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Forluhn Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:16:00 - [1] I'm sick and tired of reading thread after thread about how CCP is a terrible company... Lets put things into perspective here. #1 This is the MOST complex MMO out to date. #2 This game holds the record for most players on one MMO server at a time. #3 Expansions are FREE... FREE... #4 The game itself can be downloaded for FREE. #5 They are always developing new content to help the game push the envelope. I could go on all day... Now having said these 5 things lets remember how small a company CCP actually is. Take the number of employes of CCP and compare it to say Blizzard... enough said.
Dramund Atonement Arms	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:21:00 - [2] I agree, but don't worry about CCP. Millions of hate threads are a known occupational hazard of hosting an MMORPG + Official Forums.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:45:00 - [3] Originally by: Forluhn #4 The game itself can be downloaded for FREE. #5 They are always developing new content to help the game push the envelope. I could go on all day... Now having said these 5 things lets remember how small a company CCP actually is. Take the number of employes of CCP and compare it to say Blizzard... enough said. omfg please. I don't want to flame or get into any dicsussion now about Eve or CCP but please at least make a somewhat solid argument. Somewhere on the internet I can download a client that lets me access some online database with very priviledged information for upwards of $1000/month. Now tell me: Do I get the service for free? Being able to download the game for free is such a moot point. As if staring at a login screen all day does any good to anyone. Aside all discussions about good or bad, Eve costs money to "use". I see it every month on my credit card bill. It costs a monthly fee. Which you may apply to #3 also. Which is very much redundant with #5. Sorry, those moot arguments you made simply sound incredibly fanboyish just because they're so incredibly wrong. --
shuckstar Hauling hogs	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:07:00 - [4] Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Originally by: Forluhn #4 The game itself can be downloaded for FREE. #5 They are always developing new content to help the game push the envelope. I could go on all day... Now having said these 5 things lets remember how small a company CCP actually is. Take the number of employes of CCP and compare it to say Blizzard... enough said. omfg please. I don't want to flame or get into any dicsussion now about Eve or CCP but please at least make a somewhat solid argument. Somewhere on the internet I can download a client that lets me access some online database with very priviledged information for upwards of $1000/month. Now tell me: Do I get the service for free? Being able to download the game for free is such a moot point. As if staring at a login screen all day does any good to anyone. Aside all discussions about good or bad, Eve costs money to "use". I see it every month on my credit card bill. It costs a monthly fee. Which you may apply to #3 also. Which is very much redundant with #5. Sorry, those moot arguments you made simply sound incredibly fanboyish just because they're so incredibly wrong. Couldnt of said it better myself Cheyenne
OzakiFragments School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:16:00 - [5] 1. EVE is pretty damn complex, but I'm not sure about the most complex out of every MMO. Plus EVE is different than any other MMO, you can't really compare complexity there.. 2. WOW holds the most subscribers to date. Who cares if you can hold 40k on one server, they got 6million on thousands. There are countless other games that have more subscribers and online players than what EVE has. Sure its a cookie cutter MMO, but still more people play it = more money, and in terms of a company thats all that matters to them. 3. Maplestory, expansions are free. L2, expansions are free. There are so many games that offer free expansions. I could keep going. 4. Many games can be downloaded for free. 5. If they didn't try to push the envelope everytime they wouldnt exist anymore considering people would just leave and play other games. It's true CCP doesnt have the same amount of employees as Blizzard, which is the problem; because recently, they seem pretty short staffed.
Cottage Pie Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:26:00 - [6] 1)perhaps ironically it's not hard to make something complex. 3)Expansions are free? well would you have payed for them is a better way of putting it. 2)the large server thing still? tell that to everyone who gets stuck in the login screen for a night when trying to play the endgame. Besides just think of how many alts/trial accounts are logged in... 4)As you can with, uhm, every other mmo I know of. They all charge a small fee to create the account/for the client though, including ccp. 5)how very abstract of you, thats what mmo games companies do, hell why do they charge a monthly fee? it's their obligation to continually improve and maintain the game. and i'm not sure what your last point is...could you eloooocidayte??
Haks'he Lirky Dominion Imperium	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:26:00 - [7] If people are so bitter that they feel the need to flame this thread then I wonder why they still continue to pay CCP for services rendered? I do not care what you feel is wrong about their practices, there is no such thing as a perfect company, I am sorry to burst your bubble of fantasy fairy dust. CCP is in this to make money, they will do what they think is acceptable to make money, if they make a few people annoyed in the process then that is acceptable (especially since those annoyed people seem to pay anyway and then vent their frustrations on the forums). Capitalistic Bitterness, so sweet and cuddly.
Dramund Atonement Arms	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:33:00 - [8] I love when people act like $15/mo or less is grounds to cover the salary of their very own IT specialist 24/7.
Zeba Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Forluhn I'm sick and tired of reading thread after thread about how CCP is a terrible company... You must be new to internets gaming forums. Even if Eve was 99% bug and lag free with near perfect balance the GD would still be filled with that 1% of flamers who don't really care about the issues but rather only want to use them as an excuse to be a leet forum warrior. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Cottage Pie Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Forluhn I'm sick and tired of reading thread after thread about how CCP is a terrible company... You must be new to internets gaming forums. Even if Eve was 99% bug and lag free with near perfect balance the GD would still be filled with that 1% of flamers who don't really care about the issues but rather only want to use them as an excuse to be a leet forum warrior. but it's not 99% bug and lag free by miles so what exactly is your point, oh you don't have one.
Zeba Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Cottage Pie but it's not 99% bug and lag free by miles so what exactly is your point, oh you don't have one. See? They prove my point for me. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Dramund Atonement Arms	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Zeba See? They prove my point for me. I will second this.
Sir Dragon Einherjar Yggdrasils	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:49:00 - [13] Edited by: Sir Dragon on 16/03/2008 19:56:26 Edited by: Sir Dragon on 16/03/2008 19:50:54 Hey, if I would hire 500 people to work freely at bombarding eve with negative storys (and anything related)? There would have to be an profit in it for me, Since i wouldn¦t burn away x ammount of cash just for kicks, by hiering 500 people to do that sortof stuff. This just reeks of marketing tactics or stock effecting bull, since we all know, but don¦t want to know at the same time, that we believe the bull sh*, we are exposed to. Also, eve is sky rocketing in popularity, perhapps some corporate giants are issing their * infested aes. Peace
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:50:00 - [14] LMAO! Point: Zeba. Round two: FIGHT! ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Vagablonde Ouruboros Trading	Posted - 2008.03.16 20:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Cottage Pie but it's not 99% bug and lag free by miles so what exactly is your point, oh you don't have one. See? They prove my point for me. I think they (my lovely alt) were pointing out that you were using a totally hypothetical situation (eve being bug free) to base a point on, which is just plain bad reasoning and proves nothing. ________________ the way back home is always long, but if you're close to me i'm holding on.
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.03.16 20:04:00 - [16] FREE Node crashes every day.. ccp is so nice arent they having the highest amount of players on 1 server says nothingh if they lagg to death sofar ccp has failed to improve there servers, nodecrashes hapen more and more often with even smal engagement /me hoping ccp finally gets into the need for speed thingh and actualy improve the server or i geus i can better go play a game with smaller amount of people on 1 server but almost nolagg . "MY COMMENTS IN NO WAY REFLECT MY CORP OR ALLIANCE"
Zeba Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.16 20:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Vagablonde Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Cottage Pie but it's not 99% bug and lag free by miles so what exactly is your point, oh you don't have one. See? They prove my point for me. I think they (my lovely alt) were pointing out that you were using a totally hypothetical situation (eve being bug free) to base a point on, which is just plain bad reasoning and proves nothing. No. I was simply stating that ,read closely here as its in the original post, even if Eve were 99% bug free it would make no diffrerence to the amount of negative posts that were created. As far as the CCP sucks statements in this thread and others those are aimed at the rough first few days of the patch day blues. We always get them and the forums always blow up with thread after thread of flames. Then about a week after the main patch we get some hotfixes and poof the majority of flame threads dissapear with only the normal mainstays keeping thier top spot on the GD. This is the time of the troll. He has lots of legit problems that he can feed upon to satisfy his need to bash and smash. He knows that the problems will get sorted in time but can't resist the temptation to rabble rabble rabble. So the op's wish to see a GD free of CCP bashing will never come to be as its against the nature of a gaming forum. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Sal Alo Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.17 01:15:00 - [18] Originally by: OzakiFragments 1. EVE is pretty damn complex, but I'm not sure about the most complex out of every MMO. Plus EVE is different than any other MMO, you can't really compare complexity there.. 2. WOW holds the most subscribers to date. Who cares if you can hold 40k on one server, they got over 10millions on thousands. There are countless other games that have more subscribers and online players than what EVE has. Sure its a cookie cutter MMO, but still more people play it = more money, and in terms of a company thats all that matters to them. 3. Maplestory, expansions are free. L2, expansions are free. There are so many games that offer free expansions. I could keep going. 4. Many games can be downloaded for free. 5. If they didn't try to push the envelope everytime they wouldnt exist anymore considering people would just leave and play other games. It's true CCP doesnt have the same amount of employees as Blizzard, which is the problem; because recently, they seem pretty short staffed. Fixed and /agree ___________________________________ ISK SELLERS: PROBLEM SOLVED, CCP +1
Hippy Dave University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.17 01:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Cottage Pie but it's not 99% bug and lag free by miles so what exactly is your point, oh you don't have one. See? They prove my point for me. lol.... signed
Cottage Pie Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.17 02:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Vagablonde Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Cottage Pie but it's not 99% bug and lag free by miles so what exactly is your point, oh you don't have one. See? They prove my point for me. I think they (my lovely alt) were pointing out that you were using a totally hypothetical situation (eve being bug free) to base a point on, which is just plain bad reasoning and proves nothing. No. I was simply stating that ,read closely here as its in the original post, even if Eve were 99% bug free it would make no diffrerence to the amount of negative posts that were created. As far as the CCP sucks statements in this thread and others those are aimed at the rough first few days of the patch day blues. We always get them and the forums always blow up with thread after thread of flames. Then about a week after the main patch we get some hotfixes and poof the majority of flame threads dissapear with only the normal mainstays keeping thier top spot on the GD. This is the time of the troll. He has lots of legit problems that he can feed upon to satisfy his need to bash and smash. He knows that the problems will get sorted in time but can't resist the temptation to rabble rabble rabble. So the op's wish to see a GD free of CCP bashing will never come to be as its against the nature of a gaming forum. again you are wrong, the problem of lag is getting worse of late, much of eve's gameplay has become utterly defined/destroyed by it - how long has this need for speed been going on? it's done nothing of any consequence, you can't honestly say it has. The cold hard fact is the problems are not getting sorted in time. Eve needs a new game experience that simply strips it of everything that does not add to the FUN and the ENJOYMENT people get from it. wham gg learning skills everybody gets +10, wham gg named modules (and an overhaul to ship fitting to boot), only t1 and t2 (keep faction etc)and a gigantic boost to player industry because everything will come from players, everyting, wham gg cosmos hardly anyone uses the crap hyper-expensive modules anyway. get the point? simplifyx3. oh and get rid of all the smuggler stargates, and make multi alliance warfare impossibly difficult to manage on a battlefield.
Zeba Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.17 04:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Cottage Pie a nearly complete collection of the same whines that have been consistantly shot down by both the playerbase and devs over the last year You should be starting threads not replying to them tbh. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Elizabeth Prower State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.17 04:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Forluhn I'm sick and tired of reading thread after thread about how CCP is a terrible company... Lets put things into perspective here. #1 This is the MOST complex MMO out to date. #2 This game holds the record for most players on one MMO server at a time. #3 Expansions are FREE... FREE... #4 The game itself can be downloaded for FREE. #5 They are always developing new content to help the game push the envelope. I could go on all day... Now having said these 5 things lets remember how small a company CCP actually is. Take the number of employes of CCP and compare it to say Blizzard... enough said. Jesus christ, is this a CCP employee who is using his normal player account? The game holds the record for most people on one server isn't an accomplishment. Big deal, it means nothing when the servers are as unstable as they are. World of Warcrafts player population still out numbers Eve by as much 1 million players online at one time. The free expansions are nice, i'll give it that, but its not like they are adding that much content to the game. No where near on the same level that games like Everquest got with its expansion packs. World of Warcraft gets a lot of free content too. They just recently got a new 10 man raid instance, and are getting a new 25 man and 5 man instance to play with. Along with dozens of new items. All MMORPGs do this. The only thing you have on Eve is that it is the most complex mmorpg, but so what?
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.17 05:21:00 - [23] Well it depends on how you look at it. If we think of it as "CCP has an awesome concept, I believe in this vision and support them in trying to make it a reality" then yeah CCP is an excellent company. If we think of CCP and Eve as purely a SERVICE or UTILITY, then CCP fails big time. Alot of what is hyped up simply isn't there such as large scale fleet battles, and what does exist is bugged, almost every portion of the game right now is bugged. I can't think of 1 area of the game right now that is polished and running smoothly, not the PvP not the PvE not the market, not even simply travelling through space, the F10 map is often bugged, jumping sometimes gets you stuck, heck even skill box is often bugged. In short Eve is bugridden, nothing works %100, and getting into any kind of conflict is like playing Russian roulette. Will I load the grid? Will the node crash? Will my module turn on? Will I log back in to a wreck? That's not a service sir, that's called being a Beta tester. Fine, CCP is a small company, they've promised the world and can't deliver. If I thought of myself as a "customer" I would have left LOOOOONG ago. If Blizzard or some other large company took over Eve, and kept the concept the same while throwing in the technical expertise to actually get it done, I'd be friggin thrilled. So far CCP has been big on concept, but unable to implement their vision, as a result Eve is a buggy soggy laggy mess.
Sosus Red Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.17 06:24:00 - [24] I've been hearing about Lag since 2003...come on, can you come up with something more original? The BOB(heart) CCP thing bothers me more that some intermittent lag. CCP is a great company. I was a guest of ccp, they paid for my trip to iceland, AIR&Hotel. Met all the employees at the fan fest, shook the CEO's hand. Paried with the CCP people, man does ccp really know how to party. They are a great bunch of people... We are lucky to have CCP, a responsive company. Yes, they respond to the player base, many times. I played SWG, SOE didnt givev a crap about its players. We are lucky to have eve.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.18 10:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Sosus Red they paid for my trip to iceland, AIR&Hotel. Originally by: Sosus Red We are lucky to have CCP Say no more --
Sosus Red Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.18 10:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Originally by: Sosus Red they paid for my trip to iceland, AIR&Hotel. Originally by: Sosus Red We are lucky to have CCP Say no more and what? I won a contest.
Malar HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2008.03.18 10:59:00 - [27] Edited by: Malar on 18/03/2008 11:05:28 Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Originally by: Forluhn #4 The game itself can be downloaded for FREE. #5 They are always developing new content to help the game push the envelope. I could go on all day... Now having said these 5 things lets remember how small a company CCP actually is. Take the number of employes of CCP and compare it to say Blizzard... enough said. omfg please. I don't want to flame or get into any dicsussion now about Eve or CCP but please at least make a somewhat solid argument. Somewhere on the internet I can download a client that lets me access some online database with very priviledged information for upwards of $1000/month. Now tell me: Do I get the service for free? Being able to download the game for free is such a moot point. As if staring at a login screen all day does any good to anyone. Aside all discussions about good or bad, Eve costs money to "use". I see it every month on my credit card bill. It costs a monthly fee. Which you may apply to #3 also. Which is very much redundant with #5. Sorry, those moot arguments you made simply sound incredibly fanboyish just because they're so incredibly wrong. Actually, what you call fanboyish, i call annoyed. You know how frustrating it is to see people whining about changes that affect them negatively in endless threads? They all say that they have been screwed over in an unjust way. They all say that they know how the game SHOULD work. They all say that CCP are morons for not following the OBVIOUSLY right path. I just say: its CCP's game. You either take it, or leave it, but you surely will not change it. Not with your whining. There are ways to affect the development of the game, there is a place to make suggestions, but people just tend to believe, that if they whine loud enough, their 'wish' will go through sooner / with a higher chance. To clarify: the money you pay CCP, you pay it to USE the system they made. You never bought CCP, or any rights to tell them what to do. You only bought the rights to play their game. That and nothing more. So if you feel like pulling out the 'but i do pay your bills' ever again, think about how small and meaningless you really are compared to the 100s of thousands of people who also pay for the game and might not necessarily agree with what you say about CCP. OFC im just a fanboi, you might think that i'm the exception, not the rule. Then again, let me ask you this: what makes you think, that more people share your opinion, than mine? --------------------------------------------- Comments in this post are mine and mine only
jita pc232323 State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.18 11:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Forluhn #2 This game holds the record for most players on one MMO server at a time. Thats because other MMOs were designed around the abilities and limitations of their infrastructure. Huge fleet combat wasn't possible when EVE had 10K players online. So tbh its a mystery what hardware/software development CCP is waiting for to save them with 40K players online. The game needs fundamental changes to its most basic mechanics e.g. sharding, duel system, limiting the numbers involved in combat to match server performance etc.
Bohoba dragons nest imPure.	Posted - 2008.03.18 11:33:00 - [29] Edited by: Bohoba on 18/03/2008 11:34:27 we pay ccp 15 a month to be ginnipigs, beta testers, and bug hunters don't like it don't pay Nuff said now move along lol Oh and sometimes we get to play a pretty cool game :) Windows VistaÖ Ultimate x64-based PC Gigabyte X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 Memory 4,093.69 MB 2X Crossfire ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB
Gone'Postal Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.03.18 11:33:00 - [30] Originally by: Forluhn #1 This is the MOST complex MMO out to date. #2 This game holds the record for most players on one MMO server at a time. #3 Expansions are FREE... FREE... #4 The game itself can be downloaded for FREE. #5 They are always developing new content to help the game push the envelope. #1 So? Humans strive to make more and more complex things, take a look at the history of anything IT wise, as it grows, it grows in complexity as well. #2 And thats something to be happy about, it's a nice feather in CCP's cap.. Now if all of the people could play the game as well.. that would be a dream #3 So is open source software? So are other MMO's.. #4 Most things on the internet can be downloaded for free, either within the Law, or around it. #5 Erm.. They have to, as a company CCP have to always give more to get more. standard companys have to as well.... You don't see online stores still trying to sell 386's to do ? All your points are mute tbh.. Eve is sold as massive space fleet fighting spaceships... but as soon as you try to fleet fight you get lagged to hell and back.. so excuse me but thats rather a massive fail in there PR debt or they have there head up there own rear thinking there doing a good job, there not. Remove BM's = les lag = lies Need for speed = less lag = lies lies to me = less respect, and CCP get none from me, maybe if they backed up with they say with results. I'm glad CCP have made this game, i really am, and i'll carry on saying how good it is to others, but posts like this that put CCP in the lights of the gods make me laugh and see truely how blinded people are. V8I

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