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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.22 10:57:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Akita T on 22/02/2008 11:04:09
Adding relevant parts you missed from an edit to the quote-in-quote...
 Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Originally by: Akita T
Frame Rate
See subsection "Frame rates in video games"
Flicker fusion threshold
See subsection "Subjectivity of flicker"
[...]
With low FPS it will take some time for an action to realy be displayed on your screen (or even be skiped). With a higher FPS it will be shown faster (and without skip). So in this case yes, the best FPS would be oo (infinity). But your eye stays with this much lower 60 Hz mentioned at the eye-wiki. Some of this "more then 60" will simply be ignored by your eyes/brain even if they are there (useless there).
PS: you can't display more FPS then your display provides Hz. So over 60(61) FPS on TFT = useless. Some CRT can display 100 or 120 Hz, more FPS again are useless.
What helps is Buffering more frames. Some Videodrivers have this option to buffer X-frames (calculate them) but only show the last one.
Well, you're right, for most people, 60 Hz would be more than enough, at least under normal circumstances.
For highly sensitive people however, in certain (very) special circumstances, you might need up to 250Hz to create an illusion they couldn't distinguish from reality.
ALSO, in case you have a software that DOES render internally at 250Hz or above, and calculates "motion blur" before actually displaying any images on-screen, you can get away with a much lower refresh rate.
But you still have that flicker sensitivity issue, and you might need to get above 120Hz refresh rate (even with just 30 FPS of actual displayed data) if you are using a CRT... for LCDs, that's not so much of an issue, since the backlighting frequency is usually at around 200Hz or higher, but on some older LCDs it might not.
So, you were both right and both wrong at the same time 
1|2|3|4|5. |
Tesl
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Posted - 2008.02.22 11:04:00 -
[32]
well i hope they leave wide-screen rez alone, i like my native 1440 x 900
And why cant i use the option of FSAA or AA for that matter, id like to get those jagged edges removed from my screen.
would be nice to see eve in hi def.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.22 11:04:00 -
[33]
Eve doesn't have a list of resolutions, it gets them from your graphics card's list. You can add whatever resolution you like to the list. I've added 1920x1080 myself :o
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Ridley Tree
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2008.02.22 11:10:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ridley Tree on 22/02/2008 11:11:45
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Well, it's more as I mentioned but far less then 100 or even 200 wich would be close to the insect eye of a Fly.
Are you a fly? *bz bz*
Wikipedia = Fail.
The Human eye does not operate in frames per second and to think, or relate, that it does is simply no even close to accurate. The question is 'how many frames per second do I need to trick the eye?', not 'how many frames per second does the eye see?'
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Black Rabbits Recruitment |
Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.22 11:15:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 22/02/2008 11:15:16
@Akita T, you are right, there are some very very view high sensitiv people on earth who feel/see far better then other people (not me as I'm half blind on one eye anyway).
But espezialy (hardcore-)gamers tend to belive they need abnormal FPS wich isn't true. But that's mostly that one, who cry "LAG!!" or "CHEATER!!" everytime they die too ;).
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Joshua Deakin
Gallente
The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.02.22 12:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/02/2008 08:15:48
erm sorry but ..
800*600 (SVGA)
1024*768 (XGA)
1280*1024 (SXGA)
are the normal non-TFT resulutions.
Ahem:
800x600 SVGA (4:3)
1024:768 XGA (4:3)
1280x1024 SXGA (5:4!), this is not a typical CRT resolution, but instead a typical resolution for 17"/19" TFT displays.
To keep the correct aspect ratio for a normal CRT tube you need to set the resolution to 1280x960 (4:3)
Take a look at this handy picture from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.02.22 13:48:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/02/2008 13:48:24
ôPlease prove this with a propper link and don't just tell people "it is proven".
taken from: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auge
EDIT: wikipedia -> eye for english versionö
Wikipedia says nothing about being limited to under 50fps.
This proves the eye sees over 200fps per second.
http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html
http://amo.net/nt/05-24-01FPS.html
"The USAF, in testing their pilots for visual response time, used a simple test to see if the pilots could distinguish small changes in light. In their experiment a picture of an aircraft was flashed on a screen in a dark room at 1/220th of a second. Pilots were consistently able to "see" the afterimage as well as identify the aircraft. This simple and specific situation not only proves the ability to percieve 1 image within 1/220 of a second, but the ability to interpret higher FPS."
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Miner Nicko
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Posted - 2008.02.22 13:49:00 -
[38]
A movie, DVD or TV Signal (cable or whatever) will NEVER EVER be above 30 FPS because a TV refreshes instantly, while a Monitor refreshes pixel-row by pixel-row... Say you have a 12ms response monitor (slow but common), it'll do the whole screen in roughly 12ms... So that's 1000/12 = 83.33 FPS, but say it's 120Hz so it can normally hit 120... What happens between 83.33-120? You don't see it, your comp will send it, and an FPS Monitor will show that (Fraps is a good one), but it'll only show the max.
Now a TV/Movie (Cinemas)/DVD-player will refresh the screen at once, every 20ms. Since it is done frame by frame you won't see the lines going down the screen like you can in a monitor and it'll look much smoother. Anyway, You're brain will not actually be able to notice the diff between 100FPS and 200FPS IF it's good quality. It'll be like watching a ball get thrown as fast as possible, you'll see it very blurred as a continous streak, but not a ball. So the more frame, the more distinct it is and looks different. But it won't really be much different to the 100FPS.
Ok, Why remove Resolution? I believe in prefs.ini you can custom set the resolution to whatever you want. Although trying something like windows 1*1 would be stupid, it would work. But it is probably because the most common used Resolutions would be:
Normal Screen - 1280*1024 - 1600*1200 - 800*600 - 1024*768
Wide Screen - 1440*900 - 1280*720-800 (depends on screen) - 1360-66*768
And of course theres more for 25"+ screens but they're not all that common and usually a waste of money as you could get a 19" with much better stats for less.
Nicko
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Kilal Destantia
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Posted - 2008.02.22 14:02:00 -
[39]
I noticed the resolutions disappearing as well. I used to use 1680x960 i believe it was in windowed mode as it would fill up almost my entire screen and let me easily use msn still. It disappeared probably a couple weeks ago and now i'm stuck using 1280x960 which is ok but too small for my liking. Used to be much better with the bigger resolution.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.02.22 15:02:00 -
[40]
I've been using 1152x864 for ages as well as it's the perfect resolution for running Eve in windows mode for me with my PC. I can't even see what reason there is to simply remove it in the first place.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:43:00 -
[41]
They zapped the 1280x720 res too.  That was the perfect res for multiple windowed accounts on my 1080p lcd. 
Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review
"if you aren't my friend you are my income."
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:17:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 21/02/2008 11:35:02
ôLow maximum FPS of a TFT? 60 FPS is max, a humans eye can't see any differenc over 35 (or was it 25??).ö
Not unless you have extremely poor eyes. A normal person can see over 200fps. In fact you donÆt really see in FPS you stream data. There is a difference between 60 and 100fps or even 100 and 200fps its been proven time and time again.
I call BS. Show me this "proof". I say you're 100% full of you-know-what.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Pottsey
"The USAF, in testing their pilots for visual response time, used a simple test to see if the pilots could distinguish small changes in light. In their experiment a picture of an aircraft was flashed on a screen in a dark room at 1/220th of a second. Pilots were consistently able to "see" the afterimage as well as identify the aircraft. This simple and specific situation not only proves the ability to percieve 1 image within 1/220 of a second, but the ability to interpret higher FPS."
Flashing something for a brief moment is completely different from comparing a 3d game running at different resolutions. One is seeing how short of at time an image can be displayed and still be seen and the other is how many frames a second it takes before it looks completely fluid to the human eye/brain.
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AlleyKat
Gallente
White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:32:00 -
[44]
Your eyes can see every photon - what your brain decides to decode is another matter.
EVE-ONLINE VIDEO-MAKING TUTORIALS |
SirFett
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:59:00 -
[45]
Edited by: SirFett on 22/02/2008 22:59:53
Originally by: Miner Nicko
A movie, DVD or TV Signal (cable or whatever) will NEVER EVER be above 30 FPS because a TV refreshes instantly, while a Monitor refreshes pixel-row by pixel-row... Say you have a 12ms response monitor (slow but common), it'll do the whole screen in roughly 12ms... So that's 1000/12 = 83.33 FPS, but say it's 120Hz so it can normally hit 120... What happens between 83.33-120? You don't see it, your comp will send it, and an FPS Monitor will show that (Fraps is a good one), but it'll only show the max.
lmao
here is what it reads to somebody with at least some knowledge in that field :" blablabla Yoghurt because a cammel has 2 humps and therefore is good at collecting fishbones from a pizza box"
hint : crt / lcd
you might want to research
electron beam , signaling, processing , other stuff / lcd matrix , ccfl frequency
then go deeper into tv / monitor diffrences (your going to be suprised)
afterwards maby research how a graphics card works ?
then maby you would like to revaluate your post , perhaps also with more precise wording maybe ?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.02.23 07:28:00 -
[46]
ôOne is seeing how short of at time an image can be displayed and still be seen and the other is how many frames a second it takes before it looks completely fluid to the human eye/brain.ö
No it not. If the eye can see 1 out of 200fps then at 200fps your going see that enemy ship warping in before the person at 100fps. Or the guy run around the corner e.c.t if someone runs past a window in a FPS game at 200fps you have more chance to see them and you see them a split moment before the person at 100fps.
As for completely fluid well 120fps looks more fluid and smooth than 60fps. See below
ôI call BS. Show me this "proof". I say you're 100% full of you-know-what.ö
I linked to a 2 documents early on and others linked to more, all explain the eye see s over 100fps. There is a program called FPS Compare v0.2 copyright 2000 Andreas Gustafsson where you can set half the screen to 60fps or whatever and the other half to anything like 100fps. Then you can look at both sides. Cover up the fps numbers and ask anyone else to come in rhe room and say which if any is diffrent. 99% of people say the 100fps is much smoother.
I donÆt have time to search for a link. ItÆs about 340KB and if you havenÆt found it by the time I get home I will upload it to my webspapce.
Just remember if you screen refresh is 60hz youÆre not going see a difference between 60fps and 100. But at 60hz you can do 60 v 30 and proof the silly myth away that 30 is the max the eye can see.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Vested Interest
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Posted - 2008.02.23 10:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kilal Destantia
I noticed the resolutions disappearing as well. I used to use 1680x960 i believe it was in windowed mode as it would fill up almost my entire screen and let me easily use msn still. It disappeared probably a couple weeks ago and now i'm stuck using 1280x960 which is ok but too small for my liking. Used to be much better with the bigger resolution.
Yes! I thought I was going nuts when some of my windowed resolutions disappeared about a month back.
WTF CCP put them back. There is simply not a good available windowed resolution to use on a 1680x1050 LCD now. 1280x1024 overlaps the task bar.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.02.23 11:47:00 -
[48]
/sign for not arbitrarily removing resolutions
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.23 11:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zeba
They zapped the 1280x720 res too. That was the perfect res for multiple windowed accounts on my 1080p lcd.
That is the one and only resolution I like on my laptop.
And 1152*864 used to be my resolution of choice for ages to until I got some better hardware.
Removing these would definitely a bad idea.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.02.23 12:01:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Pottsey on 23/02/2008 12:01:04
http://www.dissonance-corp.com/files/fpscmp02.zip is the program that proves the eye can see more then 100fps let alone 30 or 60.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Dr Shameless
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.02.23 14:30:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Dr Shameless on 23/02/2008 14:33:37
i want a windowed mode where i can drag the window edges to make it as big as i need it or be able to maximize it like a browser window while the program bar is still visible
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swoj
The New Order.
United Connection's
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Posted - 2008.02.23 14:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: Pottsey
Not taken a close look at all the resolutions. The one I noticed was 1151x864.
Now what resolution is that and who uses it? With LCD, never!
I use this resolution for playing Eve.
Reasons for this are:
1. I play in Windowed mode, it's easier to manage 2 accounts at once and I can easily move between Eve and my various spread sheets and other applications.
2. 1024x768 is just a bit too small to play
3. 1280x1024 is too big to be able to position my two Eve windows so I can see my overview on one account while I am active on the other.
4. It lands on the performance sweet spot for my PC
Would be really annoying if this resolution got removed. GRanted, one day when I can upgrade my PC (and screen resolution) I might change my res, but right now it's perfect.
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voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.23 16:34:00 -
[53]
/signed
Salvaging guide:moon materials guide |
Dimitry Kalashnikov
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2008.02.23 17:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôYes, and yet you still pay each month. Who is silly now?ö
The change hasnÆt gone live yet so itÆs not silly to keep paying.
Not taken a close look at all the resolutions. The one I noticed was 1151x864.
What the hell is that? I've never even seen that resolution before. Removing it I think will upset only one person.
I mean wow, are you just dumb or something? |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.02.23 18:11:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Pottsey on 23/02/2008 18:11:26
ôWhat the hell is that? I've never even seen that resolution before. Removing it I think will upset only one person. I mean wow, are you just dumb or something?ö
Perhaps before calling someone dumb you should read the thread and notice all the others who use the same resolution. Just because you donÆt use something or are not aware of something does not mean no one else has a use for it.
It wouldnt be as bad if CCP had a decent reason to remove it and told us why.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Khorin D'tael
Caldari
D'tael Contracts
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Posted - 2008.02.23 18:15:00 -
[56]
LMAO at all the nubcakes getting wound up at Pottsey because he likes a certain resolution.
Get a life ppl FFS if he likes 200 FPS or a resolution you don't so what?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:25:00 -
[57]
Great the change's are no on the live server.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Elridia
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:56:00 -
[58]
Since when do TFT/LCD screens have FPS. These types of screens have a refresh rate. The FPS is how fast your video card is able to send new frames to the monitor.
FPS, refresh rates, Hz..... I'm getting a headache now
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:01:00 -
[59]
öSince when do TFT/LCD screens have FPS. These types of screens have a refresh rate. The FPS is how fast your video card is able to send new frames to the monitor.ö
The refresh rate is how many FPS the screen can display. 60hz means the TFT/LCD/CRT updates the screen 60times per second. That in turn means your limited to 60fps.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Cypherous
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:10:00 -
[60]
All still present and correct here ^^
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Liberty Rogues Website
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