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Revolution Rising
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
52
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 14:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I can understand CCP wanting to allow meta-gaming in eve to keep things "real" and interesting for adults playing the game.
Honestly though, after joining the amarrian militia you have to wonder if it's not just a game breaker.
You cannot get info because most of them dont even read the militia window anymore. Many of them are in corps - this is true and they have their own chat channels. However, looking at the militia window currently just after DT, there are plenty of people there.
I and a couple of other new people to FW couldn't get any information on antyhing.
Spies have run rampant to such an extent that the entire process of gainging new players to play FW seems to have completely broken down.
Intel doesn't really happen in the channel, no intel for some means we can't really fly the ships we'd like to. No fleets because spies could too easily get into them means we can't even orchestrate a decent gank.
I can understand the many people who are happy to play FW right now and have already got into these closed groups, however for many of us who are high SP and just want to pewpew something without the hassle or needing a break from joining corps/alliances - it's a time waster to try and PVP without intel or collaboration.
CCP - this needs fixing desperately or just remove it. The necessary collaboration in low-sec as opposed to incursions in high-sec is completely different, and requires trust which cannot occur in your game - by your own design.
Have you considered any tools or ideas to help this along? Or is it just going to continue to be another one of your half-baked ideas?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
288
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 14:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
The intel exists, but you have to ask for it. The time when the militia channel was actively used for running intel has long past .. just do not ever ask for intel about some random mission system in high-sec, we are here to kill insurgent slaves, not rats
Believe it or not, it was worse last year when paranoia was truly rampant ... everything is relative.
PS: If militia channel says that 100 are "online", you probably have half active and only half of those in the warzone .. so "plenty" may be overstatement. |
Dark Pangolin
The Clean Up Crew S E D I T I O N
54
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:It is just going to continue to be another one of [CCP's] half-baked ideas
It can still be fun though. I know you said you don't want to join corps but it really is the best way to get into fleets etc...find an active one and go pew pew your heart out.
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Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
37
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Why not form your own fleet with other new guys and go pew pew?
Or are you just another person who joins FW thinking they have a divine right to immediate access to everything a lot of corps have spent a lot I time, effort and isk creating?
No offense intended. |
Revolution Rising
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
52
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gallactica wrote:Why not form your own fleet with other new guys and go pew pew?
Or are you just another person who joins FW thinking they have a divine right to immediate access to everything a lot of corps have spent a lot I time, effort and isk creating?
No offense intended.
What a stupid answer, no offense.
Which is it the intel channel or the fleet these corps spend heaps of isk on ?
Really
I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw in the master plan.
I have already said it is a given that my perspective is going to be different from the melodrama queens who will obviously troll this thread because they have been doing FW for a longass time.
However, your opinion is about as valid as a 6 year old player commenting on the new player experience - I wouldn't know.
Same, your opinion isn't valid as a new player trying to get into FW and coming up against the harsh wall of silence when it comes to intel/fleets/TS.
If you can't understand what I'm saying, go to the next thread in the forum. It's not some personal attack on corps doing what corps must do to survive.
It's an obvious flaw in the system that I'm pointing out and wondering if CCP in their rewrite/revisit of FW in the near future might do something about. If no inconsistencies are ever brought to light, then nothing will ever get fixed. |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
108
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:I:words:
You either sack up deal with the abuse for a little while until the old-hats get comfortable having you around and come to trust you a bit, or you join a FW player corporation.
I went the former route and it took a solid few months of nagging veteran FW guys to get into fleets and intel channels, following them around, putting up solid numbers on the killboard, and reporting accurate intel in whatever channels I had before I became "accepted" in the Minmatar FW crowd. However, those experiences made me a better pilot, more self-reliant, willing to go the extra mile and put in the 110% for the team and generally be a nice guy since I know how hard it is to get accepted to the "in-groups" of the militias. Honestly, FW is kind of like a Frat. You can pledge to it, but if you don't go through the hazing you aren't going to become a brother.
There ARE player corporations who take relatively new players and this is another great way to get involved in the militia since your corpmates will have gone through all that **** already and can help get you into fleets, show you what to do, etc. Different corps have different recruiting policies, but generally it is easier to join a Player corp than work your way up through the NPC militia corp.
If you're in the Amarr militia, you could try groups like The Peerage, Imperial Outlaws, Amarrian Retribution (they take anyone: exhibit a) Flyinghotpocket) and I'm sure there are others that would love to have a high SP pilot ready for pew. Or you can try a different militia, or you can go back to wherever you came from and cry about how ****** FW is, in which case, we didn't want you anyway.
EDIT- If your point is to prove that FW is not "newb-friendly", then yes. You are correct. I don't know why people tote is as being a great environment for learning PVP. It's not. It is hard to get into fleets, into intel channels, etc. The pilots in FW have years of small-gang experience. It's not a place for a person to come to learn PvP and expect to be instantly great. Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
126
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
so you are basically saying that it is CCPs fault that players: 1. make corporations 2. don't like strangers from NPC corps 3. don't like spies 4. don't use intel channel 5. .... ?
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Cromwell Savage
The Rock Hard Roosters Villore Accords
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 16:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Been in FW for almost 3 years now....
Have to say....it is far from a waste of time.
It's what you make of it. Me? I'm in it for the 24/7 Eve-wide wardec. RP,drama, and missions are just for lolz on the side
Started out as an unkown....joined a corp with a few friends.....made a name for oursleves....the rest is lots of dead squids in the process (with plenty of my own as well....).
Joining FW and looking for the "easy" button is not going to happen. |
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
38
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 16:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
I understand exactly what your saying mate, and my previous post genuinly wasnt meant to offend.
But, you've made a wide sweeping statement that FW is a waste of time, you are wrong.
Ive lost count of the amount of times ive seen people instantly new to FW pretty much demanding that they be let into either a) a fleet theyve seen around or b) why their x isnt being picked up.
When i say time, effort and isk etc i mean exactly that - When we run T3 gangs example with corpies etc, how much isk do you think is on the line here? Most FW corps that i know of have been created from scratch from the ground upwards from a couple of members, recruited, trained FC's within there own ranks, learned tactics from mistakes / victories, improved pvp skill and put an awful lot on the line on a daily basis to get to the standard and expectations where they are today (some good and some not so good) and as i said, new people seem to have this expectation that FW is a tool for them to instantly be in the middle of this and cry if they dont get immediatly involved on how things are unfair.
You seriously expect someone that no-one has had any previous experience with should automatically be invited to fleet - Spying is one problem yes but thats not the only issue, who says your ship is fitted right for the fleet, who says you know what your doing just cos your "high sp", do you have the right comms installed, are you an arse on comms, are you a know-it-all, do you have your ships / fittings in the system we are forming or do we have to wait 20 mins for you to get there etc etc etc - So we should hold the fleet up until weve put you in the right ship for the fleet, right fittings for the fleet, sussed out if your an arse or not etc etc, i'm sorry but no. I hope you see my point.
I'm sorry to say that FW (in the main) isnt just a noobs playground for right or for wrong.
How long have you been in FW, a day, a week, a month, a year? have you just given up at the first hurdle? i dont know you so i really have no idea.
If you are pretty new, then do what others have done, go out, get some kills / losses, have some fun, get noticed and you will get into fleets / comms - if you cant be arsed and just want it all on a plate, then it just wont happen mate.
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Princess Nexxala
The Rock Hard Roosters Villore Accords
23
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 17:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's a sandbox...why would you expect CCP to deliver you action? That's what makes this game great. Go out and get your own fights...don't expect them to be delivered to you with no work on your part. If you have that attitude you are playing the wrong game.
Good Luck
Is sexy time? |
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Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
135
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 17:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
I realize you say you are not interested in joining a corp. That's fine. But I do believe you can still run pickup gangs on your own by just learning to be social, helpful, and network!. One of my guys whose KB is lesser than mine was actually made an FC for a small pickup gang a week ago. Did those guys know he wasn't that great? No. But he was simply a social guy who could fake it till he make it.
I've seen your KB and you obviously know what you're doing. Or at the least, you don't seem to be a liability. I would just suggest that you
a) develop more patience and accept the environment for what it is b) socialize and network with those who you want to be your wingman.
Get your own comms, add each other to the contact list, and do your own thing.
Now, if however, what I just suggested sounds like too much work for you and you don't want to be the guy herding others out of the station, then join a corp who have established infrastructure. And if that isn't for you either, then FW is not for you.
CCP can make certain fixes to the game design. But they cannot compensate for many players who lack or don't wish to tap into the social skills that this game is also designed for. EVE is social darwinism. Meaning you have to rely on your own social skills as much as your technical skills to survive. I can point out several examples where I've applied my social skills to get what is needed to compensate for other elements that I lack that the general public thinks you need in order to survive. Namely high SP or l337 KB.
PS. Making general wide-sweeping statements will always get you trolled regardless of what the topic is.
Apparently, once you create a sig. You can't completely delete it. So this is my sig...for now. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 17:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
You just have to get your name know, x up in Militia if you see a lot of friendlies in local, hell, even convo one of em and ask to get in the fleet and ask for what comms they are in.
Also, don't be a male appendage that swings between the legs.
FW is not a waste of time. Fights happen regularly in the FW zones of low sec.
1019 kills for Villore Accords Alliance 607 kills for Drunk 'n' Disorderly Alliance 56 (+231)for the newly formed Percussive Pizza Time Diplomacy (+231 is for the month before the alliance was formed)
These are just their kills after Alliances were allowed into FW.
Then there's the rest of the Militia as well that's killin.
Then there's FW missioning also. That doesn't require any corporations, and it makes good ISKies.
Where's the waste of time again? -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Uppsy Daisy
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 18:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Google the amarr militia killboard, find out who is active in your time zone, then either join those corps or Convo some of them.
You are right, the militia channel is not used much but there invite only alternatives. |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
58
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 19:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:I can understand CCP wanting to allow meta-gaming in eve to keep things "real" and interesting for adults playing the game.
Honestly though, after joining the amarrian militia you have to wonder if it's not just a game breaker.
You cannot get info because most of them dont even read the militia window anymore. Many of them are in corps - this is true and they have their own chat channels. However, looking at the militia window currently just after DT, there are plenty of people there.
I and a couple of other new people to FW couldn't get any information on antyhing.
Spies have run rampant to such an extent that the entire process of gainging new players to play FW seems to have completely broken down.
Intel doesn't really happen in the channel, no intel for some means we can't really fly the ships we'd like to. No fleets because spies could too easily get into them means we can't even orchestrate a decent gank.
I can understand the many people who are happy to play FW right now and have already got into these closed groups, however for many of us who are high SP and just want to pewpew something without the hassle or needing a break from joining corps/alliances - it's a time waster to try and PVP without intel or collaboration.
CCP - this needs fixing desperately or just remove it. The necessary collaboration in low-sec as opposed to incursions in high-sec is completely different, and requires trust which cannot occur in your game - by your own design.
Have you considered any tools or ideas to help this along? Or is it just going to continue to be another one of your half-baked ideas?
In summary..... I can't believe CCP is asking me exert effort so that I can carve out a niche for me to play in their sandbox game.
ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Electra Gaterau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 19:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Uppsy Daisy wrote:Google the amarr militia killboard, find out who is active in your time zone, then either join those corps or Convo some of them.
You are right, the militia channel is not used much but there invite only alternatives.
This.
As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me. Theres nothing wrong with growing a pair and venturing out on your own to begin with.
(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?) |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
403
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 20:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Electra Gaterau wrote:As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me.
Don't even wait that long. Explain in your application that you are a nubbin, you want to learn, and thrown in some wiseass crack that will put a smile on their face for good measure.
Electra Gaterau wrote:(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?)
As long as you don't do it "stupidly," yes. "Suicide tackle" is a noble job in militia and many nubbins start out their careers this way. I did. After I got sick of doing this, I upgraded to cruisers... then to battlecruisers... then back to cruisers... then battleships... then specialty T2 ships (gawd I loved that Nemesis, no matter how much it sucked). "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Jamradar
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 21:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't get how this game works, it's not working like how I want it to work. These other people who was once new to FW themselves obviously don't know what they're talking about!! CCP PLZ CHANGE GAME PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
there ya go, I shortened your whole argument into a quick time-sensitive small group of words. you're welcome. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
21
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 21:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
im pretty sure i read somewhere that the current lead game designer was opposed to FW when it was implemented, and that is one reason it hasn't been iterated on and basically ignored (excepting for recently allowing alliances in FW)
that true?
also what do you expect ccp to do to fix other FW players not liking/caring about you? |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1105
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 22:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Honestly though, after joining the amarrian militia....Spies have run rampant to such an extent
Revolution Rising Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
I'm sorry you failed in your spy attempts, m8m8. Lrn2playbetter |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
303
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 22:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
metagaming?! in MY eve?! I'll not have any of it! |
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Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
41
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 22:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Oh and one other thing.......
Hans for csm!!!!!!!!!!! |
Electra Gaterau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 23:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Electra Gaterau wrote:As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me. Don't even wait that long. Explain in your application that you are a nubbin, you want to learn, and thrown in some wiseass crack that will put a smile on their face for good measure. Electra Gaterau wrote:(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?) As long as you don't do it "stupidly," yes. "Suicide tackle" is a noble job in militia and many nubbins start out their careers this way. I did. After I got sick of doing this, I upgraded to cruisers... then to battlecruisers... then back to cruisers... then battleships... then specialty T2 ships (gawd I loved that Nemesis, no matter how much it sucked).
Ty for the advice.
Just to confirm to the original poster I acted on what I said earlier and sure I got blown up first attempt but I got straight back out there, scored my first kill and made a new friend. Not bad for my first night! If a 2 month old character can do it you shouldn't have a problem |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 23:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Electra Gaterau wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Electra Gaterau wrote:As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me. Don't even wait that long. Explain in your application that you are a nubbin, you want to learn, and thrown in some wiseass crack that will put a smile on their face for good measure. Electra Gaterau wrote:(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?) As long as you don't do it "stupidly," yes. "Suicide tackle" is a noble job in militia and many nubbins start out their careers this way. I did. After I got sick of doing this, I upgraded to cruisers... then to battlecruisers... then back to cruisers... then battleships... then specialty T2 ships (gawd I loved that Nemesis, no matter how much it sucked). Ty for the advice. Just to confirm to the original poster I acted on what I said earlier and sure I got blown up first attempt but I got straight back out there, scored my first kill and made a new friend. Not bad for my first night! If a 2 month old character can do it you shouldn't have a problem
I hope you survive the "6month learning curve", because attitudes like this are wonderful to have whether as an enemy or ally. If Gallente doesn't work out, check out Minmatar. And I'd be happy to help you with any questions or anything, just mail me in-game. Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Electra Gaterau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 23:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well i'm not the fastest learner but I certainly am a glutton for punishment, expect lots of fail fits and comical kill mails from me |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
135
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 23:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:Electra Gaterau wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Electra Gaterau wrote:As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me. Don't even wait that long. Explain in your application that you are a nubbin, you want to learn, and thrown in some wiseass crack that will put a smile on their face for good measure. Electra Gaterau wrote:(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?) As long as you don't do it "stupidly," yes. "Suicide tackle" is a noble job in militia and many nubbins start out their careers this way. I did. After I got sick of doing this, I upgraded to cruisers... then to battlecruisers... then back to cruisers... then battleships... then specialty T2 ships (gawd I loved that Nemesis, no matter how much it sucked). Ty for the advice. Just to confirm to the original poster I acted on what I said earlier and sure I got blown up first attempt but I got straight back out there, scored my first kill and made a new friend. Not bad for my first night! If a 2 month old character can do it you shouldn't have a problem I hope you survive the "6month learning curve", because attitudes like this are wonderful to have whether as an enemy or ally. If Gallente doesn't work out, check out Minmatar. And I'd be happy to help you with any questions or anything, just mail me in-game.
Hey c'mon now Vordak. Don't go poaching our militia grunts already. Gallente needs all the help it can get to fight off those squid bears!
I'll take a pilot with a good attitude like Electra rather than a complaining high SP player any day of the week.
If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Gabriel Darkefyre
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 00:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Electra Gaterau wrote:As a relatively new player I joined the Gall militia yesterday and the channel is also dead. So I checked kill boards to see active corps in EU and already have one I plan to apply to once I have a little xp behind me. Don't even wait that long. Explain in your application that you are a nubbin, you want to learn, and thrown in some wiseass crack that will put a smile on their face for good measure.
Pretty Much This, TBH. Sometimes, just having the right attitude is worth far more to a corp than having Millions of SP available.
Take my Corp, given the Choice between a New Player who's a willing to put their ships on the line even when the odds are stacked against them (usually while drunk), and a 7 Year Veteran who's approach to EVE is more geared towards keeping his Killboard Stats Pretty, we're most likely to choose the Drunken Lunatic every time as they'd be a better fit for the corp. We can develop Talent and Skill, however changing someone's attitude is much tougher.
ShahFluffers wrote:Electra Gaterau wrote:(Will getting my ass handed to me count as experience?) As long as you don't do it "stupidly," yes. "Suicide tackle" is a noble job in militia and many nubbins start out their careers this way. I did. After I got sick of doing this, I upgraded to cruisers... then to battlecruisers... then back to cruisers... then battleships... then specialty T2 ships (gawd I loved that Nemesis, no matter how much it sucked).
To clarify, even a "stupid" loss is experience. It's when you continually repeat whatever led to the "stupid" loss that it's a bad thing.
|
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
155
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 01:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Like to point out that as a nice person im always will to help....okay can't be arsed trolling anymore.
New players dont convo me, i don't like you at all. Then again the only person I do like is acutally a Minnie, but then I don't have a minnie alt in ...some corp.
Was laughing my ass off when he/she got in.
In regards to new people in FW.
FW is not noob, or NEWB, friendly never has been. I spent a month x'ing up in Caldari Militia before I just joined IBS. Moving and living in Low Sec helped as well. Once your in the systems people see ya around, they see you plex and before long boom your in. Soon enough for be in the intelchannel with the spy that everyone knows about. On comms that up to now, confirmed four minnies have access too, awesome sauce.
FW is fun, you just wont get into any old fleet on day one. Might seem unfair to you being new, but to me who the minnies will tell ya is cyno bait for Faction Bs and T3 fleets, it feels just right.
Places at the table are earned, not given out like candy. |
Mekhana
Black Knight Legion
417
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 02:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Electra Gaterau wrote:Well i'm not the fastest learner but I certainly am a glutton for punishment, expect lots of fail fits and comical kill mails from me
Don't worry the day I joined FW I had never pvped before and I turned out ok. The time I was in SP-DR and Gal Mil were my best days in EVE but I don't have the time to play anymore. Word of advice: When playing games online with other people get a thick skin.
Also, check my guide in my bio. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 02:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gallactica wrote:Oh and one other thing.......
Hans for csm!!!!!!!!!!!
QFT -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 02:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cromwell Savage wrote: It's what you make of it. Me? I'm in it for ....drama
YEAH BABY YOU KNOW IT! Gallente FW sure can cook up some juicy drama llama.
On a serious note, in real life you have to talk to people to make friends, and you have to talk to people to get any kind of position (whether it be a job, volunteer work, a member of a sports team) - why would it be any different in an MMORPG?
Don't be a faction warfare wall-flower, get out there and pew pew and meet people. SLAPD - CEO |
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1802
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 08:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
To the OP - there's all kinds of **** that is ******** about Faction Warfare. That's why I've spent more time recently trying to get it patched up than I have actually participating in the fighting myself.
As to the spai paranoia - that unfortunately is NOT something CCP can do anything about besides leaving out any plans to inject unnecessary drama into FW by implementing aliance-style leadership or shared resources.
The only solution to the spai paranoid is for militia corps to not use spais.
Spais cause recruting blocks that keep folks like yourself from having fun, and spais cause fleets to dock up for safety reasons when they know they'll lose.
Spais ruin FW. The responsibility to clean that **** up so that we can get back to fun fights with more pilots lies with those of us that are veterans of the scene.
If you know someone personally who's using spais in the opposing militia, let them know that it hurts the community, and leads to less fighting.
Peer pressure it out of FW, leave that stuff to the 0.0 alliances. We can only police ourselves if we want to get more pilots involved and have more battles all around. There's good drama that surrounds the battles and the smack tak, and there's bad drama that causes unnecessary trust issues that lead to corporations doing their own thing instead of reaching out to each other.
Spai issue aside, there's a whole lot of work CCP can do in terms of reward / consequence, please stop by my campaign thread if you'd like to read more about what I've been up to. I've already been working closely with the existing CSM on Faction Warfare issues, and they are also a huge part of my platform for my CSM7. |
Andrea Griffin
117
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 14:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
I do find the metagaming / rampant spying in the FW militias to be exceptionally obnoxious, but this isn't something that CCP can fix. It's only something the players can fix - but they never, ever will. It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
Ninlarra
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 15:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:I:words: More Words.
This douchebag is right. You have to sack up as he puts it. I am a terrible pilot. The only asset I bring to FW is cap ships I'm too ***** to use and my occasional trolling skills. But before my long list of accomplishment in FW I spent many many MANY (like 18 or so) in the NPC FW corp, I lost many ships, jumped into many possible fights and died horribly, and more perhaps most importantly DONT LEAVE FE AND COME BACK 15 TIMES. I would go so far to say if I didnt jump into 5 or 6 fights on a gate while I in the NPC corps without being asked and the right people were there I still might be in the NPC corps.
TL;DR
Fight and die as often as you can, then you will get into the intel channels and have the info you want. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
137
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 16:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
FW is a glorifed noob corp constantly at war wiht other newb corps. NO player wanted to do ANYTHING but solo should ever remain in the original npc fw corp.
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 00:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:I can understand CCP wanting to allow meta-gaming in eve to keep things "real" and interesting for adults playing the game.
Honestly though, after joining the amarrian militia you have to wonder if it's not just a game breaker.
You cannot get info because most of them dont even read the militia window anymore. Many of them are in corps - this is true and they have their own chat channels. However, looking at the militia window currently just after DT, there are plenty of people there.
I and a couple of other new people to FW couldn't get any information on antyhing.
Spies have run rampant to such an extent that the entire process of gainging new players to play FW seems to have completely broken down.
Intel doesn't really happen in the channel, no intel for some means we can't really fly the ships we'd like to. No fleets because spies could too easily get into them means we can't even orchestrate a decent gank.
I can understand the many people who are happy to play FW right now and have already got into these closed groups, however for many of us who are high SP and just want to pewpew something without the hassle or needing a break from joining corps/alliances - it's a time waster to try and PVP without intel or collaboration.
CCP - this needs fixing desperately or just remove it. The necessary collaboration in low-sec as opposed to incursions in high-sec is completely different, and requires trust which cannot occur in your game - by your own design.
Have you considered any tools or ideas to help this along? Or is it just going to continue to be another one of your half-baked ideas?
You need to get out and try some pvp against the enemy - you will lose a few ships and hopefully kill a few along the way. Once the rest of militia see you are willing to get out and try - you will get into the bigger fleets and better channels.
Do some active plexing in the same systems as other members of your militia. Once they see you a few times they and know you are not going to scram them, you will start getting fleet invites. Militia is a mean place when you first join - it gets better.
As for spy's - they are nothing to be afraid of. Learn who they are have fun with em - they are quite entertaining sometimes. There is no way to remove them from militia without breaking eve so just accept they are there and give em the odd bit of false info and watch their movements/chat etc. With practice (and a few screw ups), spy's become easier to pick - to the point of almost being worthless.
So Militia chat does have its uses - use it for information or misinformation that you want spread around. wtf - why won't signatures delete? |
Silence iKillYouu
The Innocent Criminals Late Night Alliance
138
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 01:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Gallactica wrote:Why not form your own fleet with other new guys and go pew pew?
Or are you just another person who joins FW thinking they have a divine right to immediate access to everything a lot of corps have spent a lot I time, effort and isk creating?
No offense intended. What a stupid answer, no offense. Which is it the intel channel or the fleet these corps spend heaps of isk on ? Really I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw in the master plan. I have already said it is a given that my perspective is going to be different from the melodrama queens who will obviously troll this thread because they have been doing FW for a longass time. However, your opinion is about as valid as a 6 year old player commenting on the new player experience - I wouldn't know. Same, your opinion isn't valid as a new player trying to get into FW and coming up against the harsh wall of silence when it comes to intel/fleets/TS. If you can't understand what I'm saying, go to the next thread in the forum. It's not some personal attack on corps doing what corps must do to survive. It's an obvious flaw in the system that I'm pointing out and wondering if CCP in their rewrite/revisit of FW in the near future might do something about. If no inconsistencies are ever brought to light, then nothing will ever get fixed. I personally have spent multiple billions on corps and groups. Amarr are really uptight u would fit in better with the minnies. send me a mail if u want to get in with the fun group
Revolution Rising wrote: harsh wall of silence http://fw-frontline.blogspot.com/ |
SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries Late Night Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 02:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Does this look like a recruitment thread, Silence? Get lost! =P |
Mechael
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 02:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:To the OP - there's all kinds of **** that is ******** about Faction Warfare. That's why I've spent more time recently trying to get it patched up than I have actually participating in the fighting myself. As to the spai paranoia - that unfortunately is NOT something CCP can do anything about besides leaving out any plans to inject unnecessary drama into FW by implementing aliance-style leadership or shared resources. The only solution to the spai paranoid is for militia corps to not use spais. Spais cause recruting blocks that keep folks like yourself from having fun, and spais cause fleets to dock up for safety reasons when they know they'll lose. Spais ruin FW. The responsibility to clean that **** up so that we can get back to fun fights with more pilots lies with those of us that are veterans of the scene. If you know someone personally who's using spais in the opposing militia, let them know that it hurts the community, and leads to less fighting. Peer pressure it out of FW, leave that stuff to the 0.0 alliances. We can only police ourselves if we want to get more pilots involved and have more battles all around. There's good drama that surrounds the battles and the smack tak, and there's bad drama that causes unnecessary trust issues that lead to corporations doing their own thing instead of reaching out to each other. Spai issue aside, there's a whole lot of work CCP can do in terms of reward / consequence, please stop by my campaign thread if you'd like to read more about what I've been up to. I've already been working closely with the existing CSM on Faction Warfare issues, and they are also a huge part of my platform for my CSM7.
Yikes. What is warfare without spying? Please don't push for that. Instead, please push for more inventive ways of sifting out spies. I'm sure it's possible. A rank system is a good start. I know there's one built in already, but having special comms for higher ranking FW pilots would at least be a start even if it isn't infallible. On that note, nothing should be infallible. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 03:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
My hair is infallible. -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Mekhana
Black Knight Legion
418
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 03:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Garr Earthbender wrote:My hair is infallible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXZftTgP0bk |
|
SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries Late Night Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 03:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mechael wrote: Yikes. What is warfare without spying? Please don't push for that. Instead, please push for more inventive ways of sifting out spies. I'm sure it's possible. A rank system is a good start. I know there's one built in already, but having special comms for higher ranking FW pilots would at least be a start even if it isn't infallible. On that note, nothing should be infallible.
What he is speaking of is a couple day old alts that take no effort at all getting into the warring millitias to gain as much information as possible. This is not really 'spying,' but is more asshattery than anything else. It has very little practical value other than irritating and disrupting the hostile militia. This level of "spying" takes absolutely no effort or actual ability to disguise motives. |
Daistruktor Morganus
Stormcrow Salvage and Logistics
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 06:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:[quote=Revolution Rising]I:words:
You either sack up deal with the abuse for a little while until the old-hats get comfortable having you around and come to trust you a bit, or you join a FW player corporation.
^That! I (after a vote) signed up my corp for FW against you slimy slavers. We've taken a few knocks, but soon we had a few contacts in the "real" FW. It really wasn't too bad, even though they were effectively trusting me with the job of filtering out spys. Get a few in-game friends and form your own FW corp if you want to, but show you are gonna be loyal, and it will happen. And then I'll make a point of targeting you, lol.
Or, like others have said, engage your irl social skillz and make a few friends in your FW. Doors will open, if you work on it for a few weeks/months.
(goes back to Ammar FW spai alt) |
Ash Stewart
The Tenori Tigers
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 01:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
Wonder if there's any money in being a double agent? :P
going solo and passing intel on both sides... could be fun XD
But seriously though... i've found the whole spy thing annoying and joined a null sec alliance.... there's that option for you too. .................It's the eye of the tiger, it's the thrill of the fight Risin' up to the challenge of our rival And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night And he's watchin' us all with the eye of the tiger............... |
Jones Bones
Brutor Bike Co. Heretic Nation
29
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 01:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
FWs "peak" was 2010. Since then there's been a slow degradation of participation and kills. While the core concept is a good idea the execution was terrible and continues to be flawed. I would love to see it improved, but until then it will continue it's slow slide. |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 01:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:FWs "peak" was 2010. Since then there's been a slow degradation of participation and kills. While the core concept is a good idea the execution was terrible and continues to be flawed. I would love to see it improved, but until then it will continue it's slow slide.
Yes, but hopefully CCP's iteration on FW this year (with our man Hans whispering in their ear) should help jolt some life back into it. Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Mekhana
Black Knight Legion
422
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 01:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
That's if he gets elected. He's already not popular with the 'big' candidates, they are trying to get more 'like minded' people elected to phase Hans out.
We need to all actually vote for the CSM (gasp!) so he has a chance of winning. |
SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries Late Night Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 02:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mekhana wrote:That's if he gets elected. He's already not popular with the 'big' candidates, they are trying to get more 'like minded' people elected to phase Hans out.
We need to all actually vote for the CSM (gasp!) so he has a chance of winning.
He's already been involved with the process from what I understand, but I completely agree - we have to so some solidarity behind Hans for his wonderful support of the core gameplay aspects we all enjoy. This is now a +1 for Hans thread |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
142
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 02:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ash Stewart wrote:
But seriously though... i've found the whole spy thing annoying and joined a null sec alliance.... there's that option for you too.
Right. Because nullsec doesn't have spies. Seriously though, people make a bigger deal out of the spies meme than it needs to be. FW doesn't allow for sov and there isn't alot to be gained from spying other than passing off intel about enemy movements. And that's already gained by seeding pilots at various choke points in lowsec and reporting back in exclusive channels .
I would suggest posting Han's thread in militia channels as a way to rally votes. As well as telling corp CEOs to promote him as well If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 17:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Personal memory from FW times has horrid pictures of "arranged" fights done by the militia FC guys running our lowtech t1 fleet into enemy fleets with +8 logis and t2+faction ships.
The excuse was "well we got a fight out of it" ... when everyone died obviously.
I have to agree that people playing both sides destroy the whole idea of the FW with the "lol just a game" attitude. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 23:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ash Stewart wrote:Wonder if there's any money in being a double agent? :P
going solo and passing intel on both sides... could be fun XD
But seriously though... i've found the whole spy thing annoying and joined a null sec alliance.... there's that option for you too.
Give it a go - You'll make tens of isks.
wtf - why won't signatures delete? |
|
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
146
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Here's a A Candid Look at Faction War and Small-Gang PVP from Susan Black;
Quote:If null-sec pvp is like fighting as a storm trooper, then small-gang pvp is like fighting like an Ewok. When I was in null-sec, a lot of my fleet 'thought' was about conformity. Did I have the proper fit the FC needed at that time? (Along with the 200 pilots in the same ship?) Was I in the right place? Was I near enough to the titan so I could bridge at the appropriate time? Am I doing my best to switch targets when the FC calls it? (Oh how I remember the lag!)
In small gang, low-sec pvp, and Faction War, there is the complete opposite mentality to this group-think. You need...and are expected to have a keen sense of personal creativity. With this creativity comes a lot of freedom to just play.
Consider the Amarrian FW corp, Imperial Outlaws, and their campaign on TEST. Ilaw is a small 30 man corp waging small gang warfare on a major nullsec alliance with thousands of members. Their campaign in Otosela has netted them 500+ kills and 40+ losses. Not bad for a bunch of supposed noob pilots. It just goes to show what creative and cohesive combat unit can accomplish unlike those who suffer the typical lemming and group think mindset. Damn those Amarrian Ewoks :)
You will always have naysayers in any part of space. FW, like many parts of New Eden, is simply social Darwinism. Skillpoints alone doesn't get you far. Your ability to socialize and learn to network with others will get you into the 'country club" mentality that some speak of.
And TBH, I think the people who complain about not being able to break into FW or any other part of the sandbox in New Eden are the same people who sit idly at a bar with a drink in hand waiting for the pretty girl to come talk to you. Loser mentality. You're supposed to go to the girl and talk to her. Win her over with your charm, wit, and personality. If she rejects you, say, "No big deal. I love rejection. Let me find another!"
People who complain about not being able to "get in" are the same ones who will find a reason to not being able to succeed elsewhere be that nullsec, WH, piracy, etc... Some just can't handle rejection and obstacles be that ingame or in life.
You can win. Or you can make excuses. But you can't do both at the same time. If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
24
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 19:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Well said, Deen. Faction Warefare is alife, but it is not a sitting duck like high-sec missioning. You have actively to search for a target and be creative in hunting it down. This can be frustrating from time to time but once you have learned the ropes and have some success you will feel the spice of FW. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
70
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 21:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
lol this thread is still going, I'd completely forgotten about it.
Started a low-sec corp with some friends instead.
Hope all the FW spying works itself out, GL with that.
edit: Really had to laugh at this post.
Ash Stewart wrote: But seriously though... i've found the whole spy thing annoying and joined a null sec alliance.... there's that option for you too.
Seriously? Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
|
Ash Stewart
The Tenori Tigers Un.Bound
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 13:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Ash Stewart wrote:
But seriously though... i've found the whole spy thing annoying and joined a null sec alliance.... there's that option for you too.
Right. Because nullsec doesn't have spies. Seriously though, people make a bigger deal out of the spies meme than it needs to be. FW doesn't allow for sov and there isn't alot to be gained from spying other than passing off intel about enemy movements. And that's already gained by seeding pilots at various choke points in lowsec and reporting back in exclusive channels . I would suggest posting Han's thread in militia channels as a way to rally votes. As well as telling corp CEOs to promote him as well
My point was .... the whole paranoia around spies in FW... not the spies themselves. If you got paranoia to the point that you won't trust your fellow militia-men, that basically limits the capacity of the militia in general.
Naturally.. Null sec has a lot of spies... .................It's the eye of the tiger, it's the thrill of the fight Risin' up to the challenge of our rival And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night And he's watchin' us all with the eye of the tiger............... |
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
115
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 00:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:[quote=Gallactica] If you can't understand what I'm saying, go to the next thread in the forum. It's not some personal attack on corps doing what corps must do to survive.
Are you sure yourself what you are saying?
|
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
151
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 08:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ash Stewart wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:Ash Stewart wrote:
But seriously though... i've found the whole spy thing annoying and joined a null sec alliance.... there's that option for you too.
Right. Because nullsec doesn't have spies. Seriously though, people make a bigger deal out of the spies meme than it needs to be. FW doesn't allow for sov and there isn't alot to be gained from spying other than passing off intel about enemy movements. And that's already gained by seeding pilots at various choke points in lowsec and reporting back in exclusive channels . I would suggest posting Han's thread in militia channels as a way to rally votes. As well as telling corp CEOs to promote him as well My point was .... the whole paranoia around spies in FW... not the spies themselves. If you got paranoia to the point that you won't trust your fellow militia-men, that basically limits the capacity of the militia in general. Naturally.. Null sec has a lot of spies...
You know who are the ones complaining about the so called spies? The people who want to provide an excuse for why they couldn't cut it and complain about it on forums.
If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Tali Naraya
Amarrian Retribution
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 09:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
Joined FW about a week ago, and it literally only took me ten minutes to figure out something that the OP couldn't figure out: You gotta be in a dedicated militia corp to access the TS and all the other goodies. Since then I've had nothing but small gang warfare and goodfites. If you want to stay in the 24th IC and then baaaw that you're in the 24th IC then you're doing it wrong.
CCP, I don't like the fact that the default corp you made for FW doesn't run on it's own like a well oiled machine. FW is broken. Delete it. Baaaw baaaw baaaw. |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
121
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 11:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tali Naraya wrote:Joined FW about a week ago, and it literally only took me ten minutes to figure out something that the OP couldn't figure out: You gotta be in a dedicated militia corp to access the TS and all the other goodies. Since then I've had nothing but small gang warfare and goodfites. If you want to stay in the 24th IC and then baaaw that you're in the 24th IC then you're doing it wrong.
CCP, I don't like the fact that the default corp you made for FW doesn't run on it's own like a well oiled machine. FW is broken. Delete it. Baaaw baaaw baaaw.
Thank god, a person with a brain. (Amarr needs more of those. Huehuehue.)
See you on the battlefield, mate. o7 Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1944
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 15:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Tali Naraya wrote:Joined FW about a week ago, and it literally only took me ten minutes to figure out something that the OP couldn't figure out: You gotta be in a dedicated militia corp to access the TS and all the other goodies. Since then I've had nothing but small gang warfare and goodfites. If you want to stay in the 24th IC and then baaaw that you're in the 24th IC then you're doing it wrong.
CCP, I don't like the fact that the default corp you made for FW doesn't run on it's own like a well oiled machine. FW is broken. Delete it. Baaaw baaaw baaaw.
I don't think Faction Warfare has to be all tough, closed doors fight club recruiting style though. There should be a place for folks in the general militia corp, in terms of meeting friends, hopping in thrashers, and seizing small plexes for occupancy.
I think the sooner we get a UI revamp with some actual intel involved that points players in the direction of the proper plexes to flip a system, spy paranoia will reduce as more battlefield info becomes open and public anyways.
I want to see as much info available as possible (within reason) so that players can find fights readily and easilly. This is the future. Each militia should know where it is being attacked, that intel would exist independent of player scouting due to automated transmissions and such. I think by opening up the militia UI and adding useful feedback we reduce the value of a planted spy, minimize the ability of a militia to "ninja-flip" a system without anyone knowing about it, and make fleeting with random militia corp members a much less scary affair than it is under current circumstances.
|
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Nulli Secunda
332
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 05:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Consider the Amarrian FW corp, Imperial Outlaws, and their campaign on TEST. Ilaw is a small 30 man corp waging small gang warfare on a major nullsec alliance with thousands of members. Their campaign in Otosela has netted them 500+ kills and 40+ losses. Not bad for a bunch of supposed noob pilots. It just goes to show what creative and cohesive combat unit can accomplish unlike those who suffer the typical lemming and group think mindset. Damn those Amarrian Ewoks :)
It's inconceivable how they even took those 44 losses, considering about 95% of their kills were on the station undock and they would simply store their ships when the tables turned.
Off the undock, they literally couldn't stop TEST from AFK sieging their pos(es) with a single dude triple-boxing dreads while playing League of Legends. That's how much of an actual threat ILAW was to TEST. |
|
Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
160
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 05:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
Hau i voet for CMS?!?! Er CSM? The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1949
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 05:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote: It's inconceivable how they even took those 44 losses, considering about 95% of their kills were on the station undock and they would simply store their ships when the tables turned.
Off the undock, they literally couldn't stop TEST from AFK sieging their pos(es) with a single dude triple-boxing dreads while playing League of Legends. That's how much of an actual threat ILAW was to TEST.
I think the most important point to remember here is that the Ewoks didn't have to blow up the death star to earn their place in history, in the end. They just did a damn good job of making the Empire fumble a bit and look inept. It was the shame of having the AT-ST trip over some logs that hurt them far more than the isk it took to replace the walker.
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1949
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 06:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Hau i voet for CMS?!?! Er CSM?
Thank you for your interest!
I'm building a mailing list for all my supporters to join, so i can forward voting instructions once they are released. So far, CCP hasn't opened the polls yet or given specifics. Voting will begin on March 7.
If any of you will be giving my the honor of your votes for CSM, and would like to stay in touch and help me forward voting instructions to your friends and corp mates, please contact me via Evemail. I'll add you to the "allowed list" so you can sign up!
Thanks again everyone for all the support.... |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Nulli Secunda
332
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 06:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I think the most important point to remember here is that the Ewoks didn't have to blow up the death star to earn their place in history, in the end. They just did a damn good job of making the Empire fumble a bit and look inept. It was the shame of having the AT-ST trip over some logs that hurt them far more than the isk it took to replace the walker.
I can't believe you seriously defended station games as showing prowess. Especially when TEST could and did afk dreads in the system and the only people who did anything about it were BL (missed our two chances) and Init. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Nulli Secunda
332
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 06:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
"guys, TEST are utterly terrible!" *3 afk dreads on pos* *does nothing* "seriously! look at us, sticking it to The Man!" |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1949
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 07:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I think the most important point to remember here is that the Ewoks didn't have to blow up the death star to earn their place in history, in the end. They just did a damn good job of making the Empire fumble a bit and look inept. It was the shame of having the AT-ST trip over some logs that hurt them far more than the isk it took to replace the walker. I can't believe you seriously defended station games as showing prowess. Especially when TEST could and did afk dreads in the system and the only people who did anything about it were BL (missed our two chances) and Init.
Wasn't seriously defending anything, really. I was just making a joke about Ewoks.
I should have made my silly tone more evident! It's getting late here in this TZ.
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
290
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 15:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:Consider the Amarrian FW corp, Imperial Outlaws, and their campaign on TEST. Ilaw is a small 30 man corp waging small gang warfare on a major nullsec alliance with thousands of members. Their campaign in Otosela has netted them 500+ kills and 40+ losses. Not bad for a bunch of supposed noob pilots. It just goes to show what creative and cohesive combat unit can accomplish unlike those who suffer the typical lemming and group think mindset. Damn those Amarrian Ewoks :) It's inconceivable how they even took those 44 losses, considering about 95% of their kills were on the station undock and they would simply store their ships when the tables turned. Off the undock, they literally couldn't stop TEST from AFK sieging their pos(es) with a single dude triple-boxing dreads while playing League of Legends. That's how much of an actual threat ILAW was to TEST.
Who was a threat to whom was shown on the killboard.
Having test decide to base out of our station was about as threatening as a free delivery of cream puffs.
We were all sad to see them go.
Yes it is pretty clear that many in test were so bad that they didn't know basic mechanics. But that is the point. You really don't have to know anything to be a part of the blob warfare that happens in sov null sec. In faction war/low sec when you are in small gang pvp having good pilots who know what they are doing, does matter.
I am not saying this is good or bad but it does show that these large null sec alliances are often better fits for noobs than faction war.
They just kept giving people in the corp so many kills right at the station it was hard to pass up. I generally don't like station games but I was even training large artillery 5 when I saw the kills they were handing out. I mean I might go roaming scrounging for a kill and all the while on vent I hear sabotage notching up kill after kill right at home. It was just too much. Sadly they moved before I could really harvest many of them.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Andrea Griffin
136
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 17:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
My experiences in FW have been pretty good so far; I joined two weeks ago or so, figuring it might be a good way to get some pew pew with my limited play time. FW has delivered for the most part. I fly frigate class ships in the minor complexes so I don't have to worry about BCs on the field, for example. I've also found it fairly easy to get some "street cred" with some of the guys in the militia. Here's how I did it; if anyone else is in the general militia and wants some Brownie Points with others, give this a try.
Find a system where your militia is plexing. Grab a frigate or whatever and, instead of shooting at the NPCs, sit near the warp-in. Point anything hostile that comes through and give the others time to shoot it down.
The cool thing is you don't need to be on comms with them to be useful to their fleet and you have the opportunity to serve up kills to the other guys. After you do this for a while they WILL remember you, and they will remember that you're serious about helping out.
I did this for about six hours over the weekend and had some interesting experiences, and was noticed by some well known people in the militia. I had another friendly FW corp asking me about my Super Secret Merlin Fit, since it performed really well in one of the fights.
If you put yourself out there, put in the effort, and show your face, you'll make friends.
Another few years of this and they might even realize that I'm not a spai (har har). It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
Ash Stewart
The Tenori Tigers Un.Bound
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Good points you've made there.....
Yea.. that is the fastest way to get noticed in the FW militia, that and reporting enemy movements in militia chat. .................It's the eye of the tiger, it's the thrill of the fight Risin' up to the challenge of our rival And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night And he's watchin' us all with the eye of the tiger............... |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
75
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
I have read quite a bit about spies here...
However, there are some really half baked ideas regarding ALL KINDS OF THEORIES which are just basically wrong.
If you check the industry forums you find many people asking why the hulk shouldn't get a buff so it has more tank - so they don't get ganked in highsec so easily by cormorants lol.
These are the GREAT MINDS behind much of eve gameplay.
So tell me this very simply.
If I start FW today as a solo pilot, and I ask for access just to the intel channels that are run by these "in groups" in FW.
And of course intel channels shouldn't have blue intel and should only have RED intel.
What benefit is there for enemies knowing what our red intel is?
Now don't get me wrong, there are a few reasons I can think of - perhaps we don't want THEM to know WE know that they're there - sure but let's face it that's once in every 100 years of eve play with all the metagaming.
Come on seriously given the number of answers in this thread that said "oh we take for granted there are spies in our intel channels anyhow", then why wasn't I just "allowed to join" straight away ?
What is the point of disallowing me access ?!?!
Seriously, you're just sending FW pilots that might fly for you away. I wasn't asking for fleets I was just asking for intel so I could at least find a fight - but not so big a fight to just get blapped straight away.
It just seems to me the fear has taken all reason out of the entire process. I would ask CCP to help - without any idea how they might do that, but I'd suggest people FAR better versed than I on the subject could put away their "spy fear" and think about it. --- Please keep in mind, this isn't a personal attack on anyone. Not am I saying those people having fun in FW or who had/have good experiences joining FW are wrong. I'm just saying this was my experience, and given that CCP kind of advertised FW as the place to go for some PEW if you're in between corps or just out on your own... I didn't get any. Seemed a lot of paranoia instead.
Just think about it. Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
|
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Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
122
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:I have read quite a bit about spies here...
However, there are some really half baked ideas regarding ALL KINDS OF THEORIES which are just basically wrong.
If you check the industry forums you find many people asking why the hulk shouldn't get a buff so it has more tank - so they don't get ganked in highsec so easily by cormorants lol.
These are the GREAT MINDS behind much of eve gameplay.
So tell me this very simply.
If I start FW today as a solo pilot, and I ask for access just to the intel channels that are run by these "in groups" in FW.
And of course intel channels shouldn't have blue intel and should only have RED intel.
What benefit is there for enemies knowing what our red intel is?
Now don't get me wrong, there are a few reasons I can think of - perhaps we don't want THEM to know WE know that they're there - sure but let's face it that's once in every 100 years of eve play with all the metagaming.
Come on seriously given the number of answers in this thread that said "oh we take for granted there are spies in our intel channels anyhow", then why wasn't I just "allowed to join" straight away ?
What is the point of disallowing me access ?!?!
Seriously, you're just sending FW pilots that might fly for you away. I wasn't asking for fleets I was just asking for intel so I could at least find a fight - but not so big a fight to just get blapped straight away.
It just seems to me the fear has taken all reason out of the entire process. I would ask CCP to help - without any idea how they might do that, but I'd suggest people FAR better versed than I on the subject could put away their "spy fear" and think about it. --- Please keep in mind, this isn't a personal attack on anyone. Not am I saying those people having fun in FW or who had/have good experiences joining FW are wrong. I'm just saying this was my experience, and given that CCP kind of advertised FW as the place to go for some PEW if you're in between corps or just out on your own... I didn't get any. Seemed a lot of paranoia instead.
Just think about it.
tl;dr - QQ, bro.
Feel free to let random strangers into your own private channels and comms that are for just you and your mates, but I'll keep doing it the way EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS GAME does it, thank you kindly.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Electra Gaterau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 19:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
Forum troll ate my post :(
Edit:
Anyway all i was going to say is Intel isn't the be all and end all of FW fun. If you ask for access to private channels on day one not only will ppl think you're a possible spy but they may also think you expect to be spoon fed information rather than actively finding your own.
There are ways to avoid gate camps and blobs, doesn't always work but if you learn for yourself and show some initiative it will stand you in better stead for your future endeavours. |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
159
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 20:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
I suspect you won't be satisfied with any reason that anyone gives you. There have been a few reasons stated so far. So let me counter you for a moment;
You've asked for the militia and/or CCP to adopt to you and your ideologies of how FW should operate. Why haven't you considered adopting to current militia standard procedures? Specifically, do the very simple things that Andrea Griffin mentioned. Is it that hard?
I still prefer what's currently in place because it acts as sort of a 'social filter'. If you got in, then it's because you did what Andrea suggested earlier. Or that you have the right contacts who got you in. Like life, high SPs and technical knowledge isn't always enough to get you ahead. Sometimes it's who you know and not what you know. Or sometimes, it's who knows you.
I think it's ironic that you created a corp which is more work than just joining one. I imagine if you want it done properly, you have to do it yourself :)
Furthermore, it would be even more ironic if you were to rejoin FW and could get in because you have a corp and become an ewok like the rest of us :) If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Darvaleth Sigma
Astronautic Research and Innovation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
I am probably going to be rather unhelpful with this post, but there's nothing I can do about that. I'm a newb, I'll admit it.
I was wondering if anybody could give me a rundown on the whole FW thing? Assume I'm a total idiot who's only ever run with a cruiser in L1s and has a day-job hauling minerals in a Badger. What are the pros? What are the cons? What is it all about? Where can I find advice for it? What would be the best way to get into it? How do people starting FW support themselves financially if they're just getting blown up all the time?
I currently play as a Caldari so was thinking to go into FW using a very annoying close-range laser ship, so would that be Amarr or Minimatar? I'd probably branch into stealth operations after so can you give any hints there as well?
Again, I apologise profusely for my very annoying questions, and will be very grateful for anything you could share.
EDIT: My personal bias would lean towards Minimatar as their ships look so damn terrifying. |
Electra Gaterau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
To start with you would need to be +.50 reputation with the faction you wish to join. If your going to min ships you should really train their guns for the ship bonus'.
Pro's from what i have seen are the LP store sell faction stuff real cheap. You get to shoot stuff too which is nice. Con's getting shot at (kind of fun still tho o.0)
For supporting yourself you have FW missions, using an alt to mission/trade/mining (puke). loads really. |
Darvaleth Sigma
Astronautic Research and Innovation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
So essentially propping up my poor-arse blow-all-my-money FW player with my poor-arse-got-no-money main?
Sounds like a plan.
What if I just wanted to run in frigates? Will I be blown to smithereens or are there genuine tactics behind frigates? I'd quite like to be a "small but mighty" threat rather than a "my ship is bigger than the country you live in". |
Electra Gaterau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
Lots of faction frigs and AF being flown atm. most of what i have seen is BC and below. |
Andrea Griffin
142
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:33:00 -
[78] - Quote
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:I was wondering if anybody could give me a rundown on the whole FW thing? The tl;dr of Faction Warfare:
The four major empires in Eve are at war (Amarr and Caldari vs. Minmatar and Gallente). There's several regions of low-security space in which those empires fight for sovereignty by conquering (lots of) complexes and finally a system bunker. When you join FW, you are automatically at war with the opposing factions and will be shot on sight by the faction police or somesuch when in enemy highsec space. You can ignore the whole complex / sovereignty mechanic if you want and just go shoot people, it's just there to encourage fights.
--
The pros: It's a large wardec, lots of war targets, and (for me) the best part is the complex system. The minors only allow destroyers and below, the medums only allow T1 cruisers / T2 frigates and below. So this allows you to scale down your PvP involvement in certain ways if you so choose.
Apparently, the LP stores have cheap stuff, but I have yet to do it myself.
The cons: After a while of running complexes and capturing them and shooting the NPCs inside, the opposite factions will HATE you, and even after you leave FW your standings will be terrible enough that you'll be shut out of their space. If you don't do the complex stuff or the missions, and you just shoot war targets, then your standings don't change (I think, there's probably a nuance or two in there that I'm missing).
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:What would be the best way to get into it? How do people starting FW support themselves financially if they're just getting blown up all the time? Read all the PvP guides you can find, then grab some frigates and hit the minor complexes. Don't be afraid to die, because you will learn a LOT by dying. More than winning. Read the forums too.
Once you have a basic idea of how to kill someone (Target someone, activate guns + tackle, try not to die), go out and do it! When you die, consider sending a mail or a conversation to the person who killed you and see if they'll tell you how they beat you. In my experience, MOST people will be happy to give you a few pointers. Basically, just go out there and do it.
You don't need expensive ships, super high skill points, or full T2 fits to get fights, be useful to a fleet, or even win. All that stuff helps but it isn't a necessity. A long time ago, during the SoE Full Metal Jacket competition, I killed an old player in a T2 fit Punisher with a 2 week old character in a cheap T1 Rifter. You can too.
If you have questions, ASK. For the Amarr, the militia chat is pretty quiet, but if someone asks a question it is usually answered without too much BS. If you can't get your satisfaction there, use the forums or your Eve Friends (you DO have some, right?).
As far as supporting yourself, a lot of FW people run L4 missions in stealth bombers, use the LP to buy faction ships and whatnot, and sell it on the market.
If that isn't your bag or you can't fly bombers or whatever, FW doesn't kill your security status (as long as you're shooting war targets), so if you want to run missions in highsec you still can. Just watch local, because sometimes the enemy will fly up into high sec space looking for kills.
Or you can do all kinds of other typical Eve things for money. Exploration, production, trading, scamming, extortion, whatever. You have 3 character slots on your account; use them. Spending a week training up trade skills can serve you very well over time.
There's no penalty for leaving Faction Warfare. If you create your own corporation you could, for example, join FW for a few weeks and when your wallet is dry, leave. Then spend time making money however you please. When your wallet is fat, rejoin. You might even join a different empire to spice things up a bit!
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:II currently play as a Caldari so was thinking to go into FW using a very annoying close-range laser ship, so would that be Amarr or Minimatar? If you want lasers, go Amarr. Since you're Caldari you probably have some missile skills, and Amarr has some dedicated missile boats anyway.
Minmatar has nice ships too, and some of them work very well shield tank so that leverages your existing Caldari shield skills. But, it doesn't matter what empire's ships you fly, really. Everyone has good options. But I must warn you that the Minmatar ships, while they look fierce, often have this terrible odor that you just can't get rid of... : > It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
161
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:10:00 -
[79] - Quote
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:
What are the pros?
Geting lolz by watching Loren Gallen's KB
Getting ganked by Loren Gallen and being added to his KB
Quote:What is it all about?
Loren Gallen
Quote:Where can I find advice for it?
Definitely not Loren Gallen
>>>What would be the best way to get into it?
Getting ganked by Loren Gallen and learning from it
Quote:How do people starting FW support themselves financially if they're just getting blown up all the time?
By being Loren Gallen and blowing others up
That is all.
If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Pulgy
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
46
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 04:50:00 -
[80] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Geting lolz by watching Loren Gallen's KB Getting ganked by Loren Gallen and being added to his KB Quote:What is it all about? Loren Gallen Quote:Where can I find advice for it? Definitely not Loren Gallen >>>What would be the best way to get into it? Getting ganked by Loren Gallen and learning from it Quote:How do people starting FW support themselves financially if they're just getting blown up all the time?
By being Loren Gallen and blowing others up
somebody's in love Monkeys writing-á Shakespeare? That's like putting CCP in charge of game balance and content updates. |
|
Lahnea
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 19:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Pulgy wrote:
somebody's in love
Indeed. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
430
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:16:00 -
[82] - Quote
Every new Gallente militia pilot thinks when they join:
"Some day when I grow up I want to be as cool as Loren Garren."
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Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 04:11:00 -
[83] - Quote
He's sooo dreamy. SLAPD - Corp Janitor |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 05:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:I suspect you won't be satisfied with any reason that anyone gives you. There have been a few reasons stated so far. So let me counter you for a moment;
You've asked for the militia and/or CCP to adopt to you and your ideologies of how FW should operate. Why haven't you considered adopting to current militia standard procedures? Specifically, do the very simple things that Andrea Griffin mentioned. Is it that hard?
I still prefer what's currently in place because it acts as sort of a 'social filter'. If you got in, then it's because you did what Andrea suggested earlier. Or that you have the right contacts who got you in. Like life, high SPs and technical knowledge isn't always enough to get you ahead. Sometimes it's who you know and not what you know. Or sometimes, it's who knows you.
I think it's ironic that you created a corp which is more work than just joining one. I imagine if you want it done properly, you have to do it yourself :)
Furthermore, it would be even more ironic if you were to rejoin FW and could get in because you have a corp and become an ewok like the rest of us :)
That **** is just ego's gone awry. Many people play these games GENERALLY to get away from this kind of **** IRL.
"You have to know who's who before you're allowed in the club" is not a valid way of pilot selection or even spy filter.
That's just enabling people who can so easily **** with your perceptions. They are anonymous and can say or do anything to get into the club.
I shudder to think how many pilots you guys have turned off FW over the years with this dynamic.
It is of absolutely no loss to me to not be doing FW at this point. I was there only and completely for the pew, in between doing something with more substance.
If you cannot understand what I'm getting at fine, but the "boys club is necessary" is one of the most brainless posts I think I might've ever seen on eve-o and that's saying something.
CSM7 Industry Voting Guide
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Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
125
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:44:00 -
[85] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:I suspect you won't be satisfied with any reason that anyone gives you. There have been a few reasons stated so far. So let me counter you for a moment;
You've asked for the militia and/or CCP to adopt to you and your ideologies of how FW should operate. Why haven't you considered adopting to current militia standard procedures? Specifically, do the very simple things that Andrea Griffin mentioned. Is it that hard?
I still prefer what's currently in place because it acts as sort of a 'social filter'. If you got in, then it's because you did what Andrea suggested earlier. Or that you have the right contacts who got you in. Like life, high SPs and technical knowledge isn't always enough to get you ahead. Sometimes it's who you know and not what you know. Or sometimes, it's who knows you.
I think it's ironic that you created a corp which is more work than just joining one. I imagine if you want it done properly, you have to do it yourself :)
Furthermore, it would be even more ironic if you were to rejoin FW and could get in because you have a corp and become an ewok like the rest of us :) That **** is just ego's gone awry. Many people play these games GENERALLY to get away from this kind of **** IRL. "You have to know who's who before you're allowed in the club" is not a valid way of pilot selection or even spy filter. That's just enabling people who can so easily **** with your perceptions. They are anonymous and can say or do anything to get into the club. I shudder to think how many pilots you guys have turned off FW over the years with this dynamic. It is of absolutely no loss to me to not be doing FW at this point. I was there only and completely for the pew, in between doing something with more substance. If you cannot understand what I'm getting at fine, but the "boys club is necessary" is one of the most brainless posts I think I might've ever seen on eve-o and that's saying something.
Mate, we're describing how :LIFE: works. If you're hiring for a position, you don't hire someone because they say "Hey, you don't know me, you know nothing about me, but give me this senior position anyway".
If you are so close-minded that you feel immediately entitled to everything that you might want on a whim (and you throw a tantrum when you don't get it spoon-fed to you), that is too bad.
People have worked hard to create a FW community/brother-hood and we aren't going to let some narcissistic moron into secure op channels just because he says "let me into your secure op channels". We'd be moronic if we did that.
Getting into fleets out in nullsec might be easy as cake because you're 1 man out of 100+ and the ability for you to rain on the parade is diminished as opposed to being 1 man out of 10, and you might be inclined to do that from sheer ineptitude or for malicious reasons: either way, it is much more important to protect the integrity and security of a fleet when it is small than when it is large because 1 man can do a lot of damage.
Have fun running your own corp, I'm sure you'll find some other self-entitled morons that like your panache (read: idiocy) and you can go about doing whatever you want.
tl;dr - we've given you explanations, we've given you justifications. if you refuse to even recognize those (you don't have to agree!), repeating ourselves isn't going to help your mental condition.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:I have read quite a bit about spies here...
However, there are some really half baked ideas regarding ALL KINDS OF THEORIES which are just basically wrong.
If you check the industry forums you find many people asking why the hulk shouldn't get a buff so it has more tank - so they don't get ganked in highsec so easily by cormorants lol.
These are the GREAT MINDS behind much of eve gameplay.
So tell me this very simply.
If I start FW today as a solo pilot, and I ask for access just to the intel channels that are run by these "in groups" in FW.
And of course intel channels shouldn't have blue intel and should only have RED intel.
What benefit is there for enemies knowing what our red intel is?
Now don't get me wrong, there are a few reasons I can think of - perhaps we don't want THEM to know WE know that they're there - sure but let's face it that's once in every 100 years of eve play with all the metagaming.
Come on seriously given the number of answers in this thread that said "oh we take for granted there are spies in our intel channels anyhow", then why wasn't I just "allowed to join" straight away ?
What is the point of disallowing me access ?!?!
Seriously, you're just sending FW pilots that might fly for you away. I wasn't asking for fleets I was just asking for intel so I could at least find a fight - but not so big a fight to just get blapped straight away.
It just seems to me the fear has taken all reason out of the entire process. I would ask CCP to help - without any idea how they might do that, but I'd suggest people FAR better versed than I on the subject could put away their "spy fear" and think about it. --- Please keep in mind, this isn't a personal attack on anyone. Not am I saying those people having fun in FW or who had/have good experiences joining FW are wrong. I'm just saying this was my experience, and given that CCP kind of advertised FW as the place to go for some PEW if you're in between corps or just out on your own... I didn't get any. Seemed a lot of paranoia instead.
Just think about it.
Thought about it, but keep coming to the same result which is - You understand that the solution is to join a player corp. So why not try it?
I prefer running my own small corp which can be a barrier just as being in the NPC corp is- but after a week being blown up people will see you are having a go and let you into coms and fleets.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
163
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:09:00 -
[87] - Quote
Why are you so angry? The system isn't foolproof. It just seems like you're hellbent on wanting the system to change but you know and I know that it won't. Btw- I wasn't saying that networking, as a social filter, should get you an in and be considered a foolproof method to weed out spies. It isn't because of the reasons you stated in regards to manipulation and puppetry.
I was referencing Andrea's "socializing" her activity that got her noticed. He says hi in local. He communicates enemy movement in chat. He got in. What's so hard about doing that? It takes barely a minute to do this a few times a week. You've certainly spent more time on these threads and it still hasn't gotten you anywhere :)
I don't expect to change your mind and that's fine. If anything, I'm just amused by all of this.
I still think you (or anyone reading this) should at least consider that being sociable and leveraging your social skills should and does get you ahead in this game as it does in life. Don't easily dismiss this facet of the game. Let me conclude it with this;
Consider Mittani as a perfect example. For all his narcissism and metagamming nonsense, he wields power because of his ability to be a social animal. That, above all else, is why he is currently relevant. He buys drinks for CCP employees at the Summits to make it look like he's working hard at cultivating relationships and being a 'uniter'. He schmoozes and sweet talks his own alliance mates and allies. He knows how to put a delicate spin on lemmings to force them to believe whatever he wants them to believe. His speeches are not only articulate (relative to some of the Alliance CEOs in nullsec) but he understands how to craft the language behind it to make him more appealing . Not bad for a guy who has admitted that he doesn't play alot and much prefers metagamming, from an article I recall a year ago. And his KB isn't anything outstanding. But yet here he is; the one polarizing figure people love to talk about. Why? Because he understands something you haven't fully grasped yet; we're all social animals.
There's a reason why Goons is one of the few nullsec alliances who recruit total noobs. They're totally new to the game. Incapable of thinking independently. Susceptible for whatever message you wish to preach. Sounds like a perfect scenario to influence folks with your own propaganda er message. Well, that and they make for great meat shields :)
Hell, look at his CSM introduction thread. He knows how to get people to relate to him. He subtly implies alot of things by using what is referred to as "social proof" . He likes cute dogs like Alaskan Huskies. Who doesn't like cute lovable animals? He thinks CCP Punkturus is 'alright'. What guy here doesn't like a cute girl? He is posting "social proofs" as a way to get us to relate to him and make it look like he's just 'one of the guys'. And you know what? It works pretty darn well for him.
I'm not part of his alliance so I do not have an internal understanding about everything that goes on. However, the nature of what I do in real life gives me ALOT of confidence to state with a high degree of certainty that he already knows what I am articulating; That in a game of internet spacehips, we're still social animals and subject to being influenced. He doesn't deal with spaceships or moon goo. He deals, influences, and manipulates people.
Life this game, life isn't perfect. I accept that pretty girls will get ahead in the corporate world for their looks. I accept that aggressive fast talking salesfolks will get ahead despite the fact they may know nothing about the product at hand. I accept that a jerk can sweet talk girls at the bar will get laid more than the 'nice guy' who does everything right . I don't look to change these things. I accept them as is.
That's life my friend; C'est la vie. Or was it C'est La Eve ? If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Princess Nexxala
The Rock Hard Roosters Villore Accords
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 16:26:00 -
[88] - Quote
Wait... you are playing Eve to get away from egos? ....that, in all seriousness, is the stupidest ******* thing I have ever heard anyone say about this game. Eve players == egotistical pricks 90% of the time. What our "boys club" filters out is the arrogant dipshits who don't know what they are talking about but think they do. (90% of above 90%, usually null scrubs). We actually encourage spies tbh, its gets us more pew. Assholes and people with **** attitudes however will always find themselves on the outside of every group. Good luck
Revolution Rising wrote: That **** is just ego's gone awry. Many people play these games GENERALLY to get away from this kind of **** IRL.
"You have to know who's who before you're allowed in the club" is not a valid way of pilot selection or even spy filter.
That's just enabling people who can so easily **** with your perceptions. They are anonymous and can say or do anything to get into the club.
I shudder to think how many pilots you guys have turned off FW over the years with this dynamic.
It is of absolutely no loss to me to not be doing FW at this point. I was there only and completely for the pew, in between doing something with more substance.
If you cannot understand what I'm getting at fine, but the "boys club is necessary" is one of the most brainless posts I think I might've ever seen on eve-o and that's saying something.
Is sexy time? |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
293
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Posted - 2012.03.01 23:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
You can be in faction war and not know anyone. You can have allot of fun doing that. I flew solo allot and still do occasionally. If you don't know what your doing in pvp you shouldn't expect people who aren't in your corp to take time to teach you. Sometimes they will, but its not your right to have other people explain how the game works to you.
The issue op seems to have is not about faction war. It seems to be you are upset about people not inviting you to fleet up. Thats something a bit different.
If you don't know how to pvp get in a corp that says they are willing to help newer players in exchange for their commitment to the corp. But if you aren't even willing to commit to their corp at all and just want people to teach you while you are in your own corp. Well thats not always going to work out like you hope. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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