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Icelandic Whaling.

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Taihira	Posted - 2008.03.13 19:37:00 - [1] not sure if this contravenes the CCP's "no politics" rule, delete if so, mods :) Iceland to resume whale hunts Given CCP prides itself on being a very Icelandic company, with an international playerbase rapidly matching the population of the company's home nation, and with the significant impact CCP makes on Icelandic economy, I would be curious as to if CCP's staff have any opinions on the news article above. partly I'm curious. partly, I do wonder if companies with such an influential economic impact as CCP on a small country could ever sway the social perspectives that condemn whaling in all but a few nations (japan and norway, for example). (save the dominixes, I say...)
Akion Noscire	Posted - 2008.03.13 19:58:00 - [2] Why o why does everyone care so much about Icelandic whaling? There are many other countries that kill whales, heck, even the Alaskan inuits in USA kill more whales than Iceland. Besides, whale meat cooked rare is better than most meat I have tasted.
Patch86	Posted - 2008.03.13 20:00:00 - [3] For a moment I thought this thread was "Icelandic Wailing" and was about Bj÷rk. Actual opinion to follow later... ------ Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.03.13 20:20:00 - [4] I doubt CCP has that much effect on Icelandic policy particularly in an area that has nothing to do with what CCP does. I wonder if Greenpeace will go chase the whaling ships around? And why would they resume this? IIRC there is nothing obtainable from a whale not obtainable via other means. There was a time whales were the only source of mats to make some things but no longer. Seems unnecessary to me. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!" ------
Magnus Nordir	Posted - 2008.03.13 20:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Seems unnecessary to me. Whale meat tastes good, and killing intelligent animals is fun because it's more of a challenge than dragging a ***** net behind your ship and catching thousands of **** fish in one go. *************************** Everything is possible for him who believes. Insprinc haptbandun - Inuar vigandun
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.13 20:40:00 - [6] Edited by: Sephra Star on 13/03/2008 20:40:53 Originally by: Akion Noscire Why o why does everyone care so much about Icelandic whaling? There are many other countries that kill whales, heck, even the Alaskan inuits in USA kill more whales than Iceland. Besides, whale meat cooked rare is better than most meat I have tasted. Human Flesh is very good too. Don't knock it till you tried it. http://www.seashepherd.org/
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.03.13 20:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Akion Noscire Why o why does everyone care so much about Icelandic whaling? There are many other countries that kill whales, heck, even the Alaskan inuits in USA kill more whales than Iceland. Besides, whale meat cooked rare is better than most meat I have tasted. Generally what few countries left that do continue whaling are international pariahs for their efforts. As far as the Inuit go they are given special dispensation by the US government (which otherwise prohibits whaling) as it is a traditional hunt for them and, quite literally, necessary for their survival. Besides which the Inuit still hunt whales from kayaks and one whale is generally sufficient to support the entire tribe for the winter. That is a far cry from a factory whaling ship raking the seas clean of every whale they come across. And while whale meat may be tasty (I have no idea) I feel safe in saying there are probably a whole other bunch of things you enjoy eating as well and can survive quite happily without whale meat as part of your diet. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!" ------
Magnus Nordir	Posted - 2008.03.13 20:53:00 - [8] My other argument still stands - they're more fun to hunt down than fish. Also, there's obviously people who want whale meat, so the question we should be asking ourselves is, why not? What do the tree (whale)-huggers profit if we don't hunt whales? Their effect on the environment is obviously minimal, since they're nearly extinct anyway and the ocean ecosystem is still doing just fine. Seriously, I don't understand the idiots who oppose the killing of some animals just because they're ***** cute. Enjoy your burgers but quit whining if people want to eat dogs/cats/whales/rabid wolves/whatever, it's basic tolerance. *************************** Everything is possible for him who believes. Insprinc haptbandun - Inuar vigandun
Taihira	Posted - 2008.03.13 20:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I doubt CCP has that much effect on Icelandic policy particularly in an area that has nothing to do with what CCP does. Agreed. but I'd love to know what a company with the economic clout of CCP (I cant find the figures, but I recall a presentation hilmar made with the projections of CCP's finances and percentage of icelandic gnp) could (in theory) sway policy, if it wanted.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Magnus Nordir My other argument still stands - they're more fun to hunt down than fish. Evidently you have never heard of "The Most Dangerous Game" Humans are far more fun to hunt.
Taihira	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Magnus Nordir My other argument still stands - they're more fun to hunt down than fish. I'm sceptical that factory ships with sonar and explosive tipped harpoons counts as fun. its certainly not a sport. it's a bloody, relentless industry. and while I could understand one person with a kayak hunting to be the fight of man against animal, a battle of skill and perseverance, Icelandic(and particularly Japanese) whaling is nothing even close to that. I'd suggest you look at greenpeace video footage of Japanese factory ships if you doubt that for one second. people who find that idea to be fun having watched that, I'd rather condemn as rather sick individuals...
Patch86	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Magnus Nordir My other argument still stands - they're more fun to hunt down than fish. Also, there's obviously people who want whale meat, so the question we should be asking ourselves is, why not? What do the tree (whale)-huggers profit if we don't hunt whales? Their effect on the environment is obviously minimal, since they're nearly extinct anyway and the ocean ecosystem is still doing just fine. Seriously, I don't understand the idiots who oppose the killing of some animals just because they're ******* cute. Enjoy your burgers but quit whining if people want to eat dogs/cats/whales/rabid wolves/whatever, it's basic tolerance. 1) I bet you're fun to hunt. Does that mean I can kill you? Please say yes... 2) The whale population is low due to, and almost solely due to, human hunting. Unlike, for example, tuna, their population strategy as a species is to breed relatively little and have each individual live for many many years. Killing 1 big old whale takes immeasurably longer to right itself than killing a shoal of tuna. Its eggs in one basket syndrome, and as a species that prides itself on its ability to intelligently manage our expendable resources, we'd have to be bloody stupid not to pace ourselves a bit. Seeing as they're already overfished due to a few centuries of not so intelligent resource management, why shouldn't we ban hunting until they've shored the numbers up? 3) If they're so tasty and fun to hunt, wouldn't it be a smashing idea to ensure they don't go extinct, so we can enjoy hunting and eating them far in to the future? Yes, I know I'm responding to an obvious troll, but I'm soooo bored this evening... ------ Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Magnus Nordir My other argument still stands - they're more fun to hunt down than fish. Also, there's obviously people who want whale meat, so the question we should be asking ourselves is, why not? What do the tree (whale)-huggers profit if we don't hunt whales? Their effect on the environment is obviously minimal, since they're nearly extinct anyway and the ocean ecosystem is still doing just fine. Seriously, I don't understand the idiots who oppose the killing of some animals just because they're ******* cute. Enjoy your burgers but quit whining if people want to eat dogs/cats/whales/rabid wolves/whatever, it's basic tolerance. Are you freaking kidding me? You think since they are on the edge of extinction why not go ahead and knock them off so you can enjoy a whale burger this year and maybe the next till they are gone? Keeping them from going extinct is valuable in and of itself. Maintaining the biodiversity of the planet is a good goal in and of itself. Not to mention so you can have your whale burger you deprive me and all future generations from watching them (whale tourism is a fairly big business). There are plenty of other food sources you can enjoy just fine from things that are nowhere near going extinct. But to hell with everyone else right? You want your whale burger and there are no other considerations than what you want. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!" ------
Magnus Nordir	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Are you freaking kidding me? You think since they are on the edge of extinction why not go ahead and knock them off so you can enjoy a whale burger this year and maybe the next till they are gone? I've never once mentioned driving them to extinction. Why not factory-farm them like cows, except release them before they're killed, so we can have an epic hunt? You obviously don't have a problem with factory farming of cows, so why not whales? Sure, you'd need ***** huge sea areas to hunt them, but just think about it, we could easily feed nigeria or sudan or whatever small country happens to be starving with a whale farm, those things are pretty *** huge. Also, hunting them is an important part of our cultural heritage ("our" as in just about any nation that has access to sea), so we could maintain that, too. The way they're killed is irrelevant unless it ruins the eatable parts (so no nuclear torpedoes, pretty much anything else goes). *************************** Everything is possible for him who believes. Insprinc haptbandun - Inuar vigandun
LUH 3471	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:32:00 - [15] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 13/03/2008 21:34:17 this is just so perverted on so many levels
Taihira	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Magnus Nordir Also, how the ** can you compare murdering a human to hunting down a huge blob of meat, chasing it around the oceans and sticking a few pounds of explosive inside it to watch it blow up? Hint: One of them is a sick crime, the other is ***** awesome. this is true. it's considerably more awesome to murder humans with that mindset... preferably with a harpoon, too.
Magnus Nordir	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Taihira this is true. it's considerably more awesome to murder humans with that mindset... preferably with a harpoon, too. wtf are you some kinda psychopath? I knew the tree-huggers were insane, but I'd never imagined they'd prefer to kill a human rather than a dumb animal. ***************************** Everything is possible for him who believes. Insprinc haptbandun - Inuar vigandun
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Magnus Nordir Originally by: Taihira this is true. it's considerably more awesome to murder humans with that mindset... preferably with a harpoon, too. wtf are you some kinda psychopath? I knew the tree-huggers were insane, but I'd never imagined they'd prefer to kill a human rather than a dumb animal. Actually the scientific evidence points to CETACEANS as being more intelligent than humans. Problem with most humans is they are too dumb to realize it. http://www.johnclilly.com/
Orgos Khenn	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Taihira I'd suggest you look at greenpeace video footage of Japanese factory ships if you doubt that for one second. And of course Greenpeace has no agenda and will present its footage in an entirely unbiased and fact-first fashion. I know for sure they WON'T edit out the jars of acid being hurled at the Japanese ships by protesters, and they WILL give an accurate indication of the number of whales caught/killed and not present it in a deliberately shocking fashion. ...seriously. ---- One day...one day General will be worth reading. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:15:00 - [20] Don't look at Green Peace at all for this issue... The man that started Green Peace left Green Peace for a reason. He now does what Green Peace was meant to do, but under a new name with a new ship. http://www.seashepherd.org/
Akion Noscire	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Akion Noscire Why o why does everyone care so much about Icelandic whaling? There are many other countries that kill whales, heck, even the Alaskan inuits in USA kill more whales than Iceland. Besides, whale meat cooked rare is better than most meat I have tasted. Generally what few countries left that do continue whaling are international pariahs for their efforts. As far as the Inuit go they are given special dispensation by the US government (which otherwise prohibits whaling) as it is a traditional hunt for them and, quite literally, necessary for their survival. Besides which the Inuit still hunt whales from kayaks and one whale is generally sufficient to support the entire tribe for the winter. That is a far cry from a factory whaling ship raking the seas clean of every whale they come across. And while whale meat may be tasty (I have no idea) I feel safe in saying there are probably a whole other bunch of things you enjoy eating as well and can survive quite happily without whale meat as part of your diet. The whaling quota the Icelandic government has given the last few years has been around 20-30 minke whales (out of an estimated 174.000 whales in the north atlantic) and around 10 fin whales(out of an estimated 30.000 whales in the North Atlantic) so no, these animals are not being hunted to extinction. I'm sure you could skip just about everything in your diet, so why won't you? This is in no part distinguishable from raising cows for human consumption, and there is nothing wrong with that. I mean, you CAN just survive on water, fruit and vegetables( though it might not be quite the diet i'd be on). If this really bothers you, why won't you take a look at Norway or Japan, which hunt a lot more than Iceland. /stays away from chat rooms from now on.
Akion Noscire	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Sephra Star Don't look at Green Peace at all for this issue... The man that started Green Peace left Green Peace for a reason. He now does what Green Peace was meant to do, but under a new name with a new ship. http://www.seashepherd.org/ Oh the one that kidnaps people and destroys their livelihood? Oh yeah he's real smart, let's listen to him for a change.
Taihira	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Sephra Star Actually the scientific evidence points to CETACEANS as being more intelligent than humans. Problem with most humans is they are too dumb to realize it. "so long, and thanks for all the fish" ? and for Magnus... who said I was a tree-hugger? personally, I have no qualms about spending my weekends using 15th century weaponry designed to kill or maim. and I'd much rather be stabbing the throat of a person who does'nt care about the welfare of animals, than an unfortunate animal.
Akion Noscire	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Taihira Originally by: Sephra Star Actually the scientific evidence points to CETACEANS as being more intelligent than humans. Problem with most humans is they are too dumb to realize it. "so long, and thanks for all the fish" ? and for Magnus... who said I was a tree-hugger? personally, I have no qualms about spending my weekends using 15th century weaponry designed to kill or maim. and I'd much rather be stabbing the throat of a person who does'nt care about the welfare of animals, than an unfortunate animal. O O O, Douglas Adams ?
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:45:00 - [25] http://www.johnclilly.com/
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Sephra Star on 13/03/2008 23:03:42 Dolphin saves whales stuck on New Zealand beach Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:21pm GMT WELLINGTON (Reuters) -Moko (The Dolphin), who had been visiting the beach at Mahia on and off over the summer, arrived at the beach in the nick of time, Smith said. The disoriented mother and calf (Whales) had resisted attempts to herd them out to sea, and kept restranding on the beach, to the point where Smith said the pair would likely have to be killed. Then Moko appeared, and came right up to the whales before leading them out to sea. "Quite clearly the attitude of the whales changed when the dolphin arrived on the scene. They responded virtually straight away," Smith said. "The dolphin managed in a couple of minutes what we had failed to do in an hour and a half." Smith said the whales had not been sighted again in the area. http://uk.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUKWEL1524120080313
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:23:00 - [27] Quote: killing intelligent animals is fun Quote: they'd prefer to kill a human rather than a dumb animal. Well which is it? It is justifiable to hunt whales because they're intelligent or dumb? You can't have it both ways! I'd actually be interested in what your definitions of human and animal are. Are humans not intelligent animals? I can respect Iceland wanting to preserve their own cultural heritage and the problem of cultural imperialism in asserting a 'right' way of doing things over another country...but you make a terrible spokesperson for the pro hunting arguement __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:31:00 - [28] Edited by: Sephra Star on 13/03/2008 23:35:34 Originally by: Sephra Star Edited by: Sephra Star on 13/03/2008 23:03:42 Dolphin saves whales stuck on New Zealand beach Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:21pm GMT WELLINGTON (Reuters) -Moko (The Dolphin), who had been visiting the beach at Mahia on and off over the summer, arrived at the beach in the nick of time, Smith said. The disoriented mother and calf (Whales) had resisted attempts to herd them out to sea, and kept restranding on the beach, to the point where Smith said the pair would likely have to be killed. Then Moko appeared, and came right up to the whales before leading them out to sea. "Quite clearly the attitude of the whales changed when the dolphin arrived on the scene. They responded virtually straight away," Smith said. "The dolphin managed in a couple of minutes what we had failed to do in an hour and a half." Smith said the whales had not been sighted again in the area. http://uk.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUKWEL1524120080313 This video from CNN reports on some recent research in humans communicating with Dolphins. It plays in QUICKTIME. copy and paste the link to browser... http://hyperspective.com/delphis/CNN_sci_tech-Delphis-HI.mov
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:00:00 - [29] Edited by: Sephra Star on 14/03/2008 00:00:52 THE SPERM WHALE PROJECT The sperm whale possesses the largest brain we may ever know. It can attain seventeen pounds compared to the average homo sapiens 3.5 pound brain. One might easily wonder if this beingÆs mind is likewise outsized? If so, then what does the sperm whale think about? For that matter, what does it think about our own lesser-endowed species? http://www.interspecies.com/pages/sperm%20whale.html
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Akion Noscire The whaling quota the Icelandic government has given the last few years has been around 20-30 minke whales (out of an estimated 174.000 whales in the north atlantic) and around 10 fin whales(out of an estimated 30.000 whales in the North Atlantic) so no, these animals are not being hunted to extinction. Harvesting so few also seems hardly worth the effort. Are these industrial class whaling ships or is this more some sort of preserving tradition thing and the Icelanders all row out in their Viking Longboats (we all know every Icelander has one) and jumps on the back of the whale and wrestles it to death? Quote: I'm sure you could skip just about everything in your diet, so why won't you? This is in no part distinguishable from raising cows for human consumption, and there is nothing wrong with that. I mean, you CAN just survive on water, fruit and vegetables( though it might not be quite the diet i'd be on). Sure we could all be Vegans although it is not my thing. In fact if you really want to mess with a Vegan describe what amounts to a veritable slaughterhouse when farm equipment goes to harvest. I went to school in Iowa and knew more than a few farmer's kids and they said by the time they were done harvesting dead squirrels, rabbits, snakes, birds and so on were all over the place (harvesters chew things up pretty well). Really makes the Vegans you know splutter...great fun. The point is why hunt something down if it is in a precarious position as a species? You noted that these whales are not so threatened so perhaps that is not so bad but these things seem like a slippery slope. Once started there are always a few more to be had then bam...species on the brink again. So, you could just opt for some beef or chicken which are far, far, far away from extinction. Additionally, while trying not to get all too new agey about it (not really my thing), I do believe there is evidence cetaceans are rather smart. Comparing intelligences is difficult (hard to even really define the term) but I think they are pretty far up the ladder. To me that speaks more of a self awareness which makes offing them worse to contemplate in my mind. Part of the reason I could never eat dog...I look at my pup and I know there is a very self aware being in there looking back (although it is said pigs are as smart or smarter than dogs so I have to wrestle with that one). Quote: If this really bothers you, why won't you take a look at Norway or Japan, which hunt a lot more than Iceland. They **** me off too. Particularly Japan on this count. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!" ------

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