Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 18:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vokradacka wrote:BTW: can someone explain .... Why short range missile weapons (mid+large) have bigger PG\CPU demands than long range....??? opposite to ALL other weapon systems in game??? thats dumb , isnt it?
Because, like gallente and their "oh no you don't fit rails," problems. Caldari ships are by in large designed to force the player to pick between such obscene decadence as a MWD or short-range weapons. Amarr have similar problems with fitting guns/tank/mwd across the board and also run into cpu shortages now and then.
There's nothing unique about the fitting problems caldari, gallente, and amarr have. What's unique is that minmatar have very few ships where fitting anything is a problem. I can think of a couple t2 ships where artillery is out of the question (vaga for example) and that's about it.
Not touching weapon balance as I think that's something which has been done to death, but as far as ease of fitting ships, especially with under-developed skills, minmatar are way, way out of line. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Scope Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 18:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Finally, angel ships are NOT minmatar. By that logic, nerf gallente alongside minmatar since one of the bonuses (and the most problematic one) is a GALLENTE one.
Fail...
0/10
|
Vokradacka
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 19:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote: Because, like gallente and their "oh no you don't fit rails," problems. Caldari ships are by in large designed to force the player to pick between such obscene decadence as a MWD or short-range weapons.
???? all other races have easy fit MWD+ short range weapons only caldari have better fitting with long range + mwd..... thats why is HML drake soo popular , switch reqs.(HML-HAM) and drakes\tengus problem ill be fixed .... |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 19:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote:Vokradacka wrote:BTW: can someone explain .... Why short range missile weapons (mid+large) have bigger PG\CPU demands than long range....??? opposite to ALL other weapon systems in game??? thats dumb , isnt it? Because, like gallente and their "oh no you don't fit rails," problems. Caldari ships are by in large designed to force the player to pick between such obscene decadence as a MWD or short-range weapons. Amarr have similar problems with fitting guns/tank/mwd across the board and also run into cpu shortages now and then. There's nothing unique about the fitting problems caldari, gallente, and amarr have. What's unique is that minmatar have very few ships where fitting anything is a problem. I can think of a couple t2 ships where artillery is out of the question (vaga for example) and that's about it. Not touching weapon balance as I think that's something which has been done to death, but as far as ease of fitting ships, especially with under-developed skills, minmatar are way, way out of line.
Perception != reality.
There are many Minmatar ships that are difficult to fit even with AWU 5.
I assure you there is more than 1 ship that has trouble fitting arty, even with AWU 5. |
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 19:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cindy Marco wrote:
Perception != reality.
There are many Minmatar ships that are difficult to fit even AWU 5.
I assure you there is more than 1 ship that has trouble fitting arty, even with AWU 5.
Do tell which ones you think those are, because I am in the process of making a list myself. I assure you that "I can think of a couple t2 ships," does not allude to the idea there is only one ship that has trouble fitting artillery. There are a select few minmatar ships that can't squeeze on everything you could plausibly ask for with ease; however, that is the situation for almost every other ship out there. You cannot argue that minmatar do not have a grossly disproportionate number of ships with extremely generous fitting stats. |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 19:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote:Cindy Marco wrote:
Perception != reality.
There are many Minmatar ships that are difficult to fit even AWU 5.
I assure you there is more than 1 ship that has trouble fitting arty, even with AWU 5.
Do tell which ones you think those are, because I am in the process of making a list myself. I assure you that "I can think of a couple t2 ships," does not allude to the idea there is only one ship that has trouble fitting artillery. There are a select few minmatar ships that can't squeeze on everything you could plausibly ask for with ease; however, that is the situation for almost every other ship out there. You cannot argue that minmatar do not have a grossly disproportionate number of ships with extremely generous fitting stats.
Off the top of my head:
Typhoon , Vargur
All the T1 cruisers except the Rupture Vega
|
Ryder 3vyn
State Navy
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 19:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Why do I care about that?
It doesn't matter at all. A shield tanked Vigilant with Neutrons and a Fed Navy web trumps the Cynabal (as does the nano Gila) under nearly any condition. It's fast and can run away, but the Vigi and Gila don't have to (although they still can for the most part).
You tards can go on believing Minmatar have the best ships, and the multitude will be inclined to believe you, but when you face off against an experienced PvPer in a Gallente ship VS your Minmatar ship, odds are you will be the one warping out in a pod. |
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 19:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cindy Marco wrote: Off the top of my head:
Typhoon , Vargur
All the T1 cruisers except the Rupture Vega
Sub tier-3 cruisers, heh. That's certainly not unique. Typhoon actually not terrible hard to fit for a t1 bs(try a geddon), you just can't reliably fit arty as the majority weapon system. Vargur, ofc, specifically designed for autos much like the vaga. I would certainly agree with those two.
So off the top of our heads that's (generously) half a dozen ships. Now, I challenge you to do the same with any other race. Go ahead. I'd actually be shocked if you cold find half a dozen ships of another race that DON'T require tight fits, and/or have serious issues fitting mwd/full t2/tackle and heaven forbid you try to put a hull-sized neut on them. |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 20:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Minmatar are not the easy race to start with, they are too diversified. That would be Caldari. And it has been for many years. Thats why you see so many new players in Drakes. I believe they are still the most flown ship.
I understand what your trying to say, and I don't know about you, but I do fly all races ships.
You say the phoon is fine if you fit for short range, thats fair. But in that case the Geddon is perfectly fine when fitting for short range as well. They are both horrible to fit with long range weapons. |
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 20:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
Artillery tempest, you need AWU 5, pg rig and RCU 2 and implant to make the fit usable! Please buff tempest pgrid
[Tempest, artypest] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Reactor Control Unit II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
|
|
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 20:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cindy Marco wrote:Minmatar are not the easy race to start with, they are too diversified. That would be Caldari. And it has been for many years. Thats why you see so many new players in Drakes. I believe they are still the most flown ship.
I understand what your trying to say, and I don't know about you, but I do fly all races ships.
You say the phoon is fine if you fit for short range, thats fair. But in that case the Geddon is perfectly fine when fitting for short range as well. They are both horrible to fit with long range weapons.
That's an old fallacy that anyone intelligent can see through. The only weapon system required for most t1 minmatar fits are autos, that's it. You can pretend ships like the typhoon or full-gank cyclone are the standard, but they are not.
Drakes do fall into a similar category and have the same advantages; however caldari and amarr in general do not get this luxury. Their t1 frigates are absolutely horrendous by comparison with low-sp. Try fitting a merlin without AWU, then if you can manage it, try to remember that it is a genuine 2/2 split weapon ship, not a rifter with a single weapon system and a utility high that can potentially fit a launcher. Move up to cruisers, every minmatar cruiser can use autos/neuts. Some amarr cruisers are laser, some are drone. Some caldari are hybrid, some are launcher. Amarr and caldari do not have a cruiser who can match the rutpure for ease of fitting. etc.
As for the geddon/phoon, the key difference is you have to fit undersized pulse lasers to fit mwd/tank/tackle. You will never have to fit undersized autos or HAMs instead of torps in a typhoon. Just take a look at both ships yourself, check the popular fits, make a few fits yourself. It's fairly easy to see the diffirences. |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 21:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote:Drakes do fall into a similar category and have the same advantages; however caldari and amarr in general do not get this luxury. Their t1 frigates are absolutely horrendous by comparison with low-sp. Try fitting a merlin without AWU, then if you can manage it, try to remember that it is a genuine 2/2 split weapon ship, not a rifter with a single weapon system and a utility high that can potentially fit a launcher. Move up to cruisers, every minmatar cruiser can use autos/neuts. Some amarr cruisers are laser, some are drone. Some caldari are hybrid, some are launcher. Amarr and caldari do not have a cruiser who can match the rutpure for ease of fitting. etc.
As an additional challenge, try some unguided missile fits on Caldari missile boats (torp raven, HAM tengu which doesn't work without fitting mods, etc). |
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 21:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Phoon is going to have to either use fitting mods, downsized guns, or downsized neuts if you want MWD + non-lol tank on it. Caldari is not the easiest race to train as a noob. Drake is noob friendly, but that's basically it. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
853
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 21:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Plus 1 wrote:Phoon is going to have to either use fitting mods, downsized guns, or downsized neuts if you want MWD + non-lol tank on it. Caldari is not the easiest race to train as a noob. Drake is noob friendly, but that's basically it.
Meh, the Griffin, Blackbird, Scorp, Raven, and Tengu are all pretty noob friendly too.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Mongo Edwards
Grey Templars Ushra'Khan
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
My phoon fits just fine with 5 T2 torp launchers, 2 heavy neuts, and a medium nos. It also sports a MWD and a decent armor tank w/o any fitting mods. For fair disclosure I generally do run around with fitting implants in my head to make some of the tighter Caldari fits work.
For that Tempest fit, why do you need to have 2 large neuts on what should be a long range fit? If you drop those to a pair of medium neuts you can run them longer and they still work well for frig/cruiser defense. You also free up slots for more tank/gank. |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Plus 1 wrote:Phoon is going to have to either use fitting mods, downsized guns, or downsized neuts if you want MWD + non-lol tank on it. Caldari is not the easiest race to train as a noob. Drake is noob friendly, but that's basically it.
Missiles boats in general are noob friendly, since you don't need to train specialization skills for smaller missiles to access specialization skills for larger missiles (unlike guns).
|
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Plus 1 wrote:Phoon is going to have to either use fitting mods, downsized guns, or downsized neuts if you want MWD + non-lol tank on it. Caldari is not the easiest race to train as a noob. Drake is noob friendly, but that's basically it. Meh, the Griffin, Blackbird, Scorp, Raven, and Tengu are all pretty noob friendly too. -Liang Griffin and BB for sure. For the rest, how big of a noob are we talking here? |
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Exploited Engineer wrote:Plus 1 wrote:Phoon is going to have to either use fitting mods, downsized guns, or downsized neuts if you want MWD + non-lol tank on it. Caldari is not the easiest race to train as a noob. Drake is noob friendly, but that's basically it. Missiles boats in general are noob friendly, since you don't need to train specialization skills for smaller missiles to access specialization skills for larger missiles (unlike guns). This basically amounts to "you can flay a T2 Drake without Rocket or Standard Missile Specialization." You could include Raven in that, but why jump into a BS to pvp with while having **** support skills? |
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Plus 1 wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Plus 1 wrote:Phoon is going to have to either use fitting mods, downsized guns, or downsized neuts if you want MWD + non-lol tank on it. Caldari is not the easiest race to train as a noob. Drake is noob friendly, but that's basically it. Meh, the Griffin, Blackbird, Scorp, Raven, and Tengu are all pretty noob friendly too. -Liang Griffin and BB for sure. For the rest, how big of a noob are we talking here?
The kind that camps with orca support.
(Sorry that one was too easy) |
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mongo Edwards wrote:My phoon fits just fine with 5 T2 torp launchers, 2 heavy neuts, and a medium nos. It also sports a MWD and a decent armor tank w/o any fitting mods. For fair disclosure I generally do run around with fitting implants in my head to make some of the tighter Caldari fits work.
Your med nos is downsized, which is what I said had to happen (Technically I said neut but the fit reqs are the same). |
|
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote:Plus 1 wrote: You could include Raven in that, but why jump into a BS to pvp with while having **** support skills?
Hence why I mentioned I don't think the phoon (like any other bs) is entirely relevant to the discussion I was having about fitting, espcially at lower skill point levels. It just happens to be the one-ship diatribe the minmatar fans go off on every time someone brings up the obvious about their t1 ships being quite easy to skill for and fit without a lot of sp. Thus it comes up again and again anyway. It's really not relevant, but posting about irrelevant things is my specialty. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
853
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote: The kind that camps with orca support.
(Sorry that one was too easy)
I direct your attention to this blog post: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4z
You might find something interesting in it.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Vladimir Smugdog wrote: The kind that camps with orca support.
(Sorry that one was too easy)
I direct your attention to this blog post: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4zYou might find something interesting in it. -Liang
Good natured ribbing my fellow spaceman. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
853
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Vladimir Smugdog wrote: The kind that camps with orca support.
(Sorry that one was too easy)
I direct your attention to this blog post: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4zYou might find something interesting in it. -Liang Good natured ribbing my fellow spaceman.
I know, its why I responded as I did ;-)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Vladimir Smugdog wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Vladimir Smugdog wrote: The kind that camps with orca support.
(Sorry that one was too easy)
I direct your attention to this blog post: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4zYou might find something interesting in it. -Liang Good natured ribbing my fellow spaceman. I know, its why I responded as I did ;-) -Liang
Couldn't trust the link given i'm still at work.
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
853
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Vladimir Smugdog wrote:Couldn't trust the link given i'm still at work.
Eh, its just a blog post about being constantly accused of camping the Oso gate, and my personal opinion of it. If you can read Eve-O its probably perfectly safe.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 22:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
I braved the link and left amused. FW guys talk the best talk after they blob out everyone in system. |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp
287
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 23:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
DaRiKavus wrote:While we are at it can CCP reduce the optimal of Lazors, the range of missiles, the damage of blasters as well as making sure no ships can go faster than 2000m/s.
WTF? no....
4/10 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 09:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: 425mm Autocannon II 154 Pg (Largest Med Auto) Focused Pule Laser II 132 Pg (Smallest Med Laser)
now if you consider the smallest med laser have a base dps of 29 with scorch and the largest autocannon have a base dps of 30 with barrage and the smallest laser outdamage the largest AC after 5 km i dont think AC fittings are so good |
Vladimir Smugdog
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 12:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
To mare wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote: 425mm Autocannon II 154 Pg (Largest Med Auto) Focused Pule Laser II 132 Pg (Smallest Med Laser)
now if you consider the smallest med laser have a base dps of 29 with scorch and the largest autocannon have a base dps of 30 with barrage and the smallest laser outdamage the largest AC after 5 km i dont think AC fittings are so good
Because clearly damage at optimal and fitting requirement are the two metrics, otherwise in a vacuum, right? |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |