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GAME OVER: ISK Farmers and sellers win

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Max Nero	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Arkedon Now in hi-sec, dont you need the wreck owners to shoot you first? (pre and post patch). No matter how many wrecks you steal, if they dont shoot you then you still cant hurt them. You only get their loot but no kills. What happens when you warp in and steal some wrecks and none of them shoot you? You do it enough times until they do shoot. Originally by: Niklo Game to become is more and more similar to prison for not aggressive people. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Recalesence	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Arkedon Now in hi-sec, dont you need the wreck owners to shoot you first? (pre and post patch). No matter how many wrecks you steal, if they dont shoot you then you still cant hurt them. You only get their loot but no kills. What happens when you warp in and steal some wrecks and none of them shoot you? Thats what im thinking, they'd be so increadably stupid for shooting at you. Really if you got all 5-10 of these iskfarming ravens too shoot at you.. obviously you'd be resisted plated and have as much dps as you could squeeze on and call in some friends for remote rep/tracking/sensor/eccm but none of your friends will see them as flashing. So only the one or two of you they shot at would be able to retaliate?
Feilamya	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:36:00 - [33] I still don't get it. But I'll try: YOU steal from THEIR wrecks and get aggro, right? This means they can shoot you. And they do it? If so, then these guys deserve no better job! Apparently, farmers are incredibly stupid, so maybe you could try this: Enter their mission and add some wrecks and cans of your own to it (maybe some renamed noobships that look like mission wrecks. Cans should work too if they do salvage). This works because their looters own no wrecks, so they are only looting wrecks they don't own, and I doubt they check the owner of every wreck they loot. Not even a real player would do that, unless he is a lot more paranoid than me. Wait until THEY loot YOUR stuff, then pewpew. Dunno if this makes sense and/or works, but if it does ... well ... Try to nerf this, CCP!
Max Nero	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Recalesence Originally by: Arkedon Now in hi-sec, dont you need the wreck owners to shoot you first? (pre and post patch). No matter how many wrecks you steal, if they dont shoot you then you still cant hurt them. You only get their loot but no kills. What happens when you warp in and steal some wrecks and none of them shoot you? Thats what im thinking, they'd be so increadably stupid for shooting at you. Really if you got all 5-10 of these iskfarming ravens too shoot at you.. obviously you'd be resisted plated and have as much dps as you could squeeze on and call in some friends for remote rep/tracking/sensor/eccm but none of your friends will see them as flashing. So only the one or two of you they shot at would be able to retaliate? That is exactly how it is done. And believe me, isk farmers do shoot - at you and your support as well. Now, with changes in this patch, the only farmer who could legally be able to shoot you will be the one who accepted the mission - and most of the times he is permadocked. Originally by: Niklo Game to become is more and more similar to prison for not aggressive people. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
damage done	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Cors How about, instead of attacking the damned isk farmers, you attack folks who BUY the isk. Maybe Because that Would encourage ISK buyers to buy more ISK? Originally by: Shadowsword The mission owner will at least be forced to exit the station because he's the only one with the mission bookmark. So? He'll just warp to the mission, in a pod or something. Then the mission runner will warp to him. The character that accepted the mission now warps back to dock without ever killing a rat to create a wreck. Ergo there's NO way to agro the character running the mission. Originally by: Recalesence So basicly your whole strategy depended on um, flashing red to the iskfarmers and hoping they would shoot you? So you can pwn them into star dust? why does it seem like this hardly worked in the first place. A lot of mission runners would underestimate the people stealing from their wrecks and engage ('I have a mighty Faction fitted Faction BS, he's in a lowly Assault Frig, this will be easy!'). There are many videos out there showing people killing these guys if you look. Oddly this patch ONLY helps the macroers who use this tactic now, simply because if you're not a macroer you'll be in the mission yourself, and the same rules as before apply. However now the macroers have been given this extra protection. Why did CCP agree to this change? To those who say 'Adapt or Die' please post with something constructive, like how the hunters can bypass this new protection. The thing is the only financially viable way of dealing the macroers is gone, so now the players fighting the macroers will dissapear, leaving only CCP to discourage them....and we all know how well they are at that
DaveW	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:50:00 - [36] I'm glad this game breaking issue has been addressed. There could be as many a five to ten people leave EVE because of this. --------------------------------------------------- "If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen."
Ki An	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:02:00 - [37] Look on the bright side, OP. No doubt some people will be terribly surprised when you steal from 'their' wreck, they open fire and Concord comes to the rescue of the poor loot thief. Here's hoping for a few weeks of CNR's popping left and righ... ...until they learn. Crafty buggers. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Guddah	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:05:00 - [38] The thing is, the thief will not show up as aggro'd, so no change on overview
Guddah	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:07:00 - [39] Originally by: DaveW I'm glad this game breaking issue has been addressed. There could be as many a five to ten people leave EVE because of this. What may be minor to you is major to someone else. We have a right to whine
Recalesence	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Max Nero that is exactly how it is done. And believe me, isk farmers do shoot - at you and your support as well. Now, with changes in this patch, the only farmer who could legally be able to shoot you will be the one who accepted the mission - and most of the times he is permadocked. Ok Now I completely understand your plight. that actually sounds like fun to hunt isk farmers, get a SUPERGANK CNR in range of them and a few basilisks making a love triange and you'd tank em for years. Id love to see that, dont suppose you have any footage from how you used to do it? Also, at least you can still take all their loot and salvage, If they did shoot you as before. Im sure they'll try to stop you. Really it sounds like it's as much a nerf for them as it is for you, but ultimately you cant deal damage any more. they just sit there and watch you take all their isk profits :P

Guddah	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:29:00 - [41] We do have a server with fraps footage on it but one of the Alliance top brass will have to authorise its link being posted here
Lia Darklotus	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:29:00 - [42] If CCP has made wrecks the property of the mission runner who ran the mission then I applaud them. I have had so many instances of a-holes stealing my wrecks after I went back to loot and salvage a mission once it's been turned in. I have a feeling that the only ones really whining are those who made a living off stealing other peoples wrecks.
Krumpit	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:29:00 - [43] Taking the profits is not the point of hunting the farmers. Using aggro and a crap ship to make them think they can shoot you and get away with it, is the point. So no pimped out CNRs either.
Lia Darklotus	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Guddah Originally by: DaveW I'm glad this game breaking issue has been addressed. There could be as many a five to ten people leave EVE because of this. What may be minor to you is major to someone else. We have a right to whine and everyone else has a right not to give a damn about your cry baby whining.
Guddah	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:36:00 - [45] Just to clarify, our intended target was only ever chinese mission farmers. We would always leave legits alone. We arent common thiefs to the standard players, just those that farm 23/7 on a rotating shift pattern.
Guddah	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:40:00 - [46] Originally by: Lia Darklotus Originally by: Guddah Originally by: DaveW I'm glad this game breaking issue has been addressed. There could be as many a five to ten people leave EVE because of this. What may be minor to you is major to someone else. We have a right to whine and everyone else has a right not to give a damn about your cry baby whining. Yes they do, I never said they didnt
Jason Travers	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:42:00 - [47] If you all are going to go play WoW. Can I have your stuff? Mommy that mean ole bear just dukied in my sandbox. :(
Guddah	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:43:00 - [48] I would never ever play WoW
Scoundrelus	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Keleigh Great patch CCP, im off to play WOW! atleast Blizzard now know how to combat farmers! Kel Have fun getting Data Mined! Sucks to be you 20.8 Mil SP Astarte PvP char for sale
Krumpit	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Lia Darklotus If CCP has made wrecks the property of the mission runner who ran the mission then I applaud them. No, they have made them the property of the mission runner who accepted the mission. There is no need for the mission runner character to actually run the mission. Therefore this "I have had so many instances of a-holes stealing my wrecks after I went back to loot and salvage a mission once it's been turned in. I have a feeling that the only ones really whining are those who made a living off stealing other peoples wrecks." is a bit stupid. First please point me to all the great guides and threads that explain how great it is to make a living off stealing other people's wrecks. Sounds like really easy money. Second, unless you have an alt character who has sufficient standings to accept a mission which your main can run for him, there is no change to you, the solo mission runner. Farmers have the means to create such alts and benefit from the change, most mission runners do not. If I was a clever farmer, I would cycle through alts to mitigate the risk of the accepting character getting banned - get all them up to level 4 agents, but leave one guy in the station, the one who has accepted the mission. Next mission use a different char to accept the mission.

Orgos Khenn	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:45:00 - [51] I know how to power the new superserver. Hook Darwin's body up to a dynamo, then tell him via a ouija board about this thread. Watch him spin. ---- One day...one day General will be worth reading. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Arkedon	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:49:00 - [52] This could work in your favor if you just want to bug the heck out of the "isk farmers". Just loot as much as you can and eat into their profits and they cannot even shoot you if they wanted to. This may be less fun than actually fighting with them but you still get to annoy them. The idea of dropping your own cans seems plausible. If they bite, then it is their turn to flash red to your entire corp. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Tsanse Kinske	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Lia Darklotus If CCP has made wrecks the property of the mission runner who ran the mission then I applaud them. I have had so many instances of a-holes stealing my wrecks after I went back to loot and salvage a mission once it's been turned in. I have a feeling that the only ones really whining are those who made a living off stealing other peoples wrecks. This doesn't change ninja salvaging at all. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
WCPistolPete	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:30:00 - [54] Originally by: Cors How about, instead of attacking the damned isk farmers, you attack folks who BUY the isk. By attacking ISK farmers and macro-users we use in-game dynamics to attack the source, the ideal way to stop activity that really violates the TOS and EULA. It also makes an interesting niche in the game for some of us. To stop ISK flow outside of the game is currently beyond the realm of UCAM. Yes, we could monitor the market and contracts and petition every civilian gatling gun and basic cargo hold that sells for 1.5 billion ISK but we'll be told that's just someone who overpaid for an item and such trickery is a part of the game. If you're dumb enough to pay 1.5 billion for a nothing item then so be it. Just because it's someone in an ISK pinch selling that item to conclude an OOG ISK purchase and it's the ISK farmer buying that item it's all good. Now that the owner of the wreck never need be present in the mission, we will not gain aggro to those who show up on the mission owner's (read: farmer's) behalf. UCAM does not hunt legit players in safe space, ever. Though we may probe out your mission, once we see you as a legit player, we would leave. Might give you a startle by warping in, but no one from UCAM would take anything from your mission, aggress you or gank you. We have a very specific set of targets. BTW, do you grind missions 23/7, every day of the year, with three to five of your friends? That is what our targets do... WCPistolPete
WCPistolPete	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:33:00 - [55] Originally by: Martin Mckenna This thread makes no sence Ahh, good, the booster has taken effect. Next target. WCPistolPete
MongWen	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Guddah By the way, this is not the view of our Alliance, it is the view of our corp. So hate us, not UCAM Infact this affects alot that UCAM Does and shares the same view, and i know some off our members (inc. Ki Shoda) has the same view on the subject. Originally by: Zhao Ni The solution to farmers is silly simple. Have a small crew of 3 or 4 people from CCP pose as 'ISK sellers' to the ISK companies. Sell them the ISK, take their money, remove the ISK from their account, and ban the account. Company is out the RL money, and the in-game ISK. You rinse and repeat this enough it will either: 1. Make ISK so silly expensive, it just won't be worth purchasing. 2. Dissuade them from selling completely. That does not fix the problem at all with farmers, tho it may work for a little time, but in the long run it will not work, and it can lead to some legal stuff.. Originally by: Cors How about, instead of attacking the damned isk farmers, you attack folks who BUY the isk. If noone buys the isk, there is no market. If there is no market, no need for ISK farmers. Ofc we can go after the isk buyers, but then again there is no way to see if they are buying isk, or getting isk form a main in 0.0 or low sec. or if its a alt made to grind isk in high sec or something. Originally by: Cors For me, I see this change as a good thing, as I've several times had folks in MY missions trying to agress me. This also means folks can't come in and steal my loot or salvage my wrecks. Well Since its Your mission then you can still shoot them, the changes atm are: i accept a mission, and get someone to run it for me by warping them to the gate (or what ever) they go in and kill it off, then the wrecks are owned by me.. so anyone that takes the loot i can shoot.. and the guy running the mission can just sit there and watch not being able to do anything. (bad right?) Originally by: Feilamya I still don't get it. But I'll try: YOU steal from THEIR wrecks and get aggro, right? This means they can shoot you. And they do it? If so, then these guys deserve no better job! Apparently, farmers are incredibly stupid, so maybe you could try this: Enter their mission and add some wrecks and cans of your own to it (maybe some renamed noobships that look like mission wrecks. Cans should work too if they do salvage). This works because their looters own no wrecks, so they are only looting wrecks they don't own, and I doubt they check the owner of every wreck they loot. Not even a real player would do that, unless he is a lot more paranoid than me. Wait until THEY loot YOUR stuff, then pewpew. Hmm yes it migt work if you want to kill haulers or bc's/bs's fitted with crap (for looting) and have bs's fitted to the bone with faction gear just watching and they will shoot when you are red to them, but the only guy you might be aggroed to is sitting in a station. now who wants to gank a crap hauler when due to game mechanics you cant flag to the nice raven sitting there with 1-2 Bill worth if faction stuff... what will be the next change ? removal of the wardec system (its broken anyways). why dont the carebeares ask for no weapons in high sec also (a bit off topic i know).. lets face it why shood the wrecks belong to the owners off the mission and not the one that killed it. since no matter who the owner is, the ones that do steal get flaged, and can be shot (only applyes to high sec tho). ------------------------- Opinions are my opinions. They do not reflect view of UCAM, if it is not stated
WCPistolPete	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Yeah right, like people only hunted down ISK sellers. We all know that there was a lot of griefing going on with people 'stealing' other people's wrecks in missions, and destroying mission critical stuff to harrass the mission player in case the mission player popped the wrecks. Productive missionrunners win, parasiting griefers lose. Whine more. Yuo obviously haven't looked into the palyers that comprise UCAM. Next! WCPistolPete
WCPistolPete	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:40:00 - [58] Originally by: Strak Yogorn Originally by: Zhao Ni The solution to farmers is silly simple. Have a small crew of 3 or 4 people from CCP pose as 'ISK sellers' to the ISK companies. Sell them the ISK, take their money, remove the ISK from their account, and ban the account. Company is out the RL money, and the in-game ISK. You rinse and repeat this enough it will either: 1. Make ISK so silly expensive, it just won't be worth purchasing. 2. Dissuade them from selling completely. it wont work.. why ? because ccp WANTS the sellers to mess with the game. how else would they still be here, when its so damn easy to get rid of them... IRL ISK sellers use the IRL profits to buy more accounts and farm more ISK, just like any good business reinvests in itself to expand. Why do you think there are almost 40,000 players online? It's very difficult for any company to drop it's best customers and take a loss to profits. WCPistolPete
Mr Nash	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:45:00 - [59] Well Now I really can't tell who is a farmer or not.. If your not in corp.. I'm taking your wrecks,Salvage And your ship if you shoot.. I'll shoot your mission take the bounty for the kills also.. Corp up now you have a reason.. I might not steal from you. Stupid Logic like some posted on this thread.. Wow this a good thing he'll do my missions for me.. I will still own all the wrecks... I like this... STUPID...........Logic............ Nash Welcome to EVE Single Player Version.....
MongWen	Posted - 2008.03.14 00:49:00 - [60] Originally by: Recalesence Ok Now I completely understand your plight. that actually sounds like fun to hunt isk farmers, get a SUPERGANK CNR in range of them and a few basilisks making a love triange and you'd tank em for years. Id love to see that, dont suppose you have any footage from how you used to do it? if you want i can send you a link in game to the fraps vids. since we dont want all the trafic form china again (odd i know) Originally by: Arkedon This could work in your favor if you just want to bug the heck out of the "isk farmers". Just loot as much as you can and eat into their profits and they cannot even shoot you if they wanted to. This may be less fun than actually fighting with them but you still get to annoy them. The idea of dropping your own cans seems plausible. If they bite, then it is their turn to flash red to your entire corp. That is part off what we do, but we want to take on the farmers fitted with faction gear. since that leads to more loss to them than a few mil worth off loot/salvage. and few if any off them will not take from a can unless they can get away with out risk.. ------------------------- Opinions are my opinions. They do not reflect view of UCAM, if it is not stated



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