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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hou
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:29:00 -
[1]
Got the need to rant a little. I've been pvping for years now and i've flown in a small pvp corp most of the time. This leads to us being outnumbered often, this is ofcourse no problem cause it leads to good fights. i have no problem whatsoever staying to fight when theres 2 more BS on teh way to help out the one im fighting. 3 bs vs me is pretty obvious but atleast itll be a fun fight.
Now lately I am being spammed by ecm, be it griffins, ecm drones or a complete falcon squad. In 4 of my 5 latest losses there was ecm involved. And the alarming fact is that it is mostly corps who call themselves pirates or 0.0 pvpers that use it. I could go on and on about the apparant low self-esteem most pirates have in the region i call home but thats not what this is about.
If one of you guys could be bothered i would like an exact and detailed explanation of why it is FUN and COOL to completly shut down your enemys offenses? This is a combat game, stopping your opponent from firing back makes it a turkeyshoot. The only argument i hear for using it is "otherwise they will use it against us".
I am all for completly removing teh feature but seeing as it would remove the caldari's last lame (or usefull as most call it) combat abilities it probably wont happen. But i would like to see some severe penaltys on the use of ecm, which means if I can not activate my mods, THEIR mods should not be working at 100% efficiency.
I am still a firm believer that electronic warfare should be a defensive thing in games like this. So I would suggest something liek ECM making ones signature radius alot smaller. It would still remove my offenses but atleast make it harder to hit me...
On the very least severely reduce the jamming chance. the idea that small ecm-drones have a jamming chance above 5% on battleships is just sad, where the **** do these universe spanning empires buy their locking systems...
Dont bring up eccm btw, if 1 eccm effectivly counters an ecm i would be surpised
. And they are just not feasable on most ships due to the need for other mods.
Dont tell me to use ecm myself, I simply refuse to use something that completly removes any kind of fun my opponent can have and any kind of respect he might have for who hes fighting with.
EItherway, that is off my chest :) tl:dr away.... |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:36:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
If one of you guys could be bothered i would like an exact and detailed explanation of why it is FUN and COOL to completly shut down your enemys offenses?
I love the way my ECM causes drones to self-destruct.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:38:00 -
[3]
if you was such a ubber "pvpr" like you claim to be.. you wouldnt make this post and fit ECCM.
try it.. it works
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This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time.
PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:39:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/03/2008 17:38:59
Originally by: Hou
GAnd the alarming fact is that it is mostly corps who call themselves pirates or 0.0 pvpers that use it. I could go on and on about the apparant low self-esteem most pirates have in the region i call home but thats not what this is about.
Quote:
If one of you guys could be bothered i would like an exact and detailed explanation of why it is FUN and COOL to completly shut down your enemys offenses? This is a combat game, stopping your opponent from firing back makes it a turkeyshoot.
That's the point. Seriously.
-Liang
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Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hou
This is a combat game
Yes, and combat is about defeating your opponent. You can kill them with weapons, you can neutralize them with EWar, or you can drain their cap and leave them hanging useless in space. All of these are methods of defeating your opponent in combat.
It sounds to me like you and your gang need to start fitting to handle ECM boats (i.e. drones, FoF, or some EWar of your own).
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Hou
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:58:00 -
[6]
Nowhere i claim to be a uber pirate, i lose way to much ships and am way to poor for that. and no eccm does not work. Even with 2 fitted I manage to get jammed. dont know if its karma or not but it is not worth sacrificing a medslot for.
And i KNOW the point of ecm is to shut down your opponents offenses. Now tell me where the fun in completly removing any threat is? |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hou
And i KNOW the point of ecm is to shut down your opponents offenses. Now tell me where the fun in completly removing any threat is?
Right here. I'm reading it. :)
-Liang
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Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Asestorian
Domination.
Scorched Earth.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:00:00 -
[8]
You need to remember that there are different types of combat.
There's combat for sport, in which case people want to try and be as equal as possible and use pure skill to decide the winner.
Then there's real combat, which is what EVE is based on. In real combat, you try to gain as much of an advantage over your opponent as possible in order to minimise any damage you take.
You should also consider that ECM actually allows smaller gangs to defeat larger gangs, by attempting to nullify the number advantage. You should try it out!
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MOZO
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Cogswin Iannyen
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:11:00 -
[9]
Someone needs to read The Art of War.
1-18
All Warfare is Deception.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:14:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Trevor Warps on 11/03/2008 18:14:34
I. Hate. ECM.
Lame. Period.
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AndrewRyan
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hou
Nowhere i claim to be a uber pirate, i lose way to much ships and am way to poor for that. and no eccm does not work. Even with 2 fitted I manage to get jammed. dont know if its karma or not but it is not worth sacrificing a medslot for.
And i KNOW the point of ecm is to shut down your opponents offenses. Now tell me where the fun in completly removing any threat is?
Play WoW much? this is on the level of some kind of fair arena fighting with wizards and pixies.
In EVE pvp victory and survival come first the fight being fun is just a bonus, plus for many including myself electronic and cap warfare makes the game more tactical instead of just guns and missiles and this is more fun.
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A Man chooses, a slave obeys. |
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:16:00 -
[12]
stop feeding the trolls, its obvious here come on guys
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
stop feeding the trolls, its obvious here come on guys
Yeah.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:37:00 -
[14]
Caldari need to do something in PvP.
Gallente bring speed and DPS
Minmatar bring speed, DPS and webs
Amarr bring
Caldari bring ECM (unless a torp Raven which can now bring DPS)
And before someone says it, being good at PvE does not excuse sucking at PvP. The best current PvE ship shoots lasers anyway. And the domi is the only ship in game that can truly AFK mission. Blahblahblahblahblah.
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Hou
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: AndrewRyan
In EVE pvp victory and survival come first the fight being fun is just a bonus, plus for many including myself electronic and cap warfare makes the game more tactical instead of just guns and missiles and this is more fun.
Eh... Fun is just a bonus? when did people forget that this is a bloody game. why do we even want it to recreate real combat if it reduces fun to a bonus... Wtf much?
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Hou
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Posted - 2008.03.11 18:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Asestorian
You should also consider that ECM actually allows smaller gangs to defeat larger gangs, by attempting to nullify the number advantage. You should try it out!
I'll risk being accused of arrogance, My corp regularly engages larger gangs and wins. We sometimes lose, we more often than not bail... but ecm is not at all neccesary to win outnumbered fights...
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.03.11 19:26:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Dont bring up eccm btw, if 1 eccm effectivly counters an ecm i would be surpised
An ECCM module doubles your sensor strength. If you're getting jammed by some guy using 4 or 5 ECM modules and you're using ZERO ECCM modules ****YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN WHATSOEVER****
E-war is supposed to be a viable and powerful tool that keep encounters from simply being determined by who brought the most gank to the fight.
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Hou
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Posted - 2008.03.11 19:52:00 -
[18]
Unfortunatly fights are now decided by who brings the most ecm it seems.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hou
Unfortunatly fights are now decided by who brings the most ecm it seems.
So bring more ECM. Adapt or die, this is the way of warfare.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:07:00 -
[20]
Buy falcon alt.
???
Profit.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Joe Shooter
Thunderstruck.
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hou
Unfortunatly fights are now decided by who brings the most ecm it seems.
Yeah, don't you just hate it when you die to 20man falcon gangs 
Seriously though, if you're just bringing a gang with no support/anti-support then you really shouldn't be complaining.
/me pats his bag of semi-full troll food, the night is young.
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ThUnDeRsTrUcK |
Zephirz
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:08:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Zephirz on 11/03/2008 20:07:49
So what would you rather have than? a fight in which everyone jams eachother, using 1 type of mod, or a fight in which everyone actually fights...??
This guy is speakin thruth tbh...
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Zephirz
[Cr-Se]
Founder
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General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.03.11 20:16:00 -
[23]
Edited by: General Coochie on 11/03/2008 20:17:55
You are like the "warriors" and other dps classes in other MMOS, that complain about classes with crowd control abilities and that healers ruin PvP, because they, healed the guy/controlled you, making you loose the kill.
Its just another kind of warfare then dps and tank, it gives a game like this more depth. Its what make you rely on mates in well setup gangs to be on top of the game. most ppl consider this fun, being in groups cleverly setup to handle most things that come their way. A DPS battleship is more of a core ship then the ECM ship. Just like the dps class vs healers/crowd controllers. You can't go anywhere without dps. The fact that crowd controllers and/or healers counter dps is just natural. In any successful MP game like this, there should be counters to anything, even dps. If dps and tank would always be on top of the game it would be a way different game, then we could toss classes, factions and variety in ships on the window.
I can agree that ECM is a bit overused at the moment, but its because the other EW isn't on par which they should IMO.
Personally I think if you wanna bring it down to pure shooting tanking, I activate my modules you activate yours, we see how it goes after 2min, then I rather play some shoot em up game/fps. Like counterstike etc. Of course 1v1s in EvE are fun. Just as in other games.
Also do you think it would make a difference if there were 3 BS with pilots with same SP as you attacked your BS, or 2 of them being in falcons? No you still loose. You still get owned hard. Having the ability to lock while being owned might feel better but you are in no way in a better situation.
Now EvE is a bit different here, the 2 other pilots could be in blackbirds being just a few weeks old. but THAT is what makes EvE what it is even new pilots are viable to a gang. The ppl that played for 2 years can't simply go about and own everybody like in other games. And there is always a counter to something.
The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie) |
Thelonius Rat
Caldari
MDK Syndicate
Evolution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:06:00 -
[24]
Solution: Bring a ship with lots of mids but enough lows to have a reasonably armour buffer tank (for example, the celestis). Stick an ECCM or two in the mids, then fill the rest with projected ECCM. High slots can be anything, but try not to direct too much attention to yourself; possibly a nos or two so you can run everything. If anyone in your gang gets jammed, simply ECCM them.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:12:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/03/2008 21:13:20
Originally by: Thelonius Rat
Solution: Bring a ship with lots of mids but enough lows to have a reasonably armour buffer tank (for example, the celestis). Stick an ECCM or two in the mids, then fill the rest with projected ECCM. High slots can be anything, but try not to direct too much attention to yourself; possibly a nos or two so you can run everything. If anyone in your gang gets jammed, simply ECCM them.
Strategy? In my EVE?
GTFO.
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MalVortex
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hou
Nowhere i claim to be a uber pirate, i lose way to much ships and am way to poor for that. and no eccm does not work. Even with 2 fitted I manage to get jammed. dont know if its karma or not but it is not worth sacrificing a medslot for.
And i KNOW the point of ecm is to shut down your opponents offenses. Now tell me where the fun in completly removing any threat is?
You already said in your OP you have no idea how ECCM works and don't fit it. Clearly, EVE hates you, and your whiny, ignorant trolling is why the ECCM you don't fit fails to save you from a well prepared gang.
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Niffetin
Gallente
Omni Research
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:33:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Niffetin on 11/03/2008 21:33:26
Originally by: Riho
if you was such a ubber "pvpr" like you claim to be.. you wouldnt make this post and fit ECCM.
try it.. it works
Linkage
I was pretty much permajammed there, so was the 2 Rapiers with me, only one who got even the slightest chance of shooting more than 2 seconds was our Absolution.
Linkage
Here also the Blackbird kept my Abaddon (With ECCM) and my friends Typhoon (With ECCM) almost permajammed.
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Teeheee!
mematar's Video Archive |
Niffetin
Gallente
Omni Research
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hou
Unfortunatly fights are now decided by who brings the most ecm it seems.
Unfortunately the truth 
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Teeheee!
mematar's Video Archive |
MalVortex
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:39:00 -
[29]
Yes, your subjective, one time experience with ECM/ECCM definetley impacts how it actually works. Please, go through the jamming formula, look at the number of ships needing to be jammed, and then stick on some ECCMs. *Amazingly* math works, and you'll realize that in the highly unlikely possibility one scorp perma jammed your entire gang, its such a ridiculously small chance its not worth worrying about.
More likley: your gang wasn't perma-jammed, only "jammed enough to tilt the edge". Heaven forbid a specialized ship focused solely on ECM (with no DPS or tank of its own) be worth the opportunity cost of bringing a 1,000 DPS Raven (or other choice ship here).
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Hou
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:40:00 -
[30]
Ty niffetin, I lost ships to similar situations. the one that inspired this post was being jammed several cycles in a row on 1 side of the gate by a griffin and than 2 cycles in a row on the ther side by a set of light ecm drones (jumped out in low hull). buibai armageddon.
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