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Amira Shadowsong State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.17 12:31:00 - [31] Originally by: 1Evildude Also, pilgrim can still do allot and actually isn't the worst recon, it's the Arazu at the moment. No the pilgrim is worse then the gallente recons. But the curse is better then the gallente recons. But curse is far behind the minmatar and caldari ones.
Cailais VITOC	Posted - 2008.03.17 14:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Only thing I want to comment, is the Pilgrim fix request. Pilgrim is fine. Compared with the curse, you get to chose your targets more easily. A Curse has to wait in ambush while the Pilgrim can hunt activly. Imagine you get the Nos7Neut bonus on the Pilgrim, why would you fly a Curse? Curse can't fit a Covert Ops cloak but can more safely use it's Nos/Neut. My guess is, that those that complain about the Pilgrim needing a boost are trying to fly it like a Curse. The fact that its the Curse's Nos/Neut range bonus those people want, is a pretty clear indication of the true problem. Being able to 'choose your targets more easily' is frankly useless if 95% of those targets can kill you stone dead. Do you actually fly the pilgrim?? Curse/Pilgrim pilots fly the curse because it has survivability - the ability to operate at range (as per the other races recons). The pilgrim does not have this ability and frankly melts within web range, which it always is. The Pilgrim needs fixing, the Arazu needs fixing - in fact CCP need to go back and look at Electronic Warfare and ALL the recons in detail because at the moment theyre a really daft class of ships. C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Amira Shadowsong State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.17 16:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Cailais The Pilgrim needs fixing, the Arazu needs fixing - in fact CCP need to go back and look at Electronic Warfare and ALL the recons in detail because at the moment theyre a really daft class of ships. C. Yeah they really need to look into the whole recon and e-warfare to rebalance it. Its all messed up now tbh.
Rasta we g guild Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.18 23:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Why didnt these ships get love? Why didnt pilgrim get fixed? Right now pilgrim is the worst recon for solo and for gangs. Absolution needs a 4th mid or it cant really kill anything unless he "has a friend". Sentinel cant even run 1 of its own EW mods without capping out, while other races can just keep full racks of it going inherently. One of the worst EAS out there and as usual caldari and minmatar got the greatest EW ships. /discuss. pilgrim does suck but used right its effective, abso is awsome just plain awesome. and sentinel is same as the curse, curse has stupid cap issues only fair the tiny version should have the same prob
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Rasta we pilgrim does suck but used right its effective, abso is awsome just plain awesome. Thats not even remotely correct. Pilgrim is beyond suck.
sdthujfg State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Originally by: Rasta we pilgrim does suck but used right its effective, abso is awsome just plain awesome. Thats not even remotely correct. Pilgrim is beyond suck. QFT.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.03.20 07:38:00 - [37] Really, the pilgrim is fine? I don't think so. I'm pretty close to the pilgrim but I can't fit it how I want. Now my rapier and huginn can fit 95% of what I want to fit. Main problem is CPU. Now the Amarr flavor of ships state that they have tons of powergrid but little CPU. This is fine, but doesn't translate well to recons. Just like the Amarr flavor of lots of lows slots and few mediums wouldn't make much sense on a recon ship. Consider: Falcon gets 625 CPU Rapier gets 562.5 CPU Arazu gets 525 CPU Pilgrim gets 437.5 CPU With recon IV a covert cloak + recon probe takes up 320 cpu, throw in a 50 cpu mwd and other normal modules like cap injector or TDs that you would want on a Pilgrim and you will CPU out very quickly. But, but, but, with recons V the ship really fits well! -Grats for you bro. But is the Falcon impossible to fit well without Recons V? How about the Rapier or Arazu?
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.20 12:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Vaal Erit Really, the pilgrim is fine? I don't think so. I'm pretty close to the pilgrim but I can't fit it how I want. Now my rapier and huginn can fit 95% of what I want to fit. Main problem is CPU. Now the Amarr flavor of ships state that they have tons of powergrid but little CPU. This is fine, but doesn't translate well to recons. Just like the Amarr flavor of lots of lows slots and few mediums wouldn't make much sense on a recon ship. Consider: Falcon gets 625 CPU Rapier gets 562.5 CPU Arazu gets 525 CPU Pilgrim gets 437.5 CPU With recon IV a covert cloak + recon probe takes up 320 cpu, throw in a 50 cpu mwd and other normal modules like cap injector or TDs that you would want on a Pilgrim and you will CPU out very quickly. But, but, but, with recons V the ship really fits well! -Grats for you bro. But is the Falcon impossible to fit well without Recons V? How about the Rapier or Arazu? QFT. Pilgrim needs billions of different fixes. Its stupidly broken.
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 19:07:00 - [39] The people who say the pilgrim folds and dies to everything in eve are lying. The people who say it doesnt need help are wrong.
C0NRAD 21st Raiders Regiment TWISTED INFECTION	Posted - 2008.04.30 16:53:00 - [40] curse - gang work, she needs protecting pilgrim - solo work
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.30 19:50:00 - [41] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida My take. Pilgrim did get love by way of increased viability of tracking disruptors. It excels as a cloaked scout/covert cyno popper and with buffer+resists can make a tough regular cynoer. Thinking of it as a solo vessel is wrong unless you spend the time to pick your targets, in which case any of the recons will do just as well. You have never flown a Pilgrim. You have no idea what you're talking about. After reading this I didn't bother to read the rest of your text.
Lalita Prestoc	Posted - 2008.05.01 01:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Cailais Please feel free to explain how awesome the pilgrims tracking disruptors are if you're webbed - which you will be using medium neuts. Ermmm 2 TDS with Optimal Range Disruption scripts (added falloff makes them so much better) + your own web @ around 9-10km range means you'll take very little damage from a targets guns. You could really specialize and rather than armour rigs you could use TD effectiveness rigs. For example a Megathron + Neutron T2 using Null (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts) = 1.9 opt + 4.4 falloff. So: 100% damage = 1.9km 50% damage = 6.3km 0% damage = 10.7km a geddon + megapulse T2 using MF (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts) = 2.5 opt + 2.8 falloff. So: 100% damage = 2.5km 50% damage = 5.3km 0% damage = 8.1km a geddon + megapulse T2 using scorch (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts) = 7.6 opt + 2.8 falloff. So: 100% damage = 7.6km 50% damage = 10.4km 0% damage = 13.2km a geddon + megapulse T2 using scorch (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts and 2 TD effectiveness rigs) = 2.5 opt + 2.8 falloff. So: 100% damage = 5.5km 50% damage = 8.3km 0% damage = 11.1km Of course this isn't saying you could take a Megathron/Geddon but demonstrates the TD effect in Web range, if you can reduce large weapons to take minimal damage you can reduce smaller size weapons to.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.05.01 03:41:00 - [43] The Pilgrim has been turned from best solo recon to worst slowly over time, mostly indirectly via multiple patches. #1: ECM nerf (it was uber before this) #2: Nos nerf (HUGE nerf to the Pilgrim) #3: Overloaded webs (no longer can you orbit around 12k) #4: Drone bay nerf (less possible DPS) #5: Drone shield recharge nerf Aside from the nerfs, there's the fairly recent proliferation of MWDs in Eve, much thanks to the introduction of bubbles. When I started playing, it was common for HACs to fit an AB. That's right, players at one time actually used ABs in combat, and to good effect. MWDs used to be mostly limited to interceptors and blaster boats. Now that every ship fits a MWD and 90% WEB, Pilgrim is fusked. Having a tracking disruptor bonus and a neut bonus which has to work in web range is completely oxymoronic. Back when you would orbit with an AB around 12k (outside of web range) and use a tracking disruptor or 2, it actually worked. However, Eve has since changed, a LOT, and the Pilgrim has been left in the dust. To get with the times it needs a range bonus so it can be nanoed like every other HAC/Recon. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.05.01 10:18:00 - [44] pilgrim could be fixed by giving it +700 base cap, and +15-20 cpu imo absolution is fine, it is not meant to solo, but if you do want to solo in it, you discard the web (there is a reason it can shoot to 40km with close range guns). have no knowledge of sentinel but it doesn't seem to be too bad (having piddled around with EFT, and yes I know this doesn't actively reflect ingame)
Kingwood Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.01 10:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Lalita Prestoc Originally by: Cailais Please feel free to explain how awesome the pilgrims tracking disruptors are if you're webbed - which you will be using medium neuts. Ermmm 2 TDS with Optimal Range Disruption scripts (added falloff makes them so much better) + your own web @ around 9-10km range means you'll take very little damage from a targets guns. You could really specialize and rather than armour rigs you could use TD effectiveness rigs. For example a Megathron + Neutron T2 using Null (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts) = 1.9 opt + 4.4 falloff. So: 100% damage = 1.9km 50% damage = 6.3km 0% damage = 10.7km a geddon + megapulse T2 using MF (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts) = 2.5 opt + 2.8 falloff. So: 100% damage = 2.5km 50% damage = 5.3km 0% damage = 8.1km a geddon + megapulse T2 using scorch (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts) = 7.6 opt + 2.8 falloff. So: 100% damage = 7.6km 50% damage = 10.4km 0% damage = 13.2km a geddon + megapulse T2 using scorch (2 Balmer TD with opt dis scripts and 2 TD effectiveness rigs) = 2.5 opt + 2.8 falloff. So: 100% damage = 5.5km 50% damage = 8.3km 0% damage = 11.1km Of course this isn't saying you could take a Megathron/Geddon but demonstrates the TD effect in Web range, if you can reduce large weapons to take minimal damage you can reduce smaller size weapons to. EFT warrior much? I'd appreciate a fraps of you staying at 9km range from a target while getting webbed yourself and the target MWD'ing towards you. Please link once done. I'll pay you 50mil for the effort. I really don't get why people who have no idea what they're talking about have to chime in about a ship desperately needing a boost saying it's fine.
Kingwood Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.01 10:54:00 - [46] Oh god, I just re-read this and saw you're using 2 TD's. First, tracking disruption speed is the only viable script to use for a close-range boat like Pilgrim, especially against BSs.. Second, please link me the setup you're using, lossmail maybe? Since you feel able to chime in, you're obviously flying this ship. And third, I would really really appreciate a fraps of your Pilgrim against a good PvP'er. I will pay you 50mil for the effort. I'm waiting for this with great anticipation. Or, if you don't have fraps, some killmails. That would do fine too.
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.05.01 11:32:00 - [47] I disagree, range disruption works better in web range, where your transversal is minute anyway
Sonya Rayner REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.01 11:50:00 - [48] We all should look at other ship's bonuses: Minmatar: Rapier (force) 7.5% to TP effectivenes per cruiser, 60% to web range per recon; 4/6/4 layout; Huginn (combat) 7.5% to TP effectiveness per cruiser, 60% to web and 5% RoF for AM/HM/HAM launchers; 4/6/4 layout; Caldari: Falcon (force) -10% ECM cap usage, +20% ECM optimal per cruiser, +20% to strength per recon; 4/7/3 layout; Rook (combat) -10% ECM cap usage, +20% ECM optimal per cruiser, +20% to strength per recon; +20% to strength and 5% to HM/LM kinetic damage per recon; 6/7/2 layout; Gallente: Arazu (force) 5% to RSD effectiveness per cruiser, +20% to scrambler/disruptor optimal per recon; 4/6/4 layout; Lachesis (combat) 5% to RSD effectiveness per cruiser, +20% to scrambler/dispruptor optimal and 5% to RoF for AM/HM launchers per recon; 5/7/3 layout; Amarr: Pilgrim (force) 5% to TD effectiveness per cruiser; +20% to nos/neut effectiveness per recon; 4/5/5 layout; Curse (force) 5% to TD effectiveness per cruiser; +20% to nos/neut effectiveness and +40% to nos/neut range per recon level; 5/6/4 layout; (i intentionally left out the cruiser's skill bonus for damage sice it's same for both recons and left out role bonus and cloaking device bonus on force recons) Now let's see the differences between each race's force and combat recons. Minmatar: Combat recon (Huginn) gets +5% RoF for AM/HM/HAM launchers; no layout differences; Caldari: Combat recon gets +5% kinetic damage for LM/HM; +2 hi, -1 low, +1 slot overall; Gallente: Combat recon gets +5% RoF to HM/AM launchers; +1 hi, +1 med, -1 low, +1 slot overall; Amarr: Combat recon gets +40% nos/neut range bonus; +1 hi, +1 med, -1 low, +1 slot overall; Now i ask you: which one of these stand out? Bingo, it's the amarr recon! It gets a second bonus for its recon EW role instead of 5% missile-related bonuses. All other race's combat and force recons are similar in their EW capability (minus the slot layout differences) the only difference being the combat ones getting some damage bonus and force recons getting cloaking bonuses. Why should i choose Huginn over Rapier for webbing/target painting? Why should i choose Rook over Falcon for jamming? Why should i choose Lachesis over Arazu for tackling/dampening? Why one amarrian recon is clearly superior to other on the battlefield of EW while other races recons aren't? Now let's see what roles people usually use the abovementioned recons. Minmatar: Going somewhere? (webbing, yeah, that's obvious). Anyone ever seen rapier/huginn targetpainting an enemy? Caldari: Jam the sh!t out of them! (and nothing else, caldari do only one thing, but they do it very well i must add) Gallente: You're not going anywhere! (dampening and scrambling the targets) Amarr: Crap, where'd all my cap gone?!? (neuts and tracking disruptors in some situations) So, basically they all are used to somehow disable either ship's attacking potential or defences (tank, speed, run away). In rare ocassions - both. And given all these roles for particular race both of their recons perform similarly. Well, except for the pilgrim, which doesn't get all of its combat counterpart's EW bonuses! Now, how this can be fixed? 1) remove some ew bonuses to make other races' force recons less powerful in the EW field as their combat counterparts; 2) remove +40% optimal bonus for nos/net from curse and replace it with +5% to missile damage or similar missile-related bonus; 3) give some optimal for nos/net to pilgrim (it may be not +40%, +20% will do just fine) - it'll still be a bit worse than curse, but a much more viable for combat than it is now; 4) give some nos/net cap usage bonuses to pilgrim - so at least if it can't neut from long range, it could do it more effectively; 5) replace pilgrim's nos/neut effectiveness bonus with optimal bonus - it can't nos/neut as effectively as curse but will be still a viable option due to cloaking ability; ____________________
Sonya Rayner REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.01 11:51:00 - [49] reserved for continuation, soon™ ____________________
Kingwood Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.01 11:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Kingwood on 01/05/2008 12:03:05 No range bonus, Pilgrim is a solo close range ship and should stay that way. Either revert the NOS nerf for Amarr recons or give the Pilgrim better resists and more Cap/way better cap recharge. But I'm gonna wait for your next post to comment. Edit: In response to Captator: Please please tell me how you keep 9km (webbed, anyone?) distance from your target continouusly. If you have 2 TD's you have no speed mod. If you have a speed mod you only have 1 TD. I would love to hear your secret, please share. You know that at 9km the target will either burn away or close range, depending on whether the pilot knows what he's doing and feels the ship can handle the Pilgrim, right? Please share. Awaiting with anticipation.
Kingwood Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.01 12:10:00 - [51] Edited by: Kingwood on 01/05/2008 12:13:41 Originally by: Sonya Rayner Eve wouldn't be fun if all ships had the same layout and same playstyles, would it? No ship in eve is meant to be solopwnmobile (¬ some Dev, can't remember who exactly). edit: i hope someone from CCP reads this. although i'm sure they're already have considered most of the possible ways to balance pilgrim out. That statement was from Zulupark. The guy who changed ship resists across the board in order to "boost" Amarr. So, you're saying Eve wouldn't be fun if all ships were the same, but are contradicting yourself by stating in the next sentence that no ships should be able to solo? The Pilgrim and Curse are cap warfare ships. A role which makes them solo or very small gang ships. People like me like these ships because we hate the large gangs and blobs most of Eve consists of at the moment. You change these ships, I will switch to Rapier, Sacrilege, or Vagabond for solo ability. Hey, let's nerf these ships too, while you're at it. Make a post about it. Edit: Ships like the Pilgrim is what makes Eve unique. Stop advocating a change of their intended role, and focus on fixing their blatant brokenness?
Sonya Rayner REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.01 12:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Kingwood Originally by: Sonya Rayner Eve wouldn't be fun if all ships had the same layout and same playstyles, would it? No ship in eve is meant to be solopwnmobile (¬ some Dev, can't remember who exactly). edit: i hope someone from CCP reads this. although i'm sure they're already have considered most of the possible ways to balance pilgrim out. That statement was from Zulupark. The guy who changed ship resists across the board in order to "boost" Amarr. So, you're saying Eve wouldn't be fun if all ships were the same, but are contradicting yourself by stating in the next sentence that no ships should be able to solo? The Pilgrim and Curse are cap warfare ships. A role which makes them solo or very small gang ships. People like me like these ships because we hate the large gangs and blobs most of Eve consists of at the moment. You change these ships, I will switch to Rapier, Sacrilege, or Vagabond for solo ability. Hey, let's nerf these ships too, while you're at it. Make a post about it. You got it all wrong. Solopwnmobile != able to solo. I, myself, hate the blobs too. I prefer 5-10 people gangs. And i prefer a good old plate-tanked armageddon slicing and dicing its way through enemies with laz0rz. I also loved the pilgrim when it was intorduced to the game. But now there's only a miserable remains of what used to be a great solo/small gang ship. And that must be changed. What i'm stating is, that pilgrim should be brought in-line with other recons as for now it is clearly inferior to them. ____________________
Kingwood Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.01 12:21:00 - [53] Edited by: Kingwood on 01/05/2008 12:21:28 Edit: Awesome, I checked. You sure love flying in large blobs, though I didn't see you in a Curse or Pilgrim. I'll keep checking, maybe I didn't look hard enough. I see where you're coming from, senseless to keep arguing with you. That above was my second edit. Maybe I misunderstood you then. The gang size a Curse or Pilgrim are valuable in is 3 ships at max, imo. I will re-read your posts and see where I misunderstood you.
Lalita Prestoc	Posted - 2008.05.01 13:41:00 - [54] Edited by: Lalita Prestoc on 01/05/2008 13:42:26 Originally by: Kingwood Oh god, I just re-read this and saw you're using 2 TD's. First, tracking disruption speed is the only viable script to use for a close-range boat like Pilgrim, especially against BSs.. Second, please link me the setup you're using, lossmail maybe? Since you feel able to chime in, you're obviously flying this ship. And third, I would really really appreciate a fraps of your Pilgrim against a good PvP'er. I will pay you 50mil for the effort. I'm waiting for this with great anticipation. Or, if you don't have fraps, some killmails. That would do fine too. Troll much? Never said it would take BS, was just demonstrating that if you can reduce large turrets using long range ammo down so you take practically no damage when in web range think what sort of range mediums turrets will have. I never said the Pilgrim doesn't need anything, I was just pointing out how strong TD's are. But hay, lets just flame and troll. Wheres your loss mails or fraps to show how rubbish a pilot you are? Don't have to prove anything to you mr troll, the fact you think Tracking disruption scripts are best highlights this point. What also highlights this point is you arn't decloaking and webbing the target and letting him MWD. Go suck somewhere else and put words in other peoples mouths.
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.05.01 14:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Kingwood In response to Captator: Please please tell me how you keep 9km (webbed, anyone?) distance from your target continouusly. If you have 2 TD's you have no speed mod. If you have a speed mod you only have 1 TD. I would love to hear your secret, please share. You know that at 9km the target will either burn away or close range, depending on whether the pilot knows what he's doing and feels the ship can handle the Pilgrim, right? Please share. Awaiting with anticipation. Quite simply they don't have any cap to run propulsion mods, and are hard pressed to run a web on me.
Endless Subversion Club Bear	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:15:00 - [56] Op has this totally right. Pilgrim is hurting badly. Lack of a role and inability to actually survive fights in current eve environment. Sentinel is garbage. Why would I ever fly that ship over a curse? And why would I fly a curse over a sac for solo or pretty much any nanohac for gang? Absolution: Lol. Any setup without a gang mod begs the question, "Why don't you bring a BS?". Furthermore with 3 mids it wastes one of the very few advantages commands/bcs have over BS which is their locktime for tackling. Too bad you can't tackle with 3 mids slots and laser cap usage. The only good thing about absolutions is salvaging the ones you blow up. Self Destruct & LogOffs
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Kingwood No range bonus, Pilgrim is a solo close range ship and should stay that way. Back when the Pilgrim actually worked as a solo close range ship, people also armor tanked Curses and Ishtars. The difference is that in this nano-age, Curses and Ishtars were able to adapt, whereas the Pilgrim couldn't due to it's limitations. Close range fighting these days ends up with you getting webbed. Pilgrim used to fight outside of web range (if only by a small amount) but that made all the difference. Overloaded webs make sure that's not possible anymore. Just a 5% range bonus per level would be enough. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Kingwood Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.01 19:53:00 - [58] Originally by: Lalita Prestoc Edited by: Lalita Prestoc on 01/05/2008 13:42:26 Originally by: Kingwood Oh god, I just re-read this and saw you're using 2 TD's. First, tracking disruption speed is the only viable script to use for a close-range boat like Pilgrim, especially against BSs.. Second, please link me the setup you're using, lossmail maybe? Since you feel able to chime in, you're obviously flying this ship. And third, I would really really appreciate a fraps of your Pilgrim against a good PvP'er. I will pay you 50mil for the effort. I'm waiting for this with great anticipation. Or, if you don't have fraps, some killmails. That would do fine too. Troll much? Never said it would take BS, was just demonstrating that if you can reduce large turrets using long range ammo down so you take practically no damage when in web range think what sort of range mediums turrets will have. I never said the Pilgrim doesn't need anything, I was just pointing out how strong TD's are. But hay, lets just flame and troll. Wheres your loss mails or fraps to show how rubbish a pilot you are? Don't have to prove anything to you mr troll, the fact you think Tracking disruption scripts are best highlights this point. What also highlights this point is you arn't decloaking and webbing the target and letting him MWD. Go suck somewhere else and put words in other peoples mouths. Lossmail: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Kingwood&id=3335575&page=1&filter=losses#mail A buddy in a curse and me jumped a baiting Ferox who had a buddy in a Hurricane in system. Then 2 more of corpmates showed up and I was dead really fast. Killmails: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Kingwood&id=3335574&page=1&filter=kills#mail Killed a Sabre while tanking a Rapier and 2 Falcons. http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Kingwood&id=3333587&page=1&filter=kills#mail Fight was Falcon + Pilgrim vs. Deimos, 2 Ruptures, Thorax and Blackbird. (Rupture pilot and Deimos pilot returned in Blackbird and Thorax) http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Kingwood&id=3328972&page=2&filter=kills#mail Fight was Rupture and Pilgrim vs. Thorax and Vexor. Now show me your killmails. For now I think you're just an EFT warrior. And don't sound so butthurt, please.
Kingwood Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.05.01 20:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Kingwood No range bonus, Pilgrim is a solo close range ship and should stay that way. Back when the Pilgrim actually worked as a solo close range ship, people also armor tanked Curses and Ishtars. The difference is that in this nano-age, Curses and Ishtars were able to adapt, whereas the Pilgrim couldn't due to it's limitations. Close range fighting these days ends up with you getting webbed. Pilgrim used to fight outside of web range (if only by a small amount) but that made all the difference. Overloaded webs make sure that's not possible anymore. Just a 5% range bonus per level would be enough. I didn't fly the Pilgrim back before the NOS nerf, so I will let others who did give input. I can't really imagine that working, tbh. If I was fighting a Pilgrim I would either burn away or close range, depending on whether I feel my ship is capable of taking on a Pilgrim. Neuting cap doesn't mean that much when I fit a cap booster, so I will always be able to turn on my MWD. Anyways, I'm out of this thread.
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.01 21:43:00 - [60] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 01/05/2008 21:43:59 4th mid on an abso? C'mon give me a break about the 'friend' comment, try flying caldari and tell me if you need a 'friend' I can't see how amarr pilots still continue to complain about their ships when ccp is actively trying to make them better. Within the last 6 months amarr has got the biggest boost... I think you guys should be happy with what you got. Sigh, greed is annoying. I can understand the pilgrim issue though. Don't hate me, learn to love me

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