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Zylla
Ishukone Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.22 02:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've tried looking through the forums for an easy to understand description of how the bonuses work and not found anything so I'm asking here.
Just using Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control as an example:
The module reduces the capacitor need of the fleet's personal and targeted armor repair systems.
The T1 gives a -2% bonus The T2 gives a -2.5% bonus,
Assuming that the specialist skill is trained to 5 (which is needed for the T2) is the 0.5% a big deal (I'm assuming there is stacking going on). I'm not mathematically gifted so if we could keep it somewhat simple it would be appreciated. |
Liam Mirren
273
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Posted - 2012.02.22 02:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
There's a lot of multipliers going on with skills and ship bonuses. End result is that on a damnation (and that's not even the best ship for it, gang bonus wise) the T1 gives some 25% resists and the T2 gives 32%. That's a big increase whichever way you look at it. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
39
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Posted - 2012.02.22 07:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
set up eft to have 2 chars.
one char setup for your booster stuff. either current stats or dream sheet it. fit a ship they boost will boost in as well.
make your combat char. Set that first booster char as booster at whatever level you want for a commander for tis combat char. Select that booster ship you made for em
See how your stats change. |
Katherine Starlight
Apex Tech Xenogenesis Alliance
30
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Posted - 2012.02.22 11:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skill specialization, 100% per level from lvl2 Warfare Link Specialist 10% per level Command ship bonus, 3% per level. MIndlink, 50% bonus in the end
I cant rember the mathematic part of how they stack up,. i think it is ^ order but the results i do know
armor/shield/skirmish 2 base = 25.88% 2.5 base = 32.34%
skirmish interdiction maneuvers (point/web range) 3 base = 38.81% 3.75 base = 48.52% |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
147
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Posted - 2012.02.22 12:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Katherine Starlight wrote:Skill specialization, 100% per level from lvl2 Warfare Link Specialist 10% per level Command ship bonus, 3% per level. MIndlink, 50% bonus in the end
I cant rember the mathematic part of how they stack up,. i think it is ^ order but the results i do know
armor/shield/skirmish 2 base = 25.88% 2.5 base = 32.34%
skirmish interdiction maneuvers (point/web range) 3 base = 38.81% 3.75 base = 48.52%
The loki with all 5 skill, t2 link and mind link implant is 52.73%
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Bibosikus
Inside out. The G0dfathers
41
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:
The loki with all 5 skill, t2 link and mind link implant is 52.73%
.. which gives an L5 recon pilot in an Arazu with RF Disruptor a 91.6km point. And a similar pilot in a dual TS web Rapier the same range.
Winsauce. The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Lili Lu
178
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Posted - 2012.02.23 00:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Katherine Starlight wrote:Skill specialization, 100% per level from lvl2 Warfare Link Specialist 10% per level Command ship bonus, 3% per level. MIndlink, 50% bonus in the end
I cant rember the mathematic part of how they stack up,. i think it is ^ order but the results i do know
armor/shield/skirmish 2 base = 25.88% 2.5 base = 32.34%
skirmish interdiction maneuvers (point/web range) 3 base = 38.81% 3.75 base = 48.52% The loki with all 5 skill, t2 link and mind link implant is 52.73% And when the balancing patch comes the command ship will receive the better bonus, as it should. CCP acknowledges it was a mistake to make tech III ship command subsystems perform better than command ships. |
Jaudark
Quebec Criminals Association Mayhem.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote: And when the balancing patch comes the command ship will receive the better bonus, as it should. CCP acknowledges it was a mistake to make tech III ship command subsystems perform better than command ships.
got any link to a devblog/forum thread where CCP acknowledges it and talks about a fix for that obvious problem? |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
27
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Posted - 2012.02.23 19:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:[And when the balancing patch comes the command ship will receive the better bonus, as it should. CCP acknowledges it was a mistake to make tech III ship command subsystems perform better than command ships.
I hope they follow through on that; "Strategic Cruiser" or not, it's a bit disheartening to skill up to be able to fly a Fleet Command Ship, only to be told a T3 does it better. |
Jaudark
Quebec Criminals Association Mayhem.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.23 19:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Lili Lu wrote:[And when the balancing patch comes the command ship will receive the better bonus, as it should. CCP acknowledges it was a mistake to make tech III ship command subsystems perform better than command ships. I hope they follow through on that; "Strategic Cruiser" or not, it's a bit disheartening to skill up to be able to fly a Fleet Command Ship, only to be told a T3 does it better.
it's also take as much time to fly the fleet CS as to get into a dreadnaught. so takes less time to get into a t3, to do a better job then a Fleet CS. illogical |
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Mona X
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
56
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Posted - 2012.02.23 20:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you'll get into all Tech 3s, then it takes more time. I need new signature. |
Diesel47
Sons of Retribution Malice Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.02.24 01:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
There is nothing wrong with a T3 giving better bonuses than a fleet command ship. When you fit a T3 with 3 ganglinks you are taking its ability to do anything else but to sit in a safespot and give bonuses.
The fleet command ship can give 3 bonuses with ease and be able to tank loads and fight on grid with its fleet.
They serve different roles, when you go for a T3 command ship you make the trade off of making it a one trick pony.
If you train for a fleet command ship for the purpose of offgrid booster then it is your own fault for doing no research. Eve is a game that rewards being smart about your decisions, Shoulda trained a T3. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
503
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Posted - 2012.02.24 02:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Katherine Starlight wrote:Skill specialization, 100% per level from lvl2 Warfare Link Specialist 10% per level Command ship bonus, 3% per level. MIndlink, 50% bonus in the end
I cant rember the mathematic part of how they stack up,. i think it is ^ order but the results i do know
armor/shield/skirmish 2 base = 25.88% 2.5 base = 32.34%
skirmish interdiction maneuvers (point/web range) 3 base = 38.81% 3.75 base = 48.52% The loki with all 5 skill, t2 link and mind link implant is 52.73% Total Link Bonus = Link Bonus * Link Specialization Skill * (1 + Warfare Link Specialist * 10%) * 1.5 Mindlink Implant Bonus * (1 + Ship Skill * Ship Skill Bonus)
Command Ship Bonus = 3% / level Total Link Bonus = 2.5% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 3%) = 32.34% Total Link Bonus = 3.75% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 3%) = 48.52%
Strategic Cruiser Defensive Subsystem Bonus = 5% / level Total Link Bonus = 2.5% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 5%) = 35.16% Total Link Bonus = 3.75% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 5%) = 52.73%
Note: You need Link Specialization Skill 5 to use the mindlink implant. |
Katherine Starlight
Apex Tech Xenogenesis Alliance
32
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Posted - 2012.02.24 02:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: Total Link Bonus = Link Bonus * Link Specialization Skill * (1 + Warfare Link Specialist * 10%) * 1.5 Mindlink Implant Bonus * (1 + Ship Skill * Ship Skill Bonus)
Command Ship Bonus = 3% / level Total Link Bonus = 2.5% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 3%) = 32.34% Total Link Bonus = 3.75% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 3%) = 48.52%
Strategic Cruiser Defensive Subsystem Bonus = 5% / level Total Link Bonus = 2.5% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 5%) = 35.16% Total Link Bonus = 3.75% * 5 * (1 + 5 * 10%) * 1.5 * (1 + 5 * 5%) = 52.73%
Note: You need Link Specialization Skill 5 to use the mindlink implant.
Thats it, thanks.
Yeah i figured command bonuses command ships, altho command ships still have one what to say advantage over T3s boosting, they can be ongrid, strategic cruisers almost always are offgrid. Which means the booster gets part of the fun and KMs aswell. |
Mona X
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
56
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Posted - 2012.02.24 14:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Katherine Starlight wrote: Yeah i figured command bonuses command ships, altho command ships still have one what to say advantage over T3s boosting, they can be ongrid, strategic cruisers almost always are offgrid. Which means the booster gets part of the fun and KMs aswell.
Command ships can be on grid taking love from entire enemy fleet and valuable WL and targeting slots from logistic pilots, while offgrid T3s just die silently from couple enemy ships, warped to their location by spies. I need new signature. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
514
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Posted - 2012.03.20 16:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
You can have an ongrid Loki Booster, you just need to have a reason to do it.
The fact is as long as offgrid boosting is a possibility, there will not be a reason to bother with them outside of specific uses.
The bigger issue is that Field Command Ships aren't as good as people want to say they are.
They lose more than half their DPS for going full boosting, and although viable on the field, are rarely seen as such. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
1
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Posted - 2012.03.22 15:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:There is nothing wrong with a T3 giving better bonuses than a fleet command ship. When you fit a T3 with 3 ganglinks you are taking its ability to do anything else but to sit in a safespot and give bonuses.
The fleet command ship can give 3 bonuses with ease and be able to tank loads and fight on grid with its fleet.
They serve different roles, when you go for a T3 command ship you make the trade off of making it a one trick pony.
If you train for a fleet command ship for the purpose of offgrid booster then it is your own fault for doing no research. Eve is a game that rewards being smart about your decisions, Shoulda trained a T3.
* The addition of 300 dps to a fleet justifies risking to lose % bonuses to the entire flett, as well as them being lower than they would with a T3 booster, NOT.
* Some people actually trained for Command ships before there were any T3s or even dreams of T3s in wee future devs mind. No amount of research could help there...
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1111
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Posted - 2012.03.22 15:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Crellion wrote: * Some people actually trained for Command ships before there were any T3s or even dreams of T3s in wee future devs mind. No amount of research could help there...
I have to admit that I trained Command Ships 5 three times after T3s were released.
-Liang
Ed: Not to say anything bad about your point - you're right. Just pointing out that I thought it worthwhile to train CS5 even though I knew they weren't the best gang boosters. The Absolution and Astarte may have had something to do with this. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
2
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Posted - 2012.03.22 15:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Crellion wrote: * Some people actually trained for Command ships before there were any T3s or even dreams of T3s in wee future devs mind. No amount of research could help there...
I have to admit that I trained Command Ships 5 three times after T3s were released. -Liang Ed: Not to say anything bad about your point - you're right. Just pointing out that I thought it worthwhile to train CS5 even though I knew they weren't the best gang boosters. The Absolution and Astarte may have had something to do with this.
Lies it's common knowlledge you did it for the Eos, cause green is sexy! (sure hope it's still green... havent seen one for at least 2-3 reskins and gfx updates...
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ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
15
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Posted - 2012.03.23 15:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Three things:
The argument over whether T3 or CS is better should NOT assume that you're trading off one ship for another. The reality is that most corps have a number of members with T3 boosting alts. So the choice is actually, for say a 6-player gang, whether to bring a setup that uses a CS (6 ships, where one of the ships on grid is pretty crap for fighting) or a setup that uses a T3 (7 ships, where all ships on grid are optimized for fighting).
I, too, saw a quote where CCP said they were looking into changing the boosting balance between T3 and CS. I don't feel like looking it up now, though.
Any balance should probably nerf the T3, not boost the CS. Fleet bonuses are simply way too high these days; they are pretty much mandatory to stay competitive. Even folks like Garmon, who don't leave home without fleet boosters, admit that. |
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OfBalance
Caldari State
222
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Posted - 2012.03.23 16:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote:Any balance should probably nerf the T3, not boost the CS. Fleet bonuses are simply way too high these days; they are pretty much mandatory to stay competitive. Even folks like Garmon, who don't leave home without fleet boosters, admit that.
I'm going to go ahead and agree with this before the drama queens come in to badpost it to death. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
192
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Posted - 2012.03.23 16:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Its true, the T3 booster is simply amazing, who WOULDNT want a free invul, or a 50% longer tackle range etc
Definitely dont blame the "lame players" for using it, its sorta like FALCON - its there so its used. |
Joyelle
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.03.24 04:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Its true, the T3 booster is simply amazing, who WOULDNT want a free invul, or a 50% longer tackle range etc
Definitely dont blame the "lame players" for using it, its sorta like FALCON - its there so its used. When the problem affects me negatively, there is definitely something wrong but when I'm one of the benficiaries, gf. This makes perfect sense tbh. |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
181
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Posted - 2012.03.25 06:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
If it is good, they will come.
Or, I don't blame people for using the tools at hand. But it does seem rather unbalanced that the jack-of-all-trades T3 gives better boosting bonuses than the dedicated command ships.
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
72
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Posted - 2012.03.25 18:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
T3: Jack of All trades, master of most. The baseline T3 setup has 6 skill bonuses and all the slot, tank, and speed of a tier 4 cruiser.
I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it is the definitive answer to "what subcap ship should I fly for X". |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
172
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Posted - 2012.03.25 23:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:T3: Jack of All trades, master of most. The baseline T3 setup has 6 skill bonuses and all the slot, tank, and speed of a tier 4 cruiser.
I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it is the definitive answer to "what subcap ship should I fly for X".
Well to be fair I would say it is the definitive answer to "what subcap shop should I fly for X, if I have the isk
Considering the base cost of a T3 is in many cases double its T2 counterpart, and even more fitted. Not to mention I lose a sub level if I get blown up. |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
12
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Posted - 2012.03.25 23:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:T3: Jack of All trades, master of most. The baseline T3 setup has 6 skill bonuses and all the slot, tank, and speed of a tier 4 cruiser.
I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it is the definitive answer to "what subcap ship should I fly for X". Well to be fair I would say it is the definitive answer to "what subcap shop should I fly for X, if I have the isk Considering the base cost of a T3 is in many cases double its T2 counterpart, and even more fitted. Not to mention I lose a sub level if I get blown up.
How do you get blown up if you are not on grid? Only by failing terribly at Eve.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
172
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Posted - 2012.03.26 00:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:T3: Jack of All trades, master of most. The baseline T3 setup has 6 skill bonuses and all the slot, tank, and speed of a tier 4 cruiser.
I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it is the definitive answer to "what subcap ship should I fly for X". Well to be fair I would say it is the definitive answer to "what subcap shop should I fly for X, if I have the isk Considering the base cost of a T3 is in many cases double its T2 counterpart, and even more fitted. Not to mention I lose a sub level if I get blown up. How do you get blown up if you are not on grid? Only by failing terribly at Eve. Because I was forgetting this thread started as command bonuses and was replying to the poster who was making a more general statement about T3's |
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