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Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.11 03:06:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Saffin
Anyone that already has the skils has lost nothing as they have had the benefit of them, they have lost there advantage going forward but have had the advantage for a while not lost out completely.
Wrong on so many levels. You want something for nothing. Not going to work out that way. You give everyone 5's across the board.Then you need to refund the points put into the skills. Thats the only fair way to do it.
I lose a lot by doing it the way you want it done. I took the time to laern the skills. I took the effort to wait through that grind. Now you want to come along and say I will lose nothing for the time I invested and you didn't? This isn't WoW, you aren't going to get something for nothing here.
Currently I see nothing wrong with the way the system is and whats the point in messing with it after 5 years? |
Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.11 04:36:00 -
[2]
Originally by: George Techeye
CCP has stated that they regret putting learning skills in as they are essentially nothing more than a fun tax.
This is a falsehood. CCP did not say that. Show me where in the forums CCP said that. That was one Devs opinion. 1 person does not make a whole. So stop throwing around this false point. |
Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:08:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Cromzor
Edited by: Cromzor on 11/03/2008 17:45:17
As a new player myself I found the learning skill grind to be horrible. I spent a month grinding my teeth thinking to myself "I could be having fun but instead I'm training learning skills". When I reached level 4 with them, I started having much much more fun because I could train what I wanted.
And here's the problem. Do you not understand how little those learning skills help you when you 1st start the game? On rank 1 skills they do jack for training time. It's only when you start training the really high levels that they come into play.
To many people think they are going to get a payoff for the time right then and there. WRONG!. You spent a month sitting in station doing nothing to save a few hours? WTH were you thinking?
No wonder you want to get ride of them. You're doing the entire thing bass ackwards and get burned out because of it.
Learning skills are fine the way they are. Learn to plan your skill times. A little forthought on your part goes a long way in this game. |
Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.12 01:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cromzor
Your statement is confusing to me. If I train 24 days to start doing lvl 3 missions,learning skills give the EXACT same benifit as you training 24 days for BS5. The learning skills still work on faster training skills. The sooner you train them, the more effect they have. I was simply trying to maximize my SP/hour return. To do that, you have to train them as early as possible.
I didn't sit in a station, I mined to make isk for implants.
Also, I wasn't saying to get rid of them, I was just suggesting new player are able to train 2 toons at once for a while like many older players got to do.
Okay lets break it down a little more.
With say 4/3 in ALL the learning skills, how much time do you save training a rank 1 or 2 skill?
Little to none. You might save a couple hours time in overall training from 0 to level 5 in said skill at rank 1
Now say you have learning at 5/5 in all skills. How much time do you save in training a rank 1 skill vs. say a rank 14 skill?
The difference is massive at rank 14 and pitiful at rank 1.
So training up all those learning skills in the 1st month is a waste of time that you should have spent training you basic ship skills to get you flying and fighting better.
Thats why you are doing it bass ackwards.
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Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.12 02:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Malcanis
Your understanding of maths makes kitty cry.
It's called exaggerating. Sometimes you have to make wild statements to get the fine print accross in the contract.
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Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.14 01:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cutie Chaser
On the other hand you can train them when you start. This is the correct, logical choice. Of course then you end up feeling like a fool because you're flying a rinky-dink frigate while giant, majestic battleships buzz around you. Of course knowing that at the 1 year mark you'll be ahead is precious little comfort.
There is the point!!! 1 YEAR LATER It takes a year of playing time for the moment you stop training those learning skills to get the time spent back! So is that really worth the investment? 1 year? for sitting in the station for 2 weeks doing nothing but staring at the docking ring the entire time?
If you were to go to 5/5 before you went out and played you would spend roughly 6 months docked and it would take you 3+ years to gain that time back.
Your 1st month should be spent learning things you need today, not what you need tomarrow. 4/3 learning is really not going to make much difference in how fast you train a rank 1 skill, yet people still sit there and think it will.
Spend you 1st month flying around, see what you can see and learn your basic support skills. Stop wasting your time on learning the learning skills. Get in a good ship, learn to make ISK, get in a good alliance. When you have met all this, then work on the learning skills. Otherwise you are just wasting your time.
I'm done trying to explain the folly of the "Train your Learning skills 1st" ideology. If you're too dense to see how long it is to the payoff, you really do need to suffer.  |
Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.14 04:03:00 -
[7]
Sherifffruitfly & Vincent Lionhart,
Did either one of you actually read what was written or do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
As stands right now, it looks as if neather one of you got the point or you just didn't bother to read past the 1st paragraph.
Typical European elitism, founded on the principles of false superiority and an over inflated sense of your own self worth. |
Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.14 05:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Qarth on 14/03/2008 05:45:28
Originally by: Vincent Lionhart
For the record, I DID infact read the first paragraph. It translated to "whine whine whine". It was a good whine though. There were some valid points, but I still see training skills as a way of seeing who's dedicated enough to stay and who's not.
There is Your problem. Try reading the whole thing next time and you'll not come off as an elitest ass.
You inability to read the entire post makes you look like an utter fool right now.
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Qarth
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Posted - 2008.03.14 06:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cyran Martellus
I'm a new player, and I really don't feel the Learning Skills need removal at all.
In fact, I'd be disappointed if they were.
Nobody forces you to learn ALL the Learning skills at once. Learn the ones you need to get the Technical Skills you want - faster, if you like. Besides, as a starting pilot, why train a learning skill right of when early "big difference" skills like Afterburner (for example) can be trained to usefulness in a couple of minutes, regardless of Learning SP? Just train them as you need them.
In a day you're a viable Mission Runner. In a week you're a fairly dangerous PVPer. In two weeks you're well on your way to a Mining fortune, if you so desire, and potentially a solid addition to any Corp gang or fleet. That doesn't change regardless of whether Learning skills are in or not. So why remove depth? Depth is good, and increasingly rare in this genre. Which is why EVE attracted me in the first place - it's the deepest game I've ever played. Am I overwhelmed by it? Absolutely - and that's a great feeling and a challenge like no other.
Threads like this remind me of the folks that returned the original Final Fantasy because: "I didn't know there was reading in it."
Exactly the point I'm trying to drive home to people. Learning skills are for later in the game, not the begining of the game. |
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