Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

They are the ones who tried their best to carry the day purely with weight of numbers on their side, they are the ones who arrive at fleet battles flying cheap t1 crap most(but not all) of the time.

---

Originally by: Mihailo Great

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Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

They are the ones who tried their best to carry the day purely with weight of numbers on their side, they are the ones who arrive at fleet battles flying cheap t1 crap most(but not all) of the time.

---

I am in total agreement, how dare people who just joined eve and can only fly frigates think it's okay to participate in a large scale war?

They should go mine in high-sec for 6 months, then do missions for 2 years before even stepping into 0.0 like all the other idiot pubbies.

No respek these days I tell ya.

---

Originally by: mama guru

---

Originally by: Mihailo Great

---

Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

They are the ones who tried their best to carry the day purely with weight of numbers on their side, they are the ones who arrive at fleet battles flying cheap t1 crap most(but not all) of the time.

---

I am in total agreement, how dare people who just joined eve and can only fly frigates think it's okay to participate in a large scale war?

They should go mine in high-sec for 6 months, then do missions for 2 years before even stepping into 0.0 like all the other idiot pubbies.

No respek these days I tell ya.

---

And that about ends that debate.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Last i checked you can be in a sniping BS with basic skills within a month or so if you wish to be part of a blob war in a 0.0 alliance.

---

Originally by: Thomina Yorke

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Last i checked you can be in a sniping BS with basic skills within a month or so if you wish to be part of a blob war in a 0.0 alliance.

---

Nice troll.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Thomina Yorke

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Last i checked you can be in a sniping BS with basic skills within a month or so if you wish to be part of a blob war in a 0.0 alliance.

---

Nice troll.

---

Am i wrong?... do you have a constructive comment on the matter or not?.

---

Originally by: Anita Pakonen

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Thomina Yorke

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Last i checked you can be in a sniping BS with basic skills within a month or so if you wish to be part of a blob war in a 0.0 alliance.

---

Nice troll.

---

Am i wrong?... do you have a constructive comment on the matter or not?.

---

Yes. It takes at least 3 months to train adequate skills for sniping bs. More than that if you want to have acceptable range (>>150km) and fitting. New player is better off in tackling support ship like condor, or blackbird for ewar or even osprey. Just to pull off some examples. Not to mention you cannot afford to lose battleship after a mere month of playing.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

How much ISK did you have @ 2 months, and how did your BS perform overall?

---

Originally by: Mihailo Great

---

Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

They are the ones who tried their best to carry the day purely with weight of numbers on their side, they are the ones who arrive at fleet battles flying cheap t1 crap most(but not all) of the time.

---

I am in total agreement, how dare people who just joined eve and can only fly frigates think it's okay to participate in a large scale war?

They should go mine in high-sec for 6 months, then do missions for 2 years before even stepping into 0.0 like all the other idiot pubbies.

No respek these days I tell ya.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

How much ISK did you have @ 2 months, and how did your BS perform overall?

---

Way to ignore the point guy.

I had not a lot of isk tbh and my BS could hit at over 160km when i first trained for it but the point is that if the guys flying t1 crappy frigates had any sort of loyalty to their alliance they would turn up in a useful ship or give their place to somebody in a useful ship.

The lag/desync makes a t1 BS as useful as a rigged t2 BS but a t1 or noob friggie will always be useless in such fights apart from causing more lag.

---

Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

Originally by: Mihailo Great

---

Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

They are the ones who tried their best to carry the day purely with weight of numbers on their side, they are the ones who arrive at fleet battles flying cheap t1 crap most(but not all) of the time.

---

I am in total agreement, how dare people who just joined eve and can only fly frigates think it's okay to participate in a large scale war?

They should go mine in high-sec for 6 months, then do missions for 2 years before even stepping into 0.0 like all the other idiot pubbies.

No respek these days I tell ya.

---

Hah now you try to spin it to make it sound like you are doing those poor noobs a favour.
In actual fact you are taking those new players and introducing them to the worst aspect of EVE: Pos war.

Instead of being able to develop new connections/learn to make their way around EVE and discover the parts of this game which they ENJOY doing, you recruit the poor suckers, Propagandise them into yet another of your mindless anti-BOB smack spewing drones and drop them directly into one of the greatest meat grinders the game has ever seen: The seige of Delve.

Then you tell them that its all for their own good. That if it were not for you they would never be having so much "Fun".

I have news for you Goon drones, there are plenty of other great and fun aspects of this game and there are many other corps out there who will give you an opportunity to develop and grow, and who will not be using you as pure cannon fodder to fuel their own overblown Ego's. People who will really teach you skills and not simply that numbers are the best tactic(untrue in case you missed it).

Learn to think for yourselves. I know this may be heresy to your high command but believe me, there is more to EVE than being someone else's puppet.
There are more enjoyable things to do than being lagged to hell and back every time you go into battle.

Territorial warfare is not the most Important or the only part of EVE. It is only one of this games many many aspects. In fact for all the anti-elitism the Goons seem to propagate, claiming space is the most elitist act EVE has to offer.
Think on that next time you are staring at a black screen after jumping into an overloaded system.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

---

Way to ignore the point guy.

I had not a lot of isk tbh and my BS could hit at over 160km when i first trained for it but the point is that if the guys flying t1 crappy frigates had any sort of loyalty to their alliance they would turn up in a useful ship or give their place to somebody in a useful ship.

The lag/desync makes a t1 BS as useful as a rigged t2 BS but a t1 or noob friggie will always be useless in such fights apart from causing more lag.

---

Way to not only dodge my question, but spew a constant stream of misinformation indicative of either complete ignorance to the fundamental mechanics of both fleet warfare and the funding of new characters or willful dishonesty.

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad

---

Way to ignore the point guy.

I had not a lot of isk tbh and my BS could hit at over 160km when i first trained for it but the point is that if the guys flying t1 crappy frigates had any sort of loyalty to their alliance they would turn up in a useful ship or give their place to somebody in a useful ship.

The lag/desync makes a t1 BS as useful as a rigged t2 BS but a t1 or noob friggie will always be useless in such fights apart from causing more lag.

---

Way to not only dodge my question, but spew a constant stream of misinformation indicative of either complete ignorance to the fundamental mechanics of both fleet warfare and the funding of new characters or willful dishonesty.

---

"I had not a lot of isk tbh and my BS could hit at over 160km" THIS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.

And the point i was making was that their are considerably more useful ships to bring to a large fleet op than a t1 or noob friggie.

Perhaps the BS comparison was a bad one to use to make my point as there are always picky ppl like you about with a magnifying glass who miss the actual point.

But the fact remains that t1 friggies are only good for causing lag in fleet battles and nothing else and that is the point i was trying to make and the fact you missed in your haste to show how well you know how much stuff costs.

Originally by: Ewa Quillam

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

You must be playing a different version of Eve.

Your 2 or 3 months player has trained learning skills or not? Does he have 14 in perception to start with? Efficient learning skills take about 3 weeks to train and very efficient ones take about 6 weeks. Without those, after 3 months of learning combat skills you barely exceed 3 milion skill points, which were a waste of time to train without training learning skills first.

After those 3 months it ends up in a Rokh or an Apoc (because only those can fire past 150km without t2 guns and without sacrificing tank slots) with average modules, average fitting skills, average support skills (electronics, navigation, engineering, mechanic, gunnery) which costs a crapload to buy and fit, insure and loose it in a very bump way because a 3 month player has barely any clue how to fly a fleet BS.

By the way, how was your Saturday night? I went to a party, got drunk, got laid and went to the swimming pool. Did you enjoy posting?

Oh, and a simple reason to come to fleet fight in a t1 frig is "Because".

---

Originally by: marakor

---

read post 25 numpty.

---

Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam

---

Originally by: marakor

---

read post 25 numpty.

---

Read post n¦24 Muppet!

---

Originally by: Yorda

---

Dont forget people who fit LAR's, plates, 7.5km points, and no rigs on their carrier.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

Originally by: Jemmy Bloocher

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

A frigate uncloaked a titan and caused the first online titan death.

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: Jemmy Bloocher

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

A frigate can uncloak a titan.

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: Yorda

---

Originally by: Jemmy Bloocher

---

Originally by: marakor

---

I think 3 months is longer than really needed for basic sniper BS skills but the real/original point is that there is no reason what so ever for somebody to turn up to a huge 0.0 fleet fight in a useless frigate if you can fly a sniping BS within 2 or 3 months max or even a e-war cruiser in considerably less time.

---

A frigate uncloaked a titan and caused the first online titan death.

---

Fixed. Also keep spamming Marakor, you're bound to hit 50% of the posts in this thread at somepoint. Maybe by then someone will have read one of them.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

...id hardly call that a good reason...

---

Originally by: Jemmy Bloocher

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Any ship including another titan can do that (uncloak a titan) buddy, id hardly call that a good reason to bring bucket loads of friggies to a fleet fight when those flying them can bring e-war cruisers or useful ships.

---

So what?

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Jemmy Bloocher

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Any ship including another titan can do that (uncloak a titan) buddy, id hardly call that a good reason to bring bucket loads of friggies to a fleet fight when those flying them can bring e-war cruisers or useful ships.

---

So what?

---

Full post inserted for reference.

So what what?.

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

Hah now you try to spin it to make it sound like you are doing those poor noobs a favour.
In actual fact you are taking those new players and introducing them to the worst aspect of EVE: Pos war.

Instead of being able to develop new connections/learn to make their way around EVE and discover the parts of this game which they ENJOY doing, you recruit the poor suckers, Propagandise them into yet another of your mindless anti-BOB smack spewing drones and drop them directly into one of the greatest meat grinders the game has ever seen: The seige of Delve.

Then you tell them that its all for their own good. That if it were not for you they would never be having so much "Fun".

I have news for you Goon drones, there are plenty of other great and fun aspects of this game and there are many other corps out there who will give you an opportunity to develop and grow, and who will not be using you as pure cannon fodder to fuel their own overblown Ego's. People who will really teach you skills and not simply that numbers are the best tactic(untrue in case you missed it).

Learn to think for yourselves. I know this may be heresy to your high command but believe me, there is more to EVE than being someone else's puppet.
There are more enjoyable things to do than being lagged to hell and back every time you go into battle.

Territorial warfare is not the most Important or the only part of EVE. It is only one of this games many many aspects. In fact for all the anti-elitism the Goons seem to propagate, claiming space is the most elitist act EVE has to offer.
Think on that next time you are staring at a black screen after jumping into an overloaded system.

---

Originally by: Tirk Umpat

---

Either a wonderful troll or clueless person thinking they know anything about fleet warfare.

I'm leaning towards troll.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

...id hardly call that a good reason...

---

So what?

---

Full post inserted for reference.

So what what?.

---

Originally by: Jemmy Bloocher

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Any ship including another titan can do that (uncloak a titan) buddy, id hardly call that a good reason to bring bucket loads of friggies to a fleet fight when those flying them can bring e-war cruisers or useful ships.

---

So what?

---

Full post inserted for reference.

So what what?.

---

Irrelevant passages removed cos they make me look like stupid troll with nothing too add to the discussion.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

This.

I think me and this guy "get" goons all too well pal and so do most other ppl who are not new to the game.

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: Yorda

---

Originally by: marakor

---

This.

I think me and this guy "get" goons all too well pal and so do most other ppl who are not new to the game.

---

Yea we totally force them into shooting pos's all day in their rifters .

Once again showing your lack of knowledge of not only goons but pretty much 0.0 warfare as a whole.

Whoops, you're back below 50% better spam some more.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Yorda

---

Originally by: marakor

---

This.

I think me and this guy "get" goons all too well pal and so do most other ppl who are not new to the game.

---

Yea we totally force them into shooting pos's all day in their rifters .

Once again showing your lack of knowledge of not only goons but pretty much 0.0 warfare as a whole.

Whoops, you're back below 50% better spam some more.

---

Whatever bud if you wanna claim you have never crashed a node or lost a titan kill or any other kills for that matter due to having way too many crappy ships in your fleets then go ahead its not like ppl are not used to your lies anyway.

And yea wtf am i thinking of using this forum as a place to post opinions and debate them with others ffs..............

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: Yorda

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Originally by: Yorda

---

Originally by: marakor

---

This.

I think me and this guy "get" goons all too well pal and so do most other ppl who are not new to the game.

---

Yea we totally force them into shooting pos's all day in their rifters .

Once again showing your lack of knowledge of not only goons but pretty much 0.0 warfare as a whole.

Whoops, you're back below 50% better spam some more.

---

Whatever bud if you wanna claim you have never crashed a node or lost a titan kill or any other kills for that matter due to having way too many crappy ships in your fleets then go ahead its not like ppl are not used to your lies anyway.

And yea wtf am i thinking of using this forum as a place to post opinions and debate them with others ffs..............instead of posting one line insults like you mostly do.

---

Yea you should probably just give up and go to crapheap.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Seriously, old chap, maybe it's time to re-think your stock posts and come up with some new, original ones.

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2008 13:53:34




YORDA maybe you could actually make a post that contains something other than your regular insults or slagging off of others ideas or opinions.

Anyway my opinion on this thread was this before the insults/derails started flying:-

That T1 friggies are not worth bringing to large 0.0 fleet fights and i stand by this opinion although i have seen the more reasonable posters claim they can "decloaking titans". Any player in eve, even a 1-2 month old noob should be able to fly and afford a cruiser and if he cannot then the alliance he is in has not guided him properly in making isk or in his skill training chain as 0.0 fleet ops seem to be his choice of combat.

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2008 13:53:34
Anyway my opinion on this thread was this before the insults/derails started flying:-

That T1 friggies are not worth bringing to large 0.0 fleet fights and i stand by this opinion although i have seen the more reasonable posters claim they can "decloaking titans". Any player in eve, even a 1-2 month old noob should be able to fly and afford a cruiser and if he cannot then the alliance he is in has not guided him properly in making isk or in his skill training chain as 0.0 fleet ops seem to be his choice of combat.

---

Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

Hah now you try to spin it to make it sound like you are doing those poor noobs a favour.
In actual fact you are taking those new players and introducing them to the worst aspect of EVE: Pos war.

Instead of being able to develop new connections/learn to make their way around EVE and discover the parts of this game which they ENJOY doing, you recruit the poor suckers, Propagandise them into yet another of your mindless anti-BOB smack spewing drones and drop them directly into one of the greatest meat grinders the game has ever seen: The seige of Delve.

Then you tell them that its all for their own good. That if it were not for you they would never be having so much "Fun".

I have news for you Goon drones, there are plenty of other great and fun aspects of this game and there are many other corps out there who will give you an opportunity to develop and grow, and who will not be using you as pure cannon fodder to fuel their own overblown Ego's. People who will really teach you skills and not simply that numbers are the best tactic(untrue in case you missed it).

Learn to think for yourselves. I know this may be heresy to your high command but believe me, there is more to EVE than being someone else's puppet.
There are more enjoyable things to do than being lagged to hell and back every time you go into battle.

Territorial warfare is not the most Important or the only part of EVE. It is only one of this games many many aspects. In fact for all the anti-elitism the Goons seem to propagate, claiming space is the most elitist act EVE has to offer.
Think on that next time you are staring at a black screen after jumping into an overloaded system.

---

Originally by: Sarwaka Foehammer

---

Edited by: Sarwaka Foehammer on 09/03/2008 14:19:45
Back on topic, I was merely informing the OP that his accusation of BOB being the cause of all the Lag in Delve is, to put it bluntly, claptrap.

Although I quite enjoyed my little rant Marakor took the ball and ran with it...

I look forward to more Goon spindoctors stepping up to the plate to tell their poor sucker newbies how lucky they are to be having such a great time waiting for the grid to load.

Hang in there guys, tonight might be the night YOU uncloak a Titan.

---

Originally by: Jonny 101

---

I don't know what irritates me the most Hungo, that you stole your forum sig from my friend or that you're obviously ignorant about the politics and power of eve.

Smashkill beat ra? Smashkill couldn't defeat a bag of soggy apples without a 10:1 numerical advantage.

---

Originally by: Kalvin Braunberg

---

Here, i'll explain how fleet fights work, since you obviously have no idea.

You see, when 2 gangs of BS's encounter each other, they generally don't act like its the civil war, stand in two lines accross from each other, and shoot until everyone is dead.

Once a ship starts taking damage, they leave and come back. There is this tactis in this game that some people like to call "tackling". It's where smaller/faster ships warp disrupt and web the bigger meaner ships so they can't leave as soon as they start taking damage.

You see, when a ship is "tackled" and about to die, the smaller ships of the enemy gang attempt to kill the tackler so the large ship can escape. Thus if your in the roll of a "tackler" you may wish to fly something disposable because you will likely die.

This makes a frigate, which is fast, agile, and cheap, an ideal ship for the roll of "tackler". This also in turn makes new players, just learning how to pvp ideal candidates for this roll, as it teaches you alot, and believe it or not, can be very fun.

---

Originally by: Jonny 101

---

I don't know what irritates me the most Hungo, that you stole your forum sig from my friend or that you're obviously ignorant about the politics and power of eve.

Smashkill beat ra? Smashkill couldn't defeat a bag of soggy apples without a 10:1 numerical advantage.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2008 16:17:15
WOW your so knowledgeable it makes me want to ask a couple of other questions and point out a few things about 0.0 warfare you did not mention or do not know.

1. Considering we were talking about large scale fleet battles and everybody (apart from you it seems) is well aware of the lag/desynch issues that are part and parcel of such fights. And that the individuals involved in these fights hardly ever see what is killing them or have the ability to activate modules or warp anywhere a lot of the time "tackling " as you call it is hardly necessary and certainly not by a t1 friggie.


2. There are ships in EVE called "interdictors" and these ships are every so very clever you see, as they can actually drop something called a "interdiction" bubble and this "interdiction" bubble does the same thing as lots and lots of those "tacklers" without the need to bring 50-100 of them and adding to the lag/desynch so leaving room for worthwhile ships.

3. As has been mentioned before even a noob can fly a e-war fitted cruiser if the alliance he is in teaches him how to earn isk and train the correct skills, instead of exploiting his naivety and using him as lag/cannon fodder

4. Now given that, 1 lag in large fleet fights makes individual "tackling" useless as you never know what ship is gonna actually show up on your overview. 2 that very few "interdictors" are needed to "tackle" the entire hostile fleet without adding massively to the lag. And 3 that a properly trained and educated noob can fly a e-war or standard cruiser with even the same tackle if he realy wishes but with considerably more dps and e-war, and so i still personaly feel t1 frigs are worthless in large fleet ops unless its your aim to cause lagg.



PS: Although i found your attitude a bit sarcastic and patronizing and so decided to follow suit in my reply at least you actually attempted to post a detailed opinion on the subject instead of the standard one line insult.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2008 16:17:15


WOW your so knowledgeable it makes me want to ask a couple of other questions and point out a few things about 0.0 warfare you did not mention or do not know.

1. Considering we were talking about large scale fleet battles and everybody (apart from you it seems) is well aware of the lag/desynch issues that are part and parcel of such fights. And that the individuals involved in these fights hardly ever see what is killing them or have the ability to activate modules or warp anywhere a lot of the time "tackling " as you call it is hardly necessary and certainly not by a t1 friggie.


2. There are ships in EVE called "interdictors" and these ships are every so very clever you see, as they can actually drop something called a "interdiction" bubble and this "interdiction" bubble does the same thing as lots and lots of those "tacklers" without the need to bring 50-100 of them and adding to the lag/desynch so leaving room for worthwhile ships.

3. As has been mentioned before even a noob can fly a e-war fitted cruiser if the alliance he is in teaches him how to earn isk and train the correct skills, instead of exploiting his naivety and using him as lag/cannon fodder

4. Now given that, 1 lag in large fleet fights makes individual "tackling" useless as you never know what ship is gonna actually show up on your overview. 2 that very few "interdictors" are needed to "tackle" the entire hostile fleet without adding massively to the lag. And 3 that a properly trained and educated noob can fly a e-war or standard cruiser with even the same tackle if he realy wishes but with considerably more dps and e-war, and so i still personaly feel t1 frigs are worthless in large fleet ops unless its your aim to cause lagg.



PS: Although i found your attitude a bit sarcastic and patronizing and so decided to follow suit in my reply at least you actually attempted to post a detailed opinion on the subject instead of the standard one line insult.

---

Originally by: nlewis

---

jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

---

Originally by: Dyson

---

Okay bud, two things you really don't seem to be picking up;

1; If everyone in goonfleet could fly useful ships into the fight we'd still crash the node. We just have too many people willing to fight.

2; Lag isn't caused by us. Lag is caused by CCP's lack of proper server coding/dedicated resources. If CCP either created a hard cap to the number of people in the system or had the proper hardware/software, we wouldn't be having this discussion (Possibly caused by the clients and the lack of documentation on what is the acceptable hardware to run during certain fleet battles). If the first solution was used we probably wouldn't even be playing because the scope of EVE is fairly attractive.

---

Originally by: marakor

---

Edited by: marakor on 09/03/2008 16:49:13
If you are saying that a lot your members cannot fly useful ships (cruisers with e-war or if you insist tackle) you should speak to the ppl in this very thread let alone this forum who brag about your training policies for new members. I also suggest you get your training policies revised tbqh.

And if as you say you have too many members willing to fight they should be more than willing to fly a ship that can actually fight and cause a reasonable amount of dmg like at least cruiser.

I agree with you CCP is responsible for the fact the game has lag, but throwing useless ships into a fight that you know is gonna lag instead of using useful ships (with good/better dps and e-war) is a choice that is not made by ccp it is made by your FC's who accept and even encourage the usage of worthless frigs in gang or your alliance leaders who supply them for such ops and also by your members who do not know better or do not care.

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Originally by: Dyson

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Originally by: marakor

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If you are saying that a lot your members cannot fly useful ships (cruisers with e-war or if you insist tackle) you should speak to the ppl in this very thread let alone this forum who brag about your training policies for new members. I also suggest you get your training policies revised tbqh.

And if as you say you have too many members willing to fight they should be more than willing to fly a ship that can actually fight and cause a reasonable amount of dmg like at least cruiser.

I agree with you CCP is responsible for the fact the game has lag, but throwing useless ships into a fight that you know is gonna lag instead of using useful ships (with good/better dps and e-war) is a choice that is not made by ccp it is made by your FC's who accept and even encourage the usage of worthless frigs in gang or your alliance leaders who supply them for such ops and also by your members who do not know better or do not care.

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That is a totally different debate. I am accepting your concept and challenging your idea that somehow flying better ships would reduce our participation. It wouldn't.

And god forbid we allow our membership to participate instead of banning them from showing up simply because they cannot fly ships of a decent caliber, which leads back into my first point; If they did have good ships and showed up, we'd still kill the node. CCP is really at fault for failing to see the scope of which these fights could reach, especially when they envisioned giant space ****s that kill entire fleets.

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