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New Apoc + Mega Pulse = too good?

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Darth Pheonix	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:25:00 - [31] Edited by: Darth Pheonix on 14/03/2008 00:26:24 Originally by: Gamesguy I know for a fact it doesnt fit without t2 RCUs. --------------- Please, my amarr main(this char) is stuck in one ship, I don't eve pvp with amarr ships anymore. --------------- Eagles were better than all other anti-support hacs before, and it just got another boost in the patch. It does fit: Linkage I'm not trying to steal your amarr lazors o' d00m (d00m, doom, I'm so clever ), just saying, I know what I'm flying in fleet from now on because it's SOOOOO much better than all the other sniper ships out there. Eagles: I'm looking at them now, they look just as broken as the new Apoc. Looks like CCP botched again.
Goumindong	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:26:00 - [32] Edited by: Goumindong on 14/03/2008 00:27:21 Sorry gamesguy, he is right, the Optimal bonused Apoc is overpowered. All amarr needed was to be able to fit tachs on The Geddon or Abaddon without fitting mods, or with one fitting mod. Hell, they could have made the Apoc a dedicated sniper by doing this 8/4/7 50 cubes/100 bandwidth 7 turrets, 2 launchers +5% Damage/level -10% cap use/level Enough CPU and Powergrid to fit tachs and an MWD without a fitting module. High DPS and decent volley damage at good enough ranges and with good cap use. Still useless at short ranges. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Gamesguy	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Darth Pheonix It does fit: Linkage Bleh, forgot apoc got more grid in the patch. Quote: I'm not trying to steal your amarr lazors o' d00m (d00m, doom, I'm so clever ), just saying, I know what I'm flying in fleet from now on because it's SOOOOO much better than all the other sniper ships out there. I don't fly amarr sub-capitals anymore. So the patch only nerfs me(less em resist). Mostly pvps with a minnie alt now.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Indigo Johnson Something like [Highs] = 8 MP II (scorch) [Mids] = 2 SBII, 2 TCII [Lows] = 3 HSII, 2 TE, 2 plates (???) Rigs: 3 x Energy Locus Cordinator I Ok, so rational debate is something in rare supply usually on these boards but the above can track v well and with a buddy in a logistic ship with 2-3 remote TCs on you you will be able to hit alittle past 200km. Does this smell of overpowered? And people wonder why I post alot of counter arguments in boost-minmatar/gallente threads. This thread is beyond stupid. Apoc needed a buff, deal with it. Play eve on tranq, not sisi nor eft and get a life aswell. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Msobe	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:50:00 - [35] Apoc + MP <> OP Apoc + MP + non-stack nerfed range mods/rigs = OP The issue is with the range mods/rigs. You could already do the same kind of silliness with, say, a Zealot, but its not something that really makes sense to actually do. Since the rigs say they are stack nerfed with mods, and they aren't, its a clear cut bug. So - there's a bug you can exploit to get silly range on ships with range bonus - but you'd rather complain about the ship, not the bug? Go EFT some fits that don't rely on the rigs being broken, and see what kinda ranges you get.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:55:00 - [36] Edited by: Jade190 on 14/03/2008 00:56:32 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer And people wonder why I post alot of counter arguments in boost-minmatar/gallente threads. This thread is beyond stupid. Apoc needed a buff, deal with it. Play eve on tranq, not sisi nor eft and get a life aswell. Lyria, all I ever see you do is whine on forum threads. Why don't you get a life and stop being a forum *****. You know the ship is overpowered. Whether it be because of the mods or whatever, it needs to be fixed just like a lot of other things in this game, including the forum whinage. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Jade190 Edited by: Jade190 on 14/03/2008 00:56:32 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer And people wonder why I post alot of counter arguments in boost-minmatar/gallente threads. This thread is beyond stupid. Apoc needed a buff, deal with it. Play eve on tranq, not sisi nor eft and get a life aswell. Lyria, all I ever see you do is whine on forum threads. Why don't you get a life and stop being a forum *****. You know the ship is overpowered. Whether it be because of the mods or whatever, it needs to be fixed just like a lot of other things in this game, including the forum whinage. Geez, why is the eve community so up-tight about everything. Chill. Its just a friggin forum discussion. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Geez, why is the eve community so up-tight about everything. Chill. Its just a friggin forum discussion. You made some remarks that I found offensive, causing me to respond in a negative. Don't like it? Don't attack people (telling them to get a life). They are tryign to make an argument, just like everyone else here. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Geez, why is the eve community so up-tight about everything. Chill. Its just a friggin forum discussion. You made some remarks that I found offensive, causing me to respond in a negative. Don't like it? Don't attack people (telling them to get a life). They are tryign to make an argument, just like everyone else here. I dont mind people getting snappy. Its just that people dont listen unless you talk like an uptight royalty while discussing a friggin game. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:10:00 - [40] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I dont mind people getting snappy. Its just that people dont listen unless you talk like an uptight royalty while discussing a friggin game. I can agree with that. But this isn't the place to discuss it. New apoc needs adjustment. Plain & simple. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I dont mind people getting snappy. Its just that people dont listen unless you talk like an uptight royalty while discussing a friggin game. I can agree with that. But this isn't the place to discuss it. New apoc needs adjustment. Plain & simple. No, its the range rigs that need stacking added. The apoc bonuses are fine. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I dont mind people getting snappy. Its just that people dont listen unless you talk like an uptight royalty while discussing a friggin game. I can agree with that. But this isn't the place to discuss it. New apoc needs adjustment. Plain & simple. No, the range rigs need to stack. The apoc bonuses are fine. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:18:00 - [43] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer No, the range rigs need to stack. The apoc bonuses are fine. Rigs changed the way the game works, they didn't compensate for that when they did the new Apoc, and it's obivous they didn't. So they can change the rigs, or change the Apoc. Change a series of modules (most of which need it, but that's not what this thread is about) or change ONE ship. It's overpowered, and most people see it, whether through rigs or not, it need a nerf, simple as that. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer No, the range rigs need to stack. The apoc bonuses are fine. Rigs changed the way the game works, they didn't compensate for that when they did the new Apoc, and it's obivous they didn't. So they can change the rigs, or change the Apoc. Change a series of modules (most of which need it, but that's not what this thread is about) or change ONE ship. It's overpowered, and most people see it, whether through rigs or not, it need a nerf, simple as that. Thatll take a year or two. Its common knowlege that polycarbons are overpowered compared to nano IIs if you think about how ODIIs and axu thrusters compare to eachother. Has it been fixed? Nope. And this might take a while too. But good news it, the stacking on those range rigs will be fixed when nano poly****hottry will be fixed. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Sotha Sila	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:23:00 - [45] 2 words to say to the "smell of overpowered" SKILL INTENSIVE does anything else really need to be said? Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Thatll take a year or two. Its common knowlege that polycarbons are overpowered compared to nano IIs if you think about how ODIIs and axu thrusters compare to eachother. Has it been fixed? Nope. And this might take a while too. But good news it, the stacking on those range rigs will be fixed when nano poly****hottry will be fixed. Tbh, rigs were a mistake, so were scripts, but that's dead and buried now, we have them. There's nothing wrong with nanos except speed implants mixed with the ship mods/rigs. Once again, NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS IT. Start a new thread if you want to preach about nanoships. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:27:00 - [47] Originally by: Sotha Sila 2 words to say to the "smell of overpowered" SKILL INTENSIVE does anything else really need to be said? Same amount of skills needed to fly any other armor tanked, turret using ship. Just for notes ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Thatll take a year or two. Its common knowlege that polycarbons are overpowered compared to nano IIs if you think about how ODIIs and axu thrusters compare to eachother. Has it been fixed? Nope. And this might take a while too. But good news it, the stacking on those range rigs will be fixed when nano poly****hottry will be fixed. Tbh, rigs were a mistake, so were scripts, but that's dead and buried now, we have them. There's nothing wrong with nanos except speed implants mixed with the ship mods/rigs. Once again, NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS IT. Start a new thread if you want to preach about nanoships. But I like to AOE-preach. Thats my thing. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Sotha Sila	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:32:00 - [49] what about capacitor then out of curiosity? I havnt tested either a pulse apoc or a tacyon apoc setup but i imagine that skills would have to be rather high to run it consitently, especially on the tac setup, since we no longer get the bonus to cap on the apoc and your running optimal rigs rather than cap rigs. Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:33:00 - [50] Originally by: Sotha Sila what about capacitor then out of curiosity? I havnt tested either a pulse apoc or a tacyon apoc setup but i imagine that skills would have to be rather high to run it consitently, especially on the tac setup, since we no longer get the bonus to cap on the apoc and your running optimal rigs rather than cap rigs. The pulse apoc runs great. I havent tested tach apoc. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Jordan Musgrat	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:37:00 - [51] The ship is not overpowered in anyway. You setup a gang of 5 apocs and 5 Oneiroses, and I'll break them with 10 vagabonds any day. Now it is possible that someone with the discipline of Burn Eden could make a gang of 200km sniping Apocs be worth a flip ingame, but then if you have that level of goodness you can make a lot of things work. When something has no counter, it is overpowered. This on the other hand, has so many counters it's insane. Hell let's pretend that your 200km Apocs and oneiroses will be able to keep a gang pinned down, I'll bring a gang of ravens and basilisks and kick the tar out of you. Someone said it but obviously it bears repeating, stop your whinage. Go play eve, and the first time you get omgwtfpwned by this theoretical setup, mail me so I can laugh. ----------- Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0...
Msobe	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:38:00 - [52] OK, I gotta be snotty now. How is it that people who can't read somehow manage to write? The apoc had its capacitor increased to what it was with BS 5 before. It didn't lose capacitor when it lost the bonus. And uggg, people saying the problem is the ship - find a fit, any fit, that doesn't exploit bugged rigs, but still yields an overpowered ship. Since, as you say, the ship is overpowered, you should have no problem proving that without resorting to rigs that do not work as their description states. If you can't make the ship become something ridiculous without using the rigs, you gotta admit that's where the problem lies.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:38:00 - [53] Originally by: Sotha Sila what about capacitor then out of curiosity? I havnt tested either a pulse apoc or a tacyon apoc setup but i imagine that skills would have to be rather high to run it consitently, especially on the tac setup, since we no longer get the bonus to cap on the apoc and your running optimal rigs rather than cap rigs. Tbh, the lasers needed to have their cap use reduced, not a damage increase through tanking nerfs. That was another mistake on CCP's part. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:39:00 - [54] Originally by: Darth Pheonix The new Apoc is actually more broken as a sniper ship. Try this setup in eft: 2x Tracking Enhancer II 3x Heat Sink II 2x Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I 4x Sensor Booster II [2 Range Scripts, 1 Scan Res Script] 8x Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Gets 401 dps (best dps by a HUGE margin), and has about the same range as the rokh. NO RIGS! ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Msobe	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:44:00 - [55] Edited by: Msobe on 14/03/2008 01:44:21 Uhh, yeah, but thats a set up without megapulse lasers - which is the complaint people have with the new apoc. See the title of this thread. If you put tachyons on a sniper ship . . . .well, what exactly is the problem?
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:46:00 - [56] Originally by: Msobe Edited by: Msobe on 14/03/2008 01:44:21 Uhh, yeah, but thats a set up without megapulse lasers - which is the complaint people have with the new apoc. See the title of this thread. If you put tachyons on a sniper ship . . . .well, what exactly is the problem? Rigs are stupid, plain and simple. NERF THEM ALL! ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Lalita Prestoc	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:20:00 - [57] Edited by: Lalita Prestoc on 14/03/2008 02:21:05 Originally by: Msobe Edited by: Msobe on 14/03/2008 01:44:21 Uhh, yeah, but thats a set up without megapulse lasers - which is the complaint people have with the new apoc. See the title of this thread. If you put tachyons on a sniper ship . . . .well, what exactly is the problem? Noooooo people are complaining about both although this topic is focusing on the the megapulse with bugged rigs (wasn't fixed in patch wtf?) setup which is a specialized setup so won't become common but is still amazingly effective with its combination of tracking/dps/range. The Maelstrom (or tempest for cheap skates), Mega and Rokh all offer something different without outclassing the others. The Apoc now comes in and can be fit to outclass either the Mega or Maelstrom/Tempest in practically every way. Only the Rokh can offer anything "more" than the Apoc through its range/tankability. I was one of the people calling for the kind of change Goum posted with the boosting coming in being able to fit Tachs+MWD without fitting modules, increasing its performance through freeing 2 slots and then have a free bonus to decide what to do with...
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:40:00 - [58] Originally by: arbalesttom Yes please, nerf the apoc, its a overpowered ship. Take some of your own medicine and stop whining caldari fanboi.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:56:00 - [59] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/03/2008 03:00:21 Originally by: Jordan Musgrat The ship is not overpowered in anyway. You setup a gang of 5 apocs and 5 Oneiroses, and I'll break them with 10 vagabonds any day. Now it is possible that someone with the discipline of Burn Eden could make a gang of 200km sniping Apocs be worth a flip ingame, but then if you have that level of goodness you can make a lot of things work. When something has no counter, it is overpowered. This on the other hand, has so many counters it's insane. Hell let's pretend that your 200km Apocs and oneiroses will be able to keep a gang pinned down, I'll bring a gang of ravens and basilisks and kick the tar out of you. Someone said it but obviously it bears repeating, stop your whinage. Go play eve, and the first time you get omgwtfpwned by this theoretical setup, mail me so I can laugh. Actually, 5 Onys + 5 Pulse Apocs will WTFBBQPWN 5 Vagabonds... because the Onys will ensure that your HACs are tracked. Also, don't expect to be breaking 5 logistics ships with a few HACs. Don't be stupid. -Liang Ed: I'm almost content to say that 5 Onys vs 5 Pulse Apocs will take a (within reason) arbitrarily large number of Vagabonds. Ed Ed: Hell, and that's neglecting the tracking disruptors that will single handedly 100% remove the DPS from a Vaga... hope you have 3x ambit rigs fit to every Minnie ship you own. -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2008.03.14 03:49:00 - [60] Edited by: Wu Jiun on 14/03/2008 03:50:43 Wait 5 hacs don't pwn 5 bs + 5 logistic? I am stunned. The end is coming. Edit: And the apoc has nothing to with tds. Can't you leave that out of at least one thread?

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