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TauTut
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Posted - 2004.04.03 21:47:00 -
[1]
I look at the in game videos produced and watch the $$$'s go up in smoke.
What takes some people months to earn - others seem to **** away in a 5 minute battle.
I appreciate that its the point of this game but what I'm wondering is this - is that kind of high powered combat experience limited to a relatively few corps? Is it limited to those corps who established themselves at the outset of the game and claimed regions of 0.0 - hence own the royal bank of megacyte!
If you're in a situation where your Alliance claims a region of 0.0 - you can afford to replace your BS fleet. The only time you're going to be challenged is by another Alliance with the mega bucks to replace losses with the same ease.
I guess what I'm saying is - is Eve in danger of becoming a two class game where the higher levels of combat are reserved to those already established in 0.0 ???
No flames .. peace.
-TT
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 21:55:00 -
[2]
No. It's been that way from the beginning.
Fairly new players that really are good gamers doesn't really have a problem to move out and be members of an alliance if they want to.
And that players make that much in outer space is a myth.
Most players out there are there for PvP, not for some "who can get most isk before he quits"-contest.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
PaulAtreides
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Posted - 2004.04.03 21:56:00 -
[3]
People in 0.0 normally have more combat experiance then people in empire. So...yes.
Want to work for me? |
Jyin'sho
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Posted - 2004.04.03 21:58:00 -
[4]
I would whole heartedly agree, to me the ore distro needs tweaking to make 0.4 - 0.1 more profitable , with alliances covering all the major mining points it is crippling the smaller players with the hiked up zyd and mega prices.
WHat takes alliances a few hours to make is impossible even in unsecure empire space.
As to alliance warfare scenarios it appears to be wars of attrition, the bigger bank balances win out in the end.
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:11:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
I would whole heartedly agree, to me the ore distro needs tweaking to make 0.4 - 0.1 more profitable , with alliances covering all the major mining points it is crippling the smaller players with the hiked up zyd and mega prices.
WHat takes alliances a few hours to make is impossible even in unsecure empire space.
You sir, has no idea at all about things.
You can mine ore worth a ****load of money in empire without taking any risk at all.
Mining in 0.0 requires lots of transportation and is a big risk from both players and NPCs.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
TauTut
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:15:00 -
[6]
Edited by: TauTut on 03/04/2004 22:22:18
Dal .. I said no flames.
This isn't a personal attack on alliances - it's an attempt to discuss whether alliances, due to access to wealth, have exclusive access to the top tier of combat experience.
How is Stain these days by the way??
Poor spelling 
-TT
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Jyin'sho
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:23:00 -
[7]
YEs I know its a risk dal but you do earn 10 times the amount of cash for the same time mining in empire even more.
Two friends with lowish mining skills mined 0.0 for 6 hours made 140 million now I wish i could do that in non secure empire. 
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:27:00 -
[8]
"No flaming", well, I only told him/her the truth.
"How is Stain these day by the way??"
Best ore in Stain is Gneiss. And if you try to mine a whole day you'll for sure get a spawn of 1x1M + 2x750k battleships + 6x85k cruisers spawning upon you (within scrambling/webbing range).
If you want ark you need to mine at least 10 jumps from a station. You'll sure as **** get battleship NPCs spawning right on top of you there too, and you'll have hostile frigates trying to pop your industrials.
If you use one of the new stations... well, only 1/3 of them has refinery. If you start some full-scale mining close to them you'll have an enemy fleet of 20 battleships there pretty soon.
So tell me how the person that I "flamed" can claim what he/she did?
We're having fun and doing just fine though.
But if we went into empire mining with our corp, we would do more money and not take any risks at all.
But we're in this game for PvP.
That's the difference.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jyin'sho
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:37:00 -
[9]
To refute your claims on of my employees has been solo mining in 0.0 today in a cruiser, she has managed to clear 4000 megacyte single handedly which equates to around 30-40 million, even with the best ships and haulage i can in no way match that amount single handedly.
You may not have the best roids in your area to mine but I'm sure as hell it beats mining empire space in the time vs profits equation.
( sorry if this sounds flame like but thre is no comparison between empire vs deep 0.0 mining)
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:47:00 -
[10]
No.
Because the point is: YOU CAN'T RUN A BIG MINING OP IN 0.0 SPACE.
You can have 1, 2, 3 maybe 4 guys "ninja mining".
They will do HUGE profits.
But you can't mine with all your corp. Only a fraction of your corp can mine.
Looking at a few individuals, they make much better profit it 0.0 space.
Looking at a whole corp, the corp makes better profit in empire space.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jyin'sho
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:51:00 -
[11]
Then logic dictates that you split your miing ops up and make even more profits than the empire miners.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:54:00 -
[12]
of course you make **** loads of money in alliance space, dont even try to deny it! see FA for example, what do you think they are doing now? MINING ARKONOR!!!
you can see it everywhere, the alliance dudes whining becouse battleships is so easy to replace but for us in empire space its difficult and will take days...
"We brake for nobody"
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 22:59:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Then logic dictates that you split your miing ops up and make even more profits than the empire miners.
There are 2 entrances to stain. There are 1 station in catch, 1 in esoteria and 1 in paragorn soul with refineries.
Total of 5 possible places to ship your ore.
Only in our corp, we have like 20 members online. -> 5 groups of 4 ninja mining at each place.
Add all the other corps...
That logic doesn't work.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:15:00 -
[14]
Quote:
of course you make **** loads of money in alliance space, dont even try to deny it! see FA for example, what do you think they are doing now? MINING ARKONOR!!!
Well, go out there and mine their ark you too. Or stop them from mining it.
Shouldn't be that hard, right?
Quote:
you can see it everywhere, the alliance dudes whining becouse battleships is so easy to replace but for us in empire space its difficult and will take days...
Bull****.
Tier 2 battleship with standard mods = 110M.
Insurance payout = 105M.
Insurance cost = 35M.
Something like that, right (or even less loss)?
Total loss = 40M.
An apoc mining in empire brings in that in 2 days without taking any risk at all.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:21:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Well, go out there and mine their ark you too. Or stop them from mining it.
Shouldn't be that hard, right?
how can i mine in their space? its locked down...
Quote:
An apoc mining in empire brings in that in 2 days without taking any risk at all.
thats what i said, DAYS!
but if it was a alliance dude losing it, he could just mine some ark for some hours. the spawns in down in the 0.0 i have been in can almost be taken out solo withh bs so have 2 bs protecting while 2 bs mining and some other dudes hauling...
i doubt the risk is big in Fountain atm?
"We brake for nobody"
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Jyin'sho
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:22:00 -
[16]
and so did one solo miner in 0.0 , let alone two whoe cleared 140 mill in 6 hours now explain to me how i can mine 70 mill in 6 hours in empire?
If its possible I'd really like to know how
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:26:00 -
[17]
Quote:
and so did one solo miner in 0.0 , let alone two whoe cleared 140 mill in 6 hours now explain to me how i can mine 70 mill in 6 hours in empire?
If its possible I'd really like to know how
No, you can't. And I already explained it.
Reposting it for you:
Because the point is: YOU CAN'T RUN A BIG MINING OP IN 0.0 SPACE.
You can have 1, 2, 3 maybe 4 guys "ninja mining".
They will do HUGE profits.
But you can't mine with all your corp. Only a fraction of your corp can mine.
Looking at a few individuals, they make much better profit it 0.0 space.
Looking at a whole corp, the corp makes better profit in empire space.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:27:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Because the point is: YOU CAN'T RUN A BIG MINING OP IN 0.0 SPACE.
why?
"We brake for nobody"
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TauTut
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:27:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Bull****.
Tier 2 battleship with standard mods = 110M.
Insurance payout = 105M.
Insurance cost = 35M.
Something like that, right (or even less loss)?
Total loss = 40M.
An apoc mining in empire brings in that in 2 days without taking any risk at all.
40 mil in two days with a single Apoc in Empire ..... you must be playing a different game pal.
-TT
Background
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:29:00 -
[20]
Quote:
how can i mine in their space? its locked down...
It's not locked down unless they have large mobile warpdisruptors at all the entrances guarded 23/7. I seriously doubt that they have.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:32:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Quote:
how can i mine in their space? its locked down...
It's not locked down unless they have large mobile warpdisruptors at all the entrances guarded 23/7. I seriously doubt that they have.
its easy to get in, but to mine in peace and haul to their stations is a different matter!
"We brake for nobody"
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:34:00 -
[22]
Quote:
40 mil in two days with a single Apoc in Empire ..... you must be playing a different game pal.
You do know that an Apoc with good mining skills brings in 1080 m^3 ore per minute, right?
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Nirvy
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:34:00 -
[23]
Bah
I have been playing 10 months, i have been in a tiny n00b corp, i have been Director of Black Omega, i have been a Curse Alliance Council member, and now i am in my own small Merc PvP corp.
Quite simply If your experienced, making money/mins for a battlesip is a pice of cake, especially in Empire.
I mean you Miners are quite happy flying a mammoth around with 4 27.44% expanders on, which totals about 100m isk worth. (PS yes i did grab those from a corp im at war with), but you cant raise 50misk for a Scorp? I mean hell, that one indy i killed has bought me a new tyhpoon and platinum insurance..
Even mining solo is easy, when i decided to leave Curse Alliance i spent my last 24 hours mining solid, i came out with enough mega/zydrine to make 10 battleships..that was on my one..**** easy.
Even in empire cash is so easy to make, i bought up 15m pyerite that was on offer in an out of the way region for 4.1isk each, 3 hours of hauling later i have it on sale for 6isk in a highway system, hey presto, 30m profit by paying hauling some pyerite 4 jumps.
Jusding from Empire space, 75% of people are flying battleships, so dont tell me you guys cant afford them, i mean hell i live in empire and i have 4 of em, the only difference is, the corps in 0.0 space are normally more veteran to eve, and normally have much superior teamwork/skill to the newer empire corps.
Besides, now insurance lasts a stupidly long 3 month, you lose not a thing with platinum insuarnce, even my own 3 memeber corp has the blueprinters to make most mod, and enough 1 run bship bp's to make a new ship.
Mercenary | The Azath |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:37:00 -
[24]
I agree with dalman. Its more profitable for small teams to mine in 0.0, but if you try it on a massive scale you end up blobbing the map and making yourself a huge target. And most regions with ark or bist have only a few places where you can refine, in most cases just one. All 0.0 regions with these stations are in a state of constant war.
And even if you do net a lot of profits in one day with a small team, losing even one battleship (very easy) can mean hours and hours of work gone, if not the whole day. Getting podded means hours before you can get another ship if you dont have one available there already. A decent sized indi lost to frigate raids means about 10mil isk in ore lost, prior to any implants or expanders. In secure Empire space you'll NEVER get podded, you can use your best expanders, you only have to run back to the station and not through constant blockades. You can mine a lot isk per minute in terms of bistot and ark, but you dont realize that hauling is usually 10-15 jumps one way at best.
To answer your question about people "****ing away" their battleships, the answer is simple. Most people in 0.0 space are established/experienced players so more combat happens on a whole. CONCORD is never there to save you, and your only choices are fight or flee. If you enter 0.0 space with a battleship, very little experience and the inability to replace it, you WILL get screwed. Even an experienced player feels the sting if you lose a tier 2 ship, implants, rare mods, insurance money and all that. In all likelyhood you'll die more often too.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.04.03 23:38:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Even mining solo is easy, when i decided to leave Curse Alliance i spent my last 24 hours mining solid, i came out with enough mega/zydrine to make 10 battleships..that was on my one..**** easy.
yes, thats what im saying. mining in 0.0 gives you **** load of money...
you wanna know how i got my battleship? i mined in CA's backyard. not in empire space...
"We brake for nobody"
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Tatsue Nuko
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Posted - 2004.04.04 00:02:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 04/04/2004 00:06:58
Sum of the thread:
0.0 Space: extremely profitable for a few, but a lot more work due to long hauls, raids, ****** NPC's and general world war. Not good for large ops - large mining ops will blob the map, creating an open invitation to pirates and/or alliance enemies.
Empire insecure: not as profitable for a few devoted people, but allows for larger ops (if a threat comes up just jump to someplace with sentry guns) and thus higher total profits.
Empire secure: who mines there after their first cruiser? Ah, but seriously, I am actually thinking about mining in secure soon. Running out of Trit and Pyr.
Minor addendum: BTW Iceblock, methinks you should check your premisses on the issue that it takes "DAYS" to replace a tier2 battleshio in empire.
I mean... DUH! It's a friggin' BATTLESHIP. It's bigger than some cities. It's got (according to pre-release ship info) thousands of crewmen. It _should take more than a days only to build the thing in the factory, so having a few days of mining to get the minerals and get it built really isn't something to weep about.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.04.04 12:15:00 -
[27]
Quote:
I mean... DUH! It's a friggin' BATTLESHIP. It's bigger than some cities. It's got (according to pre-release ship info) thousands of crewmen. It _should take more than a days only to build the thing in the factory, so having a few days of mining to get the minerals and get it built really isn't something to weep about.
but im not whining about it. im just saying that for alliance people, replacing a battleship is nothing, but for us in empire its hard...
"We brake for nobody"
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.04 12:21:00 -
[28]
I was ****poor the entire time I was in an alliance - the most isk I ever had was 20M and that was spent on buying the low-end minerals for my first Scorpion battleship.
As part of Everlasting Vendetta, I really had no need for isk - everything was provided for me (insurance, ammo, modules) and my battleship got replaced if it was destroyed.
Now that I'm out of alliance/mega-corps I'm richer than I have ever been and I'm in 0.0 space that much except to have a look into Syndicate/Providence.
So yes, corporations in alliances are generally very rich but they have need of those riches. They have to fight for the right to mine/hunt in those areas.
That's not a bad thing - someone had to make a claim for those areas and, to be honest, I don't think the game would be the way it is now withut 0.0 alliances.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.04.04 12:31:00 -
[29]
I can earn 15 million an hour solo in a cruiser in non-alliance space with a pirate-free path back and forth of only 50-60 jumps. No arkanon either.
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Shredder
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Posted - 2004.04.04 15:24:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Shredder on 04/04/2004 15:27:06
Mining with your whole corp in 0.0 space is a dodle. You have one guy chaining a small spawn of npc pirates the whole time = no danger. Then you have say 5 apocs mining, and around 4 good haulers hauling the ore. You can make well over a billion a day from 10 people mining.
But frankly insurance pays for new ships, and you just need like 20mil to replace the insurance. So no one looses much.. oh and if you're a hardened pvper you dont die much :P
Ofc you need to have access to 0.0 space in the first place... but then my corp is Curse alliance, where we mine we can see any attack coming hours before hand (since we're so deep in 0.0 space).
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