| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nightfang
   |
Posted - 2004.04.06 12:15:00 -
[1]
Introduction
With Castor the face of PvP in EVE changed. Whereas the pre-castor PvP was mainly about amassing the greatest amount of battleships at a JIP or at a gate, it's now been dramatically changed to a more multifaceted tactical field. The frigate is now a very viable option and a valuable asset to any fleet, since they have a natural speed, locking time and mobility a bigger ship class would now need to sacrifice all of it's medium and lowslots to achieve.
The Minmatar frigates reign the field supreme because of their natural bonuses to what makes the frigates special - namely speed and locking time. They also have a good choice for every role a frigate can assume at the present; bomber (Breacher), anti-frigate (Rifter) and EW support (Vigil) - all of which have the speed required to survive (see Defense below).
Many people feel they are taking a great risk buckling up the seat of a frigate and using it in live fire combat situations. Especially the older players who have implants to lose. Personally I feel alot safer in my Rifter than I'd do in my Tempest, because the risk of actually getting caught and podded is miniscule. This is why;
 Defense
A frigateers first and last line of defense is speed. A frigate fitted with a single MWD reaches very high speeds, even with some moderate navigational skills. High speed means you will be rendered practically immune to bigger ships' turrets and missiles.
The magical barrier to pass for a frigate pilot is 2 km/s. This is because it is the present maximum velocity of a cruise missile, assuming the opponent has the skill Standard Missiles at level 5. Many players are happy with having this skill at level 4 though, making it so that cruise travel with a velocity of 1920 m/s. Surpass that and you will be safe from both turrets and missiles.
Some people skip the MWD and fit armour plates and shields instead. While an armour plate might be a good addition to be able to survive a cruise missile volley from another frigate, it must never come at the sacrifice of going below 2 km/s. Shieldboosters are close to useless, since in frigates you either get destroyed or survive without a scratch - making a shield booster excessive and a waste of a slot.
(On present TQ build, if you wish to orbit another ship with a frigate MWD you will have to do it manually, clicking empty points in space. Orbiting at these high speeds is at present bugged and will make your ship go in a zig-zag move. This zig-zag move, when up against heavier turrets, will make you very easy to hit as the turrets won't have as hard of a time tracking you (lesser radial velocity). The orbiting has been fixed on Chaos though, so this should be fixed on TQ as well with the next patch)
The last two things you need to know if engaging cruisers and battleships in your frigate is this:
 Keep at least 5km away from the battleships at all time! This is the range of large smartbombs and if the battleship has a few, you run a high risk of not only being destroyed but also podded. No speed or agility in the world will save you from a smartbomb's radius.
If the ship launches drones, quickly fly away. As soon as the drones have acquired a lock on you and started firing, they will continue to do so for a very long time, even if you hurry away with your MWD. They always hit for maximum damage as well, making them a frigateers worst nightmare. Be prepared to warp away if they start firing on you!
Offense
Frigates can be used offensively in several ways. They can act as support for capital ships, or they can be solo privateers harassing the enemy. In any way there is one type of weaponry which outclasses all other types you can fit on your frigate - missilery.
Missilery has several advantages compared to turrets on frigates. First and foremost they offer you range, second of all they offer you immense firepower released within seconds compared to the small turrets. Cruise missiles is the most effective weapon on a frigate, but the lesser types of missiles will work very good too. Thirdly and most importantly missiles are reliable to always hit with maximum impact, a trait highly desired for a frigateer as you will have your own speed working against you if you use turrets, scoring lesser hits.
To attack other frigates who are aware of what they're doing, you will need a web. The web is therefore the second most desired module on any frigate (works both for fleet support and for frigate duels). The tactic is to try and get within 10 km range of the opposing frigate, hit the webs and then quickly zoom away from the scene - launching your volley of missiles and hoping for that the other frigate didn't have enough time to web you. The duration of the web will slow the enemy frigate down so that your missiles will hit. Two cruise missiles is usually all it takes to bring any frigate down. It's therefore a lethal tactic.
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 12:16:00 -
[2]
Sidenote for offense: For frigate support use a 7.5km warpscrambler instead of a 20km one. It has much lesser fitting requirements, much lesser cap use and is twice as effective. The range of it won't be an issue because you will be able to use your MWD to close that distance quickly.
Cap Issues
Contrary to other ships frigates don't have spare capacitor capacity to spare. The battery is very small and instead of relying on reserves it relies on being able to compensate for any usage of it effectively. This is easiest to acquire by fitting as many lowslots as you need with Cap Relays. Two is enough with moderate skills to run a MWD + web & scrambler indefinately, but you will have to test yourself.
The important thing to consider is that if your power consumption > regeneration, you will probably get killed because you didn't have enough cap to run that MWD crucial for your survival. Once again this makes Minmatar frigates preferable, since their weaponry hardly requires any cap to use and they have a good mix of low and medium slots.
Final notes: Piracy
From personal experience I find it both much more fun and profitable to pirate in frigates. Nowadays people use frigates and shuttles to transport valuables, and other frigates is the best way to catch them en route. They're cheaper to fly, and you can roam about more easily without a thing their fleets can do about it (supposed you're trained enough).
There's, as I mentioned, the issue of being afraid to use your implants. I wouldn't worry too much about it, since the risk you run of being caught is close to nill. If a cruiser or battleship should kill you, you will have plenty of time to warp away with your pod before they can even target you. Even frigates have a hard time locking the pods down - mostly because I think there is a server side delay before your pod is available for them to target while you gain control of your pod the moment your ship is destroyed.
In today's world with bookmarks, safespots and - dear god - dual MWD's, pirates are finding it harder and harder to catch their prey. Try out frigates... it's way more versatile and fun, with a higher success of getting kills.
It's worth it the day you catch that blockade runner carrying a battleship blueprint original :)
/Nightfang
|
Sardau Kar
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 12:19:00 -
[3]
Great post.
Nuff said
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 12:38:00 -
[4]
Remember to sign the " I hate the Wrecking Hit Formula " form before entering your frigate.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Rob Mattacks
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 13:17:00 -
[5]
Excellent Nightfang, i am sure many will find this useful
|
Mortis
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 13:56:00 -
[6]
great post .
Just as a matter of interest would you go for an all out missle frig? and if you using something like a rifter what weapons are we talking about, 250 scouts or some close range projectiles
|
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 14:02:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
great post .
Just as a matter of interest would you go for an all out missle frig? and if you using something like a rifter what weapons are we talking about, 250 scouts or some close range projectiles
hi:2x280 howitzers 2xlaunchers with cruise
meds: depends on what you are fighting, and with whom.
v BS: 1 sensor dampener, 1 mwd
v frigate: 1 mwd, 1 webber
Lo: PDU, lo slot sensor booster or weapon mod
Rifter is best used as an attack frigate on a locked and dampened target or as an anti-frigate frigate.
I have been playing extensively with the crow, experimenting with strafing runs on webbed targets... it works very well.
As nightfang stated - dont bother with any defense on a frigate - speed is your only defence, and the timing of the pilot
Miso x
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Muspell
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 14:08:00 -
[8]
nice post... I also fly a tempest, but I have recently started making some experiments in frigates.. laughed my ass off when I engaged a typhoon earlier today in my rifter, and he didn't even lock me, he warped away :)
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 14:20:00 -
[9]
My personal setup on my Rifter is much like Miso's, but with 2 x 250mm Light Artilleries instead and 2 x Cap Relays instead. I find that with Engineering they fit perfectly (I have like 1 powergrid left).
|
ElGuapo
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 17:05:00 -
[10]
I fly a Taranis and even htough it is a pure turret frig I have had great success with it. With 3 modal neutrons usually 1 pass at 2-3km/s is all it takes to kill most frigs. Each gun does about 65damage per shot. With 3 guns and a rof of 1.8 sec that gives me about 110 damge per second.
I also use a cap injector and it helps greatly with cap problems and can use 2 MWD for a very long time in addition to shooting. Instead of the cap relays I have a damage mod also. Flying frigs in combat is very exciting. Great post
|
Artegg
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 18:04:00 -
[11]
That was a great post good job Nightfang. I am finding myself spending more and more time in frig's these days they are just so much fun:)
|
Ukiah
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 20:16:00 -
[12]
Very good post, the only thing I disagree with is the 20k warp disruptor. As you mentioned, being webbed yourself is deadly. A 20k disruptor does have higher fitting costs and activation costs. However, the 20k range gives you 10k of room to play with. IF you know you opponent DOESN'T have a webbifier, go with the 7500m scrambler.
There's a particular person I've been dancing with for the past three weeks. He's managed to get away after suffering dmg, but got an idea of what I was running and changed his setup accordingly.
I ran into him again last night. I thought he was running for the gate (he actually wasn't), so I approached at highspeed. It was a very clever tactic on his part, because I drifted inside of 10k and he webbed me. I DID survive and he DID die, but that was only because I had friends to cover for my escape.
Once you're webbed, even an interceptor can't outrun cruises. I took 2 and survived, but I had about 5% armor and 40% structure left. Yeah, we one, but he gets a moral victory for my blunder.
P.S. He's actually killed me once before, about a week ago, but I don't think he can count that as a victory. I was working with a teammate who had never flown with me before and who accidentally targetted me and hit me with two cruises. So when the real bad guy fired, I was already a gonner.
|
Prodigious
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 21:59:00 -
[13]
ive been testing a new rifter setup: 2x200mm auto, a missile launcher and a small smartbomb. mwd and webbie in mid slots.
this setup works very well against other frigates that use web. it's also desirable if u dont wanna spend too much on cruise. what u do is u web, soften the target up with emp s and fire a devastator to finish it. if youre webbed, np, just use the smartbomb to pop the cruises.
this one guy must've wasted 15 cruise on me, and i was at point blank! the sound 3 cruise missiles exploding at once fills u with satisfaction. and then u pummel the target some more with autocannons!
ps. autocannons have an awesome tracking speed at high mwd speeds. i was hittin about 40 dmg/sec with 2 autocannons orbiting w/ mwd
|
Filve Tantiss
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 00:11:00 -
[14]
Vigil
1 MWD
1 webbie ( preferably named )
1 scrambler
3 power diagnostics ( allaround nice )
1 M12 with cruise missiles
2 200mm's with PP
u can speed to any frigate web and scramble it and circle it without being hit
i killed a kestrel with it :D
|
Rhuu
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 05:59:00 -
[15]
I noticed that all of the interceptors and drones and most of the 'power' frigates (except: Inquisitor, Merlin, Incursus, Breacher) don't have sufficient sensor strength to overcome ECM bursts... Are these useful at all? That is, for the duration of an ECM burst will no ships be able to lock the bursting ship? Or just at the beginning of the burst? Or do these modules work at all?
If they do work, the incursus seems like a fine ship, and the merlin and the breacher look like powerhouses.
Yeah, I'm a newbie. Cut me some slack.
|
Xhalax
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 07:53:00 -
[16]
I don't see any mention of the tristan in the thread?
Is this because the rifter is just too good for most other frigates? |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 08:12:00 -
[17]
In my experience the Tristan is too bulky and heavy to be an effective frigate. While the third medslot in combination with a missile launcher slot is a clear advantage, the Vigil does the Tristan's role much more efficiently. Probably because it's faster and nimbler than a Tristan and doesn't have to sacrifice lowslots for Nanofibres/Overdrives to reach the 2km/s barrier...
Incursus are better frigates, if you ask me and must insist on Gallente :)
/Nightfang
|
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 09:13:00 -
[18]
Quote:
In my experience the Tristan is too bulky and heavy to be an effective frigate. While the third medslot in combination with a missile launcher slot is a clear advantage, the Vigil does the Tristan's role much more efficiently. Probably because it's faster and nimbler than a Tristan and doesn't have to sacrifice lowslots for Nanofibres/Overdrives to reach the 2km/s barrier...
Incursus are better frigates, if you ask me and must insist on Gallente :)
/Nightfang
I have to take issue with you there on the Tristan. Its an awesome little ship if you know how to use it properly Maybe one day, if you're a good boy, I'll show you.
The Incursus is a great 1v1 frigate killer though.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 09:31:00 -
[19]
The Incursus (and Gallente interceptors) for that matter will be killer frigate platforms with the next patch.
I can but only drewl over a blaster-outfitted frigate which can automaticall orbit at optimal weapon range and still maintain high enough speed to outrun cruise. *dreeeeewl* 
|
TWD
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 09:44:00 -
[20]
Frigates are great fun.
Almost took down a battleship with 2 normal frigs today, but ran out of cap and died :o
cap display didnt show right ;)
We've taken several battleships down in frigates,
There are some effective ways to deal with drones.
Also the manual orbitting stuff works great to avoid missiles/turrets.
All this new orbiting fixing and fixing drones sucks IMO.
Will make it too easy, adapting to the nublars who cant use it properly,
instead of them being creative in making workarounds.
only thing that sucks is wrecking shots :) |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 09:51:00 -
[21]
As a matter of fact DrStrangelove is telling my your story about it now, TWD. I hear 3 CA battleships ran from your 5 Rifters :)
|
Kayosoni
|
Posted - 2004.04.07 17:35:00 -
[22]
Actually TWD, there is a tradeoff with the orbit fix, it brings your speed down a bit... doing it manually will make you much faster. :)
We are going to be releasing a C4 FRIGGIES vid soon...
-----------------------------------
Currently Playing Lineage 2 - Erica Server |
Rivek
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 03:26:00 -
[23]
So what are the anti drone tricks? I can't imagine you wouldnt be quickly killed or forced to flee with best possible speed by someone dropping a squad of heavies.
----------------------------------------------
BS Weapon Comparison
TunDraGon.com |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 07:52:00 -
[24]
Heavy Drone Tactics at current castor build = Run as fast as you can. Warp out the second they start shooting you, because they will continue to do so indefinately (more or less).
|
Deadflip2
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 09:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Deadflip2 on 12/04/2004 09:39:12
Tactics
(raptors and crows)
1 mwd, 1 webby, 1 wscr. Missile launchers.
right now you fit cruise in the missle launchers, manually orbit at about 25 kms (gettign closer to wscr it then movign out again to avoid him doing the same to you), fire cruise missle at it, then after 20 secs (and 2 salvos) run into the frigate or somein and webby it.
now since most people use rifter frigates, with 2 med slots, they'll fit a mwd and a wscr, this tactic means that you can outrun their 2 missile launchers, while (once you web them).
in this tactic timing is really imporant, know the act time of wscr and webbers, and be able to notice when he atempts to warp out.
regarless in my raptor i killed quite a few rifters and other frigates doing this.
however when using this tactic against frigates with 3 med slots remove the wscr and add a mwd (only tap the 2nd when ur webbed!). with this tatic you gotta warp in run into him right away, fire ur missiles, web him, and hope he wasnt smart enough to activate warp when u just came in (wont work on a elite frigate since they warp in about 1 second regardless).
owh and dont forget tha most important thing on a frigate, you need to react fast...
owh and nightfang, special thanks to you for actually making me train the last bits for elite frigates by showing off in one a few weeks ago, was worth it
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Deadflip2
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 09:35:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Actually TWD, there is a tradeoff with the orbit fix, it brings your speed down a bit... doing it manually will make you much faster. :)
We are going to be releasing a C4 FRIGGIES vid soon...
add the pieces where i killed them 
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Yemen
|
Posted - 2004.04.14 05:21:00 -
[27]
I Find The Breacher To Work Very Well It has The Speed To outrun Cruise Missles with 1 mwd The 3 Missle Slots Give it Good Firepower  Another Great Advantage That Is Over Looked is Lock Range I find The rifter doesnt have the targeting Range Needed To stay away From drones and If The Rifter Uses 200mm They have to be way to close they simply Get webbed and pumbled... And Yes i Have Seen people Work a Rifter Well but i Find The Breacher is The halfpoint Between a Kes and Rifter  give The Breacher a Try See what you think Just Today i managed to take on Three black birds and pod one of them and take no dmg
|
DREAMWORKS
|
Posted - 2004.04.14 08:08:00 -
[28]
Quote:
ive been testing a new rifter setup: 2x200mm auto, a missile launcher and a small smartbomb. mwd and webbie in mid slots.
this setup works very well against other frigates that use web. it's also desirable if u dont wanna spend too much on cruise. what u do is u web, soften the target up with emp s and fire a devastator to finish it. if youre webbed, np, just use the smartbomb to pop the cruises.
this one guy must've wasted 15 cruise on me, and i was at point blank! the sound 3 cruise missiles exploding at once fills u with satisfaction. and then u pummel the target some more with autocannons!
ps. autocannons have an awesome tracking speed at high mwd speeds. i was hittin about 40 dmg/sec with 2 autocannons orbiting w/ mwd
:| I never hit a damn thing... :|
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Gen Maximus
|
Posted - 2004.04.28 12:24:00 -
[29]
Out of all these posts I see nothing mentioned about Merlins. They are sposed to be the best Caldari Frigate to use. I dont want to have to learn another race's frigate skill just to have a decent frigate. whats the go ?
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.28 12:40:00 -
[30]
In PvP, the Merlin is too slow to be effective. It has to sacrifice alot to reach that magical barrier of 2km/s (speed needed to outrun cruise). Unfortunately this trend goes for all Caldari frigates, making them a bad choice in frigateering.
The Kestrel is popular though, having the ability to launch 4 cruise missiles in one volley. In my experience they die before having made any damage though.
If you really want to stay hard-core Caldari, I suggest you train for the Caldari interceptors. In stark contrast to their tier 1 through 3 brethren, they are the best frigates out there, even compared to other races.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |