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Zekelle
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:20:00 -
[1]
During my time in EVE I've begun to notice interesting facts like how 90% of corps have high caldari standing, and everyone cross-trains caldari or has a caldari mission alt. It took me a little time to figure out why these things are true. Why does everyone go caldari? All the races have interesting back-stories and good-looking ships and yet 60+% of EVE's population is caldari. The reason is because caldari are easy-mode and unfairly so. If I pick the easiest race to play, shouldn't I be weakest in the end? But thats not the case, caldari are strong end-game.
I expect balance in a system with races that have been created to have specific differences and are in conflict with eachother. I'm not seeing that balance here. Let's compare
Amarr; Good armor tanking. Pretty easy to train
Gallente; Good solo-ability. Good tank. Above average training difficulty, Good at pve and great in pvp
Minmatar; hardest to train(have to train everything), hardest to learn, good tank (if trained), great damage but only if at right range
Caldari; Good shield tank. Awesome mission runner. Great damage at any range, easy to learn, easy to train, good in pvp
The difference between caldari and minmatar is most noticeable. Why do caldari have the fewest skills to train to be effective and are more effective than minmatar?
Turrets have the penalty of 'gotta-be-at-right-range'. Missiles do compareable damage at any range. Missiles need a unique penalty, and defender missiles ARE NOT IT.
-Zeke
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Orgos Khenn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:23:00 -
[2]
I guess because everything can't always be equal. Maybe CCP are running the game closer to real military hardware design than a "game balance" system, in certain ways. We can't debate that Israel builds better tanks than, say, Iran, for example. It's a given fact. Same applies, maybe?
I'll confess to being guilty of Caldari cross-training, but that's cos I didn't want to fly only Minnie/ORE ships, Gallente look like a nightmare breeding between Jean-Paul Gautier and HR Giger, and Amarr is...yeah.
----
One day...one day General will be worth reading.
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Concordokken Plox
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:23:00 -
[3]
BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
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Pantaloon McPants
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:24:00 -
[4]
because eve is a pve game and caldari smack dat ass at pve. 78% of eve residents agree.
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Orgos Khenn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:25:00 -
[5]
I forgot to put out the troll traps.
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One day...one day General will be worth reading.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:25:00 -
[6]
People go Caldari because they understand the idea of shield tanking. Letting your shield drop and soaking up the damage with armour resists and repairers isn't something that comes naturally.
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Anything less is wasted effort |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Cult of Rawr
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:29:00 -
[7]
I would say that Amarr are harder to train for than Gallente, especially after Khanid Mk II.
As for Caldari - well not everyone can be perfect 
Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec! |
Stuart Price
Caldari
Havoc Inc
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:58:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Stuart Price on 02/03/2008 00:59:35
I play Eve on hard-mode:
Low-sec pirate specialising in Caldari turret ships. I must really hate myself.
But damn it's good fun.
I used to run level 3's in a Moa (back in the day). Using a Raven and its missiles for level 4's was almost a betrayal of my playstyle, thank god for the Rokh. Level 4's can be done in it for us turret *****s (until my sec status removed me from high-sec :P) and I just love loading up on blasters and magstabs for pvp.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Ix Forres
Vanguard Frontiers
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:12:00 -
[9]
If CCP loved Caldari the Raven wouldn't look like a pile of ****e.
'nuff said. Caldari ships should look like Crows.
Blog |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:16:00 -
[10]
Op needs to stfu before I spend an insignificant percent of my Caldari mission *****s isk reserves to hire out a few allinaces to pod you no matter where you are. 
 Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review
"if you aren't my friend you are my income."
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:23:00 -
[11]
Caldari suck.
I'm Amarr/Caldari cross trained and i once used caldari to run missions and amarr to pvp. I like shield tanking and i like instant damage and the power of amarr. Now i barely use my caldari part only for some specific ships. Caldari turret ships are fine, but missile ships mostly suck because of their low and delayed damage.
I wouldnt say caldari are the best and strongest race, i wouldnt even start a caldari char.
Missiles have allready a unique penality .. delayed damage.
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Amezyarak
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:30:00 -
[12]
Now, now, let CCP have their fun and biases as well!
Reasons to go Minmatar:
- Great backstory
- Interesting portraits (esp. females)
- Lots of 0.0'ers are Minmatar - you'll feel right at home in null space.
- Native ship: Rupture (one of the best all-out damage dealing cruisers in the game.) Loves to armor-tank.
- Native ship: Muninn. Deserves plenty of respect.
I have a Caldari alt as well, flies a Caracal. *Yawn*
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:34:00 -
[13]
I must confess as an ECM specialist I had to cross train Caldari. If CCPs idea of Minmatar E-War was Dampner bonii instead of targert painting then maybe I wouldn't.
Of course the prime fiction does support the notion that Caldari are extremely advanced in all things warfare related. They are however very boring at dinner parties.
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Mr QUE
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:40:00 -
[14]
Actually CCP hate the Cald race. my main been online for 4 years and they have nerfed the cald race every patch since. Some of it needed most of it not ...:) one day we will regain our glory maybe one day :)
But till then still king of PVE Yarrrrrrrrrr. Well I think Ammar may tie now :)
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:45:00 -
[15]
Nothing from stopping the OP training up Caldari spec ..
Show me one good caldari solo pvp ship, that offers good good DPS, can fit web,point,mwd.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zekelle
Caldari; Good shield tank. Awesome mission runner. Great damage at any range, easy to learn, easy to train, good in pvp
-Zeke
You obviously don't fly caldari yourself, otherwise youd not make this statement. The grass is not greener on caldari's side.
Good shieldtank ? At a cost of pvp modules - and the best tankers in game are armortank, in fact it's always annoying to close that 0% em hole, costs module slots. Those amarrs are really hurting us.
Awesome missionrunner ? Ok, but you can do that with other races too. In the mission-forums someone posted mission completion times in a dominix, and they were shorter than i've seen from pimped cnr runners.
Easy to learn/train = no, it's basically the same sp you need to max a skilltree.
Great damage ? This is your biggest fail. My other char has 12 mil sp in missiles, he has them pretty at maxout, and what does he get on his cruise raven, with 3 damagemods and faction missiles ? Somewhere around 500dps. Wow. Any gallente battelcruiser has more. And torpedo ravens have to many drawbacks, range sucks, it's almost impossible to fit siegelaunchers with an mwd and have damagemods in lowslots etc. Caldaris are probably the weakest damagedealers in the game, how can you say they have good damge. Are you a troll ?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mr QUE
Actually CCP hate the Cald race. my main been online for 4 years and they have nerfed the cald race every patch since.
Check your memory implant. It must be broken.
Massive torp damage boost - check.
ECM boost - check.
Dunno if you refer to PvE, but Caldari is still the easiest choice for PvE, and those boosts surely weren't aimed at killing NPCs.
Originally by: Mr QUE
one day we will regain our glory maybe one day :)
I suppose you mean overpoweredness?
___________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zekelle
During my time in EVE I've begun to notice interesting facts like how 90% of corps have high caldari standing, and everyone cross-trains caldari or has a caldari mission alt. It took me a little time to figure out why these things are true. Why does everyone go caldari? All the races have interesting back-stories and good-looking ships and yet 60+% of EVE's population is caldari. The reason is because caldari are easy-mode and unfairly so. If I pick the easiest race to play, shouldn't I be weakest in the end? But thats not the case, caldari are strong end-game.
I expect balance in a system with races that have been created to have specific differences and are in conflict with eachother. I'm not seeing that balance here. Let's compare
Amarr; Good armor tanking. Pretty easy to train
Gallente; Good solo-ability. Good tank. Above average training difficulty, Good at pve and great in pvp
Minmatar; hardest to train(have to train everything), hardest to learn, good tank (if trained), great damage but only if at right range
Caldari; Good shield tank. Awesome mission runner. Great damage at any range, easy to learn, easy to train, good in pvp
The difference between caldari and minmatar is most noticeable. Why do caldari have the fewest skills to train to be effective and are more effective than minmatar?
Turrets have the penalty of 'gotta-be-at-right-range'. Missiles do compareable damage at any range. Missiles need a unique penalty, and defender missiles ARE NOT IT.
-Zeke
You have that list wrong.
Amarr are probably the most training intensive race atm. As you need capacitor and fitting skills at lv5 before you begin to become effective. Lasers and armor seem pretty strightforward, but to run lasers and armor tank at the same time its a pain in the ass.
Amarr = Eve in hard mode
My Blog |
Wu Jiun
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zekelle
Amarr; Good armor tanking. Pretty easy to train
Not true anymore. If you want to spec for amarr ships you need gunnery, missiles and drones as we have ships of all three sorts. Then armor tanking and cap skills ofc. Don't really see where that is easy to do.
Of course you can start with training only laser ships or only drone ships or only missile ships but well then you can't really call yourself amarr specced.
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Mr QUE
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: Mr QUE
Actually CCP hate the Cald race. my main been online for 4 years and they have nerfed the cald race every patch since.
Check your memory implant. It must be broken.
Massive torp damage boost - check.
ECM boost - check.
Dunno if you refer to PvE, but Caldari is still the easiest choice for PvE, and those boosts surely weren't aimed at killing NPCs.
Originally by: Mr QUE
one day we will regain our glory maybe one day :)
I suppose you mean overpoweredness?
wrong sir no torp damage has been added just rof and then the nerfed it by increasing the exploson rad.. so now even less damage to BS's and shotened the range to laughable level
ECM=chance you might jam you might not and if you don't jam 1st cycle your dead
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Wu Jiun
Originally by: Zekelle
Amarr; Good armor tanking. Pretty easy to train
Not true anymore. If you want to spec for amarr ships you need gunnery, missiles and drones as we have ships of all three sorts. Then armor tanking and cap skills ofc. Don't really see where that is easy to do.
Of course you can start with training only laser ships or only drone ships or only missile ships but well then you can't really call yourself amarr specced.
Isn't that like saying you aren't Caldari specced unless you train for missile ships, gun ships and ECM ships?
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
ECM boost - check.
ECM was overnerfed before it was buffed. And it's special in the sense that you can't just use it to augment your fitting. You have to devote every slot to it, especially Signal Distortion Amps in those precious lowslots that Caldari ships have so few of.
I wouldn't say ECM is not powerful, but the tradeoff is there. You won't catch an ECM ship doing good DPS or having a good tank pretty much ever.
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MenanceWhite
Amarr
Fruit Fellatio
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:06:00 -
[23]
Read race backstories. Caldari has the one that your generic (nerdy nice-guy?) EVE player would prefer.
As for alts, many PVPers do LV4s in empire for (not surpricing, 100% profit no risk unless you're ********). Achtura has best stats for pvpish/missionrunner needed skills, raven/CNR is the best lv4 runner.
Same with the guys who made a miner/industrial/trader main, when they want to try pvp they make an alt, and achtura again has best stats for it.
---
Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:09:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 02/03/2008 02:11:17
Ok, let's get this straight.
He said that CCP "have nerfed the cald race every patch since."
I just proved him wrong.
That's about it.
I was not talking about whether ECM is strong, was strong, is overpowered or not. Get the paranoia out of your head.
It is kinda interesting to see lots of Falcon alts lately, though..
___________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
Mynameistoby
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:14:00 -
[25]
You expect equality yet you live in irl do you not
I'll just quote one of the things the OP told me in game
"Black people are half-ape half-human creatures, devolved from chimpanzees who eat fried chicken, watermelons and collard greens; write songs about raping white women and stealing welfare checks from grandmothers so they can pretend they bought those plastic spinning hubcaps they stole from other ******s to pimp out their stolen 1974 Cadillacs. ******s are lazy, dumb and most of all they smell even after taking a shower. The only thing shorter than a Jew's ***** is a ******'s to-do list."
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Wu Jiun
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Isn't that like saying you aren't Caldari specced unless you train for missile ships, gun ships and ECM ships?
No not really imo. Our drone ships are all ewar ships thats right. Geddon has 125m¦ dronebay and harbinger has 50 though for example. So without good drone skills you are gonna suck even if you don't fly ewar ships.
Point is we have to train drones as much as minmatar at least so if you count them for the minnies you have to count them for amarr too. There is no reason why say a phoon pilot (one of the most skill intensive ships) urgently needs drone skills while a geddon pilot doesnt.
And yes i would say someone who can't use t2 hybrids and t2 missiles is not caldari specced. Sorry if somebody feels offended by that.
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MenanceWhite
Amarr
Fruit Fellatio
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mynameistoby
You're not cool for copy-pasting old crap from encyclopedia dramatica.
---
Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Cult of Rawr
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: F90OEX
Show me one good caldari solo pvp ship, that offers good good DPS, can fit web,point,mwd.
So what you're complaining about is that Caldari arn't Gallente?
I don't get it...
Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec! |
AndrewRyan
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: F90OEX
Nothing from stopping the OP training up Caldari spec ..
Show me one good caldari solo pvp ship, that offers good good DPS, can fit web,point,mwd.
Sacrilege
=========================================
A Man chooses, a slave obeys. |
Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:46:00 -
[30]
Lol. Caldari good in pvp.
Amarr MELT caldari in pvp.
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
What's the difference between an alt poster and a leech?
One is a blood sucking parasite, the other is a leech.
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