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Ne0 MaTrIx The Kovert Kollection Krew	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:25:23 Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:15:19 THIS IS NOT ABOUT REGULAR SUICIDE GANKING (Brutix, Raven Fleets etc etc) I have seen an ever-more-common, fleet of suicide gank kestrels in Jita (less than a day, 1day old...) It would appear the same set of people are using trial accounts, getting them to -2.0 then using new trial accounts. If they aren't trial accounts (some of you might say alts on the main account) I know for a fact trashing/recycling alts for suicide ganking is an exploit, so if its recycle alts why havn't these guys been punished? Any one else see this as an exploit? But I can't see any way to 'fix' it.. The punishment of suicide ganking is losing sec + losing your ship, but they're negating one of the punishments.. CCP could stop this and isk spammers by removing trial accounts ! :) [ 2008.02.28 06:01:12 ] (notify) 0123456789987654321: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:12 ] (notify) bianhao01: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:12 ] (notify) 0wohao: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:12 ] (notify) yoylsaesr: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:12 ] (notify) QNMD00: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:12 ] (notify) 48488481: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:12 ] (notify) 10101212010: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:13 ] (notify) dianerche: You have foolishly engaged... [ 2008.02.28 06:01:13 ] (notify) 11XX11: You have foolishly engaged... ---
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:17:00 - [2] please think about what removing trial accounts would do.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:23:00 - [3] Just be thankful Kestrals can no longer launch Cruise missiles Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Ne0 MaTrIx The Kovert Kollection Krew	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:28:00 - [4] Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:28:03 Originally by: MotherMoon please think about what removing trial accounts would do. No ISK spammed local... No ISK spammed trade channels... No trial account suiciders... Im not seeing your point? Sure it'd cut new customers by a %, but not entirely, if you're friend says a game is good enough you'll pay ú7 to test it out (or they can buy you a gtc ingame) + much more enjoyable experience for the 200,000 current players. ---
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Ne0 MaTrIx Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:28:03 Originally by: MotherMoon please think about what removing trial accounts would do. No ISK spammed local... No ISK spammed trade channels... No trial account suiciders... Im not seeing your point? Sure it'd cut new customers by a %, but not entirely, if you're friend says a game is good enough you'll pay ú7 to test it out (or they can buy you a gtc ingame) + much more enjoyable experience for the 200,000 current players. I wouldn't pay for a game to try it out. and I don't get ú9 an hour I get ú3.5 an hour
Hypothetical Axe Gang	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:33:00 - [6] IIRC, creating a new character for suiciding every time your sec drops too low IS considered an exploit by CCP, and technically you can't have a trial account if you already have a paid account. Try petitioning them, it's probably useless, since I'm not sure how CCP would enforce this, but they are breaking several rules.
Ne0 MaTrIx The Kovert Kollection Krew	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:34:00 - [7] Originally by: MotherMoon I wouldn't pay for a game to try it out. and I don't get ú9 an hour I get ú3.5 an hour Or do something silly and make trial accounts $2/ú1 - Stops mass use of them, but cheaps them cheap enough for genuine consumers ---
SkwisgaarSkwigelf C.R.M Productions Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:39:00 - [8] horrible idea, I know I would never pay to run a 2 week trial account, and neither would anyone I know.
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:39:00 - [9] Hey, look at those names, looks like either the Chinese macrominers have turned sinister or someone else is running macro rings
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Ne0 MaTrIx Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:36:10 Originally by: MotherMoon I wouldn't pay for a game to try it out. and I don't get ú9 an hour I get ú3.5 an hour Don't understand why you're talking about your wages.. But how about do something silly and make trial accounts $2/ú1 - Stops mass use of them, but cheaps them cheap enough for genuine consumers what do you mean why am I talking about my wages? I'm talking about minimum wage for half of the eve playerbase. the way you would do it then eve would take a credit card to get a trail account, so why not just do that? no cash at all.
Planktal Kenshao Industries	Posted - 2008.02.28 06:47:00 - [11] Edited by: Planktal on 28/02/2008 06:47:28 an MMO lives or dies on the number of new players that come in to replace the ones that leave. no trials = no EVE, period! Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard. Whiners
Myros Glimmbrand Ganja Co	Posted - 2008.02.28 07:12:00 - [12] Could it be people taking the advice that someone posted ... paraphrasing: the only way to get CCP to do anything about it is for everyone to start doing it. Not condoning it, just struck me as being possible thats whats happening ;p Myros CEO Ganja Co
Dramaan	Posted - 2008.02.28 07:30:00 - [13] Edited by: Dramaan on 28/02/2008 07:32:40 If people suicide every time they kill some one it who'd be no players left in eve. So you see there are no suicide problem in eve.
Bellator Militaris Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:26:00 - [14] At times Eve can be a ruthless, cold-blooded, heartless game. But that's what makes it fun.
Kcrow Caldari Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:33:00 - [15] Don't go to Jita. /Fixed . We do what we must because we can for the good of all of us, except for the ones who are dead but there's no sense crying over every mistake you just keep on trying until you run out of cake
Bellator Militaris Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:35:00 - [16] At times Eve can be a ruthless, cold-blooded, heartless game. But that's what makes it fun.
Pedro Snachez	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:51:00 - [17] While I think suicide ganking using trial accounts is an exploit (or at the very least outside of game mechanics), removing trial accounts wouldn't be a positive step. I for one don't know if I would have started Eve without the trial. But I've been thinking about the problem (and I do believe it is a problem), and what if you made actions resulting in a Concording actually impossible in High-sec for trial accounts. As in, you start a trial account for ganking and you fire at a Hulk/Badger/whatever. You get a message saying this is a criminal action and is not allowed in High Sec. That's it. No shot fired. This would have multiple positive outcomes: A) The actual new player sees his error and learns what is a concordable offense without the frustration of losing his ship. B) It makes ganking viable, but only from those willing to put in the time and effort to keep their sec status up. C) The ban on high-sec aggression does not apply to low-sec, allowing new pilots intent on piracy to try it out, but in low sec where it more appropriately belongs. As far as this problem is concerned, this struck me as the most effective way to deal with the problem of trial account abuse.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:59:00 - [18] rather than making people pay for a trial or scrapping it all together why not make people sign up with a credit/debit card? Allow them to pay with GTC's after the first month. If in that time the account spams isk, ect then the credit/debit card can be blocked. No more isk spammers, suicidal trial gankers and other assorted scum.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.02.28 09:44:00 - [19] prevent npc corp pilots from being able to shoot people in highsec
gfldex Kabelkopp	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin prevent npc corp pilots from being able to shoot people in highsec Creating a corp is cheap and getting all those alts in would take not more then a few minutes. You need sleep. I really hope you need sleep. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Fanjita	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:19:00 - [21] Originally by: MotherMoon please think about what removing trial accounts would do. Help relieve lag? yay great idea /signed
Fanjita	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:20:00 - [22] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Ne0 MaTrIx Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:36:10 Originally by: MotherMoon I wouldn't pay for a game to try it out. and I don't get ú9 an hour I get ú3.5 an hour Don't understand why you're talking about your wages.. But how about do something silly and make trial accounts $2/ú1 - Stops mass use of them, but cheaps them cheap enough for genuine consumers what do you mean why am I talking about my wages? I'm talking about minimum wage for half of the eve playerbase. the way you would do it then eve would take a credit card to get a trail account, so why not just do that? no cash at all. I'd report your employer minimum wahe is ú4.50/hr
Granmethedon III R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Fanjita Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Ne0 MaTrIx Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:36:10 Originally by: MotherMoon I wouldn't pay for a game to try it out. and I don't get ú9 an hour I get ú3.5 an hour Don't understand why you're talking about your wages.. But how about do something silly and make trial accounts $2/ú1 - Stops mass use of them, but cheaps them cheap enough for genuine consumers what do you mean why am I talking about my wages? I'm talking about minimum wage for half of the eve playerbase. the way you would do it then eve would take a credit card to get a trail account, so why not just do that? no cash at all. I'd report your employer minimum wahe is ú4.50/hr In the UK. And only if you're over a certain age. Lot of people who play Eve that match neither of those criteria....
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:51:00 - [24] Maybe just prevent trial accounts from shooting first at other players in empire? Sure, it'd prevent trial players from 'exploring the profession of suicide ganker', but tbh no completely new player does that.... Maybe also prevent alt recycling altogether..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Z3r0n THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:05:00 - [25] Dropping trial account completley would suck because I think 95% of the people that start an MMORPG are gonna want to test it.... I personally never even touch a game that I have to pay for before getting to test it. Thats why I never even took a sideways glance at Linage 2. If you think I'll pay 45$ for a game that may well suck donkey you-know-whats then you need to get your mental health checked out. Even if I only had to pay 1$ I still wouldn't test it - free trials have to remain free. A solution for all the trial account problems (massive ISK-selling spam everywhere you look, macro haulers and now suiciding) would be to simply give every subscriber a buddy key for their friends. Initially you'd get 3 buddy keys when you activate your account and every time one of these trial accounts is updated to a paying account, the person that provided the trial gets a new key sent to them. If any of the 3 trial keys are used for anything evil (such as spam) then the person that provided the key gets all their trial keys (and future trial keys) deleted and gets added to a watch-list because it's likley they support ISK sellers. That way there are still free trials available for "real" newbs and the person that gives out the trial keys also has some responsibility (so people don't just post their trials on the forums or something). They could post the keys once but would then be excluded from any future buddy- or trial programs because they gave their buddy pass to a spammer. If CCP notices that this change is killing the number of new players then they could always make two levels of trial accounts: the above mentioned trial accounts (3 per subscriber) which have the same restrictions as today and a "public" trial (infinite number available on homepage) but they would be heavily nerfed, couldn't chat outside of the "trial help chat", can't send mails, can't fly anything other then noob ships, can't commit criminal acts etc. Then the spammers will run out of trials really quickly but legitimate trials would still be possible. Currently Training: ePeen Compensation Rank (19)
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:06:00 - [26] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 28/02/2008 12:06:41 Originally by: Granmethedon III Quote: I'd report your employer minimum wahe is ú4.50/hr In the UK. And only if you're over a certain age. Lot of people who play Eve that match neither of those criteria.... Thought it was ú5.50/hr to anyone over 18? Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:06:00 - [27] Just do what countless other MMOs do: Only allow character deletion after it is x days/weeks old. Won't stop the dedicated trasher/recreator, but it will slow them down. Or, at the very least, make them pay for having more accounts to keep up with it.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:12:00 - [28] We simply just need the insurance on Concord kills removed. Highsec ganking is like PvP where you wait for the target and you choose without the target can preapre against you. And with no or a very small cost for a very high reward. The trial accounts also needs to be nerfed. But thats mainly due to all the spammers and other things. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Jeff K	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Shintai We simply just need the insurance on Concord kills removed. Highsec ganking is like PvP where you wait for the target and you choose without the target can preapre against you. And with no or a very small cost for a very high reward. The trial accounts also needs to be nerfed. But thats mainly due to all the spammers and other things. oh god, you fail so badly
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:16:00 - [30] Lets see now, I don't get a trial account on Team Fortress or Half-Life 2 to try it out and they are considerably more expensive. If Eve heads to steam and sets the first month at a low enough fee, getting rid of trials would work. It wouldn't stop alt-recycling though, even though it's an exploit, it still happens a lot.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Jeff K Originally by: Shintai We simply just need the insurance on Concord kills removed. Highsec ganking is like PvP where you wait for the target and you choose without the target can preapre against you. And with no or a very small cost for a very high reward. The trial accounts also needs to be nerfed. But thats mainly due to all the spammers and other things. oh god, you fail so badly Ye sure. Troll on alt wsannabee Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Jeff K Originally by: Shintai We simply just need the insurance on Concord kills removed. Highsec ganking is like PvP where you wait for the target and you choose without the target can preapre against you. And with no or a very small cost for a very high reward. The trial accounts also needs to be nerfed. But thats mainly due to all the spammers and other things. oh god, you fail so badly I concur.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Burnharder Lets see now, I don't get a trial account on Team Fortress or Half-Life 2 to try it out and they are considerably more expensive. They arn't MMOs either and I would disagree on Price, considering The Orange Box consists of FIVE games and is $20 cheaper than COD4. Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:42:00 - [34] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Burnharder Lets see now, I don't get a trial account on Team Fortress or Half-Life 2 to try it out and they are considerably more expensive. They arn't MMOs either and I would disagree on Price, considering The Orange Box consists of FIVE games and is $20 cheaper than COD4. Right now that might be so. I bought the Orange box on the day of release and it was much more expensive then I can tell you. Only CCP know how many trial accounts actually convert to real $ at the end of the day (and for marketing reasons are unlikely to tell us).
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:09:00 - [35] Originally by: Burnharder Originally by: Rawr Cristina They arn't MMOs either and I would disagree on Price, considering The Orange Box consists of FIVE games and is $20 cheaper than COD4. Right now that might be so. I bought the Orange box on the day of release and it was much more expensive then I can tell you. Prices haven't changed. Orange box is the same price now as it was on release - $49.95 ($44.99 if you pre-ordered) COD4 is still going for $69.95... Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:30:00 - [36] I saw these guys this morning. The penalty for suiciding is sec loss and kill rights. Using these disposable alts they are negating both.
Poreuomai Minmatar Naval Protection Corp	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:34:00 - [37] Originally by: Ne0 MaTrIx CCP could stop this and isk spammers by removing trial accounts ! :) Without trial accounts I would never have tried EVE.
Ne0 MaTrIx The Kovert Kollection Krew	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Big Al I saw these guys this morning. The penalty for suiciding is sec loss and kill rights. Using these disposable alts they are negating both. Summed up perfectly, thanks. (added to original post) ---
Just inkase	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:28:00 - [39] Trial accounts are a proven method of getting players into the game. I joined less than a month ago and I'd have NEVER payed for this game without having tried it first. I was able to try it, liked it, now they get my 15Ç every month. Easy. What they should do: -Prevent trial accounts from being able to cut and paste into channel chatboxes. Prevent them from posting links, or even prevent them from joining channels at all, and let newbies (like me, LOL) do without the rookie channel for the first 15 days (guides and FAQs FTW). -Prevent IPs from creating more than a fixed number of trial accounts (auto IP-ban automatically from the Xth on). -Make trial accounts unable to contravent Concord rules. No PvP in High Security (unable to target other players within Concord's influence), no jetcan flipping. Trials are there to give a taste of the game. Same as in WoW, they have too many rights and spammers / exploiters use it to their advantage. They're necessary and useful, but there should be restricted activities to Trial account pilots.
Rabbitgod Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2008.02.28 16:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Just be thankful Kestrals can no longer launch Cruise missiles I miss the days of cruise kessies and AOE damage torps, anyone remember mines?
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.28 16:35:00 - [41] Simple fix, don't let trial accounts leave 1.0 systems.
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 16:36:00 - [42] simple fix: stop whining about being killed in a pvp game
wammeh II	Posted - 2008.02.28 16:51:00 - [43] Might help a bit if you couldn't sign up more than 1 trial account per email addy? And perhaps have a randomized password initially sent via email, forcing user to change it via account settings.
DOC PIC	Posted - 2008.02.28 17:04:00 - [44] Originally by: MotherMoon please think about what removing trial accounts would do. And what would it do???? I would like to see how many "trials" actually become full accts.. my guess the % is quite small.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.28 17:09:00 - [45] I would never get rid of Trial Accounts... but I could see not allowing trial accounts to change the warning settings... limited trial accounts as it were... limit them to not being able to shoot if it would trigger Concord... I would also like to see the rules enforced... if Recycling Alts is an exploit and someone does it, ban them... if using a macro is a bannable offense, Ban them... and do it Every time they are caught. I would also like to see Concord show up as close to instantly as possible if they are showing up to administer justice to a member of an NPC Corp... No insurance pay out if Concord destroys the ship... and as another player (in game last night) said, no insurance pay out if globally flagged (As I understand this, it's low-sec, you shoot first)... --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
SirxAmoc	Posted - 2008.02.28 18:41:00 - [46] IMO I think alot of players are missing a big point. EVE and I know this is a shock for some is only a game. CCP just recently made the game avaialble to MAC OS and LINUX systems. Plus as time goes on EVE picks up more playres that watch us fanatics play. The down side to what Goons are doing is they could drive new EVE players away from the game. To some I know theey will say good! Too many on the system, but from a capitalist stand point, If I can't make my stockholders see a steady rise in revenue or at least a maintaining of players, then why should I spend the resources MONEY not ISK into EVE. Their has to be a balance and Goons are breaking that balance. This game has a high learning curve initialy to play. I tried the first time in 2005 to play and got frustrated the 3rd time I got podded and didn't know why I quit before I subscribed to the game. It was only through another friend that took the time to help me understand the mechanics of the game did I catch the bug. EVE has been designed with 3 levels. Carebear Space, 0.0, and the buffer in the middle lo-sec. These level were put inplace to allow players to mature and be able learn and grow. If the balance is broken, then players that play for the entertainment of just accomplishing missions and mining will go the way of WOW or we could see a set up like WOW were we will a Server just for carebears. I can't see EVE lasting too long after that. CCP I feel may have to make a very hard precident. Either tweek the program that if a violation is made in hi-sec the offender is immediately scrammed until the cavalry arrives or and this would be something to see, anyone who is the Goon Alliance will be banned from Hi-Sec and those in Hi-Sec will be open season for all players. This would stay in effect for 72 hrs and would reinitiate if more than X players from the same alliance break the rules of engagement in Empire. Again, some are trying to dictate to masses that you either play the way I want now or get ganked. Do any of you really think that CCP will not adjust the mechanics of the game to correct this. Why do you think they made a pure safe haven for players that first start? Again it goes back to real Euro's or Dollars, some players will not tollerate the stress of getting ganked, they will just quit and go to WOW. Personally I would rather my sister work in a *** house than play WOW. What CCP needs to do is make EVE space bigger with more 0.0. You see what is going to happen is the copy cats now will kick in. The suiciding in empire will escallate to the point that CCP will drop game change that some or all will go "awe crap"! Can someone tell me what thrill they get when when they kill a neutral miner or hauler? IS this the same mental **s that like to pour drinks on mentally challenged kids? Same guys that would get their ass kicked if they had the balls to say something to someones face instead of talking behind their back? The same no-nuts that can only talk about having sex vs actaully be able to have sex? Yea those guys. I have no problem killing a hulk if it is a bonified war target or a neutral that runs into my area of space. But to kill a miner in .9 or .8 space is chicken **! For some we choose to live in the cold vacuum of 0.0 because we have learned to live here and adapt, we chose this, some EVE has players that have not. If the Goons continue to exploit and create CHAOS in empire space this will effect us all in EVE.
Darius Brinn Gallente Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2008.02.28 19:55:00 - [47] Quote: And what would it do???? I would like to see how many "trials" actually become full accts.. my guess the % is quite small Well, let's see things like this: I joined thanks to the trial. That's 15Ç per month. I doubt anybody left because they were suicided ganked. That's 0Ç per month. Even if I am the ONLY player that joined thanks to trying the game before paying up, it's still one account more than they'd have otherwise. Don't be silly, please. They CHECK the renewed trials/total trials. And even counting those who make trials only to suicide gank, CCP still offers them. There HAS to be a reason.
Dostillevi	Posted - 2008.02.28 20:13:00 - [48] Edited by: Dostillevi on 28/02/2008 20:15:50 The solution is easy guys. Just make it so trial account users cannot attack player targets in 0.5 or higher. There are already a number of features that are not usable on trial accounts and skills that cannot be trained. The ONLY reason a trial account user would attack an enemy in highsec is for the explicit purpose of suicide ganking, so you're not hurting their in game experience in any other way. If they want to try out PVP they can go to lowsec just like everyone else. edit for clarification: The trial account user could of course defend themselves in highsec. If they wanted to flip a can and the owner aggressed, they would be free to "defend" themselves.
DeathAndTaxxes Gallente Alliance Tactical Research Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.28 21:52:00 - [49] Originally by: Dostillevi Edited by: Dostillevi on 28/02/2008 20:17:01 Edited by: Dostillevi on 28/02/2008 20:15:50 The solution is easy guys. Just make it so trial account users cannot attack player targets in 0.5 or higher. There are already a number of features that are not usable on trial accounts and skills that cannot be trained. The ONLY reason a trial account user would attack a player in highsec is for the explicit purpose of suicide ganking, so you're not hurting their in game experience in any other way. If they want to try out PVP they can go to lowsec just like everyone else. edit for clarification: The trial account user could of course defend themselves in highsec. If they wanted to flip a can and the owner aggressed, they would be free to "defend" themselves. +1. Very simple to implement also right now. Currently anytime you are about to do anything that would cause a concaord response you get a warning box to continue/cancel. For trial accounts that warning box would only have option to cancel. It would also explain that they can do this once they upgrade to a paying account. Could be implemented with a very tiny amount of code. psuedo code if(accountType == trial) //display cancel only box else //display normal (Continue or cancel) warning box
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.28 22:16:00 - [50] Originally by: DeathAndTaxxes Originally by: Dostillevi Edited by: Dostillevi on 28/02/2008 20:17:01 Edited by: Dostillevi on 28/02/2008 20:15:50 The solution is easy guys. Just make it so trial account users cannot attack player targets in 0.5 or higher. There are already a number of features that are not usable on trial accounts and skills that cannot be trained. The ONLY reason a trial account user would attack a player in highsec is for the explicit purpose of suicide ganking, so you're not hurting their in game experience in any other way. If they want to try out PVP they can go to lowsec just like everyone else. edit for clarification: The trial account user could of course defend themselves in highsec. If they wanted to flip a can and the owner aggressed, they would be free to "defend" themselves. +1. Very simple to implement also right now. Currently anytime you are about to do anything that would cause a concaord response you get a warning box to continue/cancel. For trial accounts that warning box would only have option to cancel. It would also explain that they can do this once they upgrade to a paying account. Could be implemented with a very tiny amount of code. psuedo code if(accountType == trial) //display cancel only box else //display normal (Continue or cancel) warning box your Psuedo code forgot to include the code to remove the "Don't ask again" check box (or at least disable it) --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Balsak Minmatar Es and Whizz	Posted - 2008.02.28 22:24:00 - [51] @SirxAmoc Wow, thats a whole lot of words without actually saying anything of substance at all. I will pick out a couple of specific things you said and respond however First: "Why do you think they made a pure safe haven for players that first start?" There is no safe haven as you like to put it. High sec space is not safe space, it is merely safer. I wonder how many times this fact has to be beat into noobs skulls before they get this. Second: "Can someone tell me what thrill they get when when they kill a neutral miner or hauler?" Who says they are only after a thrill ? You ever stop to think that they have other reasons such as driving up the cost of mining ships, ice, or pos supplys ? Instead you just resort to calling them bullies and other names. Third: "CCP I feel may have to make a very hard precident. Either tweek the program that if a violation is made in hi-sec the offender is immediately scrammed until the cavalry arrives or and this would be something to see, anyone who is the Goon Alliance will be banned from Hi-Sec and those in Hi-Sec will be open season for all players. This would stay in effect for 72 hrs and would reinitiate if more than X players from the same alliance break the rules of engagement in Empire." So basically you are asking that high sec space be made into totally safe space and that Goons should suffer some penalty for playing the game well within allowed limits. They are already suffering the penalty for suicide ganking as it is with security status loss and ship loss. It may not cost them much but it is something. Learn how to setup a decent tank on your ship to live long enough for Concord to show up or get some logistics ships to help out. God forbid you actually have to think. Fourth and last: "Again, some are trying to dictate to masses that you either play the way I want now or get ganked." Some are trying to dictate to CCP how to make their own game. I really hope CCP doesn't listen to people like you and make high sec space a gank free zone. It would destroy the games economy in a very short time. If they did make high sec space a truly safe space then they will have to severely nerf mining and mission running to compensate. I wonder how many people will cry when level 3 and 4 agents get moved to low sec space ? Now having said all that the only thing that does need a bit of a tweak at all and has been suggested already is that anyone killed by concord should not get insurance payouts on their ships. Nothing else needs to be changed whatsoever.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Noir.	Posted - 2008.02.28 22:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Ne0 MaTrIx Edited by: Ne0 MaTrIx on 28/02/2008 06:28:03 Originally by: MotherMoon please think about what removing trial accounts would do. No ISK spammed local... No ISK spammed trade channels... No trial account suiciders... No new players... Fixed it for ya. ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.28 23:14:00 - [53] Originally by: DOC PIC Originally by: MotherMoon please think about what removing trial accounts would do. And what would it do???? I would like to see how many "trials" actually become full accts.. my guess the % is quite small. So? It dosen't matter what the % is, what matters is that more new people activate full accts after playing the trial than those who activate out the blue. Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Ne0 MaTrIx The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:45:00 - [54] still at it... sigh ---
Plentimon	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:51:00 - [55] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: Marcus TheMartin prevent npc corp pilots from being able to shoot people in highsec Creating a corp is cheap and getting all those alts in would take not more then a few minutes. You need sleep. I really hope you need sleep. PC corps can be war decced though, which means the gankers might actually lose something of value, and that doesn't really fit into their idea of what PVP is.
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin prevent npc corp pilots from being able to shoot people in highsec lolmoron? ____________________________________________ Originally by: Thargat They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
Korotani Caldari Darkwater Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Dostillevi Edited by: Dostillevi on 28/02/2008 20:17:01 Edited by: Dostillevi on 28/02/2008 20:15:50 The solution is easy guys. Just make it so trial account users cannot attack player targets in 0.5 or higher. There are already a number of features that are not usable on trial accounts and skills that cannot be trained. The ONLY reason a trial account user would attack a player in highsec is for the explicit purpose of suicide ganking, so you're not hurting their in game experience in any other way. If they want to try out PVP they can go to lowsec just like everyone else. edit for clarification: The trial account user could of course defend themselves in highsec. If they wanted to flip a can and the owner aggressed, they would be free to "defend" themselves. I'm up for that. Nice, quick and easy!
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 28/02/2008 12:06:41 Originally by: Granmethedon III Quote: I'd report your employer minimum wahe is ú4.50/hr In the UK. And only if you're over a certain age. Lot of people who play Eve that match neither of those criteria.... Thought it was ú5.50/hr to anyone over 18? I make ú17 an hour if anyone cares... PR PR :)
Gravecall	Posted - 2008.03.04 09:28:00 - [59] Originally by: Just inkase -Prevent IPs from creating more than a fixed number of trial accounts (auto IP-ban automatically from the Xth on). Good suggestion but unfortunately some ISPs don't give static IPs to their customers (each time you access the network you're issued a different IP). Originally by: Just inkase -Make trial accounts unable to contravent Concord rules. No PvP in High Security (unable to target other players within Concord's influence), no jetcan flipping. Sounds reasonable, would need to make it clear to them that they can engage in PVP by going to low sec though.
Darius Brinn Gallente Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2008.03.04 10:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Gravecall Originally by: Just inkase -Prevent IPs from creating more than a fixed number of trial accounts (auto IP-ban automatically from the Xth on). Good suggestion but unfortunately some ISPs don't give static IPs to their customers (each time you access the network you're issued a different IP). Still, it would remove part of the problem. Originally by: Just inkase -Make trial accounts unable to contravent Concord rules. No PvP in High Security (unable to target other players within Concord's influence), no jetcan flipping. Sounds reasonable, would need to make it clear to them that they can engage in PVP by going to low sec though. Yep. Still, something has to be done. I am all for suicide ganking, and I am an Empire miner who has never shot down another player. It's just the way EVE is: harsh, and difficult. However, using alts to get rid of the consequences, is NOT the game mechanics. It's an out-of-game exploit, and should be prevented. Pirates and related scum always cry "0.0 at your own risk, blah blah, take the consequences, carebear", but then they refuse to do the same.
Bohoba Caldari dragons nest imPure.	Posted - 2008.03.04 10:23:00 - [61] Originally by: MotherMoon please think about what removing trial accounts would do. Nothing also remove GTC will solve a lot of problems Windows VistaÖ Ultimate x64-based PC Gigabyte X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 Memory 4,093.69 MB 2X Crossfire ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.04 10:59:00 - [62] Originally by: Balsak So basically you are asking that high sec space be made into totally safe space and that Goons should suffer some penalty for playing the game well within allowed limits. They are already suffering the penalty for suicide ganking as it is with security status loss and ship loss. Did you read the OP? This isn't about the goons suicide jihad against exhumers, this is about trial account abuse to evade the normal penalties for suicide ganking. Alt abuse to evade the normal consequences for suicide ganking has already been deemed an exploit by CCP, because it negates that very security hit that you mentioned. These trialers just work around CCP's means to act against this loophole. So where exactly are these kestrels with the random keystroke names playing well within allowed limits? On a more constructive note, +1 to the suggestion to prevent free trialers from performing a criminal action in high sec(any action that would result in a concordokken). In fact, preventing a real newbie from invoking the wrath of CONCORD by accidentally repairing a rat or shooting a neutral object should even lower the frustration rate for true newbies a little. A win/win situation. If they want to pew pew, they can go to low sec, use can baiting or just pay the bill.
Ladyah Liandri Silver Eagles Imperium Aeternum	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:55:00 - [63] Originally by: Bohoba Nothing also remove GTC will solve a lot of problems ... and will create problems for those who can't afford playing EVE with real money.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 28/02/2008 12:06:41 Originally by: Granmethedon III Quote: I'd report your employer minimum wahe is ú4.50/hr In the UK. And only if you're over a certain age. Lot of people who play Eve that match neither of those criteria.... Thought it was ú5.50/hr to anyone over 18? Average monthly wage where I live is about 420-ish pounds per month. Minimum is like 200ish. Prices of most goods, are, of course, lower as well. Not everyone lives in the UK. That said, when I started out, I paid for a regular account upfront, but I can understand that some people won't pay 15 euros to test a game, and while validating wether a player has a credit card is fine, trials do need to stay. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint

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