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GAME OVER: ISK Farmers and sellers win

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Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:27:00 - [91] Originally by: Guddah Just to clarify, our intended target was only ever chinese mission farmers. We would always leave legits alone. We arent common thiefs to the standard players, just those that farm 23/7 on a rotating shift pattern. Chinese people are perfectly entitled to play Eve. Farming missions is not against the rules. Account sharing and ISK selling are EULA violations, but not something you could prove. You are just making excuses. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Dorah Hawkwing Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:28:00 - [92] Originally by: Guddah Can I just say that at this moment in time our only target was chinese mission farmers. All they will do now is use a char that can use level 4 agents and sit him in station accepting all the missions. His friends will then go on to do the missions without anyone ever being able to aggro to the actual "shooters". The mission owner will own all wrecks no matter who shoots them. The only attack method against these guys now is ganking, which you can only do for so long. Let the war commence Uhm.. maybe if you hadn't advertised the idea here in the thread, less folks would know about the method. Now.. I guess there'll be more immune mission runners.. (aka all who read this and own an appropiate alt)
damage done 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:39:00 - [93] Originally by: Gnulpie So? The 'farmers' had the right to attack you, and? Now you steal from wrecks and the alt in the station (if there is any!) got the right to attack. More or less the same thing. No 'farmer' would attack you, why should they?! So you gained nothing in the first case and you lose nothing from the change. Farmers WOULD attack, please read the threads and look for the videos and ask the people who made a living out of doing this before you post. Also, so you can steal from their wrecks and the person running the mission cant shoot you. People who say you can now steal their wrecks without fear of retaliation....here's a point: they WANTED the farmer to retaliate so they could kill the guy. Now their biggest loss is the mission loot, thats nothing like the loss of a faction ship. I cant believe that people are argueing for this, you're all probably mission runners yourself and guess what? Now that the farmers who usethis are protected, the only people who are vulnerable to this tactic....are YOU.
Komen Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:43:00 - [94] I have a question, I've long wondered about. How do you go about telling an isk farming account? I'd assume length of online time per day (illegal account sharing or macros) is one indicator. Secondly, if you encounter me in game, and I'm missioning - it's to buy shiny new pew pew toys. If I don't respond to convos, I'm probably just feeling antisocial. Cheers, and good luck. Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:55:00 - [95] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/03/2008 12:56:10 Another little point whete this idea is bad but don't help macro as the OP claim: No tractor beam on not owned cans if the owner is docked/in another system even if he is a member of teh gang. This whole thread is arguing 2 different points: - the change is good/bad; and generally it is bad in my opinion - the change help sweatshop workers as the OP claims or not?; and, again in my opinion, it don't help them, the points the OP and friends have posted are generally baseless when referred to sweatshop workers while they are valid for regular players (exactly the reverse of what OP and friends claim).
Salliene RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:14:00 - [96] Yes, it is unfortunate that the change that CCP made benefits the farmers. However do you think that you were making any sort of REAL difference in regards to the ISK selling industry? I mean there are plenty of people out there "hunting farmers" yet Jita is still clogged with farmers and ISK farmers still advertise all over the net. They are still obviously running a profitable business despite the best efforts of the player base. ISK selling is bad. Hyperbolic drama queen whining because you can't go out and pirate behind a razor thin veil of morality anymore is worse.
Loyal Servant Viper Intel Squad	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:20:00 - [97] Lets recap how CCP has boosted farmers in the last 6 months: 1. latest thing, can't can flip a farmer in his mission. 2. need more firepower to suicide gank one because of concord buffs. 3. cannot scan for their can farms or wrecks anymore. Tin foil: CCP has got to have someone that has invested in them that is pushing their buttons to have them stealth boost farmers every patch... and I do mean literally the last 3 patches have boosted farmers in some fashion. So, it is now okay to farm missions with -0- risk? Players rarely get harassed in their mission, it's farmers that do. Farmers control this game now boys, the OP is right. Players: 0 Farmers: 3 As a farmer hunter this is a massive nerf to me. Boost patch contained more nerfs than anything else. Perhaps I should give up while people fund mega alliances with farmed isk and eventually take over the game and when there is nothing left then, something might happen? I can only hope. So, why is ccp messing with my sig?
Krollin Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:20:00 - [98] Salliene, You may well be right. The demand within EVE must be so high for ISK and modules. What UCAM, Ki Shoda and others do has impact, granted only a small impact, but it is what we have chosen to do within EVE. If my figures are correct UCAM have done over 30billions isk worth of ship damage to farmers, not including salvage and mission drop modules, plus the time taken for farmers to replace ships, modules etc - within the last couple of months, the overall total is alot higher of course. It is an element of EVE I enjoy :) Some call it griefing, some call it doing what CCP should be doing. Everyone has an opinion, and I have mine :) Kro
Salliene RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:24:00 - [99] Originally by: Krollin It is an element of EVE I enjoy :) Some call it griefing, some call it doing what CCP should be doing. Everyone has an opinion, and I have mine :) Kro That's what is important, that you enjoy EVE as a game. Just make sure that you don't get "Real Life" upset over stuff that happens in A GAME. Plus, what fun would it be if it were EASY to kill the farmers. CCP has just upped the difficulty level so when you DO kill some farmers, you have more to brag about!
Loyal Servant Viper Intel Squad	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:25:00 - [100] Originally by: Salliene Originally by: Krollin It is an element of EVE I enjoy :) Some call it griefing, some call it doing what CCP should be doing. Everyone has an opinion, and I have mine :) Kro That's what is important, that you enjoy EVE as a game. Just make sure that you don't get "Real Life" upset over stuff that happens in A GAME. Plus, what fun would it be if it were EASY to kill the farmers. CCP has just upped the difficulty level so when you DO kill some farmers, you have more to brag about! Fact is, it's easier to kill a bob mom than it is to kill farmers, and that is not far from the truth. So, why is ccp messing with my sig?

Krollin Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:30:00 - [101] Salliene, Thank you for your words of encouragement. We will of course continue to do what we have always done and adapt to the change and continue are quest..... I would still like to know why this change was put into affect. It does nothing to protect mission runners from your 'typical' griefer, but aids the mission farmers. sigh Im off to the pub, anyone care to join me, im buying! Kro P.S EVE is a game and always will be, I cannot believe people get overly intwined with it!
Luh Windan Republic University	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:35:00 - [102] Originally by: Loyal Servant 3. cannot scan for their can farms or wrecks anymore. is this still true? from the missions and exp channel it would seem that wrecks are back on the radar (so to speak). For your theory to be true & given your own admission that what you do is a niche activity - you must have been making a significant impact on Isk farmers for the CCP to have bothered nerfing your activities.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:38:00 - [103] Originally by: Vagel Find some other's to grief allready. And yes - by using that lame aggro tactics you utilized before, it WAS griefing, nomatter how you try to justify it to yourself. Grow some ***** and go fight some peep's in lowsec or 0.0 Or cry some more here - want a cookie? you do realize there is no change to legitimate mission runners... I'm sure they will be willing to grow some balls and go to lowsec/0.0 just as soon as you do
Buyerr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:44:00 - [104] Originally by: Krollin I have to say I was enjoying the new patch until I discovered something that means there is now no risk to ISK farmers/sellers. How can an alt sit in a station and own wrecks that he or she has not had a hand in destroying. Groups of farmers can now more easily farm missions with NO risk of being attacked as they dont own the wrecks.... Can someone please explain to me why on earth this was put into the game, it makes no sense to me.... Cheers, Kro loled, (how you can attack them by them owning the wracks doesn't really make since, unless YOU are using a exploit since it is NOT a valid mechanic that would let you do this) so actually you should be banned for using an exploit dude ;) I declare war on stupidity
Lady Karma State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:47:00 - [105] Originally by: Buyerr loled, (how you can attack them by them owning the wracks doesn't really make since, unless YOU are using a exploit since it is NOT a valid mechanic that would let you do this) so actually you should be banned for using an exploit dude ;) Try reading the thread before you post
Cyne Spurr MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:49:00 - [106] Originally by: Buyerr loled, (how you can attack them by them owning the wracks doesn't really make since, unless YOU are using a exploit since it is NOT a valid mechanic that would let you do this) so actually you should be banned for using an exploit dude ;) It was no exploit, just the normal rules of aggression, I think you are missreading something there ;)
Buyerr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:54:00 - [107] Edited by: Buyerr on 14/03/2008 13:57:09 Originally by: damage done Originally by: Gnulpie So? The 'farmers' had the right to attack you, and? Now you steal from wrecks and the alt in the station (if there is any!) got the right to attack. More or less the same thing. No 'farmer' would attack you, why should they?! So you gained nothing in the first case and you lose nothing from the change. Farmers WOULD attack, please read the threads and look for the videos and ask the people who made a living out of doing this before you post. Also, so you can steal from their wrecks and the person running the mission cant shoot you. People who say you can now steal their wrecks without fear of retaliation....here's a point: they WANTED the farmer to retaliate so they could kill the guy. Now their biggest loss is the mission loot, thats nothing like the loss of a faction ship. I cant believe that people are argueing for this, you're all probably mission runners yourself and guess what? Now that the farmers who usethis are protected, the only people who are vulnerable to this tactic....are YOU. wtf?! unless YOU use a exploit(unintended use of a feature/game mechanic) there is no way some one that would not like to attack you. aka ANY mission runner that would use this new way of missioning, would ever do. if he use this method it is because he don't want the RIGHT to shoot you. and if they don't want it IT IS THEIR FREAKING CHOICE!!!!!! why do people think that they should have the right to choice if others want the "right" to attack them so they can make them attack them by ACCIDENT!!! get real ffs.. and stop misusing mechanics to do stuff that was not intended.. I declare war on stupidity
Lady Karma State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.14 13:57:00 - [108] Originally by: Buyerr clueless ramblings Do you Buyerr Isk?
Cyne Spurr MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:03:00 - [109] Originally by: Buyerr Edited by: Buyerr on 14/03/2008 13:57:09 Originally by: damage done Originally by: Gnulpie So? The 'farmers' had the right to attack you, and? Now you steal from wrecks and the alt in the station (if there is any!) got the right to attack. More or less the same thing. No 'farmer' would attack you, why should they?! So you gained nothing in the first case and you lose nothing from the change. Farmers WOULD attack, please read the threads and look for the videos and ask the people who made a living out of doing this before you post. Also, so you can steal from their wrecks and the person running the mission cant shoot you. People who say you can now steal their wrecks without fear of retaliation....here's a point: they WANTED the farmer to retaliate so they could kill the guy. Now their biggest loss is the mission loot, thats nothing like the loss of a faction ship. I cant believe that people are argueing for this, you're all probably mission runners yourself and guess what? Now that the farmers who usethis are protected, the only people who are vulnerable to this tactic....are YOU. wtf?! unless YOU use a exploit(unintended use of a feature/game mechanic) there is no way some one that would not like to attack you. aka ANY mission runner that would use this new way of missioning, would ever do. if he use this method it is because he don't want the RIGHT to shoot you. and if they don't want it IT IS THEIR FREAKING CHOICE!!!!!! why do people think that they should have the right to choice if others want the "right" to attack them so they can make them attack them by ACCIDENT!!! get real ffs.. and stop misusing mechanics to do stuff that was not intended.. The standard tactics required no misusing of game mechanics, it was all about becoming a flagged target to the ISK-farmer/trader, and either prompting them to attack you (which is not to hard) or getting them to become flagged to you ( a bit tougher). As I said, you seem to misreading something .
Yuki Santara Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:07:00 - [110] It's not an exploit, but clearly it is not the point of any law to trick people into breaking it for your advantage. Just because you used this mechanism against the right people doesn't mean that the system is good. So now inexperienced mission runners are better protected against this tactic (also mission runners are protected from legally getting their objectives stolen), which is a good thing in my opinion. An interesting idea was brought up in this thread and I would like to know what is wrong with it: Shoot down an alt in rookie ships at the site to plant fake wrecks. The killing char could even be in the same rookie corp as the alledged "farmers", so the only way the wreck would differ to them from a mission wreck would be by its type name. Add some valuable loot as bait and it's just like fishing. If farmers are stupid enough to shoot you when you turn flashing red, you can't tell me they aren't likely to take from a bait wreck every once in a while. And this is a tactic that would only really work with farmers using the method you have been talking about in this thread, so no harm would be done.

Sicariidae Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:08:00 - [111] Why couldn't CCP just license the sales of isk through authorized dealers. Any one can then offer thier isk to an authorized dealer for sale. This would effectively FLOOD the market driving down the cost to purchase isk in real dollars/euro's or whatever. So now the 1 billion isk that cost's $30 U.S. now might cost $5-$7 U.S. after the market starts getting flooded and prices go down. Chinese isk farmers thrive because they have relatively NO compition. If CCP allows any eve player to sell isk through authorized scources the isk farmers must now potentially compete with every one who plays eve. The impact on those who farm isk to make an actual living will be forced to compete or get out of it completely. IMHO the economics are relatively simple. ----------------------------- EVE EULA: Pilot pay monthly fee CCP does what it wants Pilot suffers the consequence
Ki An Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:10:00 - [112] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Buyerr clueless ramblings Do you Buyerr Isk? That's not how you do it. This is how you do it: Isk Buyerr I presume? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Buyerr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:13:00 - [113] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Buyerr clueless ramblings Do you Buyerr Isk? ?! ? you have made a quoet that is incurrect from what i have said. please correct it dude... and you don't make any sense at all s I declare war on stupidity
topken101 Legend's Descendants of Earth	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:20:00 - [114] I have'nt done any mission's since the patch so trying to catch up to what's going on with the mission wreck's. But as for the isk farmers and seller's. CCP is never ever ever going to do anything major to combat this. Do to they make way to much money off these people. Most of the isk farmer's and seller's run there account's off of game cards and they buy those game cards from real player's useing isk. and the real player's get those game cards from ccp or a reseller and they get them from ccp. No matter ccp get's the real money for the game cards that the seller's and farmer's are buying from players selling them.. looking through the game card forum it looks to me that about 50 to 60% if the game card buyer's are farmers and seller's. So doing away with them would cut into CCP game card profit by 50 -60% no company is going to do anything that would cut into their profit by that much. I wish all the hunter's out there the best in changeing the way you help to combat these people. But the fight start's with the game card seller's watch who your selling your card's to. try and weed out the isk farmers and seller's.
Polly Prissypantz Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:20:00 - [115] I vote this thread as the most useless thread on the forums. CAOD excluded since all CAOD posts are useless by default.
Buyerr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:20:00 - [116] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Buyerr clueless ramblings Do you Buyerr Isk? That's not how you do it. This is how you do it: Isk Buyerr I presume? idiot i presume... insert the worst personal attack you can imagine" F-tard. stay at subject. the point is you where misusing a mechanic to trick people. this mechanic was set in so that people who got their stuff stolen could choice to revange it, not so people could use it to trick others to attack them so they could kill them. this was never the intention when the mechanic was said into place, so this makes it a "unintended use of mechanic" which is = exploit. the fact that ccp don't have ANY exploits, just features they didn't "think off" is the main reason these things are okey cough, pos bowling, cough* this is a work around (exploit) to stop a exploit that was already being used (since this new mechanic was not set in there to have a alt in a station getting the kill rights). so there you got it, exploit to stop a exploit.. if it was up to me you would all be banned if you kept doing this (since it is a exploit) peace out I declare war on stupidity
Annaphera The Green Machine	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:31:00 - [117] Originally by: Loyal Servant Lets recap how CCP has boosted farmers in the last 6 months: Yes, let us examine these "boosts" and see how they affect ONLY the farmers. Originally by: Loyal Servant 1. latest thing, can't can flip a farmer in his mission. Which means you can't flip a normal runner, either. I know you don't want to hear this and will try to deny it, but there are plenty of people out there who are regular mission runners who get the same tactic you say you use on farmers used on them. Second, I can't for the life of me imagine why a farmer would attack you in the first place...I'd think one blown ship would be all it took for them to realize attacking you would be a waste of time and resources, and thus hurt their bottom line. Farmers, from my understanding, are strongly encouraged not to gank their own bottom line. I'm guessing what you're really targeting is some corp out having fun. Originally by: Loyal Servant 2. need more firepower to suicide gank one because of concord buffs. Yep, that's of benefit only to the farmers...and if you believe that, I've got some ocean-front property in Kansas to sell you. Yes, it may affect the farmers, but to accuse CCP of deliberately aiding farmers on that one is silly. Originally by: Loyal Servant 3. cannot scan for their can farms or wrecks anymore. Again...it may affect farmers, but I somehow doubt they were the intended primary beneficiaries of this change. Seriously, man - take off the tinfoil hat and start thinking about the bigger picture. Or else quit EVE and go back to camping out at Area 51 or something.
Krollin Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:36:00 - [118] Edited by: Krollin on 14/03/2008 14:36:49 Annaphera, You will be surprised as the amount of farmers who do engage once you have been flagged. Check out the MacroIntel killboard (link posted earlier in this thread). These changes; I assume were intented to help legitimate mission runners from being griefed by erm griefers, but I don't see how this has helped.... But by implementing the change it has made it harder to get flagged to farmers, granted we will find new methods to achieve our goal. All I want to know is why this change was put into affect, was it to protect the carbear mission runners in high sec (so much for risk and reward, more like reward and reward!). Everyone has an opinion and I have stated mine :p Kro
Buyerr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:43:00 - [119] Originally by: Loyal Servant Lets recap how CCP has boosted farmers in the last 6 months: 1. latest thing, can't can flip a farmer in his mission. 2. need more firepower to suicide gank one because of concord buffs. 3. cannot scan for their can farms or wrecks anymore. Tin foil: CCP has got to have someone that has invested in them that is pushing their buttons to have them stealth boost farmers every patch... and I do mean literally the last 3 patches have boosted farmers in some fashion. So, it is now okay to farm missions with -0- risk? Players rarely get harassed in their mission, it's farmers that do. Farmers control this game now boys, the OP is right. Players: 0 Farmers: 3 As a farmer hunter this is a massive nerf to me. Boost patch contained more nerfs than anything else. Perhaps I should give up while people fund mega alliances with farmed isk and eventually take over the game and when there is nothing left then, something might happen? I can only hope. you do forget that the vast majority of the community is NOT pvp'ers and do not want to pvp or be forced into pvp area's. therefore it is about time they give the pve some love in this game I declare war on stupidity
Krollin Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:46:00 - [120] Buyerr, Is EVE not advertised as a PVP game though???? Kro



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