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Sareem
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.29 12:31:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I've been so far an amarr and gallente ship pilot. As would be predictable, i've never used shield tanking.
I'd like some advice on what you would consider a good skill training path for shield tanking.
I'm aiming at piloting something caldari such as a drake or a ferox and later a raven so i'd figure that shields should be good at medium size. I'd leave large shields for the time when i'd be confortable enough to fly a raven.
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Jameroz
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.02.29 14:31:00 -
[2]
Here are the skills needed for the tech2 shield tank mods:
Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 for active hardeners Shield Operation 4 for large shield booster, 5 for x-large Shield Management 5 for shield boost amplifier Shield Upgrades 4 for extenders, passive hardeners, Energy Grid Upgrades 4 for power relay, flux coil, power diagnostics system
You want definately to train Shield Management as it boosts your shield amount, Shield Compensation as it reduces booster cap usage and Shield Operation reduces recharge time.
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Goldis
Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.29 15:35:00 -
[3]
Both the drake and the ferox can field far better passive tanks than active ones. Which means, you rather depend on passive shield recharge to maintain your shield, rather than shield boosting.
This has a severe impact on skills, cause several skills that are needed for active tanking (see: Raven(tm)) are not needed for them.
So basic skills will be: Shield upgrades IV (large shield extenders II), Tactical shield manipulation IV (T2 active hardeners/invuls), energy grid upgrades IV (t2 pdu's and spr's), and jury rigging III -> Shield rigging I (Core defense field purgers). Shield op and shield management will also help.
However, to field any sort of active tank, you will need at least lvl IV in energy management and energy systems operation, in adition to the rest of the shield skills.
Skip thermic/kinetic/em/explosive shield compensations though, they r completely useless. ----
De Gustibus et Coloribus non disputandum est.
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Elsism
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Posted - 2008.02.29 18:35:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Goldis Skip thermic/kinetic/em/explosive shield compensations though, they r completely useless.
They are not completely useless at all. While they should not be at the top of your skilling priorities, anyone that uses shield resistance amps will agree that they have some use. Even active hardeners will benefit from the skills when they aren't turned on for whatever reason.
Hope this helps.
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Yargo Metash
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.29 21:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Elsism They are not completely useless at all. While they should not be at the top of your skilling priorities, anyone that uses shield resistance amps will agree that they have some use. Even active hardeners will benefit from the skills when they aren't turned on for whatever reason.
Hope this helps.
They're not as good as their armor counterparts due to shield tanking being a bit more reliant on active hardeners than passive, but there's no reason to abandon them. Heck, on a drake they're king. And getting them up to three doesn't take a lot of time.
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Duncan Storne
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Posted - 2008.03.02 22:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Duncan Storne on 02/03/2008 22:28:06 If you are using active hardeners, the shield compensation skills are a waste of time. A small bonus when you turn off the hardeners is not going to help you much.
If you are using passive hardeners, the shield compensation skills help a lot. The thing is, you need to train them high and use high-end passive hardeners to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, you should be using active hardeners.
If you are flying a Ferox or Drake with a passive tank, you will have ample cap to run active hardeners.
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Goldis
Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.02 23:38:00 -
[7]
Right.
Lemme put it this way. Imagine armor compensation skills, then remove eanm's from the equation, and thats what you get.
Setups that involve passive shield hardeners go like "well, if hell freezes over and I have them then.." which is moot imo.
Numbers:
It would take no less than a pithum a-type (that's top deadspace) amplifier, PLUS relevant compensation skill to lvl V to match a plain tech 2 active field. ----
De Gustibus et Coloribus non disputandum est.
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Little Matt
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Posted - 2008.03.03 03:33:00 -
[8]
Goldis, you're correct. To a point.
Try running an active tank when you've been NOS'd or Neut'd to 0. I found and ran a complex in 0.0 and had a pair of Neut towers zap me to 0 in about 2 seconds. The only thing that had me survive the swarm of rats was my passive tank.
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Gwendion
Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.03.03 05:08:00 -
[9]
It all depends on what your up against and your own personal preferences. The passive resists are just that, passive. They also use no cap, which can be good against heavy neut/nos in PvP. I have on many occasions, when I knew I was going against a Neut heavy group, bait in a Passive Resist Passive Tank Drake. While the actives ARE better, a simple curse will neutralize more than 1/2 your tank in mere seconds if you use actives, and in something like a Drake with SPRs, well, your screwed at that point. (You are if you use a drake anyhow, but thats for another discussion =)
I never went past 4 in my shield comps, I may one day when I finally get into caps (when It makes sense to use high end modules to make them good, Im not rich =) )
to answer the OP: All of them 4 at least, 5 when you get time. Though with both chars one has Tactical at 1, and the other at 5.. im split on the idea. (as 1 will allow Invulns, but still allow passthrough giving you SOME extra buffer when your shields begin to fail, which has saved that char a couple of times.. though I think the +5% resists would well than make up for the armor bleed.. eh..)
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Goldis
Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.03 05:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Goldis on 03/03/2008 05:57:54 As I said, if when hell freezes over in a 0.0 complex which happens to have neut towers, and you would run solo in a drake/nh nevertheless, and not taking into account that an invulnerability field coupled with an injector would offer better resistances and the ability to heat, or a pvp situation in which you know the hostiles to be heavy on neuts before ever undocking in a bait ship, in which of course an injector/invul is again out of the question for some obscure reason, THEN they're worth the 1.5 monts of training. Sorta.
Anyway I'm done with this thread. ----
De Gustibus et Coloribus non disputandum est.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.03 09:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Goldis Edited by: Goldis on 03/03/2008 05:57:54 As I said, if when hell freezes over in a 0.0 complex which happens to have neut towers, and you would run solo in a drake/nh nevertheless, and not taking into account that an invulnerability field coupled with an injector would offer better resistances and the ability to heat, or a pvp situation in which you know the hostiles to be heavy on neuts before ever undocking in a bait ship, in which of course an injector/invul is again out of the question for some obscure reason, THEN they're worth the 1.5 monts of training. Sorta.
Anyway I'm done with this thread.
I pretty much agree with this.
If you've built your setup around active hardeners then being NOS'd/Neut'd spells the death of your ship anyway, unless you weren't scrambled in which case you would just warp away anyway.
What we're really talking about here is the difference between perhaps dipping into armour with no compensation skills, but even then I don't think they're worth the time unless you absolutely haven't got much else to train. The times I've lost my active hardeners through NOS/Neut (on an otherwise passive Drake) my shield has either vanished so fast afterwards to make a token 3-5% academic, or I've had enough time to see it coming and take appropriate steps.
I don't think anyone with an active setup is going to be relying on the 3-5% you get while the modules are offline to hang around to finish off battleships etc are they.
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