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GAME OVER: ISK Farmers and sellers win

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
syphurous	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:00:00 - [61] Edited by: syphurous on 14/03/2008 01:00:19 I would just like to point out that is impossible to steal a wreck as they belong to no one. You can now go back to the matter at hand which is being able to flag the players who killed the npc. Please keep on topic. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Originally by: GM Faolchu People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:09:00 - [62] Originally by: DaveW I'm glad this game breaking issue has been addressed. There could be as many a five to ten people leave EVE because of this. ISK buyer spotted...kill kill
Dron Yenko	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:27:00 - [63] Would be nice to see what CCP has to say about all this...
Sawny Bean	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:31:00 - [64] Edited by: Sawny Bean on 14/03/2008 01:31:37 It seems ironic that ccp can be bothered to argue whether or not shield and resist changes are a nerf or boost, and yet can not seem to be bothered to clarify whether the wreck ownership change is a nerf to farmer hunters or a boost to isk sellers...
Ilvan	Posted - 2008.03.14 01:35:00 - [65] Originally by: damage done Originally by: Cors How about, instead of attacking the damned isk farmers, you attack folks who BUY the isk. Maybe Because that Would encourage ISK buyers to buy more ISK? Not if they get permabanned.
Silent Killa	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:03:00 - [66] Just want to say I am very unhappy with the result of this change. I think the change had good intent but leaves a giant risk loophole for the farmers Channel : macrointel http://macrointel.eve-kb.org/
damage done	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:16:00 - [67] Originally by: Ilvan Originally by: damage done Originally by: Cors How about, instead of attacking the damned isk farmers, you attack folks who BUY the isk. Maybe Because that Would encourage ISK buyers to buy more ISK? Not if they get permabanned. Shouldn't they already be permabanned? Or are you allowed to buy ISK once and get away with it? Sure it gives them another chance to slip up and get caught, but they've gotten away with it once, I wouldn't say they definatley wont get away with it a second time.
Ilvan	Posted - 2008.03.14 02:32:00 - [68] Originally by: damage done Originally by: Ilvan Originally by: damage done Originally by: Cors How about, instead of attacking the damned isk farmers, you attack folks who BUY the isk. Maybe Because that Would encourage ISK buyers to buy more ISK? Not if they get permabanned. Shouldn't they already be permabanned? Or are you allowed to buy ISK once and get away with it? Sure it gives them another chance to slip up and get caught, but they've gotten away with it once, I wouldn't say they definatley wont get away with it a second time. From what I recall reading CCP just takes their ISK.
Guddah	Posted - 2008.03.14 07:46:00 - [69] Still no comment from CCP? Funny that
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.14 07:59:00 - [70] GAME OVER: because you can't grief others anymore ... i feel so sorry for you. Best thing you can do now: quit the game. I promise, you won't be missed.

Ki An Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.03.14 08:33:00 - [71] Having thought about this a lot... a LOT... I have come to the conclusion that this is just a way for mission running teams to "turn off" wreck flagging. Anyone who uses this will effectively lose the claim on 'their' wrecks, meaning ninja salvagers can have a massive feeding frenzy without risk of being blown up by mean men in Ravens. I do have a hard time seing how this would boost macros, as if they are organized enough to use this, they would be organized enough to tell their guys NOT to open fire on flashy reds. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 08:41:00 - [72] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/03/2008 08:43:40 Originally by: Krollin Groups of farmers can now more easily farm missions with NO risk of being attacked as they dont own the wrecks.... Can someone please explain to me why on earth this was put into the game, it makes no sense to me.... Originally by: Guddah Im not sure what you are getting at bimbo but let me try and explain. We work by getting aggro from the farmers and them hopefully attacking us. Now because the wreck owner is safely docked in a station this will not happen. I see sevral strange points in this kind of posts: "Groups of farmers can now more easily farm missions with NO risk of being attacked as they dont own the wrecks....", "We work by getting aggro from the farmers and them hopefully attacking us". Now you can steal from the farmer (if they aren't in the same corporation of the main character) without the possibility for them to retaliante. I.e. you can steal with any ship in high sec (rifter, probe, industrial) and Concord will protect you. Exactly how that will help your target? If they are in the same player corp it is exactly as before. "Historically when a mission farmer, or group of farmers entered a mission they were able to kill the mission rats. Which in turn then belonged to them. This then enabled those of us who hunt farmers to steal from multiple wrecks to get alot of aggro." Totally non sequitur. You don't get aggro, you become a valid target for the player you are stealing from. and from his corporation. Again, if the player are all in the same corporation noting change, if they are in different corporations you can freely steal without risk.
Ioci Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.03.14 09:01:00 - [73] In a game where people camp gates in T2 'I win' fleets and farm mail, I am supposed to hate ISK farmers? I understand why people farm ISK. You need it to play. Are there people selling that ISK? Two kinds of people do. ISK sellers and GTC buyers. GTC buyers because they can't for any number of reasons afford to pay for Eve. Sellers because they can't be stopped. If this is about ISk farmers, good. Leave them alone. They aren't bothering you. If it's about ISK sellers, stop buying GTC's. See CCP take notice when 40% of thier accounts cancel out because nobody is supporting that sector of the game. I get a feeling it will get something done about the spam too.
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 09:09:00 - [74] Originally by: Guddah Just to clarify, our intended target was only ever chinese mission farmers. We would always leave legits alone. We arent common thiefs to the standard players, just those that farm 23/7 on a rotating shift pattern. If it is true removing half of the profit from running mission work as well if not better than before.
Krollin Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 09:30:00 - [75] Wow, I am glad my post sparked so much debate. Though it would be nice for CCP to reply with the reasons for the change. As a mission runner I do understand the annoyance of some ninja salvager coming into the mission and stealing the salvage and not being flagged. I also know there is a large percentage of people who will enter a legitimate players mission with a view to gaining aggro using the same game mechanics we do. (For clarification when I refer to aggro I mean being flagged (Flashing Red for further clarification)). My point is simple, if not clear enough for some! The changes that have come into effect do little, if anything to stop the harassment of legitimate mission runners, why? Because as a legitimate mission runner you will actually be doing your own mission, which means if someone enters your mission and loots from your wrecks you still have the OPTION to shoot them. It also still allows salvagers to take the salvage without being flagged. Mission objectives can still be stolen. On the flip side it protects farming mission runners by allowing the mission owner to remain safe inside the station, allowing his/her mission buddies to complete the mission without the risk of becoming flagged to anyone (just to clarify û the mission owner now owns all the wrecks irrespective of who destroys them). Oh it might also be worthwhile mentioning for those of you who donÆt know or understand but mission farmers mainly work in groups; granted there is the odd few who work solo. So taking a typical farming group (Raven, Raven, Dominix, Abbadon, hurricane or tempest as salvager). You can instantly see that there is now no easy way to get flagged to multiple farmers, erm targets. As they abuse, sorry use the starting corps, which prevents anyone from declaring war on them. The farming party now have no risk when in a mission. They can complete the mission, loot and salvage without any fear of accidently taking the wrong wreck. You will never stop farming, it exists because of a need by impatient people who wonÆt or canÆt wait to buy that nice new ship. Really if CCP enforced its own rules there would be no need to hunt these people in the first place. As for comments about ôleave them aloneö, that is very much of a bury your head in the sand attitude. Farming and farmers effect the game economy, if you donÆt believe me, go to Jita, Rens or any Level 4 system and track the markets. Check contracts for faction modules, a good or large percentage will be being sold by ôsdfsdfö or ôEVE Bobö or other such names; who will also be months/years old with little to no standing with anyone. These characters are the ones who filter and siphon the isk to the websites and to the GTC sellers. Everyone will have a view on this and your entitled to it, this is my view. All I ask is that CCP respond explaining the reason for the change, nice and simple....not difficult nor time consuming. Kro
Ioci Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.03.14 09:45:00 - [76] Originally by: Krollin As for comments about ôleave them aloneö, that is very much of a bury your head in the sand attitude. Farming and farmers effect the game economy, if you donÆt believe me, go to Jita, Rens or any Level 4 system and track the markets. Check contracts for faction modules, a good or large percentage will be being sold by ôsdfsdfö or ôEVE Bobö or other such names; who will also be months/years old with little to no standing with anyone. These characters are the ones who filter and siphon the isk to the websites and to the GTC sellers. Everyone will have a view on this and your entitled to it, this is my view. All I ask is that CCP respond explaining the reason for the change, nice and simple....not difficult nor time consuming. Kro U don't get faction loots farming mission in safe sec. How is that the work of farmers? I have a Trader Entrepeneur with a 0.0 sec. The character trades and manufactures. There is no need to have them fighting. Add to that, macro mining would be a far more effective way to make ISk if that's all you want to do. Far less maintenance too. Once machine could handle 4 accounts mining. The same couldn't be said for missions. Mission runners are playing. And they are likely looking for one of those billion plus BP's, not a place to sell ISK. There are better ways to do that. Just my opionion though.
Vagel Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.03.14 09:47:00 - [77] Find some other's to grief allready. And yes - by using that lame aggro tactics you utilized before, it WAS griefing, nomatter how you try to justify it to yourself. Grow some ***** and go fight some peep's in lowsec or 0.0 Or cry some more here - want a cookie?
Krollin Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 09:50:00 - [78] Thank you for your constructive words Vagel! I have already done the 0.0, POS War, anti-pirate stuff. I guess that you don't fully understand the game enough to figure out the impact farmers have. Oh and thanks for the cookie :) Kro
Cyne Spurr MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 09:58:00 - [79] Someone handing out cookies? :D Not overly fond of this change myself, it does nothing to protect legitimate players but clearly provides extra protection for those willing to abuse it. I'm sure CCP do not intend to give extra protection for those who break the games rules but this change does just that :( Will it stop me from doing my bit to combat ISK-traders/farmers in game? No. But it does make it harder to cause them significant trouble/ISK loss. And I am pretty sure that soon we will see a massive amount of whining from the vocal supporters of ISK-trading/farming complaining about the increase in salvage theft from missions they are farming. It is a stupid change and one I can not really see a legitimate reason for.
Cyne Spurr MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 10:01:00 - [80] Originally by: Ki An Look on the bright side, OP. No doubt some people will be terribly surprised when you steal from 'their' wreck, they open fire and Concord comes to the rescue of the poor loot thief. Here's hoping for a few weeks of CNR's popping left and righ... ...until they learn. Crafty buggers. I do hope to see this :D

Yeta Ky'ang Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.03.14 10:02:00 - [81] Unnecessary change was ________ ? [fill in the blank]
Gnulpie Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.03.14 10:27:00 - [82] Originally by: Krollin Hi, Historically when a mission farmer, or group of farmers entered a mission they were able to kill the mission rats. Which in turn then belonged to them. This then enabled those of us who hunt farmers to steal from multiple wrecks to get alot of aggro. So? The 'farmers' had the right to attack you, and? Now you steal from wrecks and the alt in the station (if there is any!) got the right to attack. More or less the same thing. No 'farmer' would attack you, why should they?! So you gained nothing in the first case and you lose nothing from the change. And you say farmer. I call them mission runners. Mission running is one of the biggest parts in Eve, why do you think they are isk-sellers?? Maybe they run missions a week hardcore to support their pvp in 0.0 for a couple of months? But yeah ... every mission runner is evil and an isk seller.
Krollin Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.14 10:33:00 - [83] Gnulpie, I am not saying all mission runners are farmers, but as someone has already said, do you run missions 23/7 with your friends, do you 'share' ships with other keyboard mash named characters. Do you not shout or convo someone who invades your mission. Mission/Mineral farmers exist in EVE, if you dont think they do then you are deluding yourself, but that is your right, you are entitled to your opinion. Enjoy your carebear missions ;) Kro
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:06:00 - [84] Oh well... CCP needs to introduce individual wardecs to deal with NPC corpers anyway , flagging games and the extemes of suicide ganking are inadequate means of highsec warfare. In the meantime... metafarmers is still recruiting no restrictions in lowsec ! Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked I don't believe that a link to a RickRoll video constitutes proof, even in CAOD.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:08:00 - [85] So? Make a career out of jacking their wrecks. Let the farmer sit in station and collect his paltry mission sum. You go collect the real wealth, the salvage and the loot from the wrecks, destroying their income.
Kehmor PAK Red Republic	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:38:00 - [86] From what I understand you operate by stealing from a mission runners wrecks and hoping they attack you. Now surely they either want to protect their wrecks or they don't. If they don't then they won't attack you anyway. If they do, why would they run the mission with a character unable to defend their wrecks? Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
amagon IV Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:42:00 - [87] I for one think this is a stupid thing, the owner of a wreck should be the person who killed the rat, not the person who started the mission.. /signed.
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:53:00 - [88] I still have the impression that the OP post is totally bogus. I don't get what is really the reason tho whine. True effects of the change from a mission runner point of view: 1) higher chance of getting killed by Concord if you do a mission for your alt (I have R&D alts that can get high level missions but can't do combat missions and they get combat storyline missions from agents) if you fight and salvage (BTW: marauder nerf); 2) if for any reason the person running the mission isn't the mission owner concord will own him if for any reason he hit a wreck (and that is a nerf to some semi AFK mission running stile); 3) if the person running the mission and the owner of the mission aren't in the same corporation, anyone can steal the wreck witout fear of retaliation, so a nerf to people doing that in busy mission systems and a boost to thiefs; 4) no effect on people farming isk for selling as they will not engage thiefs. Those doing that are regular players that get angry, not sweatshop people that do EVE as a work; 5) a nerf to inter alliance group missions, as all the wrecks will be owned by 1 player, with higher risk of ship losses to concord from people of other corporations. Essentially the OP and friends seem to think that sweatshop workers usually have 1 high standing character holed in station and other trained characters doing the mission. There is no reason for them to do that as a large percentage of the missions require the person accepting it to deliver something, so he need to receive the target loot to complete the mission. Staing holed in the station he need to get it from one of other characters with an increase of time spent. Again, a character with high standings probablyhas good skills, so it is strange not to use him in a mission, he need to be on line for mission completation so the swatshop workers will not even free a slot on the PC to use another character. So, to sum it up, I see nothing that change how sweatshow workers will operate, while it can have generally negative effects on regular players.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Ki An Look on the bright side, OP. No doubt some people will be terribly surprised when you steal from 'their' wreck, they open fire and Concord comes to the rescue of the poor loot thief. Here's hoping for a few weeks of CNR's popping left and righ... ...until they learn. Crafty buggers. I'm waiting for the bitter, tearful threads with considerable anticipation. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Hitalorl Deep Sea Lovers Inc	Posted - 2008.03.14 12:24:00 - [90] While I really dont get the OPs tactic ( how do you discern macroers from "real" missions runners ?) I havve netvertheless to say: The change CCP did is absolutely useless. It just makes a difference for me as a mission runner when somebody else warps in and starts to kill my targets. Now "his" wrecks are mine ... But I wouldnt really care about that... For all other situation this change is absolutely useless. I wonder why they introduced it...



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