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Hou
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Posted - 2008.03.11 21:47:00 -
[31]
The fact that you Can be PERMAjammed at all, by anything, ever is what annoys me most. for all i care just make it so you cant be jammed 2 cycles in a row. tho i suspect a sudden rise in dampner sales. 20 seconds is such a ridiculous long time in small gang warfare...
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Mahn AlNouhm
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.03.11 23:03:00 -
[32]
If there wasn't an effective counter, I would be right there with you, but you can't moan that you're getting jammed when you refuse to fit a counter because it'll "gimp" your uber dps fit. Fact: ECCM works and it works well. If you don't want to be jammed, fit it. Sure, you could still get really unlucky, but luck cuts both ways. I fly a falcon, and there have been plenty of occasions when members of my gang were put in jeopardy because I got serially unlucky with my jammers. Adapt, bro.
Additionally, I don't know where you got the idea that pirates are somehow being disingenuous by utilizing ECM. Pirates don't play fair. We don't go out looking for duels, we go out looking for fights we can win and win decisively. Our goal is pvp for profit. If we discover an advantage, you better believe that we'll leverage it for all its worth. ECM is a force multiplier. As a general rule, we fly small, so the advantage it provides is invaluable. Our goal is to take down the largest target possible, with minimum risk to ourselves.
Lastly, this:
 Quote:
If one of you guys could be bothered i would like an exact and detailed explanation of why it is FUN and COOL to completly shut down your enemys offenses?
is exactly why its fun. In addition to shutting down an opponents direct damage offensive capabilites, we also disable its projected logistic and defensive capabilities, too. From experience, I can tell you, there are few things in game that are cooler than perma-jamming a faction fit battleship, orbiting at range with a nasty gang at the ready, waiting for the ransom to fall through so it can tear it to shreds. Its especially cool when you consider that your gang wouldn't have stood a chance against the target if you hadn't been there to shut it down.
ECM is ******* cool.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:31:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 12/03/2008 00:31:43
yep, eccm works
but it's still lame... falcon + cloak + warp.stab @120km was the worst i've seen so far. it was just by sheer omgwtf-tiny luck, that it didn't get through to the scimitar's sensors.
i just wish all the other EW stuff would get an optimal bonus aswell. imho that's the most striking imbalance; racial jammers can reach as far as 135km + falloff (2x falloff?).
scorpion, ok. 100+km is a "battleship range"
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:34:00 -
[34]
All this "permajam" spam *****s me up. With out a timeframe that word means absolutely nothing. If you get jammed once and then die in that cycle.... OMG PERMAJAMMED!
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
StainLessStealRat
Caldari
Firman AB
101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:53:00 -
[35]
If they remove ECM then you remove the only half good solo PvP Caldari cruiser in the game the Black bird not even half good, usable would be a better word.
OP asks not to mention ECCM so ill mention 2 other counters 18km falloff FoF missiles and these new rarely used things called drones.
I solo PvP in a BB and i have the most limited targets to pick from than any other race out there and even with the extra turrent the Moa is cr4p for PvP.
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Sola Sun
Jita Trade Services
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:59:00 -
[36]
Players dont mind dieing, they mind dieing disabled.
Same arguments led to dampener nerf.
If you remember that time, each ship with 2 spare mid slots just equipped 2 dampeners and 2-3 dampener rigs, as a year ago 1-2 multispectral ECMs were fit on almost everything.
In current implementation, when ECM "hits", it brakes all current locks, and reduces maximum number of locked targets to 0.
What if CCP will make a backup ECCM device rise this limit to 1 target, so being jammed will break existing target locks instantly, but allow to start locking 1 target immediately... maybe this can change so annoying "cant do anything but watch" situations.
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Sinnbad Mayhem
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Posted - 2008.03.12 01:41:00 -
[37]
I have yet to see a fight where ECM rendered all ships useless. Unless we are talking about 1on1? Which rarely happens.
Nowadays, if their fleet has ECM and yours doesn't then I guess you better get a better fleet....and better intel.
I am going to take a closer look at our killboard, but I really dont see alot of ECM ships running around ganking ppl. Sounds like you had a bit of bad luck with better prepared opponents.
Learn from your experience and adapt. C'est la EVE.
S&M |
GateScout
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Posted - 2008.03.12 01:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hou
Dont bring up eccm btw, if 1 eccm effectivly counters an ecm i would be surpised
Maybe you should learn how ECM works before ranting.
ECM, nano, <insert current ***** session>, etc. You have not brought up anything unique to this argument.
Every time I've died, I've been scrammed.... Should we remove warp disruptors?
The last two times I've died, I've died to gate camps.. Should we make gate camping impossible?
Why don't we remove logistic ships as well?
Come up with a decent argument, and maybe we'll listen.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.12 02:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Riho
if you was such a ubber "pvpr" like you claim to be.. you wouldnt make this post and fit ECCM.
try it.. it works
No, it doesn't.
Bellum Eternus
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.12 02:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Quote:
If one of you guys could be bothered i would like an exact and detailed explanation of why it is FUN and COOL to completly shut down your enemys offenses?
I love the way my ECM causes drones to self-destruct.
Drones are useless once the ship jamming you is more than 60-80km away. I usually jam my targets at around 220-240km. Fail more please.
Bellum Eternus
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Bellum Eternus
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Posted - 2008.03.12 02:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hou
<ecm rant>
Yes, I have made many posts about the same subject. And they sound just like yours. I can't stand ECM. It's boring. All the carebear losers use it as a crutch. Particularly antipirates.
Just the other day a group engaged us with not just one, not just two, but FOUR Falcons. So naturally we deployed five Falcons, and everyone sat around jamming each other. ECM sucks.
The best defense against ECM is more ECM. ECCM is garbage, as one best named ECCM won't keep you from getting jammed, and it just wastes a slot. Better to just make a ship dedicated to jamming other ECM ships.
Alas, I've given up complaining about it. Now I just require all members of the corp to be able to fly a max skilled Falcon. The plan is working wonderfully. Now we always have more than enough Falcon pilots, and rarely are we without at least two or three at any given moment. Sure, it cuts into our DPS, but so what? You don't need DPS when you have a fleet full of ECM.
Bellum Eternus
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What Trigger
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Posted - 2008.03.13 04:20:00 -
[42]
Ok so if ECM was removed from the game would you be willing to remove things like these for eg,
Neauts
Sensor Damps
each one of those can leave a ship rendered completly usless.
And for the fun of using ecm, well its not that fun untill people like you complain generally you dont get many points on the killboards for it and my reason for using it is to keep as many of our fleet ships alive as long as possible.
Fun - not really
Teamwork - yes
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Eardianm
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Posted - 2008.03.13 06:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Hou
<ecm rant>
Yes, I have made many posts about the same subject. And they sound just like yours. I can't stand ECM. It's boring. All the carebear losers use it as a crutch. Particularly antipirates.
Just the other day a group engaged us with not just one, not just two, but FOUR Falcons. So naturally we deployed five Falcons, and everyone sat around jamming each other. ECM sucks.
The best defense against ECM is more ECM. ECCM is garbage, as one best named ECCM won't keep you from getting jammed, and it just wastes a slot. Better to just make a ship dedicated to jamming other ECM ships.
Alas, I've given up complaining about it. Now I just require all members of the corp to be able to fly a max skilled Falcon. The plan is working wonderfully. Now we always have more than enough Falcon pilots, and rarely are we without at least two or three at any given moment. Sure, it cuts into our DPS, but so what? You don't need DPS when you have a fleet full of ECM.
I was going to make a post about eccm usefulness, which I have had good luck with (usually fitting a low and mid slot), but...this, really. Unless you've setup your whole gang with eccm backup (and greatly reducing overall usefulness), ecm-boats in those numbers are going to rain on your parade. And I do feel for the OP, in the fights that you are already outnumbered and just going for the challenge/lulz, and they still bring enough ewar to shutdown a fleet, when their win was inevitable to begin with. But, if it saves one of their ships...shrug. Can't blame them.
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Gorefacer
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:08:00 -
[44]
Can't say I agree. I like how you worded your argument in that you don't find ECM a fun game mechanic rather than it being overpowered or something to that effect.
I can see where your coming from and have had gripes with other games that had similar combat countermeasures.
You don't like it and think it being removed would improve your gameplay, unfortunately I don't think you are part of the majority so you'll most likely have to suck it up.
I think this same type of argument is the only solid one against nano-ships as well, wish more people stated it in these terms.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:09:00 -
[45]
Time to introduce specialized projected ECCM ships that have no weapon hardpoints but are immune to jamming 
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Thendementhord
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:39:00 -
[46]
look at my sig image :P
happy whining...
Do you want some blueprints?
1000 run exploration probe prints for sale! |
Terraform
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:00:00 -
[47]
I am a frequent ECM-user (been flying blackbird for ages). It's true that ECM is powerful, I think we've established that, but how about boosting ECCM instead of nerfing? haven't people had enough of nerfs?
I really and truly believe the problem lies in the ECCM modules not being powerful enough, not the ECM being too powerful.
Whenever people see something they don't like they scream "NERF!" almost immediately, i suggest a boost instead, makes the users of ECCM happy, and doesn't screw over gamebalance by nerfing the keymodules for the dedicated ships (ECM).
Just my idea, because I have had enough nerfs!
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:29:00 -
[48]
Sigh. ECCM works. ECM ships are thin as paper. Do the math.
If you're still having problems, take a mindlinked Eos with the ECCM gang module along. The Falcons will have a very bad (and short) day.
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Bellum Eternus
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Terraform
I am a frequent ECM-user (been flying blackbird for ages). It's true that ECM is powerful, I think we've established that, but how about boosting ECCM instead of nerfing? haven't people had enough of nerfs?
I really and truly believe the problem lies in the ECCM modules not being powerful enough, not the ECM being too powerful.
Whenever people see something they don't like they scream "NERF!" almost immediately, i suggest a boost instead, makes the users of ECCM happy, and doesn't screw over gamebalance by nerfing the keymodules for the dedicated ships (ECM).
Just my idea, because I have had enough nerfs!
I've always said this tbh. IMO best named ECCM module should increase your sensor strength by about 4-500%. The only problem here is that ECCM would make probing ineffective the way it is currently designed, so the logical answer is to simply remove ECCM from the probing equation.
Bellum Eternus
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