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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:57:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Wu Jiun
However this is just display of good teamwork. I mean you will still need tacklers at the gate for the bigger stuff. As for sniping small ships well you could do that way out of sentry range anyway for like years. Nobody complained and as a mostly lowsec player i can assure you this tactic is pretty dead since wtz. Havent seen a gate sniper for like yeah well like since wtz.
The tactic wasn't for a gate sniper... use a real sniper for that. It was for roaming.
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
KD.Fluffy
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:01:00 -
[62]
The new mega pulse apoc completely outclasses medium range megathron. Guess I know which skills to start training next
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Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:01:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Wu Jiun
However this is just display of good teamwork. I mean you will still need tacklers at the gate for the bigger stuff. As for sniping small ships well you could do that way out of sentry range anyway for like years. Nobody complained and as a mostly lowsec player i can assure you this tactic is pretty dead since wtz. Havent seen a gate sniper for like yeah well like since wtz.
The tactic wasn't for a gate sniper... use a real sniper for that. It was for roaming.
-Liang
Sniper apoc in roaming gangs that fights in gate sentry range for killing nanofaggots in low sec who dont agress first due to sentries. Do you both sit and look at each other?
Is that right?
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:39:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Scout McAlt Sniper apoc in roaming gangs that fights in gate sentry range for killing nanofaggots in low sec who dont agress first due to sentries. Do you both sit and look at each other?
Is that right? Does this ship even hit nanofaggots due to tracking and weapon sig?
A few points: - Nanoships are not epidemic in lowsec - but BS's, Drakes, and Myrms are - Inties/nanoships don't engage on gates unless you have GCC - The Apoc can sentries tank plenty long enough at 100km if it needed to - and it's virtually immune to most return fire - Given sufficient range, yes the Apoc can track nanoships - and that range isn't nearly as far as you think it is - You don't always have GCC or -5 sec (and not all pirates have negative sec anyway)
It seems like you're just trolling, but I did choose to give you the benefit of the doubt.
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Riaz Qaadir
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Posted - 2008.03.11 19:30:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
No it is you that fails.
1. Scorch is long range ammo for short range turrets wich is the best kind of T2 ammo.
2. Long range ammo for long range weapons sucks.
3. Your comparison is flawed in many ways
4. You fail at EFT warrioring
5. You fail at sisi warrioring
6. You fail eve.
7. Cancel your account please.
Who died and made you god since QOTSA? You were alright back then but my god you've developed into a right selfrichous ****. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.
Here you go with t1 ammo.
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Am I missing something or did you not bother to rig the HACs but rigged the Apoc to "prove" your point?
Add rigs to the HACs to make up for the perceived short-comings and then see.
Also, while you're at it, setup a rigged Mega and Rokh and see how they compare.
Not saying you are right or wrong as I honestly have no clue but it does look like you are stacking the deck to "prove" your point.
I haven't rigged them with weapon rigs as they don't have the fitting to (as I said in the first post). So theres whole range of rigs you could put in there, but nothing that would really help the offensive capabilities (maybe sensor rigs).
Rigged Mega/Rokh with blasters or rails? With blasters a purely theoretical fit for Rokh of neutrons with null, 3 optimal rigs and 2 TE + TC doesn't get past 40km. Rails even with multiple tracking modules doesn't get close, less dps, less tracking and harder fitting with the rigs.
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Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:00:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 11/03/2008 20:01:24
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir Who died and made you god since QOTSA? You were alright back then but my god you've developed into a right selfrichous ****. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.
Here you go with t1 ammo.
Eagle does more DPS than apoc at 150km which is battleship sniper range? Whats this chart trying to show, since Aurora Zealot does more DPS at 100km?
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:09:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir
Who died and made you god since QOTSA? You were alright back then but my god you've developed into a right selfrichous ****. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.
Here you go with t1 ammo.
Did you use range rigs on the hacs aswell?
So youre one of the old QOTSA eh? Why dont you come out and post with your main then and show some QOTSA honor. Since you opened the subject...You might remember me saying back then (wich was like back in 2006) that amarr needed serious fixing and buffs. Youre prolly one of those people back then that said that wasnt true. Guess what, amarr got some fixes finally. It turns out I was the one that was right. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:17:00 -
[68]
Also he used t1 ammo not FACTION ammo (which boosts damage by 15%)
ALSO: he forgot to add higher transversal velocity (200m/s is possible to mantain w/o any speed mods)
And for guys who think that this setup is viable: Your fleet WILL have amarr, cald, gall, min ships in it. WILL you warp at 120km so your "uberpocs" will have range? And thus leave enemy in higher damage range (even enabling em to use t1 snipers)?
Or maybe you will warp at 160+ km (thus disabling t1 snipers) but then... owait: your apoc is useless.
And guess why most GOOD fleets WILL warp at 160+km: because it removes any threat from noob snipers. And "pulse apocs".
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:32:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also he used t1 ammo not FACTION ammo (which boosts damage by 15%)
ALSO: he forgot to add higher transversal velocity (200m/s is possible to mantain w/o any speed mods)
And for guys who think that this setup is viable: Your fleet WILL have amarr, cald, gall, min ships in it. WILL you warp at 120km so your "uberpocs" will have range? And thus leave enemy in higher damage range (even enabling em to use t1 snipers)?
Or maybe you will warp at 160+ km (thus disabling t1 snipers) but then... owait: your apoc is useless.
And guess why most GOOD fleets WILL warp at 160+km: because it removes any threat from noob snipers. And "pulse apocs".
Yeah hes doing alot of number manipulating to prove a point that doesnt exist. Then he tries to make me look like the bad guy. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Riaz Qaadir
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:58:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Riaz Qaadir on 11/03/2008 21:00:19
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Did you use range rigs on the hacs aswell?
No because they don't fit ffs. I've only had to say that 3 times now.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also he used t1 ammo not FACTION ammo (which boosts damage by 15%)
ALSO: he forgot to add higher transversal velocity (200m/s is possible to mantain w/o any speed mods)
And for guys who think that this setup is viable: Your fleet WILL have amarr, cald, gall, min ships in it. WILL you warp at 120km so your "uberpocs" will have range? And thus leave enemy in higher damage range (even enabling em to use t1 snipers)?
Or maybe you will warp at 160+ km (thus disabling t1 snipers) but then... owait: your apoc is useless.
And guess why most GOOD fleets WILL warp at 160+km: because it removes any threat from noob snipers. And "pulse apocs".
Your making stuff up now. 15% more damage for everything, yeah thats so biased! .
Whatever numbers used someone always says "THATS NOT REAL!!!!!" You want mwd cruiser so 2000m/s transversal with 1100m signature ? More? Less? What speed and angle are we going to say is realistic? perfect orbit? angled approach? Provide the numbers you see as realistic or don't complain about others.
Well if the setup isn't viable then there is also no viable sniper HAC setups except the Eagle as its the only one that can reach 160+km. No where have I said this is to replace proper sniper BS fleets that can hit at 200km, thats just being stupid.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yeah hes doing alot of number manipulating to prove a point that doesnt exist. Then he tries to make me look like the bad guy.
WTF? I got told use t1 ammo so I did. Its easy to sit there behind your pc going "YOUR WRONG!" and not provide any information on how to correct what you percieve as an error.
There is no manipulation, i'm not the one who started throw insults around, I answer questions asked and if you want to provide "realistic" stats feel free and i'll use them.
But hay lets just call the person whos tried to explain what people have been mentioning in various places and put real stats behind it to compare them to other ships of that range/tracking.
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BlackHorizon
Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:35:00 -
[71]
Edited by: BlackHorizon on 11/03/2008 21:37:26 This screenshot is a few weeks old, but it's what will be possible on TQ tomorrow.
Screenshot
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:36:00 -
[72]
Seriously go play goddamn game. If you are so keen try your setups. If they work i guess sooner or later every fleet will have pulsepoc's. If not... guess you are wrong.
And i can even bet that "pulseapoc" will not be popular.
As for "sniper HACs" yes only eagle is viable antisupport boat. Sometimes muninn but if you can fly both - always take eagle before muminn. Zealot is just bad and its only goot do use when you cant use anything else (nor t2 sniper BS).
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:40:00 -
[73]
Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 11/03/2008 21:37:26 This screenshot is a few weeks old, but it's what will be possible on TQ tomorrow.
Screenshot
sisi != tranq -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 11/03/2008 21:37:26 This screenshot is a few weeks old, but it's what will be possible on TQ tomorrow.
Screenshot
Ohhh so now for every "pulse apoc" the fleet will have one oneiros? Great... I think i prefer 2 snipers instead...
(and FYI yes its possible even NOW just around 160km range). No idea why people are panicking...
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FemmeFatal
Control Theory
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Posted - 2008.03.11 22:17:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 11/03/2008 21:37:26 This screenshot is a few weeks old, but it's what will be possible on TQ tomorrow.
Screenshot
Ohhh so now for every "pulse apoc" the fleet will have one oneiros? Great... I think i prefer 2 snipers instead...
(and FYI yes its possible even NOW just around 160km range). No idea why people are panicking...
I don't know if you'd take it over a tachyon fleet bs but you might consider taking it over a support hac.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 22:26:00 -
[76]
Originally by: FemmeFatal
I don't know if you'd take it over a tachyon fleet bs but you might consider taking it over a support hac.
If he can use t2 large pulses hes very close (or already has) t2 large beams. So there is absolutely NO reason for the guy to sit in pulse-lol-bs when he can fly proper sniper.
And yes - you need oneiros too: so thats 2 guys to do the job of 1 eagle.
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Riaz Qaadir
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Posted - 2008.03.11 22:32:00 -
[77]
Originally by: FemmeFatal I don't know if you'd take it over a tachyon fleet bs but you might consider taking it over a support hac.
This is the main point i'm making. If you have the choice what ship do you want? A T1 insurable sniper with more dps, alpha and range with the same if not better tracking... or a T2 sniper with lower dps, alpha and range with same if not weaker tracking. Only reason to take the HAC is the 100mm better scan res (same lock range) or the better sig+agility (but with less HP).
Personally I forsee this to be more of a specialized setup akin to "burn eden ravens" rather than widespred. A 4 man gang with 2 megapulse Apocs, a logistics and a tackler can do > 1000 dps at 200km with tracking that will worry a interceptor where traditional snipers do less DPS and less tracking.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.11 22:54:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
(and FYI yes its possible even NOW just around 160km range). No idea why people are panicking...
This. It was already possible before to get sniper range with pulses, why is it such a big deal now all of a sudden. Its not like we saw alot of 160km pulse snipers... -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.03.11 23:18:00 -
[79]
With a 200 Man fleet of Orinos boosting Blasters on a Rokh, they too can hit 200km Range. Shall we nerf blasters?
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Deux Machina
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:11:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Scout McAlt With a 200 Man fleet of Orinos boosting Blasters on a Rokh, they too can hit 200km Range. Shall we nerf blasters?
i thought a blaster rokh top ended at about 50km with officer fits and an ony?
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:25:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Deux Machina
Originally by: Scout McAlt With a 200 Man fleet of Orinos boosting Blasters on a Rokh, they too can hit 200km Range. Shall we nerf blasters?
i thought a blaster rokh top ended at about 50km with officer fits and an ony?
About 80km range with 3 of the bugged optimal rigs.
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:30:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir
Here you go with t1 ammo.
What are you shooting at that has 200 m/s transversal with 125m sig at 120km?
How about a realistic situation? How many sensor boosters are you fitting? Loading what scripts?
Can you even lock an inty before it gets to point blank range?
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Riaz Qaadir
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir
Here you go with t1 ammo.
What are you shooting at that has 200 m/s transversal with 125m sig at 120km?
How about a realistic situation? How many sensor boosters are you fitting? Loading what scripts?
Can you even lock an inty before it gets to point blank range?
Like I said early, what do you see as realistic and i'll do it? I put 200m/s as a none-mwding cruiser that isn't perfectly orbitting you. Now I could of done a mwd-ing cruiser at say 2km/s transversal and 1000m sig, would that be more acceptable?
3 sensor boosters, 2 speed 1 range = 135km and 289.1mm res.
Say a target sig of 30m = 8 seconds if it hits its mwd then sig goes up to 150m = 4 seconds.
For comparison a HAC (muninn for example) running 2 sensor boosters (1 with range script) for 138km lock and 398mm res would lock the 30m target in 6 seconds and the 150 in 3 seconds.
For a MWD ship to cover 100km in 10 seconds is 10km/s which only snaked ships can do. So I think yes you can lock anything before it gets to point blank range (or scram range).
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.12 01:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir How about YOU do the math, i've clearly stated real setups and the accurate stats.
Originally by: Dealin Blackleaf Do the math, come back and post hit chances against multiple ship classes, and then remember that it doesn't matter either way.
Hows this, we MWD out of the bubble, we warp out, we come back at our optimal and your Pulse Apoc does what exactly? Hell, we could just burn in the opposite direction until we are beyond your range (since your setup seems to lack an MWD).
And when your not ambushing the enemy? Your out of range from the start of the engagement until you explode.
Even with an MWD an enemy fleet is still going to end up out-ranging you the majority of the time making your additional couple'o'hundred DPS worthless. If this wasn't the case we'd all fly close/med-range battleships in fleet. Your trying to bring a knife to a gunfight and it just won't work on TQ.
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