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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction War Against the Manifest
3
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Posted - 2011.09.08 17:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun. They do perform quite well when accompanied by a gang of 20-30 other people all using ACs  |

baltec1
25
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Posted - 2011.09.08 17:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:baltec1 wrote:Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun. They do perform quite well when accompanied with a gang of 20-30 other people all using ACs 
Been going out in gangs of 5 to 10 in them lately. Bugger all was found to kill. I keep trying to get more FCs to let me bring them but they hold the view a BS cant keep up with BC
However I have corrupted another player who now flys a triple nano mega
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
37
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Posted - 2011.09.08 17:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun. well it is an instance where it works because you eliminate the mobility issue out of the equation
the concept is nice, but don't forget that a 30% nerf on the RoF actually equates to more than 30% damage nerf.
tbh still say that, for blasters, the damage should be increased considerably, a moderate tracking boost, a nerf on range so that they can only operate on the 10km range, revamp of armour rigs and plates and perhaps some fooling around on the ship's mass. the thing is that while blasters are damage kings, that is on paper really, and they have just a tiny damage advantage over the next best thing, while said best thing can have 3x more range.
for rails it's harder. while less complex in terms of what happens, it's really an issue of "how". increasing damage is a bleh approach, but rethinking on caldari gunship fittings is the thing that needs to be done the most, specially when you consider the tengu example,. where the powergrid engineering subsystem that supposedly complements the rail sub, actually have much less grid than any other of the subs, totalling a base 555mw grid, while you have subs that have over 800mw base grid (and none of them have hislots ). hell now that I think about it, the subs that have hislots have 555 and 600mw grid
in hindsight however, one must consider the fact that this mostly applies to the medium and large versions of the guns, since small rails actually operate ok since they can shoot up to the 150km range, and small blaster boats don't have the mobility issues their larger counterparts have. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |

Tabernack en Chasteaux
Next Generation Material Solutions
8
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Posted - 2011.09.08 17:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Role bonus for [edit: Gallente] blaster boats: x% reduction in speed penalties for armor plates/rigs?
Just throwing a half-baked idea out there. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
130
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Posted - 2011.09.08 18:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:here are the fixes for hybrids:
blasters:
concept shotguns (short range arties...)
1. Increase base damage by 30% 2. Decrease rate of fire by 30%
1.3 * 0.7 = 0.91
I'm not sure that a 9% DPS nerf is what blasters need. I'd go with
increase base damage by 50% decrease RoF by 30%
for a net 5% damage increase and 30% cap use reduction.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal made on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2011.09.08 18:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
yikes...ok going to fix the post then i did the math when i was kinda tipsy... |

baltec1
25
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Posted - 2011.09.08 18:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:baltec1 wrote:Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun. well it is an instance where it works because you eliminate the mobility issue out of the equation 
Which is why I am giggling at the thought of giving gal hulls more speed |

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction War Against the Manifest
3
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Posted - 2011.09.08 18:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cambarus wrote:baltec1 wrote:Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun. They do perform quite well when accompanied with a gang of 20-30 other people all using ACs  Been going out in gangs of 5 to 10 in them lately. Bugger all was found to kill. I keep trying to get more FCs to let me bring them but they hold the view a BS cant keep up with BC  However I have corrupted another player who now flys a triple nano mega  5 to 10 man gangs? Is this the same fit you use with no tackle mod? And as far as giving gallente extra speed goes (note that I am very much against this change, as it basically makes gallente the same thing as minmatar, only worse), you are aware that the pest has just under 20% more base speed than the mega yeh? Slightly less DPS(and even that depends on the fit), but better range, more utility,variable damage types, and a better slot layout for what you're trying to do. I'm not actually against the hyp being shield tanked and used in BC gangs, it's not BAD at it by any means (though there are better ships for the job, which is the main problem with blasters as a whole, they're just not best at anything). The mega however is hilarious, a 2 slot tank and no tackle mod? Come on. The pest may be better than the hyp for BC gangs, but at least the hyp can compete. The mega is just being silly  |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2011.09.08 19:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:usefull crtique
well ok then...
fixed the post to show an increase of 50% to base damage to off set the for reduction...
though i do agree that some ships could use a pg boost like the eagle and tengu...
but not too much... i would rather see the guns somewhat op with high fittings to offset then have sub par guns with good fittings...
|

baltec1
25
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Posted - 2011.09.08 19:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cambarus wrote: The mega is just being silly 
I agree, its daft, looks comical on a KM and EFT screams just no.
But my god it is so much fun to fly and at the end of the day, if it works and you're having fun why not?
When I do take it out on "nano hac roams" someone will always pipe up with "erm, why is that mega here?". People will then mutter about it but when they hear its me the FC will just say something along the lines of "No battleships, only baltec is to be in one, he does magic". I then become the fleets flagship and fun is had with much trolling about the guys who are slower than me and everyone compeating over who can out damage the mega. I normaly win if I can lock the target
Also yes shes the same fit. |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2011.09.08 19:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cambarus wrote: The mega is just being silly  I agree, its daft, looks comical on a KM and EFT screams just no. But my god it is so much fun to fly and at the end of the day, if it works and you're having fun why not? When I do take it out on "nano hac roams" someone will always pipe up with "erm, why is that mega here?". People will then mutter about it but when they hear its me the FC will just say something along the lines of "No battleships, only baltec is to be in one, he does magic". I then become the fleets flagship and fun is had with much trolling about the guys who are slower than me and everyone compeating over who can out damage the mega. I normaly win if I can lock the target  Also yes shes the same fit.
so what you are saying is that in the nano hac you pose as the bait? cool and then dumfound the guys when you start to orbit them lolz classic... i was looking for a good bait ship... |

baltec1
30
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Posted - 2011.09.08 19:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:
so what you are saying is that in the nano hac you pose as the bait? cool and then dumfound the guys when you start to orbit them lolz classic... i was looking for a good bait ship...
Done that a few times. Mainly I get dumped on the target as heavy firepower |

quigibow
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.11 03:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
drones anyone? |

Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
1
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Posted - 2011.09.11 09:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hybrids have several issues. Here is the list I know of for blasters:
1) harsh fitting requirements (it is nearly impossible to fit neutron blasters and tank be it active or passive on blasterboats) 2) only marginal damage increase compared to other gun types (especially if you take into account fitting requirements. your ion/electron blaster ship will be outdamaged even at close range by 425mm ACs) 3) ships intended as blasterboats are slow (hence will be kited to death or killed before being able to apply it damage) 4) blasters uses relatively high amount of capacitor (because amarr have cap reduction for their ships and other dmg types does not use cap)
tweaking these stats will probably only move blasters closer to autocannons, which is not intended direction. What about giving hybrids possibility to shoot auxiliary ammo?
This ammunition would do 0 damage, but would have other effects like ECM, web, knocks off your aligment, etc. (exact details can be worked on)
Together with maybe slight increase in damage it could justify having harsh fitting requirements, cap usage and long ammo switch time.
Similar solution could be used for railguns maybe with different effects. |

Ineka
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2011.09.11 12:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
quigibow wrote:drones anyone?
Let's see:
Amarr: check
Minmatar: Check
Caldari: Check
So why not Gallente too? 
|

Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2011.09.11 12:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Special hybrid ship bonus?
Guns that can shoot temporary swarms of drones that deal damage like any drone can do! :)
They stream out like Stargate SG1/Atlantis Ancient chair device!
BOOOM BOOOOM BOOOM!
They can hit multiple targets before expiring! |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
20
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Posted - 2011.09.11 12:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:Hybrids have several issues. Here is the list I know of for blasters:
1) harsh fitting requirements (it is nearly impossible to fit neutron blasters and tank be it active or passive on blasterboats) 2) only marginal damage increase compared to other gun types (especially if you take into account fitting requirements. your ion/electron blaster ship will be outdamaged even at close range by 425mm ACs) 3) ships intended as blasterboats are slow (hence will be kited to death or killed before being able to apply it damage) 4) blasters uses relatively high amount of capacitor (because amarr have cap reduction for their ships and other dmg types does not use cap)
tweaking these stats will probably only move blasters closer to autocannons, which is not intended direction. What about giving hybrids possibility to shoot auxiliary ammo?
This ammunition would do 0 damage, but would have other effects like ECM, web, knocks off your aligment, etc. (exact details can be worked on)
Together with maybe slight increase in damage it could justify having harsh fitting requirements, cap usage and long ammo switch time.
Similar solution could be used for railguns maybe with different effects.
Disagree.
ECM should be limited to ECM modules - and, what would stop another racial shiptype from fitting those guns and using that ammo?
Why would you be interested in giving every-other-ship capable of fitting hybrids the exact same advantage?
Rethink your suggestions, they have merit worth considering but are open to exploit by anyone with enough CPU and cap, don't you think?
AK "Few have found anger in solace, than solace in anger."
"Sincerity is a game best played by the insincere"
|

Arthur Black
SoE Roughriders
1
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Posted - 2011.09.11 14:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote: ammo:
Simular boost that projectile ammo got
concept choice between what damage type you want to do between thermal and Kinetic (i.e. antimater does 80% thermal damage 20% kin damage, uranium does 80% kin damage and 20% thermal damage)
While I realize that having the option to change damage type seems appealing, please consider the many active, cap using, modules these ships typically fit. Especially the active tanked ones. Say you're out in a Hyperion, there's plenty to manage already without having consider the type of ammunition you're using for the "right" damage. Besides, as I understand it, hybrid ammunition already has one of the best damage profiles. |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
20
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Posted - 2011.09.11 14:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Arthur Black wrote:MeBiatch wrote: ammo:
Simular boost that projectile ammo got
concept choice between what damage type you want to do between thermal and Kinetic (i.e. antimater does 80% thermal damage 20% kin damage, uranium does 80% kin damage and 20% thermal damage)
While I realize that having the option to change damage type seems appealing, please consider the many active, cap using, modules these ships typically fit. Especially the active tanked ones. Say you're out in a Hyperion, there's plenty to manage already without having consider the type of ammunition you're using for the "right" damage. Besides, as I understand it, hybrid ammunition already has one of the best damage profiles.
Surely the main and primary choice of ammo is related to the amount of damage it deals and then range?
As for damage type, w/e?
AK "Few have found anger in solace, than solace in anger."
"Sincerity is a game best played by the insincere"
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2011.09.11 16:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
or for pvp damage type is kinda mute since people omni tank... but for pve it actually does help... in alot of cases either kinetic or thermal can be secondary or even terciary damage types and if you had to option to choose which one let it be higher thermal for killing drones or higher kinetic for killing guristas that would help in the pve department...
my other ideas short range arties for blasters and long range autos for rails will help in both the pve and pvp deparments... common guys use your big boy hats for once.... |
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Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
1
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Posted - 2011.09.11 19:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Shpenat wrote:
Ammo suggestion.
Disagree. ECM should be limited to ECM modules - and, what would stop another racial shiptype from fitting those guns and using that ammo? Why would you be interested in giving every-other-ship capable of fitting hybrids the exact same advantage? Rethink your suggestions, they have merit worth considering but are open to exploit by anyone with enough CPU and cap, don't you think? AK
Let me explain what I had in mind more precisely. ECM ammo would be more like ECM burst (break lock) so ship will be able to reduce incoming damage while moving into the range. But I actually like the "web" ammo more.
This ammo will upon hit slightly reduce the speed of the ship. It will be size and ship mass based (so small hybrid hitting battleship will have very small effect).
What will stop other races from using this as well? Nothing. There is no point in giving this only to one race. Same as nothing is preventing you from using autocanons on blasterboats. Except that you will waste bonuses.
The auxiliary ammo effect can of course be anything else depend on what devs would prefer it would be. These two seemed the obvious choice. It is also IMHO much easier to balance this new ammo instead of tweaking the hybrids itself and not making them OP. |

Arthur Black
SoE Roughriders
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.11 23:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote: Surely the main and primary choice of ammo is related to the amount of damage it deals and then range?
As for damage type, w/e?
Indeed. That's how I'd have to go about it. After the projectile changes, Minmatar pilots are encouraged to bring three to four different types of ammunition, depending the kind of fleet and expected opposition. This hurts their ability to bring e.g. cap boosters, which wold be even worse for Gallente ships. And since I would therefore ignore the damage type, I'd prefer it if just stayed "as is".
As has been mentioned, there's been a lot of input on the subject of hybrids. Reading the various threads on the topic, it's been hard to impossible to distill any kind of consensus on the matter. It seems everyone has a favorite that someone else is opposed to. All ranging from the fantastic (150% damage and/or RoF increase, 100% AB bonus for the Megathron, etc) to the more subtle, but with valid counter points. I could add my favorites as well I suppose, but it would only be some composition of what has already been talked about.
What I will add though is that I'd like to see something done to the guns themselves, not the ammunition or ship bonuses. Ammunition for reasons already stated and ship bonuses because it would inherently mean we loose one bonus on ships that don't already have a hybrid bonus. Then again, that may or may not be a bad thing, depending on the ship, and I suppose quite a few Amarrian ships have this to offset the various weaknesses of lasers (cap usage comes to mind).
Anyway, I don't envy CCP the job of trying to come up with something that works here. I've been mostly pleased with their changes in the past, so I trust they can read more sense out of these discussions that I'm able to in my spare time. In the mean time, I still like my Deimos (except the paint job) and don't mind waiting now that I know it will be looked at. After all, it seems most agree that it can only get better. |

Stridsflygplan
Wolfram Corp United Homeworlds
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 03:44:00 -
[53] - Quote
Give Blasters +20 to 30% more damage when overheating instead of 15%
it will give Blaster users that extra damage they need when they finally get into range. and Blaster ships often have the same fate: kill or be killed so you will probably overheat anyway. It wont be to much damage so everybody starts fitting Hybrids to other then Gallente ships.
Railguns can get +20 to 30% more rate of fire instead of 15% when overheating. Rail users will volley a little faster so hope that makes them happy. if there is any... |

Kartaugh
CyberNet Holdings
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 05:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Blasters are not as broken as people make out but do need work on them. Rails are something even I don't use.
I still think blasters merit a buff, although smaller than some suggestions. But yes, rails are royally screwed....damage is low as all hell...
"It's not that I am afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Boris Grushenko |

Azelor Delaria
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming The 0rphanage
16
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Posted - 2011.09.12 09:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:Crazy idea for Blasterboats:
Role bonus: -30% to the range of stasis webifiers Gallente Battleship bonus: 15% increase to the velocity factor of statis webifiers per level.
Meaning, it's hard to catch you, but when they do, you're royally feckered.
A random idea, but I like it.
Next time, think before posting. |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
20
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Posted - 2011.09.12 10:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Arthur Black wrote:...because it would inherently mean we loose one bonus on ships that don't already have a hybrid bonus...
Why?
Ship can have up to 5 bonuses, and I will keep coming back to this point: if you change the guns or the ammo, that will allow for any ship to gain the same advantage.
The short-comings of the Hybrids are a result of poorly thought out game changes, and none of those changes were to hybrid weaponry...
"Few have found anger in solace, than solace in anger."
"Sincerity is a game best played by the insincere"
|

Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 13:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
All the suggestions would just make hybrids more similar to either lasers or projectiles (regarding the damage).
But hybrids would still have tons of disadvantages in comparison of those, even if someday the damage is at last on even footing with the other weapon systems.
While there is still no distinctive advantage to hybrids and therefore still no reason for choosing this weapon system instead of the others. And apparently no one has even an idea what could be such an distinctive characteristic (aside from the current especially crappy).
So just get rid of hybrids as a weapon system. Give Gallente and Caldari either lasers or projectiles as turrets and take hybrids out of the game. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |

Arthur Black
SoE Roughriders
1
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Posted - 2011.09.12 21:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Arthur Black wrote: ...because it would inherently mean we loose one bonus on ships that don't already have a hybrid bonus...
Why?
Because you can't add another bonus to a ship that is supposed to use hybrids without also adding another bonus to the same ship of the other races.
If you did, that hybrid ship would be overpowered. And if you add another bonus to the same ship of other races, hybrids users loose again because the added bonus was "wasted" on fixing the turrets while the others likely got something specific for their role.
AlleyKat wrote: The short-comings of the Hybrids are a result of poorly thought out game changes, and none of those changes were to hybrid weaponry...
I partly agree. I don't think they were necessarily poorly thought out, but you're right that nothing has changed with hybrids themselves to get us to where we are today.
Which means that one way to go about it would be to nerf projectiles/lasers/missiles/whatever instead. I believe that will upset a lot more people than whatever boost they can come up with for hybrids though. |

Demon Azrakel
Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
18
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Posted - 2011.09.13 00:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
Arthur Black wrote:AlleyKat wrote:Arthur Black wrote: ...because it would inherently mean we loose one bonus on ships that don't already have a hybrid bonus...
Why? Because you can't add another bonus to a ship that is supposed to use hybrids without also adding another bonus to the same ship of the other races. If you did, that hybrid ship would be overpowered. And if you add another bonus to the same ship of other races, hybrids users loose again because the added bonus was "wasted" on fixing the turrets while the others likely got something specific for their role. AlleyKat wrote: The short-comings of the Hybrids are a result of poorly thought out game changes, and none of those changes were to hybrid weaponry...
I partly agree. I don't think they were necessarily poorly thought out, but you're right that nothing has changed with hybrids themselves to get us to where we are today. Which means that one way to go about it would be to nerf projectiles/lasers/missiles/whatever instead. I believe that will upset a lot more people than whatever boost they can come up with for hybrids though.
Actually, different numbers of bonuses do not necessarily make a ship overpowered; at least no more than equal amounts of bonuses make a ship underpowered. The bonuses are currently the same, but by your logic, Gallente must be balanced
Anyway, to post my input: Up PG on gallente ships (see 1600mm Ruppy v. 1600mm Thorax or x-l booster maelstrom v. dual rep Hyperion (the equivalent)). Up Blaster damage by 30%-40%, leave the ships slow as **** so you still have to work to get into range, but now it is actually worth it... |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 00:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Arthur Black wrote:
Because you can't add another bonus to a ship that is supposed to use hybrids without also adding another bonus to the same ship of the other races.
If you did, that hybrid ship would be overpowered. And if you add another bonus to the same ship of other races, hybrids users loose again because the added bonus was "wasted" on fixing the turrets while the others likely got something specific for their role.
Not sure I understand.
Why can't you add ship bonuses to hybrid ships and not add bonuses to non-hybrid ships.
If you are adding ship bonuses to affect the usability / piloting of hybrid ships when using hybrids, then why would that be overpowered?
If it boosted the ships too much, then there is failure in the bonuses that have been applied and that would have to be thought out carefully through testing, testing and more testing.
There is an entire server dedicated to testing, would be a good place to do this, one would think...instead of blanket nerfing the entire game because a nanophoon broke the ability of Destiny to calculate x,y,z positioning "Few have found anger in solace, than solace in anger."
"Sincerity is a game best played by the insincere"
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