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Xar Zhun	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:01:00 - [31] Its sad to say but i look at this post and the antiwhiners and the antinerfers all seem to fall into the 2 years plus catagory. Thats the damn problem, when you guys started playing EVE was just about scrapping 10k players (if you take away the multi accounters) Now your talking 200k subs (prob break that down to 5% trial 50% single acct and 45% alts) its a totally different situation. Things that were bearable with a small playerbase just aint with a larger base (yes the 27km/s is totally unbearable and scientifically stupid) as the OP said - suck it up or go away - thats been the ethos thru out eve's life, now its affecting the Old players/PVP brigade they are whining about whining :) Irony, the only power in the universe
Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Originally by: Avon Remember what happened to Ultima Online? Yeah, exactly. Those were exactly my thoughts. Too bad that CCP doesn't see following UO's footsteps as a mistake. Then again, from a financial pov it probably isn't a mistake to dumb things down so the game becomes more mainstream. It's your own problem that we don't want mainstream. There. I've corrected it for you But tbh you're absolutely correct. CCP is a company and it will always go where the money is. If you want to start your own company and develop a niche MMORPG that never gets more than a few thousand subscribers then nothing's stopping you trying. All you have to do is find a bunch of developers, graphics artists, IT specialists, equipment manufacturers, ISPs and various others who will be happy to be paid in hopes and aspirations rather than hard cash. Welcome to the real world -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Roy Gordon Caldari Caldari Advanced Response Division G Thanks Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:26:00 - [33] There is a game out there which is currently in development, by fans for fans. Its called 'Infinity'. It will be interesting to see if the same moans and groans appear on its forums once its been up and running for awhile as appear here. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Xar Zhun Its sad to say but i look at this post and the antiwhiners and the antinerfers all seem to fall into the 2 years plus catagory. Not me. I've been playing since 18.2.2004 and I still love the game. It's great to see it develop and flourish. I think CCP are doing a good job in keeping it interesting. It's no surprise to me that the hardcore PvPers are whining a bit. Those are people that crave excitement and the novelty soon wears off. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:29:00 - [35] Originally by: Andrue All you have to do is find a bunch of developers, graphics artists, IT specialists, equipment manufacturers, ISPs and various others who will be happy to be paid in hopes and aspirations rather than hard cash. You seem to forget that CCP also started out small and still was able to pay their staff (I'd assume). And if EVE should become "too" mainstream (aka WoW clone number 4296), then someone else will move into the niche. Guess which game I'll be playing then.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Andrue It's no surprise to me that the hardcore PvPers are whining a bit. Those are people that crave excitement and the novelty soon wears off. No, most of us want for CCP to stop nerfing the game so much. There are situations where nerfing is needed, but it seems like lately they are getting carried away with all the nerfinf. Some things they change that nobody even whined about, completely out of the blue.
Gemini Zero Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Rells Over the last few major patches decisions have clearly been made based upon whine level on the forums and in half considered matters. Rells whines about the way the market works: Linkage ...dev's change market Rells whines about invincible motherships: Linkage ...dev's introduce heavy dictors ending the invincible mothership Rells whines about regularly spawning complexes: Linkage ...dev's change complexes to explorable content making them more accessible to the masses Rells whines about speed battleships, weak amarr ships, remote DD detonation, t2 bpo lotto, and carrier jumping of supplies Linkage ...devs nerfed speed mods, boosted amarr, nerfed remote dd, removed the lotto, and nerfed carrier jumping of supplies Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far...
Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:27:00 - [38] Edited by: Andrue on 21/02/2008 14:28:23 Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Originally by: Andrue All you have to do is find a bunch of developers, graphics artists, IT specialists, equipment manufacturers, ISPs and various others who will be happy to be paid in hopes and aspirations rather than hard cash. You seem to forget that CCP also started out small and still was able to pay their staff (I'd assume). And if EVE should become "too" mainstream (aka WoW clone number 4296), then someone else will move into the niche. Guess which game I'll be playing then. You seem to be overlooking the fact that CCP didn't make a profit at first. As with a lot of companies they had outside investment to get them going. Some of that investment (probably quite a large amount) was used to pay the staff. It took them several years to actually turn a profit. The truth of the matter is that most humans don't like playing vicious, backstabbing MMORPGs. People play MMORPGs to get away from reality and only a small number of people would choose to live in a reality as mean and harsh as low-sec or 0.0. You could probably create a small MMORPG without having to worry too much about profit but it would be slow going. If you did manage to release it further changes would be equally slow. Personally I think it would fail because of an imbalance between the hunters and the hunted. As it stands Eve looks to be well balanced in that respect. Enough victims for the predators to survive but not so many predators as to wipe out the prey. The game you want would have to maintain that same ratio. As for you moving to another game, I'm sure you will. The only point I'm making here is that Eve is doing very well and expecting CCP to have a change of heart and start making it nasty again is a waste of time. It is what it is because if you want a long term game (and why else bother with an MMORPG) you have to cater for the carebears. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Gemini Zero Originally by: Rells Over the last few major patches decisions have clearly been made based upon whine level on the forums and in half considered matters. Rells whines about the way the market works: Linkage ...dev's change market Rells whines about invincible motherships: Linkage ...dev's introduce heavy dictors ending the invincible mothership Rells whines about regularly spawning complexes: Linkage ...dev's change complexes to explorable content making them more accessible to the masses Rells whines about speed battleships, weak amarr ships, remote DD detonation, t2 bpo lotto, and carrier jumping of supplies Linkage ...devs nerfed speed mods, boosted amarr, nerfed remote dd, removed the lotto, and nerfed carrier jumping of supplies Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... Ladies and Gentlemen we've got a thread WINNARR! Gemini Zero wins a signed autobiography from Rells, a weeks holiday in Jita (expenses paid) and a fridge magnet Dont forget to tune in next week folks for the chance to win BIG!! canned applause C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Karash Amerius Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:08:00 - [40] TomB remembers what happened to UO...where the hell has he been? Does he even work for CCP anymore? I miss his STFU attitude to the ship/module whiners. "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Nahh Seems like ambulation is what gets the most resources while balance and game play get Zulupark. Yeah, gameplay pulled the short straw in that department for sure.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Gemini Zero Originally by: Rells Over the last few major patches decisions have clearly been made based upon whine level on the forums and in half considered matters. Rells whines about the way the market works: Linkage ...dev's change market Rells whines about invincible motherships: Linkage ...dev's introduce heavy dictors ending the invincible mothership Rells whines about regularly spawning complexes: Linkage ...dev's change complexes to explorable content making them more accessible to the masses Rells whines about speed battleships, weak amarr ships, remote DD detonation, t2 bpo lotto, and carrier jumping of supplies Linkage ...devs nerfed speed mods, boosted amarr, nerfed remote dd, removed the lotto, and nerfed carrier jumping of supplies Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... Ouch. That's such a comprehensive, definitive putdown that this must be a Tarminic alt.
Kaar Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Gemini Zero Originally by: Rells Over the last few major patches decisions have clearly been made based upon whine level on the forums and in half considered matters. Rells whines about the way the market works: Linkage ...dev's change market Rells whines about invincible motherships: Linkage ...dev's introduce heavy dictors ending the invincible mothership Rells whines about regularly spawning complexes: Linkage ...dev's change complexes to explorable content making them more accessible to the masses Rells whines about speed battleships, weak amarr ships, remote DD detonation, t2 bpo lotto, and carrier jumping of supplies Linkage ...devs nerfed speed mods, boosted amarr, nerfed remote dd, removed the lotto, and nerfed carrier jumping of supplies Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... lol i was thinking the same. You fail rells. --- ---
mishkof Caldari Shadows of Valor Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Gemini Zero Originally by: Rells Over the last few major patches decisions have clearly been made based upon whine level on the forums and in half considered matters. Rells whines about the way the market works: Linkage ...dev's change market Rells whines about invincible motherships: Linkage ...dev's introduce heavy dictors ending the invincible mothership Rells whines about regularly spawning complexes: Linkage ...dev's change complexes to explorable content making them more accessible to the masses Rells whines about speed battleships, weak amarr ships, remote DD detonation, t2 bpo lotto, and carrier jumping of supplies Linkage ...devs nerfed speed mods, boosted amarr, nerfed remote dd, removed the lotto, and nerfed carrier jumping of supplies Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... lol, silly whiners. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Andrue As it stands Eve looks to be well balanced in that respect. Enough victims for the predators to survive but not so many predators as to wipe out the prey. The game you want would have to maintain that same ratio. As for you moving to another game, I'm sure you will. The only point I'm making here is that Eve is doing very well and expecting CCP to have a change of heart and start making it nasty again is a waste of time. It is what it is because if you want a long term game (and why else bother with an MMORPG) you have to cater for the carebears. I agree with you on all the other points. However, I'm not asking for EVE to become meaner. If it was my choice (and it clearly isn't) I wouldn't want the game to become softer. There are more than enough carebears to keep the economy running, and we all know they're a large part of the economic backbone. But if the game undergoes several more HelloKittyfications, the type of players that make the game fun for me would thin out. And then it's only a matter of time that EVE ends up being a WoW clone. The whole point is with all people complaining about their inability to cope with, say nano-ships, they're not unable to stop them because there is no way to do so, but because they're unable to adapt. The tools are there, but they refuse to change their fleets/setups/tactics to cope with the new challenges. If these complaints lead to CCP nerfing aspects yet again, add some more iterations of similar situations until the game actively punishes creativity and flexibility while rewarding stubborness, lack of imagination, and worst of all whining.
Zagum Darkfin Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:34:00 - [46] What do you speak of this PVP game thingie?? I thought this was a turn based space simulation Trade Game? You mean you get to fly around and shoot other players in real live action without waiting to take your turn?? Wow what a concept, instead of mining, trading, and agent running we can have fun testing our wits against stations and guns or sometimes other players. Too bad there are more interesting stuff to do than stare at a black screen waiting to "load". I don't need 30 minutes to decide on my next move. You are sure you not pulling my leg about this player verses player game? ..i..
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:03:00 - [47] Originally by: Gemini Zero Originally by: Rells Over the last few major patches decisions have clearly been made based upon whine level on the forums and in half considered matters. Rells whines about the way the market works: Linkage ...dev's change market Rells whines about invincible motherships: Linkage ...dev's introduce heavy dictors ending the invincible mothership Rells whines about regularly spawning complexes: Linkage ...dev's change complexes to explorable content making them more accessible to the masses Rells whines about speed battleships, weak amarr ships, remote DD detonation, t2 bpo lotto, and carrier jumping of supplies Linkage ...devs nerfed speed mods, boosted amarr, nerfed remote dd, removed the lotto, and nerfed carrier jumping of supplies Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... This is some of the best internet ownage I've seen in a while. My hats off to you good sir /salute.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Rells ...curious stuff about ignoring comments of the players and listening to whine at the same time... Name one single balance change that doesn't make sense, and you might have a point. I named several in the original post. Oh and by the way, you "quoted" but actually inserted your own content. Disingenuous revisionist quoting for the win? Try integrity next time when quoting me instead of inserting your own words.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Originally by: Avon Remember what happened to Ultima Online? Yeah, exactly. Those were exactly my thoughts. Too bad that CCP doesn't see following UO's footsteps as a mistake. Then again, from a financial pov it probably isn't a mistake to dumb things down so the game becomes more mainstream. It's your own problem that we don't want mainstream. There. I've corrected it for you But tbh you're absolutely correct. CCP is a company and it will always go where the money is. If you want to start your own company and develop a niche MMORPG that never gets more than a few thousand subscribers then nothing's stopping you trying. All you have to do is find a bunch of developers, graphics artists, IT specialists, equipment manufacturers, ISPs and various others who will be happy to be paid in hopes and aspirations rather than hard cash. Welcome to the real world I dont buy the notion that you have to conform to the masses dumb down the game and respond only to whiners to make money. If that were the case Eve would never have made it out of Beta. It did and has grown steadily since then but now with devs like Zulupark CLEARLY having NOT EVEN PLAYED the game, it is going down hill. If you have a vision, people will come to that vision. Do we really need another fast-food joint or "easy MMOG"? What happened to vision and creativity? Down the toilet or the sake of copying cookie cutter solutions. In this post some people are focusing all of their counter energy on this nerf or that, Im not talking about any one of them in specific but the sum of the nerfs and changes. Most specifically Im talking about RADICAL SWEEPING CHANGES being made in the game by pure accident to solve trivial stupid issues like poeple running into each other outside of Jita. Lets just nix the concept of insta-undock so that people dont bunch up outside of jita? You MUST be kidding me! Yet even this is just yet another example. I can come up with more, such as the Amarr ship changes that after thousands of posts and replies and suggestions, CCP devs (oh its Zulupark again I believe) still think the problem is EM resistance levels and the best change to make is to reduce EM resist and nerf tanks across the board. This is DESPITE THOUSANDS of words of posts saying "its the cap usage stupid". The list goes on and on and yet the things that get focused on are the whines. The interesting thing is how these same whiners attack this post as "whining about the whiners." Nice self-supporting logic there. But then I did expect flames so shrug.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:10:00 - [50] ^ small addition to Rells post I can understand the EM armor resistence nerf. I don't like it, but I see it as one of possible solutions. However, I see no reason why shield explosive resistence has to be nerfed. It has nothing to do with boosting Amarr. Shield tanking and armor tanking are similar in name only, specifically in the word "tanking". Game mechanics for those are completely different. There is no existing balance between shield and armor tanking. They are vaguely similar, but there is no direct connection between them. Shield tanking is PvE, armor tanking is PvP. That's the main idea, yes it is possible to mix them, but those are the main patterns of EVE gameplay. What exactly goes on in one's head when they reason a connection between armor tanking EM resistence and shield tanking explosive resistence? Can anyone explain it to me? Is the entire logic really based on the idea that both of them involve tanking and both have 60% default resist on one of the 4 damage types? If someone thinks that lowering EM resist is a boost to Amarr, then wouldn't lowering of shield explosive resist be a boost to Minmatar? by the same surface-level thinking? Sorry if this sounds ranty
Balooshinakus Slug Storm Squadron	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:14:00 - [51] Originally by: Rells The interesting thing is how these same whiners attack this post as "whining about the whiners." Nice self-supporting logic there. But then I did expect flames so shrug. There are several reasons that people flame you Rells, and none of them have anything to do with your ideas, they all have to do with how you present them. Let's see here.. Originally by: Rells This SEWER is driving the game down the road of WOW. Because the people here lack imagination and skill in PvP it is being dumbed down, patch by patch. In case you were wondering, people generally don't respond well to you when you come to their home and tell them it's the sewer. Politicians don't run for office and say "This country is the sewer, you guys are all idiots, VOTE FOR ME!!1!" and win. If you want anyone to take you seriously, cut the insults. Originally by: Rells Now there are developers making changes to the game that no nothing about the game. In fact I would venture to say some of them have never even played the game. CCP is not going to read through your threads if you start them off by saying the developers are making changes so stupid that there is no possible way they even play the game. Why would they? If you were at work and someone came up to you and said "You're an idiot, why are you using that code for your program, have you ever even programmed before.....?" would you take their advice or tell them to **** off? Rhetorical question. Here's what it boils down to: Your attitude sucks, big time. Nobody is going to take you serious if you come on the forums and tell us that we are all idiots. If you want people to listen to you try taking a more mature attitude about posting.
Troyd23	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:19:00 - [52] Edited by: Troyd23 on 21/02/2008 21:20:00 OP: My concern ( like yours ) is that the game doesn't become ruined by the dev's giving in to the whiners. Star wars galaxies is "dead" proof of this. Lets all hope eve doesn't end up like SWG ._.
Back Again Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:33:00 - [53] Originally by: Gemini Zero Originally by: Rells Over the last few major patches decisions have clearly been made based upon whine level on the forums and in half considered matters. Rells whines about the way the market works: Linkage ...dev's change market Rells whines about invincible motherships: Linkage ...dev's introduce heavy dictors ending the invincible mothership Rells whines about regularly spawning complexes: Linkage ...dev's change complexes to explorable content making them more accessible to the masses Rells whines about speed battleships, weak amarr ships, remote DD detonation, t2 bpo lotto, and carrier jumping of supplies Linkage ...devs nerfed speed mods, boosted amarr, nerfed remote dd, removed the lotto, and nerfed carrier jumping of supplies Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... Ouch! That really hurts! I'm curious if there will be some debate and argument to counter this or some explanation... That reminds me of what happened to the character Jenny (you know who I'm talking about) and the several owners that came to the forum to talk about their ideas and confused us all. No signature here, only the bright light of a ship exploding right in front of me... Ohhh, wait, I'm in a pod!! It was my ship!!!
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:38:00 - [54] The whole issue is not so much the nerfing as the way the nerfing is done in; it's done without consideration of the wider game impact or as to what shifts will happen as a result, plus if something is obviously overnerfed it takes 6 months to 1 year to rebalance it into something somewhat usefull again. Then add to that, the lack of trying to avoid nerfing and changing stuff through giving love to other parts which has a far less negative impact on the way game (re)balance is received and perceived by the community. The nerf everything to crap team and lets call it a boost forgets about real life time investement the skillpoint system has, specialicing into a specific direction often means training times of 1 year and another half year to a year to respecialize into something else. Lot's of recent changes have gone from large scale nerfs to game core hitting nerfs like the carrier and base resist nerfs, issues raised on both those matters by the community are simply ignored or shrugged of with a we tested this so it's good (we are smart guys plus our ego > then your knowlegde). Then surprise surprise the effects on live are indeed as predidcted by the community and yet again ignored. If CCP intends the behaviour then fine, say so, however they say they mean it to have other effects then those that are achieved. Chechlist should be imho: 1.) identify issue 2.) identify what intended design was 3.) identify the impacts of the issue on community 4.) identify reason for issue 5.) verify reason for issue 6.) verify impact of the issue on the community 7.) verify if issue really is an issue even though intended design might be off 8.) identify possible solutions 9.) sort possible solutions from positive impact on community to negative 10.) see which the most positive solutions are achievable 11.) propose solutions to community through devblog giving multiple options, interact with the community for set period of time (i.e. 7 days) 12.) make choice based on feedback or go back to the drawingboard starting from 1 13.) announce choice made 14.) program the biatch and announce deployment time (ie will be in patch 1.1 or 1.2 right now it feels like it is: 1.) identify issue 2.) sift through years of feedback on it (forgetting the timeframe and environment of that feedback) 3.) think of a way to solve it through nerfing the effect of the issue 4.) have a nerf programed and published on Sisi 5.) announce nerf couple of days later 6.) respond in feedback that you've really thought it through and that people should go to sisi to test it themselves because you assume they wont 7.) ignore valid concerns 8.) bring it live 9.) have a laugh for months to come over your early morning coffee reading the whine threads about it (the more whine threads the better you've nerfed something with each thread giving 10 points and each post 1 point, double the points mods need to intervene, tripple the points if you **ed off someone from goonswarm, minus 100 points for every time someone likes your nerf. 10.) update your points on the internal website (make note to allocate resources to have a dev automate this) and check to see if you are the number one all time nerf devil from hell yet. 11.) ignore the effects the nerf caused for at least 6 months untill you stop scoring points with it and then maybe unnerf it slightly to refule the fire. - - - Originally by:** CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Back Again Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.21 21:54:00 - [55] Originally by: DrAtomic The nerf everything to crap team and lets call it a boost forgets about real life time investement the skillpoint system has, specialicing into a specific direction often means training times of 1 year and another half year to a year to respecialize into something else. I think this is exactly what CCP want us to do, this is a business for them. Unfortunately, for the community, this is not a business and there will be some consequences if these points-of-view start to disagree so much about the game: If the players don't have fun CCP will not have the money. No signature here, only the bright light of a ship exploding right in front of me... Ohhh, wait, I'm in a pod!! It was my ship!!!
El Sombrero	Posted - 2008.02.21 22:08:00 - [56] Edited by: El Sombrero on 21/02/2008 22:08:27 Originally by: Gemini Zero Rells whines ... Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... Wait... I'm confused. Which is it "Gemini Zero Dirty Sexy Pilots" or Linkage
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.21 22:16:00 - [57] Originally by: El Sombrero Edited by: El Sombrero on 21/02/2008 22:08:27 Originally by: Gemini Zero Rells whines ... Are you sure you don't want to rethink your stance on public whine? You sure are doing pretty well so far... Wait... I'm confused. Which is it "Gemini Zero Dirty Sexy Pilots" or Linkage He is ex agony with a publicly professedd desire to destroy AGONY. Wont work but I suppose everyone needs a hobby. Still celebrating over a gank of my interceptor while I was AFK in high sec no doubt. The post isnt even about those specific changes anyway. Its about CCP doing things cluelessly. If they talk long and hard about it and decide to nerf insta-undocks, just as an example, and then blog about it and do it, that is one thing. To accidentally break them to keep people rom bouncing off each other in Jita is just catastrophically misinformed and arbitrary. The nano changes that created the nanophoon are a good example. Despite the repeated warnings by test users of 11k/s battleships, CCP put it in anyway. And now we have Zulupark whom I doubt even played Eve very much before nerfing it and appling clueless "fixes". Oh ya and Im beyond caring about the flaming. Go ahead and flame, it will just bump the thread.
Jason Travers Space 1999	Posted - 2008.02.21 22:19:00 - [58] What I think is funny about this whole post is that it seems all the downhill changes to the game were from whiners. Now the ironic part. Almost all the postings (whines) that got game changes were from the PVP community as most of the board posters are PVPers and they clame itÆs the carebears ruining the game for PVPers when it is actually themselves doing it ROFL.
Gemini Zero Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.02.21 22:25:00 - [59] Originally by: Rells He is ex agony with a publicly professedd desire to destroy AGONY. Wont work but I suppose everyone needs a hobby. For the last time we do not have a desire to destroy Agony, nor have I publicly proclaimed it! Hell I still have some good friends in Agony and I'll still say Agony's basic class is the best thing since sliced bread. We are moving to the other side of the universe, what more proof do you need that we are not out to take down Agony. It's just nice to debate about things openly without fear of repercussions since I'm no longer in corp.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.02.21 22:34:00 - [60] Originally by: Jason Travers What I think is funny about this whole post is that it seems all the downhill changes to the game were from whiners. Now the ironic part. Almost all the postings (whines) that got game changes were from the PVP community as most of the board posters are PVPers and they clame itÆs the carebears ruining the game for PVPers when it is actually themselves doing it ROFL. No, you simply arent understanding. That there are issues in the game... yes. That these issues need to be fixed ... yes. That they should be fixed with kneejerk reactions based upon percieved opinions of the forum posters .... NO. I gave two examples before of poor process. Both of them driven by the whine and both the WRONG solution to the issue at hand and both of them with almost NO CONSIDERATION of their impact on the wider game

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