| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Indigo Johnson
   |
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:03:00 -
[1]
Something like
[Highs] = 8 MP II (scorch)
[Mids] = 2 SBII, 2 TCII
[Lows] = 3 HSII, 2 TE, 2 plates (???)
Rigs: 3 x Energy Locus Cordinator I
Ok, so rational debate is something in rare supply usually on these boards but the above can track v well and with a buddy in a logistic ship with 2-3 remote TCs on you you will be able to hit alittle past 200km.
Does this smell of overpowered?
|
Lord WarATron
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:09:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Indigo Johnson
Something like
[Highs] = 8 MP II (scorch)
[Mids] = 2 SBII, 2 TCII
[Lows] = 3 HSII, 2 TE, 2 plates (???)
Rigs: 3 x Energy Locus Cordinator I
Ok, so rational debate is something in rare supply usually on these boards but the above can track v well and with a buddy in a logistic ship with 2-3 remote TCs on you you will be able to hit alittle past 200km.
Does this smell of overpowered?
A Blaster Rokh can hit something like 80-100km if he also has a gang of remote TC's in a logistic ship, just like you are doing. I just dont see your point here......
--
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Billion Isk Mission |
Alowishus
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:10:00 -
[3]
Take that and add the Armageddon ROF bonus and you're where Mega Pulse were at before the big Mega Pulse 'nerf' (range reduction).
How does the damage compare with any other sniping BS with a logistics ship and 2-3 TCs taking it out to 200km?
/makes fart noise
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Rialtor
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:10:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Indigo Johnson
Something like
[Highs] = 8 MP II (scorch)
[Mids] = 2 SBII, 2 TCII
[Lows] = 3 HSII, 2 TE, 2 plates (???)
Rigs: 3 x Energy Locus Cordinator I
Ok, so rational debate is something in rare supply usually on these boards but the above can track v well and with a buddy in a logistic ship with 2-3 remote TCs on you you will be able to hit alittle past 200km.
Does this smell of overpowered?
Does it deal more damage than 2 real snipers?
---- sig ----
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. |
Indigo Johnson
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
I just dont see your point here......
Obviously the inclusion of a logistic/alt is a bit over the top but even without it the ship will still have an optimum exceeding 100km and track v well. Obviously the setup is not a solo one and there are many what ifs to consider but...well, just seems alittle strange/wrongish for a ship to be able to hit so far and track so well /shrug.
|
Indigo Johnson
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rialtor
Does it deal more damage than 2 real snipers?
Just going on the theory, i work it out that a max skilled pilot will do 580ish dps from the guns alone. Add in 3 sentries and that rises to 700ish?
|
Ryysa
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:25:00 -
[7]
Sentries don't hit at 200km.
Your entire comparison is flawed because you include a logistics ship.
Get ranges without logistic ship.
And suddenly it's not so impressive anymore.
It is below range of typical fleet battles, so it can't do much in a fleet battle.
And where else would you use it anyway?
Don't see any valid point.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Indigo Johnson
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:36:00 -
[8]
I didn't say it was going to be for a fleet fight and make no assumptions bar the following:
Is it right that such a ship can hit and track past 100km and do 500dps to a stationary or slow moving target.
Drones are a side issue, ignore them with the logistic is included for "fun".
For sake of comparison, lets take an AC tempest with 3 dmg mods, 6 x 800mmII AC (with barrage) and 2 CML II (with devastor missiles) with 2 TC II and 2 TE II and 3 Falloff rigs I fitted (hopefully thats a fair comparison setup correct me if you think im wrong).
According to EFT that has a range of optimal + 1/2 falloff of 50ish km where it will be doing 315ish or so dps. To add the logistic ship in would be alittle pointless i think because you can't get remote falloff extension modules to my knowledge.
|
Ryysa
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ryysa on 13/03/2008 20:40:15
That tempest would have some tank and tackle gear, your apoc doesn't.
Fitting TC/TE on tempest is a waste. (they don't affect falloff).
Either way, too much EFT.
That setup is completely useless in 99% of cases.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Wideen
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:40:00 -
[10]
different weapon systems. must we really discuss this over and over again? Pros/cons, upsides/downsides.
Btw I rly like that setup of yours, it'll get raped straight off the gate but sure, sit there with your two plates and tracking enhancers/computers and feel happy that you can hit targets from 100km.
Originally by: F'nog
Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
|
Kruel
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:41:00 -
[11]
It's not a realistic use for the Apoc, so no I don't think MPIIs + Apoc = too good. Sounds like a fun thing to try, but I wouldn't buy 3x optimal rigs simply because you can't switch them out. Like a one-trick pony, it would only be good at what you suggest.
|
Emperor D'Hoffryn
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:44:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 13/03/2008 20:44:37
Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 13/03/2008 20:44:17
Originally by: Indigo Johnson
Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 13/03/2008 20:38:19
I didn't say it was going to be for a fleet fight and make no assumptions bar the following:
Is it right that such a ship can hit and track past 100km and do 500dps to a stationary or slow moving target.
Drones are a side issue, ignore them with the logistic is included for "fun".
For sake of comparison, lets take an AC tempest with 3 dmg mods, 6 x 800mmII AC (with barrage) and 2 CML II (with devastor missiles) with 2 TC II and 2 TE II and 3 Falloff rigs I fitted (hopefully thats a fair comparison setup correct me if you think im wrong).
According to EFT that has a range of optimal + 1/2 falloff of 50ish km where it will be doing 315ish or so dps at that range, at its optimal it will doing around 730ish. To add the logistic ship in would be alittle pointless i think because you can't get remote falloff extension modules to my knowledge.
all you really proved is that minnies need some love 
the max range pulse apoc is primarily due to a bug that makes the optimal range rigs not stack properly with the TEs/TCs. Once thats fixed, it wouldnt be *QUITE* so silly.
Even now, while its not fixed, its not a big deal. Might be some fringe uses where you could make it work....just like 250km optimal rokhs, but you are just not going to see these flying around.
Originally by: Meridius Dex
I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
|
Indigo Johnson
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 20:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 13/03/2008 20:51:49
Ok, seems fine to some people and not to others. I admit, EFT isn't a true reflection of in game dps values etc and i didn't know the bug was TE and optimal laser rigs didn't stack, cheers for thoughts.
|
Lord WarATron
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 21:01:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/03/2008 21:03:17
1 megapulse apoc + multiple logistic ships using tracking links is weaker than just getting the whole gang into snipers.
You can boost a Rokh with Blasters for silly ranges. You can boost antimatter Railgun Rokh upto 249km as well. Is this unbalanced?
Like I said, gimmik setups dont make sense, so I just dont see your point here. If all those logistic ships were in snipers, then you would have a more effective force.
--
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Billion Isk Mission |
Hafsteinn Oskar1
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 22:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/03/2008 21:03:17
1 megapulse apoc + multiple logistic ships using tracking links is weaker than just getting the whole gang into snipers.
You can boost a Rokh with Blasters for silly ranges. You can boost antimatter Railgun Rokh upto 249km as well. Is this unbalanced?
Like I said, gimmik setups dont make sense, so I just dont see your point here. If all those logistic ships were in snipers, then you would have a more effective force.
You only need 1.
|
Riaz Qaadir
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 22:13:00 -
[16]
Can support 5 pulse apocs with 2 logistics to get 550-600 DPS @ 200km.
7 traditional snipers do less damage with less tracking at that range (0.04 vs <0.005).
|
Ogul
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 22:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir
Can support 5 pulse apocs with 2 logistics to get 550-600 DPS @ 200km.
7 traditional snipers do less damage with less tracking at that range (0.04 vs <0.005).
And the loss of 1 logistic ship takes 3 of those apocs out of the picture.
---
Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes. |
Deva Blackfire
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 22:31:00 -
[18]
Show me killboard link of actual combat where "uber pulse apocs" were used. Until you do so "proof or stfu".
|
arbalesttom
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:02:00 -
[19]
Yes please, nerf the apoc, its a overpowered ship.
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
Originally by: Mitnal
Locked, one troll after another.
Mitnal,
Community Representative
|
Arian Snow
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:22:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Arian Snow on 13/03/2008 23:24:26
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir
Can support 5 pulse apocs with 2 logistics to get 550-600 DPS @ 200km.
7 traditional snipers do less damage with less tracking at that range (0.04 vs <0.005).
If you can make those tactics work in a group, then all power to you.
This is one of the myriad of useless theorycraft threads thats having prevalence in the Eve-O forums these days. A bad sideeffect of EFT and Quickfit.
-----------------------------------------------
I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all! |
Darth Pheonix
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:25:00 -
[21]
The new Apoc is actually more broken as a sniper ship. Try this setup in eft:
2x Tracking Enhancer II
3x Heat Sink II
2x Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I
4x Sensor Booster II [2 Range Scripts, 1 Scan Res Script]
8x Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Gets 401 dps (best dps by a HUGE margin), and has about the same range as the rokh.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
The Egghead
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Indigo Johnson
Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 13/03/2008 20:38:19
Is it right that such a ship can hit and track past 100km and do 500dps to a stationary or slow moving target.
You mean like a cruise raven?
|
super bomberman
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:31:00 -
[23]
No body with any sense flew the poc pre patch with mp coz it did crap dps, now post patch with a full set of op range rigs and te's + sensor boosters and scorch u can hit up to about 80km solo with mp, tho the shuttle ur shooting will probably just laugh and smack u in local as u fail to break the natural regen of his shields |
Gamesguy
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Darth Pheonix
The new Apoc is actually more broken as a sniper ship. Try this setup in eft:
2x Tracking Enhancer II
3x Heat Sink II
2x Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I
4x Sensor Booster II [2 Range Scripts, 1 Scan Res Script]
8x Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Gets 401 dps (best dps by a HUGE margin), and has about the same range as the rokh.
Where's your mwd?
Also, hyperion can do similar dps.
|
Darth Pheonix
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Where's your mwd?
Also, hyperion can do similar dps.
It can fit a MWD on there if you wish, drop a sensor booster. A hype can do similar dps, but at 212 optimal and 25 falloff?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Gamesguy
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Darth Pheonix
It can fit a MWD on there if you wish, drop a sensor booster.
Doesnt fit, not enough PG, you need t2 RCUs.
Quote:
A hype can do similar dps, but at 212 optimal and 25 falloff?
edit: Not saying that the Apoc didn't need this boost, it did. I just think they over did it a little.
Hyperion does exactly the same dps with 183 optimal+30falloff.
However, it has far more hp so you have more time to warp out, in addition, fleet combat generally doesnt happen past 190km, because after that very few ships can hit.
|
Darth Pheonix
|
Posted - 2008.03.13 23:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Doesnt fit, not enough PG, you need t2 RCUs.
Hyperion does exactly the same dps with 183 optimal+30falloff.
However, it has far more hp so you have more time to warp out, in addition, fleet combat generally doesnt happen past 190km, because after that very few ships can hit.
Try a t1 MWD, that should fit (I know, you should use t2, but I've gotten away with tech 1s in TRI before  )
I understand that there are ships that can reach close to the range, but why should anyone fly anything else if it's going to be out ranged and/or out damaged by a single ship?
|
Gamesguy
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 00:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Darth Pheonix
Try a t1 MWD, that should fit (I know, you should use t2, but I've gotten away with tech 1s in TRI before )
Still doesnt fit, you're short like 1500PG, the difference between t1 and t2 is only like 250 grid.
Quote:
I understand that there are ships that can reach close to the range, but why should anyone fly anything else if it's going to be out ranged and/or out damaged by a single ship?
God forbid amarr have the best ship in the class for something.
Why should anyone fly anything but eagles for anti-support roles(ie muninn/zealot/cerb) when its by far the best one at it?
|
Darth Pheonix
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 00:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Still doesnt fit, you're short like 1500PG, the difference between t1 and t2 is only like 250 grid.
God forbid amarr have the best ship in the class for something.
Why should anyone fly anything but eagles for anti-support roles(ie muninn/zealot/cerb) when its by far the best one at it?
Something is wrong with your EFT, because it fits in game and in EFT.
Not saying Amarr shouldn't have a good ship (so defensive  ), just saying it shouldn't be so grossly better than everythign else that there is no reason to fly anything else in that role. And that goes for any race/class/ship, etc.
And if eagles really out class all the other ships meant for that role, then eagles need to be looked at too .
|
Gamesguy
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 00:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Darth Pheonix
Something is wrong with your EFT, because it fits in game and in EFT.
I know for a fact it doesnt fit without t2 RCUs.
Quote:
Not saying Amarr shouldn't have a good ship (so defensive ), just saying it shouldn't be so grossly better than everythign else that there is no reason to fly anything else in that role. And that goes for any race/class/ship, etc.
Please, my amarr main(this char) is stuck in one ship, I don't eve pvp with amarr ships anymore.
Quote:
And if eagles really out class all the other ships meant for that role, then eagles need to be looked at too .
Eagles were better than all other anti-support hacs before, and it just got another boost in the patch.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |