won't be caught by it (BS lock time) and a smart gang will kill it, ignore it, or the pilot will kill themselves eventually. A 15km/s battleship has absolutely no control whatsoever compared to smaller ships, a single mistake, lag spike, badly timed MWD, etc means you are down 9b. The ship works at killing 'tards and takes a great deal of skill to fly and not die instantly. And anyone who says a 9000m ship should not have an advantage over a 100m ship seems to be playing the wrong game. The accessibility of ships/modules via SP AND ISK are two core components of EVE, there is a reason why people endlessly grind rats, missions and markets. Furthurmore, the idea that Vagabonds/whatever nano-ship goes faster than frigates/interceptors is completely untrue. Invest the same amount of ISK and you can achieve speeds of beyond 40km/s without much trouble. If you only buy a LG Snake set, Gistii B-Type MWD, etc (ie. the 'cheap' options) you will still be going 5-20km/s faster than the larger-sized ships putting 5x more ISK into their ships, and a large number of these have no defense against such tacklers. It does not take long at all for a BS to lock another BS or BC, what most ppl use to beltrat in. If they aren't perfectly aligned, up to speed, currently targeting what they're aligned with, and playing perfect attention, this thing will be ontop of them within a couple seconds, game over. But that isn't the problem its their overwhelming defense. You said they are only good vs bad players, well thats just ridiculous and you know it. Moving on. Implants and faction gear are luxury items. If you ever spend anytime doing real pvp then you'd acknowledge that. I get podded every day, and I don't have a chinese sweatshop farming complexes for me. I see a mach warp in, if im solo I of course warp out, whatever. But when I'm in my inty w/ tech 2 everything but riggings, (again I get blown up everyday, no need for a 50mil isk inty) and I can't catch a cruiser while im doin 5km/s, theres a failure in game balance somewhere. Now who knows, maybe frigates need a universal speed boost, all I know is frigates(specifically interceptors) are the proposed counter to nano ships. Not snaked frigates. That is absurd. Most people have this beef with cruisers and larger, but it also exists with frigates, where snaked inties cannot be caught. And don't be too comfortable just because this is the way its always been. Just look at amarr. Tick Tock enjoy it while it lasts
Roxanna Kell FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.18 01:59:00 - [44] Try the red, looks better.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.18 02:01:00 - [45] Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 18/02/2008 02:03:01 More proof the game needs viable 24-30km webs You scrambled? Then web the bast! Also - 0 Cap usage for weapons means Projectiles are required for invinvibility fit.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.18 02:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Osku Rei People are trying to turn something slow and slug by nature into a Interceptor wannabe. While this might be a cool gimmick for a while it'll also cost you 4+ billion in ISK per ship, and atleast two fully level V skilled members to pull it off. Worth it? Not really. It is worth it. Heck at 10bil its worth it. PvPers know how to make tons of isk to fund their pvp habit. 4bil for a invincible ship is worth it because it is almost impossible to kill a competent pilot flying one. Typhoons going 30kms were a joke and ccp nerfed it. CCP need to fis nano ASAP and the fist is EASY LONG RANGE WEB. SCRAMBLER RANGE WEB. That way nano setups do what they are good at, and a web becomes a real counter.
UMEE	Posted - 2008.02.18 03:20:00 - [47] Originally by: DHB WildCat arent you guys used to it yet? Its not changing, get used to it, or Ill start putting Warnings orange text it titles 8) lol. WildCat in my humble opinion, the dark orange against black and grey background is more soothing for the eyes than white text. i fully support the colour choice.
Kyle Haque Solstice Systems Development Concourse The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.02.18 03:25:00 - [48] Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Originally by: Osku Rei People are trying to turn something slow and slug by nature into a Interceptor wannabe. While this might be a cool gimmick for a while it'll also cost you 4+ billion in ISK per ship, and atleast two fully level V skilled members to pull it off. Worth it? Not really. It is worth it. Heck at 10bil its worth it. PvPers know how to make tons of isk to fund their pvp habit. 4bil for a invincible ship is worth it because it is almost impossible to kill a competent pilot flying one. Typhoons going 30kms were a joke and ccp nerfed it. CCP need to fis nano ASAP and the fist is EASY LONG RANGE WEB. SCRAMBLER RANGE WEB. That way nano setups do what they are good at, and a web becomes a real counter. Ok get it straight the reason that nanophoon were nerfed was not because of their speed it was there agility. They used to be quicker into warp than inties.... that and with nos they were able to sustain their MWD. Thats was the broken bit. Secondly speed has always been a valid tactic in eve and there are 40km webs that you can buy for your battleship so its really a not an issue... you just have to be willing to spend isk on the same level as these high end nanoship pilots to stop them.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.18 03:29:00 - [49] Originally by: HarderThisTime It does not take long at all for a BS to lock another BS or BC, what most ppl use to beltrat in. If they aren't perfectly aligned, up to speed, currently targeting what they're aligned with, and playing perfect attention, this thing will be ontop of them within a couple seconds, game over. But that isn't the problem its their overwhelming defense. You said they are only good vs bad players, well thats just ridiculous and you know it. Moving on. Implants and faction gear are luxury items. If you ever spend anytime doing real pvp then you'd acknowledge that. I get podded every day, and I don't have a chinese sweatshop farming complexes for me. I see a mach warp in, if im solo I of course warp out, whatever. But when I'm in my inty w/ tech 2 everything but riggings, (again I get blown up everyday, no need for a 50mil isk inty) and I can't catch a cruiser while im doin 5km/s, theres a failure in game balance somewhere. Now who knows, maybe frigates need a universal speed boost, all I know is frigates(specifically interceptors) are the proposed counter to nano ships. Not snaked frigates. That is absurd. Most people have this beef with cruisers and larger, but it also exists with frigates, where snaked inties cannot be caught. And don't be too comfortable just because this is the way its always been. Just look at amarr. Tick Tock enjoy it while it lasts Like I said, it only catches dumb people. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever you should not be aligned while ratting when there is a hostile in local. None, whatsoever. It will not warp to you, fall out of warp, and lock you faster than you can click warp and be off. If you get caught, that is your fault and has nothing to do with balance. Implants and faction gear are luxury items? How about Tech 2, or fitting any modules on your ship in the first place? They are tools to be used, not a luxury. If I spend 2x the ISK cost of battleship for a web with an extra 5km, I'm not buying it to look at. It's use is for improving my PvP experience. And the fact that you get podded everyday is surprising considering how difficult it is to get podded, unless you actively decide to always lose your ship inside a bubble. Just because you are poor and can only afford 5-10m interceptors does not mean, in the slightest way whatsoever, that you should be able to solo ships that cost over 1000 times more than yours. You get the performance that you pay for. A normal speed-fit interceptor in a proper gang (with a claymore or cs running skirm mods) overloading it's MWD without snakes will go as fast (or faster) as HACs+ using high-grade Snakes. Use mixed speed mods (Zors, 3%s, whatever is in your budget), and there is no contest, especially if you spend the whopping sum of 20m for a Gistii B-Type 1mn. And I really love the comment that snaked ships cannot be caught. Guess what the #1 most destroyed interceptor in EVE is? The Crow. Guess what the #1 most destroyed HAC in EVE is? The Vagabond. The fastest 'dictor also happens to be the one destroyed the most as well. Straight from the Devs They clearly are invincible. No matter what the cold, hard statistics say!
Cyriel Longinus XERCORE	Posted - 2008.02.18 03:43:00 - [50] Hey DHB Wildcat, Can you add drug speed booster to your setup and tell us how fast it goes then? Thanks.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.18 04:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Just because you are poor and can only afford 5-10m interceptors does not mean, in the slightest way whatsoever, that you should be able to solo ships that cost over 1000 times more than yours. You get the performance that you pay for. There are these things called ship roles in eve. Interceptors are supposed to tackle. Without faction gear and gang bonuses. These roles aren't based off isk, cause thats NOT eve is about. Originally by: Ariel Dawn And I really love the comment that snaked ships cannot be caught. Guess what the #1 most destroyed interceptor in EVE is? The Crow. Guess what the #1 most destroyed HAC in EVE is? The Vagabond. The fastest 'dictor also happens to be the one destroyed the most as well. Straight from the Devs They clearly are invincible. No matter what the cold, hard statistics say! Thats because they are the most popular. They are the most popular for a reason. Statistics are dangerous without proper analysis mmmkay.
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.02.18 04:56:00 - [52] Originally by: DHB WildCat Currently there are several pirate groups in Jan and Nalvula that can attest to how overpowered speed ships can be. So until the game is fixed and nano****s are dead, I will continue to exploit these fast ships 8). And your other boys call us cowards for not wanting to engage their nanofaggotry Twas nice of you to take credit for the sentrys killing our poor drunk Falcon a few minutes after he got away from you, and then edit the sentrys out of the killmail for your board. Regardless you are correct. A machariel setup like yours is insane, can get away with almost anything and would you mind taking it somewhere else? I honestly don't think it deserves a nerf though. When you're handicapped like we are in low-sec you'll be safe from almost anything. Engaging outside the range of sentry guns allows for a well run gang with the right support to grab, web and then try to eat at your tank. But then, when you can invest a few billion into a ship it really should take a well-run group effort to take it down. ____ Black Rabbits Recruitment
faxtarious Kai-Zen inc.	Posted - 2008.02.18 05:46:00 - [53] webbed ? FROSSSSSTTHHHOOOCCC* !!! Nossed ? No problem, unload some mana tide totem and cast "FROSSSSSTTHHHOOOCCC* !!!" Blobed ? SOME MORE FROSSSSSTTHHHOOOCCC* !!! Orange text hurt eye ? FROSSSSSTTHHHOOOCCC* !!!
Tainted OrPHeN The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.18 06:41:00 - [54] Originally by: Ridley Tree And your other boys call us cowards for not wanting to engage their nanofaggotry Twas nice of you to take credit for the sentrys killing our poor drunk Falcon a few minutes after he got away from you, and then edit the sentrys out of the killmail for your board. LOL at editing mails. --- New sig pending
Julius Romanus Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.18 06:46:00 - [55] Considering he cant track when he's up to speed I fail to see the true brokenness. Decloak the rapier when he slows down to shoot.
Chavu Ganja Labs Pure.	Posted - 2008.02.18 07:38:00 - [56] While that ship is hardly invincible and that group of low sec pirates may not be the best PvPers in the game, you point is a valid one: Officer/Faction gear can grant a ship super-powers that it probably shouldn't have. T2 Vaga without polycarbons is nowhere near imbalanced. Now overload, polys, high grade snakes, 5% rogues, faction mwd, faction overdrives, combat boosters, claymore. Yeah, it can get pretty ridiculous. Just one question to you, DHB Wildcat, how upset would you be if you logged on without any warning from CCP that your setup was not going any faster than T2 and you couldn't resell the mods? I would like to nerf the super officer ships but you earned your money and it shouldn't be just taken away from you.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.02.18 07:49:00 - [57] Originally by: Julius Romanus Considering he cant track when he's up to speed I fail to see the true brokenness. Decloak the rapier when he slows down to shoot. How far do you think it can move in the 5 second recalibration time of a Rapier? shrug. 's a good setup. It's an expensive setup. However unlike the pimp officer tank/gank setups, the damage scaling of the opposition is essentially negated. Whilst a estamels shield tanking raven could tank very hard indeed, it'll still lose to a gang of any size. You can _maybe_ take 3:1 odds with a _really_ expensive setup, and a well skilled pilot, but not much more. And if the odds get out of your control (and they do) you lose your stuff. A nanosetup is different. It's called the 'anti blob weapon' by so many, but at the same time, the irony is it practically forces a blob. I guess the real question comes down to the fundamental matter of opinion: How much power should isks buy? How much power should SPs buy? If a 60mil SP character (which lets not forget, is uncatchable on SPs. But newbies are always told that's ok, because they can specialise) with a fat wallet can be in a position of 'compare your chars to mine, and then kill yourselves' ... well, is that really better than world of warcraft's 'level 70, I don't care how many level 10s you bring, I will kill them all'. C'mon. We're better than that. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Zothike Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.18 07:55:00 - [58] Dont forget people, that their is a metagaming parameter that you must count in with flying such multi billion set up - when your ISP disconnect or server crash in the middle of a pvp fight, you can loose your ship, and generally no^petition give it back to you. I had a friend who had a whole Set of +5 implants, he was doing a little travel in 0.0 wiTh all the instas (no warp to 0km at this time) he warped to a little camp, but a bug made him bumping the wargate who throw him like 50km of it, he was killed/poded, can't be refund with petition, then he left the game random metagaming balance the game
Julius Romanus Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.18 08:20:00 - [59] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Julius Romanus Considering he cant track when he's up to speed I fail to see the true brokenness. Decloak the rapier when he slows down to shoot. How far do you think it can move in the 5 second recalibration time of a Rapier? Depends, is the rapier faction/deadspace speed fit w/ a claymore? If so, probably no where near far enough to escape the webs =P My real point is, if 5bil+ isk needs to run away when the recon decloaks, it's not broken. I'm not actually arguing with you, since you arent saying its broken either. But i do see your point.
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.18 09:29:00 - [60] I can attest to the power of this setup. Even a measly 1.5 Bil total ship+setup will pwn most things, you don't need to go completely overboard like WildCat. All you need are really are the snakes. Capships should fear this ship, because it easily bumps them 50 km off a station. Also they outpace even the sexiest intys and vagas on the field, and should they come near, they are thrashed in seconds. I love this ship Though, in all honesty, I don't think it's completely overpowered given the huge initial cost and training to make it effective.
Bad Borris Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.18 09:47:00 - [61] why exactly do you think that it is overpowered? I mean what you are doing with the mach aint exactly cheap and despite the fact that you clearly know what you are doing with it, one day you will meet someone who has a fitting you dont expect or a gang specifically designed to kill you. I would think you would be complaining if it were straightforward to kill you.
Wizzkidy Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2008.02.18 10:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Bad Borris one day you will meet someone who has a fitting you dont expect or a gang specifically designed to kill you. Wrong because any normal inteligent person with that speed behind him will just run away and NOT die. The cost means nothing, being able to do 24ms/sec in a BS is wrong no matter what the cost.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.18 10:42:00 - [63] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/02/2008 10:42:49 OP doesn't solo much with it anyway (most of his kills with the Machariel are with more people), the preformance he quoted isn't possible solo to begin with (max skilled Claymore providing gang bonuses is hardly 'solo'), and tbh, while his setup is very nice (except damage wise) and extremely costly, it's likely to overshoot even domination distruptor range given the topspeed and the quite bad agility of the ship. Hey, he only needs 900 more kills with it for the ship to pay itself off and be 'cost-effective', given a very good (in gang) 8-10M / kill for your average kill If he does, in fact, menage to do so, we can call the ship 'overpowered' really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Serge Tahlon Gallente Templars of Space Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 10:47:00 - [64] i think for the amount of isk spent on the ship you deserve a little "invincebility". :D
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.02.18 11:05:00 - [65] Ill support another nanonerf if, coupled with it, we get a mentality implant that sees the average player shift philosophy from "how many more people can we bring" to "What can we do best with what we've got?"
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.18 11:22:00 - [66] Bah, hardly overpowered, it takes 1 Huginn, 1 Celestis and some DPS (or patience) to kill it. EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.18 12:09:00 - [67] Ok so let coutner it with same isk ratio. Baalhgorn 4 TS HEavy Neut 4 Dual 425mm Domination Web Domination Disrupyot Domination AB (yes AB you wont run after a machariel anyway woudl you?) 2 TS Heavy Injectors 2 Amarr Navy Lar 3 Amarr navy Hardeners TS EANM DC II 1 Egress Maximizer II 2 Aux nano pump Done. Anything that gets udner 30 km is insta neuted and can web at 29 km Can tank a bit over 850 dps Not using any pirate implant. If you want to go nuts can try some talisman then drop to 3 Neut and get an extra gun and get MWD ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.18 12:28:00 - [68] Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 12:28:03 1) Orange text still makes you look like a pretenetious ****.. the contents of the text further compund this 2) Now we know why you went all prissy in the mwd cloak thread... beacause you use the mwd cloak trick 3) The mach, whilst nice, is easily killable by a small specialised gang... and yes i do have one. SKUNK
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2008.02.18 12:51:00 - [69] Originally by: HarderThisTime It does not take long at all for a BS to lock another BS or BC, what most ppl use to beltrat in. yes and it doesn't matter if the bs is nanoed... if you fail to watch local scanner and take any precautions whatsoever you die this is not new Quote: If they aren't perfectly aligned, up to speed, currently targeting what they're aligned with, and playing perfect attention, this thing will be ontop of them within a couple seconds, game over. But that isn't the problem its their overwhelming defense. You said they are only good vs bad players, well thats just ridiculous and you know it. Moving on. quotin' a bad player Quote: Implants and faction gear are luxury items. If you ever spend anytime doing real pvp then you'd acknowledge that. I get podded every day, and I don't have a chinese sweatshop farming complexes for me. ok so you do more "real pvp" because you die a lot have you ever considered you just suck? you're poor so everyone with some isk is a chinese farmer? have you ever considered you just suck? Quote: I see a mach warp in, if im solo I of course warp out, whatever. But when I'm in my inty w/ tech 2 everything but riggings, (again I get blown up everyday, no need for a 50mil isk inty) and I can't catch a cruiser while im doin 5km/s, theres a failure in game balance somewhere. you suck an unrigged ares with heat should do over 8k with rigs make it 10k you should maybe take that plate off your inty before you try to go fast Quote: Now who knows, maybe frigates need a universal speed boost, all I know is frigates(specifically interceptors) are the proposed counter to nano ships. Not snaked frigates. That is absurd. well i still wouldn't try to solo a battleship in your inty but if you fit it better and use heat you'll stand a far better chance. you can pulse mwd and web between neut cycles you know Quote: Most people have this beef with cruisers and larger, but it also exists with frigates, where snaked inties cannot be caught. And don't be too comfortable just because this is the way its always been. Just look at amarr. Tick Tock enjoy it while it lasts sheesh stop whining and train a few skills or fly in a gang and use tactics there's this amazing tactic called "don't get drawn off and killed individually" you should try it sometime
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.18 13:19:00 - [70] I think this guy just wants to be able to say "Look at me, I got CCP to nerf <x>" for his 5 minutes of fame.
Delichon Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2008.02.18 13:51:00 - [71] Waiting for "I was lured into a trap and had a bunch of caps droped on my head - NERF BLOBS" topic :) ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. Next time they are going to nerf you directly. Eve Forums.
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.18 14:48:00 - [72] Having two machariels 1 deadspace fitted tank the other deadspace fitted for nano - its much fun yes.. broken no ? .. anyways am looking to sell the second machariel as its to costly to lose in my eyes.. if you want a quick machariel with poly rigs save ya self 120mil.. email me in game :) Ship is not broken it does not need a nerf.. People stop crying out if you dont have the ISK to fund this kind of thing it does not mean its broken it just means a person has worked harder in eve to obtain what they find fun.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.18 14:54:00 - [73] Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 18/02/2008 14:55:25 Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 18/02/2008 14:55:10 Originally by: ApaKaka I think this guy just wants to be able to say "Look at me, I got CCP to nerf <x>" for his 5 minutes of fame. No - CCP are eriously nerfing nano setups, so he is wanting to promote his wares and sell it. Just like the guys were promoting MS's before anti-invincible MS nerf - because they know 100% for a fact its going to happen. Its just like how the property market works. Property Prices goes up - the media reading investers buy overvalued investments. Property goes down - the media reading invester sells investments at a undervalued price. Buy expensive, sell cheap insted of the other way around. Lol. Basically, thats what is happeneing here. Nano is getting nerfed so nano is no longer invincible mode.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.18 15:22:00 - [74] Originally by: Wizzkidy Wrong because any normal inteligent person with that speed behind him will just run away and NOT die. The cost means nothing, being able to do 24ms/sec in a BS is wrong no matter what the cost. And then they will forget to turn off the MWD and get raped by a Dread. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.02.18 15:44:00 - [75] Originally by: Cyriel Longinus Hey DHB Wildcat, Can you add drug speed booster to your setup and tell us how fast it goes then? Thanks. I havent used boosters with the tanked set-up. I would assume 17-18km/sec. However my speed mach does 27km/sec. I do not have perfect skills though so I dont know its full potential. WildCat
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.02.18 16:09:00 - [76] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 12:55:48 Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 12:28:03 1) Orange text still makes you look like a pretenetious ***.. the contents of the text further compund this 2) Now we know why you went all prissy in the mwd cloak thread... beacause you use the mwd cloak trick 3) The mach, whilst nice, is easily killable by a small specialised gang... and yes i do have one (edit ... mach that is). SKUNK Lol I have a stalker troll 8). 1) I like the orange dont be mad because you cant do it or didnt think of it. 2) Ask the BE guys or the 0utbreak guys if BE isnt good enough for you. I am a firefighter I never have a dya off. If the tones drop I have to drop everything Im doing and go. Now if this means I am in 0.0 or low sec with no staion am I supposed to just go afk, while a cov-ops probes me down!? I dont fing think so, so if you dare question my intentions of a cloak due to my profession then you sir can go to hell. 3)The mach is also unkillable by a pilot that watches local, knows the gang make-up, has his alt in the backup plan like I also do. Bring any gang you want, I will engage it. I would like to see you catch it, then try to hold it. WildCat
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.18 16:09:00 - [77] Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 18/02/2008 16:16:39 CCP have never stated that speed is getting nerfed to my knowledge. It's only because it was the most whined about topic a while ago, and it seems whatever is complained about gets nerfed into oblivion. 'Most popular' is not a counter-argument considering that nano-ship are supposedly invincible. There should not be a single Crow/Vagabond/etc dieing, AT ALL, if this laughable claim is true. Saying that you need more than one ship (a gang) to kill something like this is moronic. I'm sure the vast majority of you won't even undock in a gang of less than 10 people. Solo PvP on the BS level is practically non-existent and mostly consists of ganking a ratter. There are plenty of other ships out there that cannot be killed 1v1 either, Tier 3 BSes can tank pretty much anything, Capital ships require gangs to take down, some Recons, etc. Use TEAMWORK. Agility is more important than pure speed in nano-setups, which this Machariel lacking the former. The speeds it can achieve are completely useless asides from bumping things. It is only capable of killing weak ships and completely unprepared people. This ship is a payday kill for any decent gang. Nano-ships are far from invincible, especially given the instability of CCP's game. Also, removing and/or nerfing nano-setups will not make you whiners happy until everyone is flying the exact same setup with no skill required other than being able to lock targets and hitting F1,F2,F3... Don't forget, if nano's are nerfed into oblivion, ECM will be the next to go. Pretty much every decent sized gang has a couple of Falcons, and the whine brigade has to go somewhere. All of a sudden your shiny ships are next on the chopping block. Originally by: DHB WildCat 3)The mach is also unkillable by a pilot that watches local, knows the gang make-up, has his alt in the backup plan like I also do. Bring any gang you want, I will engage it. I would like to see you catch it, then try to hold it. This is true of any ship, especially if you're using an alt. They may not freely engage a gang, but will be as invincible as a nano-Mach. First you said 10km/s, then 15km/s, then 24km/s, now 27km/s. All the while your setup has never changed. I call bull****. And don't forget to include how agile your flying brick is at those speeds (even if they weren't made up). I'm surprised you can even hold someone down, as the second you click MWD you go flying out of disruptor range, even if you overload it and have a Claymore in gang.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.02.18 16:27:00 - [78] Originally by: Ariel Dawn[quote=DHB WildCat 3)The mach is also unkillable by a pilot that watches local, knows the gang make-up, has his alt in the backup plan like I also do. Bring any gang you want, I will engage it. I would like to see you catch it, then try to hold it. This is true of any ship, especially if you're using an alt. They may not freely engage a gang, but will be as invincible as a nano-Mach. First you said 10km/s, then 15km/s, then 24km/s, now 27km/s. All the while your setup has never changed. I call bull****. And don't forget to include how agile your flying brick is at those speeds (even if they weren't made up). I'm surprised you can even hold someone down, as the second you click MWD you go flying out of disruptor range, even if you overload it and have a Claymore in gang. I know its hard for some people with reading comprehension so I will explain. I have 3 mach's all set-up differently. One tank / autos' , and one cruise / tank... both of those are the 15km/sec version. The third is set up for speed. The 27km/sec version. I hope that fixes your confusion 8). Also if you note that a claymore doesnt just give bonuses for speed. It can also give nice bonuses to disrupt and webbing range. So while I will coast out of a 30km scram range, I will not coast out of I think a near 45km disrupt range before I can slow and begin to orbit. WildCat
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 16:42:00 - [79] I flew about 6 maches with full Snake sets and officer fittings, and I lost all of them to pvp. I am not be as uber as WildCat, but I am not a newb either. My record was about 100 kills on 1 mach. My maches were doing between 6-9 km/s, which was usually enough to outrun most tacklers. All my losses were due to clever enemy bait + gank traps. From this evidence you should conclude that Mach + good setup does not grant user invincibility. It all depends on how you use it, and even then, sooner or later it will die. If we agree that ship and setup aren't the deciding factor of invincibility, then we can argue that pretty much any pvp ship can be invincible - if played right. Of course we all see that when a highly skilled player gets an officer fitted faction ship, he can be nearly-invincible. Your goal is to prevent this invincibility. Your suggestion is to nerf a class of ships and setups. But your blanket nerf also effects the unskilled player who does not have that invincibility when flying the same ship with same setup. Therefore, to nerf only invincibility and nothing else, what we need to do is make sure that highly skilled player can't fly faction ships with officer gear. For example, if DHB WildCat and others like him are caught using those ships, GM confiscates their ships. That would be a proper nerf, right on target, without collateral damage.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.18 17:04:00 - [80] Originally by: Chavu T2 Vaga without polycarbons is nowhere near imbalanced. Now overload, polys, high grade snakes, 5% rogues, faction mwd, faction overdrives, combat boosters, claymore. Yeah, it can get pretty ridiculous. Vagabond with polys is finely balanced. If it goes fast, it cannot shoot at all. It has trouble permarunning the mwd. Compromise between running and hitting. Compare with the other nanoships and see which comes out as the most balanced.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 17:09:00 - [81] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Chavu T2 Vaga without polycarbons is nowhere near imbalanced. Now overload, polys, high grade snakes, 5% rogues, faction mwd, faction overdrives, combat boosters, claymore. Yeah, it can get pretty ridiculous. Vagabond with polys is finely balanced. If it goes fast, it cannot shoot at all. It has trouble permarunning the mwd. Compromise between running and hitting. Compare with the other nanoships and see which comes out as the most balanced. A problem that can't be ignored is that you can't balance PvP using faction gear.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.18 17:19:00 - [82] Originally by: Dr Paithos <general ** posting> Quote: Implants and faction gear are luxury items. If you ever spend anytime doing real pvp then you'd acknowledge that. I get podded every day, and I don't have a chinese sweatshop farming complexes for me. ok so you do more "real pvp" because you die a lot have you ever considered you just suck? you're poor so everyone with some isk is a chinese farmer? have you ever considered you just suck? Quote: Most people have this beef with cruisers and larger, but it also exists with frigates, where snaked inties cannot be caught. And don't be too comfortable just because this is the way its always been. Just look at amarr. Tick Tock enjoy it while it lasts sheesh stop whining and train a few skills or fly in a gang and use tactics there's this amazing tactic called "don't get drawn off and killed individually" you should try it sometime I love it when pubbies prove their pubbiness by pretending that having expectations of invincibility is real pvp. You get blown up and podded in real pvp. Plain and simple. Everyone does. If I planned to not get blown up, then i'd fit WCS or nano+snake out a fast ship like the rest of the chicken **s. And for the last time, I am ok with loss. EVERYONE who's opinion is worth a damn in this thread is ok with loss. If you aren't, you shouldn't undock. So you're continual blabbing on about how to avoid death from a nano-ship is just proof of a failure at reading comprehension. The problem, that we're "whining" about, is the inability to kill something/someone (particularly cruisers and larger) without heavy investment in implants. And if you think un-implanted, un-officer fitted, inties can match a snaked and heated nano hac, then, well, you haven't done the math.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.02.18 17:27:00 - [83] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 18/02/2008 16:16:39'Most popular' is not a counter-argument considering that nano-ship are supposedly invincible. There should not be a single Crow/Vagabond/etc dieing, AT ALL, if this laughable claim is true. Saying that you need more than one ship (a gang) to kill something like this is moronic. I'm sure the vast majority of you won't even undock in a gang of less than 10 people. Solo PvP on the BS level is practically non-existent and mostly consists of ganking a ratter. There are plenty of other ships out there that cannot be killed 1v1 either, Tier 3 BSes can tank pretty much anything, Capital ships require gangs to take down, some Recons, etc. Use TEAMWORK. Nano ships are not invincible. Snaked nano ships are invincible unless piloted by extreme incompetence. Theres nothing wrong with speed tanking, I can catch a typical vagabond no problem in a crow, and im training for hyena now as well. Hyena is what all interceptors should have been tbqh.
Heritor Caldari Polytope	Posted - 2008.02.18 18:14:00 - [84] Originally by: DHB WildCat I have been asked by many friends and enemies how the hell I did that! What I mean is grt into as situation and completely control the field even being outnumbered 10 to 1, jammed and webbed. Now this isn't to boost my ego, this is to hopefully point out to CCP some faults in their game. Laides and Gentlemen I introduce to you the Machariel. Fitting - Highs - 4x 425 autos / 2x 650 autos / 1x Selynne's nuet / 1x DG Cloak Mids - 1x Gist MWD / 1x Domi web / 1x Domi Dirupt / 1x TS Cap Booster / 1x ECCM Lows - 2x Core X LAR / 2x Corpum A EANM / 1x DCU / 2x Domi Overdrives 3x Polycarbs Speed implant set What this ship can do with a claymore in gang. near 600 dps / 15km/sec / tank 800 dps (1100) overloaded. This version... Engage large gangs that are slow. It allows you do decent damage while speed tanking, being warry of rapiers and huginns and hyenas. However when the field shrinks, bum rush the webbers and gank them with an overloaded web and a tank that will laugh at them. Now if you choose to switch out the projectiles for cruise like I have atm, then it allows you to add 2 more nos / nuets. Yes your dps is crap but overtime Battleships will fall, and smaller ships like recons die fast. With the cruise set-up - Jammed? - Rush the jammer load fof's..... bump it until it dies. Webbed? - lol well that why I have nuets that can reach 36 and 39km. Nuet until you can get close enough to kill, or until you can warp, or mwd away. The idea is to speed tank until you get caught and the armor tank will hold until the tacklers are dead or nueted. Currently there are several pirate groups in Jan and Nalvula that can attest to how overpowered speed ships can be. So until the game is fixed and nano**s are dead, I will continue to exploit these fast ships 8). WildCat This man Knows... Originally by:** Korizan This horribly expensive ship setup is only good at killing people who don't know how to fit their ships, or for running away. The second someone throws a cap injector onto a Huginn/Rapier or brings a Neut-Apoc/Curse/whatever, there's gonna be some trouble. Nanos work because people are too stubborn to counter them and insist CCP remove them from the game instead. And for those who are saying 'zomg nanos overpowered!'; that setup costs almost 9000m ISK. Would you rather face one poor-DPS nano-Machariel that will drop awesome loot, 10 fully fitted Carriers, or 140+ gank/plated Armageddons? If ISK did not matter, everyone and their dog would be flying a Titan/Mothership and EVE would be dead. It's a joke to say it should have no effect on balance. If you spend 100x more on your ship than the other guy, then you should have an advantage over them. This isn't Hello Kitty Online, deal with it. This man does not. Always where your seatbelt, its far harder for the aliens to abduct you!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.18 19:08:00 - [85] Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 19:08:25 Originally by: DHB WildCat Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 12:55:48 Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 12:28:03 1) Orange text still makes you look like a pretenetious ***.. the contents of the text further compund this 2) Now we know why you went all prissy in the mwd cloak thread... beacause you use the mwd cloak trick 3) The mach, whilst nice, is easily killable by a small specialised gang... and yes i do have one (edit ... mach that is). SKUNK Lol I have a stalker troll 8). 1) I like the orange dont be mad because you cant do it or didnt think of it. 2) Ask the BE guys or the 0utbreak guys if BE isnt good enough for you. I am a firefighter I never have a dya off. If the tones drop I have to drop everything Im doing and go. Now if this means I am in 0.0 or low sec with no staion am I supposed to just go afk, while a cov-ops probes me down!? I dont fing think so, so if you dare question my intentions of a cloak due to my profession then you sir can go to hell. 3)The mach is also unkillable by a pilot that watches local, knows the gang make-up, has his alt in the backup plan like I also do. Bring any gang you want, I will engage it. I would like to see you catch it, then try to hold it. WildCat 1) I 'didnt think' of using orange text... rofl. Thats seriously sad. Damn, i wish Id thought of using orange text for all my posts to show how seriously WACKY and CRAZY and INDIVIDUAL, I am... BEEP BEEP... IM CWAZY 2) Why should i wish to 'ask the BE or Outbreak' guys what job you do... who the hell are they ( a selection of varied online spachsip game players). Why do i care what your job is? Your job means abosolutley nothing to me.. and people who use the "WHAT IF THE PHONE RINGS,, WHAT IF MY BOSS WALKS IN" type of excuse in this game for whatever reason.. they need to turn it off and play during their own time (though apparantly you NEVER have a day off... id have a word with the unions about that if I were you ;-) You job (and your stated dependance on a cloak for when you are called away to work) also does not mean you dont abuse the cloaked trick you were so randomly defending in antoher thread. 3) So your 1 man pwn mobile now has perfect intel and a selection of alts to back him up. But yes - still killable, though I suspect your downfall isnt in the ship setup.. but in your bloated ego. SKUNK Oh, and if responding to your posts counts as trolling, Ill leave you alone then :)
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.18 19:09:00 - [86] On a related note, can someone quantify invincibility in EVE PvP? For example, here's 1 possible quntification: 1) the ship spent 2400 hours in space (100 days) 2) the ship has killed more than 20 other ships 3) the ship was fired upon by 100 different ships 4) the above 3 conditions were met by at least 75% of the people who used same ship with similar setup If all 4 conditions are met, we have invincibility. We can then analyze server logs to see what ships fit the criteria. With solid data, we can make reasonable arguements about adjusting game balance. I think some titans may fall under my definition of being invincible. But first, lets decide on the proper quantifiable definition of invincibility.
Wylker Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.18 19:14:00 - [87] Posting in a Wildcat self-fellatio thread.
floater666	Posted - 2008.02.18 20:07:00 - [88] Oh well this is another communist thread, where cheap****s cry that they dont have ISK and want to take away the rich's toys. Go read history books or grow a brain, because you fail!
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.18 20:31:00 - [89] Originally by: Heritor Durr Every single of his kills has a Falcon and/or Hyena and or Scorpion on the mail, with other supporting nano-ships like Ishtars/etc. Always has command ships in gang with supporting links. He also has lost his pod numerous times. People look at this and say 'zomg, solo pwn mobile'. It is not. It's DPS is pathetic, the tank is weak, and it has poor agility for a nano-ship. When you have a Falcon/Hyena/Claymore/Damnation(maybe) and supporting Ishtars/Ravens/whatever waiting on standby, that is a whole ton of resources and players required to make a ship like this work. If you have a Claymore, Domination WD, and overload it, it is still not going to help the fact that your align time is 10/15sec (MWD off/on) while you're going 27km/s. If you manually adjust speed I can see you staying in range, but given lag delay and whatnot, I am very skeptical. Also regarding non-snaked vs snaked Crows/Vagabonds in deaths; there is no difference in damage reduction between the two variants, as both going their MWD speed will take 0 damage from missiles, outrun drones, and be incredibly difficult to track. They can also escape quickly enough from Rapiers/Curses/Neut ships that appear while warping in, just like snaked ships can. There should be no deaths whatsoever, if speed does truly grant 'invincibility'.
Lena Kanto	Posted - 2008.02.18 20:38:00 - [90] All I know is, yes this ship pwns. Pwns what? T1 or T2 fitted ships. A proper gang with faction equipment like this mach will kill it, 600dps isn't hard to tank, let alone spider-tank, and some neut won't hurt any ship that's being transferred energy. Sure, it's effective, but look at the costs. I can't say it's that overpowered, don't draw that conclusion by taking it against a bunch of ships each 10 times as cheap. It's like comparing a man vs 5 children, what do you expect? Put a man vs 5 man, then you can say it's overpowered if you win. Have fun with your Mach.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.19 10:38:00 - [91] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/02/2008 10:38:58 Originally by: Lena Kanto All I know is, yes this ship pwns. Pwns what? T1 or T2 fitted ships. A proper gang with faction equipment like this mach will kill it, I doubt a pimp speed Mach pilot is going to pvp a gang of multiple pimp speed Mach pilots setup to kill him. Sorry, I just dont see it. All I would see is wait 30 sec cloaked at gate to clear session timmer, MWD to gate jump though before the other side locks. And before you talk about fast locking to put on 10 webs befoe he mwd's to gate, remember, I am BNC, we are masters of Fast Locking. I am telling you now, you aint going to lock a competent pilot and put enough webs on fast enough to matter. -- Billion Isk Mission
LVirus Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2008.02.19 10:59:00 - [92] its okish, but my mach is still better. Also for the people that are screaming for nerf, plz run correct gangs and you have 0 problems with nanoships. Gangs full off useless crapships deserve to get slaughtered.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.19 11:27:00 - [93] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Heritor Durr Every single of his kills has a Falcon and/or Hyena and or Scorpion on the mail, with other supporting nano-ships like Ishtars/etc. Always has command ships in gang with supporting links. He also has lost his pod numerous times. This. Practically any faction/deadspace/officer-fit BS + good gang with ECM support + target selection + ganglinked CS = invunerability. Would you try to roll over another gang with (non-nano if you want to) deadspace/faction/officer-fit battleships supported by ECM supported by a ganglinked claymore (with interdiction+rapid deployment)? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
baltec1	Posted - 2008.02.19 11:41:00 - [94] This is a great ship but personaly I dont want one. Sure its fast and can wipe out alot of ships in a short amount of time but at 4-5 billion its just too many eggs in one basket and I would be petrified flying it. 2-3 bombers with proper fittings can cause alot more carnage and are a hell of alot cheaper to replace when something goes wrong I dont see these ships as overpowered at all. Like all ships it will eventualy die.
Kael D'mende Homo Victor	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:24:00 - [95] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 19:08:25 Originally by: DHB WildCat Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 12:55:48 Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/02/2008 12:28:03 1) Orange text still makes you look like a pretenetious ***.. the contents of the text further compund this 2) Now we know why you went all prissy in the mwd cloak thread... beacause you use the mwd cloak trick 3) The mach, whilst nice, is easily killable by a small specialised gang... and yes i do have one (edit ... mach that is). SKUNK Lol I have a stalker troll 8). 1) I like the orange dont be mad because you cant do it or didnt think of it. 2) Ask the BE guys or the 0utbreak guys if BE isnt good enough for you. I am a firefighter I never have a dya off. If the tones drop I have to drop everything Im doing and go. Now if this means I am in 0.0 or low sec with no staion am I supposed to just go afk, while a cov-ops probes me down!? I dont fing think so, so if you dare question my intentions of a cloak due to my profession then you sir can go to hell. 3)The mach is also unkillable by a pilot that watches local, knows the gang make-up, has his alt in the backup plan like I also do. Bring any gang you want, I will engage it. I would like to see you catch it, then try to hold it. WildCat 1) I 'didnt think' of using orange text... rofl. Thats seriously sad. Damn, i wish Id thought of using orange text for all my posts to show how seriously WACKY and CRAZY and INDIVIDUAL, I am... BEEP BEEP... IM CWAZY 2) Why should i wish to 'ask the BE or Outbreak' guys what job you do... who the hell are they ( a selection of varied online spachsip game players). Why do i care what your job is? Your job means abosolutley nothing to me.. and people who use the "WHAT IF THE PHONE RINGS,, WHAT IF MY BOSS WALKS IN" type of excuse in this game for whatever reason.. they need to turn it off and play during their own time (though apparantly you NEVER have a day off... id have a word with the unions about that if I were you ;-) You job (and your stated dependance on a cloak for when you are called away to work) also does not mean you dont abuse the cloaked trick you were so randomly defending in antoher thread. 3) So your 1 man pwn mobile now has perfect intel and a selection of alts to back him up. But yes - still killable, though I suspect your downfall isnt in the ship setup.. but in your bloated ego. SKUNK Oh, and if responding to your posts counts as trolling, Ill leave you alone then :) TouchT ? :) tbh any billion isk ship with proper support and knowledge of game mechanism, can pwn. why this has been posted and not just send to who ever was so interested, one can only guess.. just keep spreading the love ;O) Regards. /Kael
Vrabac Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:36:00 - [96] Ok if I got it right, problem is that it can, while going 15km/s, still tank 1000 or so dps? That does sound too much, I agree with that. But tbh active non buffer 1000dps tank evaporates when primaried by anything serious. You say you neutralize the webbers or fof jammers to death well from what I saw 1000dps tanks die before large neutralizer does second cycle let alone before fof missiles kill anything with an extender. IMO if you really got webbed and got out of it alive "they" did something wrong, or which is more probable, "they" were composed of the same crap-dps-nano thingies and couldnt really do any notable amount of damage to take you down. Which is probably the case because nanoships are as popular as they are which is again related to the problem you are referring to. So... yeah.
eXtas Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:06:00 - [97] its still a good ship but not even close like it was when istabs where pwn but any good pilot flying a bs with heavy neuts is a pain to takle for smaller ships... not to talk about those damn neutron throns... just nerf speed, webbs and neuts... and lets have loot automaticly handed over to ppl camping gates and flying in blobs because to play eve you should have atleast 2 alts to scout and stuff or you suck at it... --------
Original Copy	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:20:00 - [98] Originally by: HarderThisTime Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 20:22:48 speed tanking is ridiculously broken and ccp hasn't acknowledged it yet You shouldn't need a rapier inty and 2 BS to kill a mach. No amount of isk justifies it. True. And that gang would not stand a chance. You need about 4 rapiers w/ speedsetups & skirmish fit command ship & 3-4 BS to have half a chance in hell of scratching this boat's paint. But if you did they'd drop a half dozen capitals on you. Originally by: HarderThisTime IMO the problem is snake sets. If snake sets are balanced then I guess it wouldn't be unbalanced to have a set that powerful for everything in the game. Perfect balance for snake sets - don't change the speed bonus. Remove the attribute bonuses. If they want ga-ga speed, make their skill progression suffer. And increase the attribute bonuses on sets that utterly suck (halo/talisman).
Longtime Luver Amarr HOMELESS. Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:14:00 - [99] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz7F1nT3qE8&feature=related go to this link and watch Homeless. kill nanofaggs Loving them all, one at a time please.
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:00:00 - [100] Speed has always been the biggest game mechanic that broke things. I don't know why they keep introducing speed based aspects. MWD stacking Oversized ABs/stacking and MWDs nano's implants gang skills I think right now the biggest problem is the speed implants... they need to be removed tbh. A simple 3% and 5% hard wire is all that should be allowed. Not a stacking monster. nice setup DHB Signature removed as the text contains language other than English. Please note that all signatures need to conform to forum rules and be in English only - Valorem Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:44:00 - [101] Originally by: slip66 Speed has always been the biggest game mechanic that broke things. I don't know why they keep introducing speed based aspects. MWD stacking Oversized ABs/stacking and MWDs nano's implants gang skills I think right now the biggest problem is the speed implants... they need to be removed tbh. A simple 3% and 5% hard wire is all that should be allowed. Not a stacking monster. nice setup DHB Removing speed implants means no more nano-setups that work well for Amarr/Caldari/Gallente, period, since they can't break the speeds that reduce missile damage without them. And at what point do you stop? Officer and deadspace modules allow for ridiculous tanks, slave sets for crazy passive buffers, etc. If snakes were to be removed, then so should every single faction, deadspace, and officer item as well because they are equally as imbalanced in regards to what you can get out of standard T2 gear. There is a huge difference between a Battleship tanking 900 DPS T2 fit or 2900+ DPS deadspace fit. Snake sets are fine. Very few people can actively afford to fly around with 4b of implants in their head. A single lag spike, mistake, 'session change in progress', properly setup gang, CTD, black screen, another nano-ship/dictor combo, etc, and your day has just been ruined. A nomad set and an iStab for this setup would serve it far better. 27km/s is borderline useless. A Vagabond going 10km/s with an iStab and 2 polycarbons will be pushed out to 30km orbit. A Machariel going such a speed without any iStabs is going to be significantly farther.
Knoetje	Posted - 2008.02.20 03:12:00 - [102] Wildcat is so cool, I worship him now with his uber **ty orange text. I didn't read half of what he's written because it hurts my eyes so I read what everyone else has written instead, I don't find his orange epeen stroking funny or that it makes him look half as intelligent as he thinks he is. Those who whine about faction items being overpowered need to stop whining. A repairer that costs 1.5m (T2) is obviously going to be better than one that costs 500k (T1) unless you mean all items should be nerfed and brought inline with the cheapest t1. That also counts for ships and everything else too, didn't think of it that way? Stop posting. What makes me laugh is the claim that this a so called 'anti-blob' weapon. It takes a blob to destroy it so it invalidates its own purpose, well done to that. I know another anti-blob weapon: another blob. The one argument I do think is valid is the speed this thing goes but then he already mentioned it's through overloading and gang support so if you take his gang support down he will lose some of that speed. You then have the problem that gang support can be given by anyone sitting anywhere in the system. Titans were nerfed and I think gang support also needs a nerf because this kind of gang support isn't fair. I do agree that bs's should never be able to go this fast but then on the other hand we have the problem of implants and modules. If you have the money and you are willing to spend it should you get 'invincibility' in return? I think once gang support's been changed and the Eos's giving speed support have been taken down then it will be a little different. However the speed at which this goes does need changing because we're going back to Nanophoon setups which were unfair and stupid. This is damned expensive but not less stupid so CCP need to nerf this a little. I'm a Goon Titan alt, don't tell anyone.**
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.20 03:15:00 - [103] to;dr too orange, didn't read --
Selous Ooops Inc. Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.02.24 16:34:00 - [104] I saw his cruise version of this in action last night , quite impressive. I was sitting cloaked off the hek gate in otou , relaying info about a "the united" gate camp . When wildcat jumped in there was 5 united on the gate , he engaged them , was orbiting at about 5.5kms , then stopped off the gate , was subjected to the usual united smacktalk , then engaged again . The united started warping off the gate , so i warped in with my rapier to try hold any stragglers at the gate . When I arrived at the gate there was 1 drake left , I locked him , but he was already about to enter structure , my contribution to this kill was superflous and totaly unneccessary , I hit him with about 2 salvos so although I am on the killmail it really was solo kill ( but I did get his pod ). It was impressive to see the macha at work . It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if woodbine had been online ( he flies an aeon mom ship for united ) , as they will hotdrop the mom on a solo domi ( it escaped ) they probably would drop it on the macha .
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:13:00 - [105] Originally by: ExcellciuM Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Osku Rei Edited by: Osku Rei on 17/02/2008 16:57:26 According to EFT the ship would be going 4706KM/s with all level V skills. How you got it up to 15km/s is a mystery to me, care to elaborate? offline the cloak and add a fully skilled claymore pilot and snake implants. Silly EFT warriors LOL. BUT EFT says no. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:18:00 - [106] TBH I dont see the problem. If you have that much isk invested I hope it wont be easy to kill. The right gang catches you and you will die, maybe still at a high cost but it can happen. But until then happy hunting. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Auron Shadowbane Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:51:00 - [107] Originally by: HarderThisTime Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 20:22:48 speed tanking is ridiculously broken and ccp hasn't acknowledged it yet You shouldn't need a rapier inty and 2 BS to kill a mach. No amount of isk justifies it. right so show me a way to kill a propperly flown and fitted carrier (worth half that mach) with less than you need to kill that mach. or what about telling me a way how to kill a crystall&faction-tanked golem with less than your gang worth of dps? you see there is many things in eve where brain&money >> blob if you remove that part you remove the intentive for many pvpers to play. and the pvp capabilities of a ship shouldnt care anyone but those pvp anyway.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.24 18:13:00 - [108] Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 24/02/2008 18:14:10 Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated TBH I dont see the problem. If you have that much isk invested I hope it wont be easy to kill. The right gang catches you and you will die, maybe still at a high cost but it can happen. But until then happy hunting. 4 bil is nothing nowadays. Average pvp setup costs aorund 200mil, and invincibility is priceless. Speed is broken. That ship is 100% immune to all missile damage and tracking for guns will miss. A competent pilot wont make stupid newbie mistakes and thus, he has a i-win button. 2 x core-x large reps running is OMG WTF tank ontop of a OmGETF speed tank that makes him immune to all missiles. Originally by: CCP kieron ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.02.24 20:51:00 - [109] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane Originally by: HarderThisTime Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/02/2008 20:22:48 speed tanking is ridiculously broken and ccp hasn't acknowledged it yet You shouldn't need a rapier inty and 2 BS to kill a mach. No amount of isk justifies it. right so show me a way to kill a propperly flown and fitted carrier (worth half that mach) with less than you need to kill that mach. or what about telling me a way how to kill a crystall&faction-tanked golem with less than your gang worth of dps? you see there is many things in eve where brain&money >> blob if you remove that part you remove the intentive for many pvpers to play. and the pvp capabilities of a ship shouldnt care anyone but those pvp anyway. The problem with your comparison, is that a carrier is relatively easy to pin down with 'a couple' of ships. Maybe even one. (I think I can get a heavy 'dictor to the point of being able to tank a all the DPS of a carrier's fighters) At least, for long enough for your re-inforcements to arrive. And arrive they will, when you shout 'hay guys, I have a carrier scrambled, come help kill it'. The same's true of a massively pimped up battleship. Maybe you've got the state issue raven, with an estamels tank on it. tanks well, does good damage. But still gets pinned, and dies, and actually it doesn't take all -that- much to overwhelm it. Compare a relative investment in a speed fit though, and it's relative survivability. The only reason faction tank mods have any value at all, is because you can use them in missions. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Pantaloon McPants	Posted - 2008.02.24 21:05:00 - [110] Edited by: Pantaloon McPants on 24/02/2008 21:06:07 wow. news at 11, 5+ billion isk setup kicks some ass. poasting in colors cos i want everyone to notice how cool i am. if people can kill 90billion isk titans they can kill this ****
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2008.02.24 22:30:00 - [111] Originally by: P'uck holy eff. why is this going 15km/s? thats FAST oO and it tanks too ffs! oh, and, ye, orange text sucks For how much it cost him, I really don't have any gripes. Regardless of how much it would kick my ass.
Sgt Napalm Synergy Fundacion	Posted - 2008.02.24 22:47:00 - [112] DHB WildCat: And you wondered why I would not engage you outside A-E. Your a clever pilot with +50% to fear tank. Nice set up. Takes balls to post it up too.
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.02.24 22:59:00 - [113] Edited by: McDonALTs on 24/02/2008 22:59:11 Originally by: Grendelsbane Originally by: P'uck holy eff. why is this going 15km/s? thats FAST oO and it tanks too ffs! oh, and, ye, orange text sucks For how much it cost him, I really don't have any gripes. Regardless of how much it would kick my ass. Cost is irrelevant. Run a noobcorp with 20-30 members ratting a few hours a day and you make 4-5bil a week minimum.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Organized Combat Consortium Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 23:55:00 - [114] I was thinking about typing something like "stfu, that's the most ******** idea ever"...Then I saw he's from BURN EDEN...still thinking about it though..
ProjectSeven Minmatar Rulers Of Mankind Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 00:58:00 - [115] ok boys, lets be sure to post with our mains before flaming. that annoys the **** out of me. you guys are like the candy ass f*ggots that yell out your car on the freeway aren't you? nice setup by the way DBH. If you spend that much money on a ship and setup (not to mention extensive experience pvp'ing and working with game mechanics) you should be able to tear people a new one. -sig- RoM recruiting
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.25 01:28:00 - [116] If you completly destroy nano-fittings or speed-tanking you will gimp most if not all Frig typ ships to level where they are absolut useless. Interceptors, E-War-Frigs and many other have just one defence and that's speed. Even some Cruiser-size ships need this speed to compet like most Minmatar. If there is a problem with big ships or general ships that are "normaly not intendet to be nanoed" it must be done very carefully.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.25 05:54:00 - [117] Don't have any real 0.0 PVP experience to comment on the balance of this setup... But I've heard some people say "nerf speed, nerf nanos, nerf webs" or something like that. Basically, the idea is that you wouldn't be able to reach these wtfomgcrazy speeds anymore, but a web wouldn't be an unconditional "Iwin" button
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:56:00 - [118] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 25/02/2008 05:58:01 Don't have any real 0.0 PVP experience to comment on the balance of this setup... But I've heard some people say "nerf speed, nerf nanos, nerf webs" or something like that. Basically, the idea is that you wouldn't be able to reach these wtfomgcrazy speeds anymore, but a web wouldn't be an unconditional "Iwin" button. Solution is simple. Boost Webs to tripple or quadruple range. 30-40km range minimum. Nano pvp solved. People can nano, but have to take risk if they want to pvp in immune to ddamage speed tanks.
Sorum Daemoth Insidious Existence	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:12:00 - [119] all i have to say is arazu, rapier, curse. arazu's damps the mach down to 14km lock range rapier deul web's him and curse neuts him, and its easy to sneak up on him with cloaks and a decent gang leader. You get a dead mach with good loot *You just got WTF EXIT ganked!*
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:13:00 - [120] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov I was thinking about typing something like "stfu, that's the most ******** idea ever"...Then I saw he's from BURN EDEN...still thinking about it though.. One important thing you should realize that he is talking about how a Claymore with speed gang mods and Falcon are absolute must-haves for his Mach to pvp. He's also giving you speeds he gets with overheated MWD. These are some important factors to consider. If everyone had their own command ship with maxed gang mods and their own falcon in addition to any other ship of choice, things would start looking more balanced. Overall, I don't believe that we need a nano-nerf. If A Burn Eden guy can prove that what he is doing is ridulously overpowered, then we should just agree to nerf him, not other people who aren't overpowered when they fly nano mach. Nerfing a specific person is a ridiculous idea, of course. But so is the idea of nerfing everyone when 1 player has something overpowered.
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:36:00 - [121] Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 25/02/2008 23:37:02 Originally by: Sorum Daemoth all i have to say is arazu, rapier, curse. arazu's damps the mach down to 14km lock range rapier deul web's him and curse neuts him, and its easy to sneak up on him with cloaks and a decent gang leader. You get a dead mach with good loot Pilot is not Idiot!!! Pilot orbits the curse outside nos range at 32-45km with scram on rapier. Fires cruise at rapier and neuts rapier. Rapier down, curse sitting duck like idiot. If curse somehow gets neuts on, then Mach pilot has TS cap booster and can focus on killing. Remember - Pilot is not Idiot! If Pilot sees 20 rapiers and 20 curse's, Pilot will MWD back to gate in 0.1 second and jump though. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2008.02.26 19:31:00 - [122] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 26/02/2008 19:31:05 Originally by: HarderThisTime Originally by: Dr Paithos <general ** posting> yeah i try :bunchies: Quote: I love it when pubbies prove their pubbiness by pretending that having expectations of invincibility is real pvp. You get blown up and podded in real pvp. Plain and simple. Everyone does. If I planned to not get blown up, then i'd fit WCS or nano+snake out a fast ship like the rest of the chicken **s. And for the last time, I am ok with loss. EVERYONE who's opinion is worth a damn in this thread is ok with loss. If you aren't, you shouldn't undock. So you're continual blabbing on about how to avoid death from a nano-ship is just proof of a failure at reading comprehension. The problem, that we're "whining" about, is the inability to kill something/someone (particularly cruisers and larger) without heavy investment in implants. And if you think un-implanted, un-officer fitted, inties can match a snaked and heated nano hac, then, well, you haven't done the math. of course i'm ok with loss i play eve the problem is to achieve something in gang you need to still be alive you can't achieve much in a pod except smack local (which is pretty awesome i admit) i'm glad you've calmed down a bit and are making some actual points rather than just smacking this guy because he's rich and goes to great lengths to not die right anyway to my point i have one at least oh yeah if you stay alive you get more chances to get a web on/generally do something useful if you just die you pretty much blew it unless you have a lot of backup ships in system i never said unsnaked inties could match snaked faction/officer hacs thing is almost everyone dies sooner or later because they screw up and someone webs/neuts/whatever. mostly you don't need to be quite as fast you just need to tackle and hold for just long enough. this may well need multiple inties for people who don't screw up/have enough backup plans so when they mess up they can still win then yeah they are pretty much uncatchable i agree with your point but jeez it took you long enough to make it

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More proof the game needs viable 24-30km websYou scrambled? Then web the bast!

More proof the game needs viable 24-30km webs

You scrambled? Then web the bast!