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Active Raven vs Passive Raven for PVP?

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Oktacon	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Oktacon on 03/03/2008 22:04:17 I know that a Raven is not a very good tanker, but I've been messing around on EFT. With my skills, I can get 31k shields with 149k effective HP with 3 T2 Extenders 3 T2 Invul Fields This nets me 170 tank. With Em 62, Thermal 70, Kinetic 77, and Explosive at 85. With an Active setup, my choices are pretty damn limited because of fitting and I don't want to buy a PG implant. 2 Invul Fields 1 X-Large C5 Shield Overload 2 T2 Amplifiers Heavy Cap Booster This getrs me 516 Tank and effective Hp of 45 K with reduced resists obviously. I'm aware this might not be the best Active Tank setup, but my question is, for PVP which is preferable for a Raven? Active or Passive?
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:03:00 - [2] Originally by: Oktacon I know that a Raven is not a very good tanker, but I've been messing around on EFT. With my skills, I can get 31k shields with 149k effective HP with 3 T2 Extenders 3 T2 Invul Fields 3 Extenders This nets me 170 tank. With Em 62, Thermal 70, Kinetic 77, and Explosive at 85. With an Active setup, my choices are pretty damn limited because of fitting and I don't want to buy a PG implant. 2 Invul Fields 1 X-Large C5 Shield Overload 2 T2 Amplifiers Heavy Cap Booster This getrs me 516 Tank and effective Hp of 45 K with reduced resists obviously. I'm aware this might not be the best Active Tank setup, but my question is, for PVP which is preferable for a Raven? Active or Passive? 9 slot raven eh? Sell it, and fly CNR's and officer ravens for the rest of your pvp-career... There's more than one version of pvp. In larger gangs and fleets, active tank means nothing as you'll take such huge amount of damage anyway. In small gangs, you might even be able to tank it all. Hence as a general rule(if fitting allows) - small gangs - active, large gangs - passive(buffer). Postcount: 576116
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Oktacon I know that a Raven is not a very good tanker, but I've been messing around on EFT. Are you kidding me? The Raven can field an awesome tank, depending on skills and isk invested. But as far as active/passive for pvp, I'd suggest two things: first, an active can absorb higher volumes of dmg during a shorter period of time, while also being able to fit a pvp related module or two, which will be practically impossible if you want a nice passive tank. Second, when it comes to pvp you wanna be able to actually dmg your opponent, and with a passive tank you won't be able to fit too many dmg mods - if any. Third, passive tanks tends to cost more as well. So make up what suits you best and go for it, but a poor tanker - the Raven is not. Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:05:00 - [4] You shouldn't passive tank a Raven. The lack of existence of XLSEs means you can never get your shield capacity high enough to have a reasonable passive recharge rate. The Raven should be active tanked in PVE and PVP. /makes fart noise
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Wideen Originally by: Oktacon I know that a Raven is not a very good tanker, but I've been messing around on EFT. Are you kidding me? The Raven can field an awesome tank, depending on skills and isk invested. But as far as active/passive for pvp, I'd suggest two things: first, an active can absorb higher volumes of dmg during a shorter period of time, while also being able to fit a pvp related module or two, which will be practically impossible if you want a nice passive tank. Second, when it comes to pvp you wanna be able to actually dmg your opponent, and with a passive tank you won't be able to fit too many dmg mods - if any. Third, passive tanks tends to cost more as well. So make up what suits you best and go for it, but a poor tanker - the Raven is not. The Raven has a hard time fielding a decent tank for PvP setups. Sieges and MWDs make your life on fittings difficult, especially if you want an injector too. I'd go with a buffer tanked torp raven. 6x Sieges, 2x med smarties\|med neuts 100mn MWD II, warp disruptor II, target painter (named for fittings reasons), LSE, 2x Invuln. 3x BCS, PDS II, suitcase. 3x Core defense field extenders. Lots of hitpoints, and massive damage at 20km. (We're talking the kind of damage that will melt another BS in under a minute) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:17:00 - [6] I was unaware that we were talking about a solo pvp ship? In case we're not, that disruptor is useless tbh. And no, Raven still excels at tanking imo Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Oktacon	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Alowishus You shouldn't passive tank a Raven. The lack of existence of XLSEs means you can never get your shield capacity high enough to have a reasonable passive recharge rate. The Raven should be active tanked in PVE and PVP. Well, I was aiming for a buffer tank, not a passive tank like a Drake
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Wideen I was unaware that we were talking about a solo pvp ship? In case we're not, that disruptor is useless tbh. And no, Raven still excels at tanking imo Actually, a disruptor is pretty standard on all setups in everything but large scale pvp. Small and medium gangs fit it, simply because you can't rely on a single or few tackler survives, and gets in range in time. Nor that you have points enough to catch all the stabbers around. Postcount: 470693
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:22:00 - [9] Solo; yes, go with the disruptor, but if you have a friend I think it's pretty useless due to your locking time. Anything stabbed will prob. have warped anyways. Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Compendium	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:27:00 - [10] The Drake can actually make a better passive tank than the Raven. The Raven should always be an active tanker. Oh look, a signature!
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:38:00 - [11] Originally by: NoNah Actually, a disruptor is pretty standard on all setups in everything but large scale pvp. Standard amongst who? Because I disagree. If I have Ravens in my gang I want them to get two jobs done for me: do damage, not die. Given that they can significantly prolong their ability to do the former by accomplishing the latter, I'd rather they fit for maximum tank rather than doing a job I expect any number of other ships to be able to handle. /makes fart noise
Tactus Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:40:00 - [12] passive ravens tank armor. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Raivi ...but if spending all your imaginary money on an imaginary spaceship with a camo paintjob is wrong then I don't want to be right.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Tactus passive ravens tank armor. and 3x painter 1x faction web and 2x heavy neuts to instapop vagas? *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. Originally by: Mitnal Locked, one troll after another. Mitnal, Community Representative
Gypsio III Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:59:00 - [14] Once you've fitted T2 Siege and a MWD, the Raven simply doesn't have the slots, PG or CPU to fit an active tank without gimping itself with fitting mods. Hence, buffer tank is best. It's like the Drake, really.
Deux Machina	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:18:00 - [15] It's a buffer tank people - not a "passive" tank. It is perfectly acceptable to buffer tank your Torp Raven... it's exactly like buffer tanking the Megathron. I am looking for a good corp
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:27:00 - [16] Originally by: Deux Machina It's a buffer tank people - not a "passive" tank. It is perfectly acceptable to buffer tank your Torp Raven... it's exactly like buffer tanking the Megathron. So if passive tanking wouldn't be defined as tanking with the absence of an active module to restore your hitpoints.. What does? Can you use active harderners? Can you use ganglinks? Can you use drones? The difference is you won't tank a Raven by regenerating faster than you take damage. Hence you would have to seperate it by regenerative and bufferbased tanks. As they would both qualify as passive tanks. Postcount: 275371
Deux Machina	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:48:00 - [17] Edited by: Deux Machina on 04/03/2008 00:49:21 Originally by: NoNah So if passive tanking wouldn't be defined as tanking with the absence of an active module to restore your hitpoints.. What does? Passive tanking on these forums has grown to mean buffer tanks for armor (aka the Harbinger, Geddon, and Megathron) and regen tanks for shields (aka the Drake, Myrmidon, and Nighthawk). Don't be dense, NoNah, you know this as well as I do. That's why I clarified that the OP was going for a shield buffer tank. The people flaming because you can't regen effectively are... silly, at best. Ed: Added examples I am looking for a good corp
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:14:00 - [18] I always liked the term "HP tank", meaning "Hit Points" but buffer works, or hey, HP Buffer. To me passive means passive recharge, not exchange cap for HP, so it obviously would only apply to shields. I totally disagree that you need an MWD on a Torp Raven. I dunno what kind of engagements you guys find yourselves in but if you've got a range of over 20KM then you shouldn't need an MWD for most things. If your target is over 30KM away you're doing it wrong. /makes fart noise
Gypsio III Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:23:00 - [19] I don't fit MWDs because of the range of torps (although they are useful in this context, I remember MWDing after a Mega that was trying to run, we didn't have a suitable webber around so I had to chase him across the belt). I fit MWD to survive when I'm bumped off gate or station, or I jump into a gatecamp.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:42:00 - [20] Not having a MWD on a close range ship is silly, even if it is a torp raven. Besides, if you fit for a BUFFER shield tank (I use passive but that is because I am gallente thus I armor tank and passive = buffer to me), you will fly faster than any standard plate-mega. In that case, you might as well fit a MWD so that you make the enemy chase you. It could save you (especially since your weapon systems don't require cap). If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:29:00 - [21] Active raven setup (note that it needs to have someone else tackle for it): 6 siege II 2 280mm howitzer artillery II (because you don't have the fittings for anything larger) 1 XL C5-L shield booster (I've never seen a raven setup with enough CPU to fit T2; CCP needs to do something about that) 1 quad LiF 100MN MWD 1 PWNAGE target painter 1 invulnerability field II 1 shield boost amplifier II 1 heavy cap injector II 2 ballistic control II 1 damage control II 1 reactor control II 1 co-processor II 1 anti-EM screen rig 1 anti-kinetic screen rig 1 anti-thermal screen rig -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:52:00 - [22] i use HP buffer on my raven for pvp 6x siege, 2x random depending on gang mwd, 3x lse, invul, 1x random(painter, invul... whatever) 3x bcu, dcu, pdu 3x extender rigs ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Murder Love	Posted - 2008.03.04 09:18:00 - [23] 6x Siege Launcher II [with Rage] Heavy Unstable Neutralizer Offline Remote LAR 3x LSE II 2x Inv Field II Warp Disruptor II Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control II Reactor Control Warhead Calefaction Catalyst Anti-Em Screen Reinforcer Core Defense Shield Extender 2x Ogre 2x Hammerhead 1x Hobgoblin Around 1100 dps with 100k+ effective hp and 80hp recharge(no recharge mods so its a bonus).
Oktacon	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Riho i use HP buffer on my raven for pvp 6x siege, 2x random depending on gang mwd, 3x lse, invul, 1x random(painter, invul... whatever) 3x bcu, dcu, pdu 3x extender rigs Is the MWD worth losing a Invul for? Because that last invul does give a decent amount of effective HP
Deux Machina	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Oktacon Is the MWD worth losing a Invul for? Because that last invul does give a decent amount of effective HP No, for an overwhelming number of reasons. I am looking for a good corp
The Tzar Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:06:00 - [26] I think when people say 'passive tank' for pvp raven they don't actually mean a drake style recharge tank but a buffer instead with no shield power relays. I can say with absolute confidence that in terms of ravens lost, the ones with active tanks fall a lot quicker than the buffer tanks. I would say the '9 slot' buffer raven is best for pvp:- 6 x Arby Siege 1 x LRAR 1 x mNOS 1 x PWNAGE 2 x Invul II 3 x LSE II 3 x BCU II 1 x PDS II 1 x DCU II 3 x CDFE Rigs As OP stated should give you something in the region of 150 eff. HP. with some nice damage plus a TP and remote rep for gang help.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:12:00 - [27] Don't passive tank a raven in PVP, in PVE it can be done (for the ultimate in laziness) but in pvp its just going to be a buffer tank rather then a true passive build since you will need the usual untensils anyhow (scram, web, SB w/ lock time, etc, etc) so your better off making use of its awesome active tanking capabilities. Without actually working it out: If I was going to put together a passive build, it would certainly include 3 x Core defense field extenders and 1 or 2 shield recharge mid slots, at least 2 x SPR IIs, and alot of hardeners. Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
DiuxDium Caldari Clown College Clown Punchers Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:23:00 - [28] Edited by: DiuxDium on 05/03/2008 23:23:37 6x cruise 1x Neut 1x Imp cloak II 3x Damp (Targeting range) 2x SB 1x 100mn mwd 3x BCU II 1x 1600mm rolled tung 1x Medium armor rep II rigs should be wfc ------------- Hello America
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:37:00 - [29] Originally by: DiuxDium Edited by: DiuxDium on 05/03/2008 23:23:37 6x cruise 1x Neut 1x Imp cloak II 3x Damp (Targeting range) 2x SB 1x 100mn mwd 3x BCU II 1x 1600mm rolled tung 1x Medium armor rep II rigs should be wfc Drop the plate for a DC II
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Haradgrim Don't passive tank a raven in PVP, in PVE it can be done (for the ultimate in laziness) but in pvp its just going to be a buffer tank rather then a true passive build since you will need the usual untensils anyhow (scram, web, SB w/ lock time, etc, etc) so your better off making use of its awesome active tanking capabilities. Without actually working it out: If I was going to put together a passive build, it would certainly include 3 x Core defense field extenders and 1 or 2 shield recharge mid slots, at least 2 x SPR IIs, and alot of hardeners. Buffer tank is still a passive tank, and tanked dps is relatively meaningless when you have multiple gank BS wailing on you. I run 1 x MWD, 1 x TP, 2 x LSE II, 2 x invuln II in the med slots. You should not be flying the Raven solo anyway. Don't bother with SPR or shield rechargers, all you need is enough hp to last a bit of focused fire. Active raven in pvp is manageable, but I find it too situational to be useful.
DiuxDium	Posted - 2008.03.06 05:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Originally by: DiuxDium Edited by: DiuxDium on 05/03/2008 23:23:37 6x cruise 1x Neut 1x Imp cloak II 3x Damp (Targeting range) 2x SB 1x 100mn mwd 3x BCU II 1x 1600mm rolled tung 1x Medium armor rep II rigs should be wfc Drop the plate for a DC II No thanks. ------------- Hello America
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.06 06:37:00 - [32] If you think you can fit any kind of meaningful active tank in those 5-slots-or-less that are available on a PvP setup, feel free to do it. Personally, I don't think so. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Wardeneo Gallente BLL Wise Guys Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.06 10:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Oktacon Edited by: Oktacon on 03/03/2008 22:04:17 I know that a Raven is not a very good tanker, but I've been messing around on EFT. With my skills, I can get 31k shields with 149k effective HP with 3 T2 Extenders 3 T2 Invul Fields This nets me 170 tank. With Em 62, Thermal 70, Kinetic 77, and Explosive at 85. With an Active setup, my choices are pretty damn limited because of fitting and I don't want to buy a PG implant. 2 Invul Fields 1 X-Large C5 Shield Overload 2 T2 Amplifiers Heavy Cap Booster This getrs me 516 Tank and effective Hp of 45 K with reduced resists obviously. I'm aware this might not be the best Active Tank setup, but my question is, for PVP which is preferable for a Raven? Active or Passive? no, no , no.... active, active, active, active - did i forget summin, o yea, active :) a raven ain no drake, so dont set it up like 1 If brute force doesn't work..... your not using enough :)
Dreadmuppet Four	Posted - 2008.03.06 12:02:00 - [34] how about a full armour buffer tank, unconventional I know but what the hell 120496 HP 536 DPS Not exactly earth shattering but could be worse ;-) [Raven, nub1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Damage Control II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Target Painter II ECM Burst II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Devastator Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Devastator Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Devastator Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Devastator Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Devastator Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Devastator Cruise Missile Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Plasma Smartbomb II Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x1 Hammerhead II x4
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.06 12:08:00 - [35] Originally by: Oktacon Originally by: Riho i use HP buffer on my raven for pvp 6x siege, 2x random depending on gang mwd, 3x lse, invul, 1x random(painter, invul... whatever) 3x bcu, dcu, pdu 3x extender rigs Is the MWD worth losing a Invul for? Because that last invul does give a decent amount of effective HP depends the way you are useing it.... i use it for roaming gangs... so i kinda need it :) if you have a another guy whit a painter in gang.. drop that for a invul ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"

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