Originally by: Elo Knight

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which one is the red pill

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Originally by: Dhip C

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Some are meant to lead and some are meant to follow. Either STFU and lead or STFU and follow. The choice is ultimately yours.

My question is whats is Veto's agenda by posting such crap in CAOD. Personally, I think you need to take a break from forums.

2/10 on the mittani thread scale.

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Originally by: kublai

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Originally by: Fred0

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This is probably true for some corps but it depends and it'd be very wrong to generalize like that.

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It's generally true for such alliances as DMC, KOS.

But really, that should be common knowledge, and the victim of this does not really read CAOD.

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Originally by: Vagablonde

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Edited by: Vagablonde on 01/03/2008 10:33:12
I dunno rotb, but your sig (the patton quote) i think goes someway to explain the nature of eve, especially concerning space holding alliances in that some people will dedicate very large amounts of their time, and in that time be vry srs, to forging alliances, creating :politics:, along with the hulking endevour of logistics, whilst the majority of people just want to ride bikes, so they follow, there is no room for people who are not leading or following and simply put a good alliance leader, or the like, deserves to be the one in the biggest ship, etc, he/she is afterall one of the writers of the game people decide to immerse themselves in and go along with /longsentence. Whilst having a large ego isn't always a bad thing is does have the effect of magnifying a persons character and all the crap that comes with them, and people with large egos naturally seek authority, titles, status, etc...

not really sure what i'm trying to say

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Originally by: Keeves

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This is such a bull**** topic. Has your CEO ever told you "OK guys, this is what Veto is doing this next X amount of days/weeks" and you just went and did it because you trusted your CEO? This is such a tinfoil cap conspiracy bull**** thread which makes you think that every 0.0 alliance CEO is pocketing isk made from their corp members.


What about the CEO who spent the countless hours delegating and organising to make this Alliance machine work properly and is still flying a T1 cruiser because he doesnt have the time to go out and pvp or rat or make isk in general? I for one am in that position (even in a generally small corp) and im sure there are many CEO's like me, even in large 0.0 alliances, who are in the very same position...

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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LOL - what a funny thread.

If you are not happy with your alliance then leave it. If you ask your alliance leadership questions and you don't get satisfying answers then leave the alliance.

If you think all alliance leaders are bad and that they would treat you all badly - well, make your own alliance and become a leader yourself.

You can't? No time? Bored with all the necessary stuff? There you are.

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Originally by: Dylan Rhade

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Posting ina RotB thread\o/

Lo Bone, hows life m8?

D

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Originally by: DrDevice

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I think i can translate:

Rise up in revolution against the oppressors of nations!
Rise up against those who would take the sweat from your brow!
Rise up with pitchforks and Torches.

Viva la revolution

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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anyone who is in a corp in an alliance, chose to be there, if you dont wanna be there and want to

buy tech 2 from the marker instead of your boss's alt?

do level 4 missions?

not be 60 jumps away at 4a.m on thursday?

then go back to empire and join VETO.

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Originally by: Skrypt

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Fact. Agmar is the richest CEO in EVE. His exploitations of GAME are flawless.

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Originally by: Hymerus

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The majority of Alliances fall into this category.

The average player just simple doesn't understand how much isk is generated off moon mining towers at the alliance level. Most corp CEOs don't even really get it.

People keep going on about the war in the south being about BoB being jerks. It's not. It's about controlling moons and making isk hand over fist by holding the moon mining rights to half of Eve.

All the reasons that get thrown around here are crap. It's not about freedom, it's not about fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here, it's not about a new world order, it's about the Eve equivalent of oil.

And 99.999% of the people who are losing battleship after battleship out there will never see a single isk in benefit out of it. Sure, they'll get to mine in their covetors or rat, but its a pittance to what their alliance leaders will be making off their work.

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Originally by: Erotic Irony

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so should I fly stealth bombers or not

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Originally by: Tobias Sjodin

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Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 01/03/2008 18:38:35
Dude, everyone is free to leave. If they're as suspicious as you are, they will likely already have done so. If you're trying to "enlighten" all allliances in this game by this post, then alright. Most of them probably realize that there's a difference between player investments and alliance investments. You know things like fueling towers for an entire region? Buying and producing capital BPO:s, or capitals themselves. Replacing losses, et cetera.

You think that asking a question is going to undermine the alliances of this game or something? Lawl. Geesh Verone, when did you start recruiting such paranoid people. "OH NO! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!11 MAYBE MY CeO is taking my 10% of my ratting profits for his own beneFIts!?"

Sheesh.

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Originally by: Gjs312

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Edited by: Gjs312 on 01/03/2008 21:51:21
Lets just say I expect this post to bring Angel's thousandare lifestyle of multiple amutee prostitutes and ebayed cars as pimp as this one Linkage to a screetching halt. Thank you for freeing our minds kind sir.

Also, what happens if I take both the pills?

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Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg

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Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 01/03/2008 22:21:23
I wish I could have read this post earlier, but I was too busy EBaying Isk.

Also, the OP is amazing. Yes, we just high five eachother after killing dysp moons and all the other corporations in our alliances don't actually want to know who gets it and where the money goes. Then we go on and keep the money and encourage people to rat for their BS instead of giving them free and fitted ones, because we don't really need 100% participation anyway. And since territory and moons isn't taken with Dreads, Carriers, MS and titans we don't buy any of those wholesale either and give them right back to members.

You sir are a genius and would make a killing in alliance warfare.

Edited to capture all the genius.

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Originally by: Righteous Fury

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Someone let you into Veto? Verone's standards must seriously be slipping.

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Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg

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Good stuff

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Originally by: Lighthugger

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Something politics related?

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Originally by: Dramaticus

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Cute Goon comment containing OOG reference I am not aware of nor do I care about

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Originally by: xeom

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Besides who do you think makes more money in a real life corporation? Who do you think does most of the work?

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Originally by: bow locks

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lol. Bone - shoot things in game mate!

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Originally by: Dai Nau

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I used to like to charge people 200m to join goonfleet but then Sesfan said he'd cut anyone's balls off who did it again

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Originally by: NAFnist

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This one time, in fleetops, ET like totally yelled at me because I was being noob, and like, I then totally listened and didnt die

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Originally by: SamuraiJack

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oh additional. Gotta say that pirates maybe were the better profession. All you have to worry about is concord and gateguns. Most of the decent pirate corps have the honor to keep their word. Pirating and ransoming and not holding your word just makes things difficult.

Mebbe i need a alt. :-/

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Originally by: Jonis Sinmaker

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Straightforward answer

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Originally by: Slinger Salvo

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Questions for the OP:

1) Although I agree that the average 0.0 dweller is completely ignorant of certain aspects of how 0.0 alliances operate/make vast amounts of ISK from daily operations for a few select people at the top... how on earth could you think that this was something worth bringing up in CAOD considering that a) lots of alliance members are just there to play the game and have no desire to engage in running a 0.0 empire, and b) the structure of these alliances are, like everything else in life, geared to reward those who control and direct the enterprise?

2) As I recall, the CEO of Veto (Verone) is widely rumored to have one of the fattest personal wallets in EVE: somewhere in the neighbourhood of around 100b+ ISK. That's a lot of walking-around money for one man... so if low sec pirate corps (or even empire-based corps) were any less corrupt and focused on rewarding those at the top of the heirarchy... why does the average Veto pirate struggle to turn a profit from ransoms while the fat cats at the top live large and casually chat about maybe buying a Veto titan some day and tooling around the universe in it?

Face it m8... if anyone in your corp was gonna drive the big station wagon, it would be your boss... just like my boss at work drives the 2008 Caddy while I'm stuck with the used BMW from 1994.

Silly topic really. It's like bringing up a taboo subject that isn't really taboo because people talk about this kind of thing every day. It came as no surprise to me when I saw a BoB director auctioning off Serenity Steele around a year ago, even though the ISS routinely complained about BoB fleets coming the Marginis area, picking fights with the ISSN and generally disrupting business.

I'll take the pink pill with the skull stamp on it, thanks much.

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Originally by: Morris Falter

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For groups and individuals who have already decided to live in 0.0, empire is a bizarre and seemingly different game to the one we play. We are forced, through the ******** sovereignty system, to be in alliance if we wish to secure space. We are forced, through the manipulation of individuals to play a metagame based on shifting powerblocs, which the servers are unable to support in any meaningful or satisfactory way. This means, very long time investments for little in meaningful game experiences, once you've got past the initial excitement in being in a 500+ local engagement (if it holds).

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Treading on dangerous ground-encouraging revolution everywhere . And taking the red pill of course.

Originally by: Slinger Salvo

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So... Verone being both the richest member of Veto and the CEO has nothing to do with the fact that he has a well-respected and well-trained fighting force that will follow any deployment or combat command he issues and provide US with a framework for FUN FUN FUN .

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Originally by: Fitz Chivalry

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However, this only applies to smaller alliance and corps I can imagine in the really large ones, epsecially those with loads of farmers in them, the leadership must cream off stupid amounts of isk.

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Originally by: Slinger Salvo

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So... Alliance Leader X has a possibly well-respected and possibly well-trained BLOB that will follow any deployment or combat command he issues NO MATTER HOW SILLY OR POORLY LED to provide X Alliance Members with a framework for LAG LAG LAG while at the same time enriching himself and cronies from the sweat of thier brow and demanding continual scut work equal to mopping floors in McDonalds

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Originally by: Embrace MyHate

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The belter working man

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Originally by: Stela'Artois

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The working gal (?) speaks....but....

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Originally by: Orree

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I suppose it's entirely possible that there are those alliances out there for which these allegations might be true.

With regard to those alliances I'm familiar with, I would say very little of what is quoted in the OP is true. Alliance leaders flying titans are most likely doing it on their own dime or as part of the active and open cooperation of various pilots (or corps) within an alliance. The idea that is generally true that alliance leaders get rich off the back of rank-and-file pilots is simply preposterous, in my view. If it were as bad as the quoted "information" would have you believe, I can't imagine anyone would bother to join an alliance.

For alliances with which I am familiar, "moon mining" helps pay the the overhead of holding sovereignty, but not much else. It, of course, depends upon how rich in moons an alliance's region is.

Refine taxes? I don't know for sure about other alliances, but in RAWR, the only ones refining in our space are RAWR pilots and there is a very small refine tax which can be lifted completely upon request and the availability of a director from the owning corp of the refining station.

In my experience, alliance leaders are often spending their own ISK for the betterment of their alliance, not getting rich off their alliance mates.

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Originally by: Stela'Artois

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Working girl speaks well.

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Originally by: Sakura Nihil

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Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 05/03/2008 07:30:21

If a leader is abusive, exploitative, and the like, its up to them to either change it or leave.

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Originally by: Taz Devlin

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Originally by: RuleoftheBone

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Originally by: Sakura Nihil

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Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 05/03/2008 07:30:21

If a leader is abusive, exploitative, and the like, its up to them to either change it or leave.

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And there lies part of the problem. How would the average joe even be aware without even knowing what questions to ask...or what to look for. Which of course leads to breaking the herd mentality depriving the elite leeches of their means of control.

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I'm not entirely sure what your agenda is, but I'm pretty sure it does not contain genuine concern for the average 0.0 dweller.

I've been in 0.0 for 4 years now and I can honestly say that you are talking out of your ass and making asinine presumptions here.

The Isk goes to supply tools for the trade mate.

When you understand the trade, then ask relevant questions. Untill then, study.

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