| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zorok
LEGI0N
   |
Posted - 2008.03.14 22:00:00 -
[1]
The devs have said that local was never meant to be used for intel purposes- I do not believe this. If this was true, why is it that the local channel is the only channel that can't be closed? I believe the local channel was created for this exact purpose.
That being said, I understand that people who fly covert-ops ships feel that they really aren't that covert when everyone in local can see them. I do agree that covert ops ships should have the ability to appear anonymous in local but at a significant cost. First off I propose a high-slot module that will anonymize a person but with a few caveats- it can only be used on a ship that has a covert-ops cloaking device fitted. Also, equipping this module will cause a 3 min targeting delay. What will happen when a person with this module equipped enters local, they will appear with a ? instead of a portrait and the word "Anonymous" will appear instead of their actual name.
There are many reasons to do things this way rather than the devs proposed changes.
1. War targets will be more difficult to find.
- Using scanners to find ships is great and all but how do you know if there are any war targets at all in a system when it's filled with +50 ships. Good luck trying to scan down each ship.
2. Allowing griefers to target industrial ships or ratting ships while taking very little risk themselves in doing so just isn't right. Local is the only way that non-macroing miners and ratters can be aware of any danger.
|
Ilvan
Post with your Brain
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 22:45:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Zorok
The devs have said that local was never meant to be used for intel purposes- I do not believe this. If this was true, why is it that the local channel is the only channel that can't be closed? I believe the local channel was created for this exact purpose.
"I know more about the game than the people who made it"
Quote:
That being said, I understand that people who fly covert-ops ships feel that they really aren't that covert when everyone in local can see them. I do agree that covert ops ships should have the ability to appear anonymous in local but at a significant cost. First off I propose a high-slot module that will anonymize a person but with a few caveats- it can only be used on a ship that has a covert-ops cloaking device fitted. Also, equipping this module will cause a 3 min targeting delay. What will happen when a person with this module equipped enters local, they will appear with a ? instead of a portrait and the word "Anonymous" will appear instead of their actual name.
Because that's not a huge tip-off.  A big "potential hostile" indicator is going to pretty much have the same effect as "<X> from corp <Y>, alliance <Z>".
Quote:
There are many reasons to do things this way rather than the devs proposed changes.
1. War targets will be more difficult to find.
- Using scanners to find ships is great and all but how do you know if there are any war targets at all in a system when it's filled with +50 ships. Good luck trying to scan down each ship.
Maybe that's the point? To make warfare less of a cut-and-dried thing and to make ambushes, feints, evasive maneuvers and pincer attacks possible (without having to resort to logging/alts).
Quote:
2. Allowing griefers to target industrial ships or ratting ships while taking very little risk themselves in doing so just isn't right. Local is the only way that non-macroing miners and ratters can be aware of any danger.
Outlaws need more reward. As it stands low-sec is pretty much worthless.
|
Zorok
LEGI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 23:06:00 -
[3]
I would return a comment but your excuses sound more like troll "bait" than anything else. Your first "one-line" argument stated that I am presumptuously stating that I know more about the game than the devs. The devs themselves said this during their podcast. I won't comment on your last comment since I have no desire to enter an argument off topic.
|
d3vo
Airborne Assassins
Order of the Black Cross
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 23:34:00 -
[4]
Edited by: d3vo on 14/03/2008 23:34:36
never heard that said...close local and not be listed in it
ccp said it is for chatting purposes...
/signed
LET IT BE DONE!!!
|
Sargeant HAmmer
Hammers Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 00:05:00 -
[5]
if you couldnt talk in local then it would be an intel box, as you can its useful to gain corp members and to see if your friends are nearby.
Its useful in high sec :)
The only suggestion I have is 0.4 and below could have the local box changed so that it isnt in immediate mode eg dont show the players til they talk
|
Ilvan
Post with your Brain
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 08:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zorok
Edited by: Zorok on 14/03/2008 23:11:24
I would return a comment but your excuses sound more like troll "bait" than anything else. Your first "one-line" argument stated that I am presumptuously stating that I know more about the game than the devs. The devs themselves said this during their podcast. I won't comment on your last comment since I have no desire to enter an argument off topic.
You had stated that by indicating how many is in local would be a tip-off but this is exactly what CCP had proposed in leu of local as it is now.
It wasn't troll bait. I'm just a bit too blunt, I guess. Sorry.
Frankly, leaving any indicator of system population strikes me as doing this half-assed... I wonder what CCP is really trying to accomplish here.
I've been of the opinion for a long time now that EVE is too... "secure". Too easy to scout, too easy find or avoid enemies, too easy to lock-down systems. I really wish they'd make it more of the dark and dangerous universe they say it is.
|
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:04:00 -
[7]
An idea:
1. Set local channel so that in 0.0 space pilots are only visible in the local channel if they speak. Pilots who do not speak would be invisible in the channel.
2. Add the option of an auto-refresh to the directional scanner, making it a viable option for spotting incomming ships without constantly clicking on it.
3. Return the ALT key functionality of activating the little square on your own ship (useful for aligning the scanner when using small scanning arcs, like 5 degree) and useful for locating objects in space for both scanning and "warp to" points.
With this alternative, pilots in 0.0 would need to rely on directional scanners (with the auto-refresh option) to spot incomming ships. The owner of the ship would be a mystery unless contact was made via chat channel or the ships get within visual range of each other.
This option could easily fit into the scheme of things. It could be said that the auto-populating of pilot identities in the local channel is a security/convenience of empire space. Because it is a security service, it is Concord provided. Essentially it's nothing more than a local "Directory" service.
Outside of Concord protected space, the directory service is not provided. There is of course, the same open comm channel, but because there is no service provider for the "Directory", the presence and identity of pilots in the local system can only be known if that pilot actually uses the channel and broadcasts.
I think there could be great fun and tension in the moments when groups of ships detect each other on scan, but have not identified each other. The concept of "hailing" the other ship on the local channel to identify them could emerge in some areas and a "ettiquete" of identification or silence may develop with different groups. Think of submarine movies with the crews silently trying to find and identify other submarines via blips and pings before giving up their own identity by breaking radio silence.
Miners, ratters, etc, could rely on the scanner (that's still auto-refreshing) and be prepared to warp away or cloak at the first blip of an unknown ship detection.
Idea concluded.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Kitoba
Legion of Dynamic Discord
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:49:00 -
[8]
"We are hailing them with open gun ports"
"Open gun ports? Who ordered that?"
"It's the way our caste has always done it. It shows respect for the other, you go out with your hands open, weapons unconcealed."
The rest is history.
I propose disabling the member list completely in any location-based chat in sec <.5 and make message sending directional and signal strength based, not entirely unlike the scanner, with an option to either send one's identity and/or ship class or not. Incoming messages would be displayed with direction of origin.
If send signals contain their strength, a range could be calculated, too. Making any of this information fakeable would allow for mean tactics, so I guess people want to have it.
To balance this off, make things like cyno fields emit such great radio disturbances that they broadcast themselves across at least the whole solar system.
|
Zorok
LEGI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 19:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zorok on 15/03/2008 19:34:03
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
An idea:
Miners, ratters, etc, could rely on the scanner (that's still auto-refreshing) and be prepared to warp away or cloak at the first blip of an unknown ship detection.
This sounds like a pretty good idea to implement too. It's a pain having to hit the scan but constantly when you are looking for hostiles. Obviously, this is far from how things would work in reality since most radar systems continually scan.
|
Raqem
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.03.15 20:40:00 -
[10]
How about this:
1) Eliminate Local Chat and enable Constellation chat.
2) Implement a "system-wide" scanner in addition to the directional scanner fixed at 999AU / 360 deg.
With this solution, pilots could easily keep tabs on a system. However, when someone enters the system, the pilot is unknown, but the shiptype is not(assuming you are periodically refreshing the system scanner). Roaming gangs don't have to comb through a system searching for targets; they can enter a system and know approximately how many ships are in local system entering, although they will be unable to determine locations or hostility. In order to find a ship, "traditional" methods such as the <14AU directional scan or scan probes would be use
It would provide protection for people in a system who watched their scanners for new potential targets. For example, imagine you're ratting solo in a system and there is a hostile in constellation chat. Start checking the system scanner. Suddenly, a Vagabond appears on the system scanner. Time to safespot. However, for gankers, this does not make things impossible. It makes people keep an eye on constellation chat, and be refreshing their scanner looking for a potentially dangerous ship. Most people simply won't do this, and ignorance and laziness are no excuse, especially outside of highsec.
Feedback, as always, is welcome.
|
Zorok
LEGI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 20:11:00 -
[11]
I think that the system scanner however should be auto-refreshing- clicking a button on and on is a bit monotonous and if you're dealing with rats and other distractions, clicking the button frequently is nearly impossible. Also, corp and gang mates ships should be auto tagged on the scanner as this would accurately reflect a true FoF system that exists even in today's world.
|
SereneSally
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 22:17:00 -
[12]
I think a radar should be implemented
|
Zhen Zhu
NEW DAWN CO
INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 22:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Zhen Zhu on 16/03/2008 22:32:09
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
An idea:
1. Set local channel so that in 0.0 space pilots are only visible in the local channel if they speak. Pilots who do not speak would be invisible in the channel.
2. Add the option of an auto-refresh to the directional scanner, making it a viable option for spotting incomming ships without constantly clicking on it.
3. Return the ALT key functionality of activating the little square on your own ship (useful for aligning the scanner when using small scanning arcs, like 5 degree) and useful for locating objects in space for both scanning and "warp to" points.
With this alternative, pilots in 0.0 would need to rely on directional scanners (with the auto-refresh option) to spot incomming ships. The owner of the ship would be a mystery unless contact was made via chat channel or the ships get within visual range of each other.
This option could easily fit into the scheme of things. It could be said that the auto-populating of pilot identities in the local channel is a security/convenience of empire space. Because it is a security service, it is Concord provided. Essentially it's nothing more than a local "Directory" service.
Outside of Concord protected space, the directory service is not provided. There is of course, the same open comm channel, but because there is no service provider for the "Directory", the presence and identity of pilots in the local system can only be known if that pilot actually uses the channel and broadcasts.
I think there could be great fun and tension in the moments when groups of ships detect each other on scan, but have not identified each other. The concept of "hailing" the other ship on the local channel to identify them could emerge in some areas and a "ettiquete" of identification or silence may develop with different groups. Think of submarine movies with the crews silently trying to find and identify other submarines via blips and pings before giving up their own identity by breaking radio silence.
Miners, ratters, etc, could rely on the scanner (that's still auto-refreshing) and be prepared to warp away or cloak at the first blip of an unknown ship detection.
Idea concluded.
I like this idea.. its very similar to my recent post expounding on a more extensive overhaul of our current system. I think there is much more needed than simply "eliminating" local. A new system of detection is needed in place of local chat. Something more realistic such as improved sensor funtions...
This opens up possibly new roles, ship types, modules, deployables sensor generators.. Both defensive and offensive countermeasures can be used for added dimensionality in the game!
Use sensor sweeping logistic modules or ships to pinpoint unwary and unprepared victims!
Or with a bit more planning you could use sensor suppression modules or deployables to suppress enemy sensor sweeps.. the larger the fleet the harder to hide (ANTI BLOB!) Make it easier for smaller pvp gangs to get some good kills undetected..
Or a dream come true for a determined industrialist! Make it possible with deployable sensor suppression fields to make covert mining ops in low sec or 0.0 a possibility!
Make any large fleet light up like a beacon with a multiple system overlap. A fleet of say 20-30+ should trigger sensor grids in an entire constelation or region..
Sovreign specific station fitting modules for even larger sensor grid sweeps.. allowing the determined and organized alliances more of a strategic advantage then even local chat provided.. and for the foolish and uncooperative.. a new target for aggressors... take out their sensor grids and its lights out! Lay waste to their unwary pilots within!
See my post on this here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=727636
|
Amro Freighter
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.03.16 23:24:00 -
[14]
Man this idea of having only people that speak show in local is completely pathetic and stupid. Why on earth can you talk across EVE universe but your ships computer can not tell you when some one enter a system.
Like really, thats like saying my car can go real fast, but has no brakes. We have the technology to make it go really fast but we can not use that technology to invent brakes.
How about, when ever a ship is 400km from a station or gate they show in local, or a ships has to use a gate or dock you show in local.
Or why not come up with a hacking skill that you have to target the gate and hack it so when you jump into a system you will not show on local and depending on the sov level in 0.0 will determine the chance that you can hack it.
Or how about every time some one enters a system a big loud pep noise goes off. So every one gets warned and you pirates and cover ops can get into a system and ppl will have to scann you out.
But i do not see why we can fly spaceships and have all this amazing technology in EVE, but are ships computer can not tell us when some that has to dial into the gate to get access to warp in comes into system.
|
Zhen Zhu
NEW DAWN CO
INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.03.17 00:06:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Zhen Zhu on 17/03/2008 00:07:28
Originally by: Amro Freighter
Man this idea of having only people that speak show in local is completely pathetic and stupid. Why on earth can you talk across EVE universe but your ships computer can not tell you when some one enter a system.
Like really, thats like saying my car can go real fast, but has no brakes. We have the technology to make it go really fast but we can not use that technology to invent brakes.
How about, when ever a ship is 400km from a station or gate they show in local, or a ships has to use a gate or dock you show in local.
Or why not come up with a hacking skill that you have to target the gate and hack it so when you jump into a system you will not show on local and depending on the sov level in 0.0 will determine the chance that you can hack it.
Or how about every time some one enters a system a big loud pep noise goes off. So every one gets warned and you pirates and cover ops can get into a system and ppl will have to scann you out.
But i do not see why we can fly spaceships and have all this amazing technology in EVE, but are ships computer can not tell us when some that has to dial into the gate to get access to warp in comes into system.
The man has a point.. I like the idea that a system gate will broadcast a ship entry.. especially in Empire space.. I really think a system or constellation communication for empire system should "automaticly" log you on.. basicly keeping local chat for high sec.
Low sec and 0.0 where empires have less control.. this is where it should get interesting..
No longer will gates broadcast system entry of fleets..no longer will you automaticly be signed into system or constellation communication channels...yes for those unequiped.. low sec and 0.0 will be an intimidating venture.. those with the skill and equipment should be able to peel away this vale and shroud of fog..this is where sensor sweeps and other intel should take over.. making lawless space.. that much more mysterious.. that much bigger.. that much more inviting to the fearless and those seaking wealth and glory.. and that much more intimidating for the faint of heart.
However what if alliance owned space (in turn with high sovreignty levels owning the gates) gates might tell of incoming jumps to... the controlling alliance. Only with significantly high sovreignty levels should this be possible.
|
Zorok
LEGI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.17 02:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Amro Freighter
Man this idea of having only people that speak show in local is completely pathetic and stupid. Why on earth can you talk across EVE universe but your ships computer can not tell you when some one enter a system.
...
But i do not see why we can fly spaceships and have all this amazing technology in EVE, but are ships computer can not tell us when
some that has to dial into the gate to get access to warp in comes into system.
This is my point exactly...unlike the other person's reply about lowsec and 0.0, I believe that this would also be a good way to go about doing things. You really don't need to worry about pirates in high sec space anyhow on account of Concord. It's the lowsec systems and 0.0 where watching the local channel is crucial to survival. Taking that away or only making local a channel where only those who speak appear, is ridiculous. I'm sure there are many more industrial players and ratters who will steadfastly agree. If CCP can't come up with a system that is agreeable by all sides, they should simply keep local the way it is. No sense in fixing something IMO that really isn't broken.
|
Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations
Friend or Enemy
|
Posted - 2008.03.17 08:50:00 -
[17]
"No longer will gates broadcast system entry of fleets..no longer will you automaticly be signed into system or constellation communication channels...yes for those unequiped.. low sec and 0.0 will be an intimidating venture.. those with the skill and equipment should be able to peel away this vale and shroud of fog..this is where sensor sweeps and other intel should take over.. making lawless space.. that much more mysterious.. that much bigger.. that much more inviting to the fearless and those seaking wealth and glory.. and that much more intimidating for the faint of heart."
Not good for encouraging people to come away from hisec at all. Automation makes life easier for everyone and THAT encourages expansion into riskier areas. Local has to stay or it will get nerve-wracking in lowsec.
What we need is a way to customize local so we can moniter only hostiles and neutrals, local is too big everywhere and you only need to keep it visible for priority targets. If you can shrink local(minimize and have it blink when they enter too) that way everyone will be thrilled.
|
TimMc
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2008.03.17 13:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
An idea:
1. Set local channel so that in 0.0 space pilots are only visible in the local channel if they speak. Pilots who do not speak would be invisible in the channel.
2. Add the option of an auto-refresh to the directional scanner, making it a viable option for spotting incomming ships without constantly clicking on it.
3. Return the ALT key functionality of activating the little square on your own ship (useful for aligning the scanner when using small scanning arcs, like 5 degree) and useful for locating objects in space for both scanning and "warp to" points.
With this alternative, pilots in 0.0 would need to rely on directional scanners (with the auto-refresh option) to spot incomming ships. The owner of the ship would be a mystery unless contact was made via chat channel or the ships get within visual range of each other.
This option could easily fit into the scheme of things. It could be said that the auto-populating of pilot identities in the local channel is a security/convenience of empire space. Because it is a security service, it is Concord provided. Essentially it's nothing more than a local "Directory" service.
Outside of Concord protected space, the directory service is not provided. There is of course, the same open comm channel, but because there is no service provider for the "Directory", the presence and identity of pilots in the local system can only be known if that pilot actually uses the channel and broadcasts.
I think there could be great fun and tension in the moments when groups of ships detect each other on scan, but have not identified each other. The concept of "hailing" the other ship on the local channel to identify them could emerge in some areas and a "ettiquete" of identification or silence may develop with different groups. Think of submarine movies with the crews silently trying to find and identify other submarines via blips and pings before giving up their own identity by breaking radio silence.
Miners, ratters, etc, could rely on the scanner (that's still auto-refreshing) and be prepared to warp away or cloak at the first blip of an unknown ship detection.
Idea concluded.
Good idea thats been said about 5 billion times.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |