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SiJira Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:16:00 - [1] removed the security hits for everything in low security a really low security hit is left for podding changed sentries to do more damage at gates leading to higher security systems docking delay is over 5 seconds for small ships and scales to an additional 10 seconds per ship class in which time all your target locks are broken Trashed sig, Shark was here
Ikasu Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:19:00 - [2] Originally by: SiJira removed the security hits for everything in low security a really low security hit is left for podding changed sentries to do more damage at gates leading to higher security systems docking delay is over 5 seconds for small ships and scales to an additional 10 seconds per ship class in which time all your target locks are broken No, keep security hits for Low Sec, it's really the only punishment a lot of pirates get. No, lower security hits on podding will, guess what? Encourage podding. Podding is fine as it is. Actually, not too bad an idea. If it's only at the gates leading to high security it does make since, but it does also decrease the risk of flying that first jump into low sec. This can be either good or bad. Okay --------------------------------------------------
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:21:00 - [3] Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2
Ikasu Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:23:00 - [4] Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? This is possibly the most beautiful thing i've seen on these threads ever. If your words were a woman, well, you get the picture. Giggity. --------------------------------------------------
Shanur Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:25:00 - [5] - Last time i suggested making low sec 0.0 without bubbles i was crucified, but go ahead...... - If blowing ships up is without consequence, the incentive not to pod should be bigger, so increase the security hit for podding. - Could work, but my reasoning to eliminate the sec hit for attacking was that it would make the turrets the least of a pirate's worries, as this would make it easier for anti piracy operations to commence=the pirates get their pew pew and the anti pirates would do something about the overabundance of target starved pirates making low sec a bit more viable. - Not sure what you are trying to achieve there, but with the recent changes to undocking i would advise against trying to add anything that would further lower the security of running to a station for safety.
Nova Fox The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:25:00 - [6] I suggested citizenship, a half hashed concord called the navy that is slow to respond but still shoot you dead, and empire hits instead of sec hits for low sec but nobody listened. meh oh well. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Ulcha Ghanis Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:26:00 - [7] Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? this makes sense, i'd think its 'right' for someone with +ive sec to attack someone with -ive sec.. and on the flipside someone with -ve sec should be rightly punished for attacking a +ive sec (law abiding) person
Alex Raptos The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:26:00 - [8] Edited by: Alex Raptos on 18/03/2008 16:26:22 Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? Tarminic, if that was an attempt to come up with a stupid idea, you failed, cause its the best i've seen in possibly any of these threads.
SiJira Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? this would just add tedious ratting for every pirate that doesnt care about having the lowest security and ikasu for those who dont live in 0.0 - which is a lot of people in eve - the security hits keep people from actively living in low sec having to have an alt for all you purposes as the solution is only another problem for these types of people which are definitely not the minority most people will never go to lowsec but these changes will bring more pvp from those who would like to do it at least once a week but still want to visit their friends in 1.0 systems the alternative is to buff 0.0 Trashed sig, Shark was here
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? /signed Would make antipirate a little more viable as a career choice. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Ikasu Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:30:00 - [11] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? this would just add tedious ratting for every pirate that doesnt care about having the lowest security and ikasu for those who dont live in 0.0 - which is a lot of people in eve - the security hits keep people from actively living in low sec having to have an alt for all you purposes as the solution is only another problem for these types of people which are definitely not the minority most people will never go to lowsec but these changes will bring more pvp from those who would like to do it at least once a week but still want to visit their friends in 1.0 systems the alternative is to buff 0.0 I live in high sec and low sec space myself, but If anything I think sec hits need to be harder. Eve is a world where a pirate can go on a killing spree and grind his sec back up without too much difficulty, removing low sec security hits would make far more +5.0 pirates, and that is the LAST thing we need. Decreasing sec hits for podding is bad too, if anything you need to increase them as another poster said. I like the gate guns idea though. --------------------------------------------------
Vixisti Hammer 0f Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:34:00 - [12] Earlier I posted something similar, but hopefully a little better thought out in this thread - low sec thread
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.18 16:38:00 - [13] Edited by: Tarminic on 18/03/2008 16:38:01 Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Tarminic this would just add tedious ratting for every pirate that doesnt care about having the lowest security I'm not so sure - currently pirates put up with the security hit, they would have no incentive to change that except purely to maintain the inconvenience anti-pirate currently suffer. What would change is that anti-pirate who routinely engage them would be able to more easily maintain a positive security status, which means they're able to spend more time in low-sec instead of ratting in 0.0 or running missions to improve their sec status. ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2
Alex Raptos The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.03.18 17:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Tarminic Edited by: Tarminic on 18/03/2008 16:38:01 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Sijira this would just add tedious ratting for every pirate that doesnt care about having the lowest security I'm not so sure - currently pirates put up with the security hit, they would have no incentive to change that except purely to maintain the inconvenience anti-pirate currently suffer. What would change is that anti-pirate who routinely engage them would be able to more easily maintain a positive security status, which means they're able to spend more time in low-sec instead of ratting in 0.0 or running missions to improve their sec status. Tarm, you kinda quoted that a bit wrong, let me fix that.,,,
Gimpb Sturmgrenadier Inc Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.03.18 17:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Ikasu Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? This is possibly the most beautiful thing i've seen on these threads ever. If your words were a woman, well, you get the picture. Giggity. ... would probably need to keep the hit for wacking anyone who's positive or "pirates" would all have 7 sec ratings.
Whip Slagcheek Vajayjay	Posted - 2008.03.18 17:47:00 - [16] Security hits aren't the problem with low sec. It's the lack of any real reward to draw players there. The plexes are gone. The mining isn't that much better than hi sec. The rats are pitiful and you'd get more bounties from missions in hi sec. The people that want to go to low sec to shoot stuff are already there sec status be damned. It's everyone else we want to come to low sec and for that you need to make low sec profitable.
Ikasu Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.18 17:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Whip Slagcheek The plexes are gone. This is what happened to Lowsec, btw --------------------------------------------------
Kahega Amielden Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.03.18 18:08:00 - [18] Quote: Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? Great. So now pirates simply grind up their sec status and blow away people without repercussion? I agree with making lowsec more profitable.
Exlegion	Posted - 2008.03.18 18:38:00 - [19] Why not just be able to shoot anything with negative status in low sec without repercussions (positive or negative) to the shooter? It'd be like 0.0, except it only applies when shooting negatives. This would definitely give a needed boost to anti-pirates. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Tarminic	Posted - 2008.03.18 18:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Ikasu Originally by: Whip Slagcheek The plexes are gone. This is what happened to Lowsec, btw They're still there, you just have to find them via exploration now. ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.18 18:59:00 - [21] put free isk at warp to points in system, watch people duke it out for handouts...
Kahega Amielden Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.03.18 19:02:00 - [22] Quote: Why not just be able to shoot anything with negative status in low sec without repercussions (positive or negative) to the shooter? It'd be like 0.0, except it only applies when shooting negatives. This would definitely give a needed boost to anti-pirates. ' This.
space bear TRantor Corp. House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.03.18 19:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? Great. So now pirates simply grind up their sec status and blow away people without repercussion? I agree with making lowsec more profitable. It can be improved : 1. if you blow someone with positive sec status, you take sec status hit, whatever your security status is. 2. if you blow someone with negative sec status, you take sec status hit only if your own sec status is lower than his. And as already said, the problem with low sec (if ever) is not the reward, the problem of low sec is it's unplayable to everyone but pewpew-ers. Thus, no missionners, no miners, no merchants here... Even more if they re soloers (the main part of the hi-sec population)... And when you have the logistic, you prefer go to null sec : at least no sec status hit when you Preventively try to protect yourself.
Miki Fin Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2008.03.18 20:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? This
Imperator Jora'h Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.18 20:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Miki Fin Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? This Sounds good at first glance till you realize that pirates would grind up to a +10 sec status (or 7 or 8 so higher than most) and then have a field day. Some wouldn't but many, many would. Enough to bork the whole thing. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
SiJira Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:21:00 - [26] i approve of the replies to this thread Trashed sig, Shark was here
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:27:00 - [27] Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? Because pirates will grind 10.0 sec status and then be free to attack nearly anyone willy nilly. But the majority of people will be unable to attack them End result: Same as it was before the change except the pirates can fly farther into empire.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 17:00:00 - [28] Just commenting on the title, nothing should appeal to everyone. Cept maybe oxygen or something like that
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.23 17:08:00 - [29] Make it so that outlaws can access 0.4 but get killed should they actually misbehave there and you have a place for trade to occur without the need for alts... a sort of grey-zone. That way those who want to be pirates can do so without worrying about their sec status too much. This was already suggested somewhere by someone else, but until this issue is looked at then sec status is going to remain problematic since most pirates need to keep their security status high.
Lori Carlyle Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.03.23 17:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? Perfect.. Pure, easy, simple perfection. ---- CCP Please answer the following Questions.
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.03.23 17:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Tarminic Why not change the mechanics so that you only take a security status hit for attacking someone with a higher security status than yourself? Because pirates will grind 10.0 sec status and then be free to attack nearly anyone willy nilly. But the majority of people will be unable to attack them End result: Same as it was before the change except the pirates can fly farther into empire. Would they really be pirates if they did that? It doesn't bother most pirates to have negative security status...for them its a badge. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.23 17:43:00 - [32] It could work if the rule applied only to those with negative sec status. It would be a start at least. Having it apply to all sec status levels would be just plain dumb.
Faizaniel 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.03.23 20:37:00 - [33] Edited by: Faizaniel on 23/03/2008 20:41:51 Edited by: Faizaniel on 23/03/2008 20:41:14 Edited by: Faizaniel on 23/03/2008 20:40:46 If they want to go to low-sec and shoot stuff, so be it, let them come. It would take a perfect design team to create incentives for low-sec play without forcing players through low-sec and eliminating the choice of playing in empire (0.6+) space; if done correctly, it would be awesome, but doing it correctly is very hard, and the ramifications of doing it incorrectly are not worth meddling with. Pirates have had enough love in general, but why entice players to trudge through low-sec/0.0 to give the pirates more targets and the industrialists more demand? As it is, going out of empire space is a matter of free will for most of us; making it necessary in order to be a successful EVE player is overkill. ------------------------- Moving on, why not extend the security status idea to entire corporations? Based on the actions of each member, the corp could be given a security status of its own, which would then place it at certain standing levels with higher- or lower-SS corps. For example, a corp with a SS of 6.0 comes across a pirate corp with a SS of -8.0; standings would automatically be set to -14, defaulting to -10 for game purposes. This would mark all low-SS pirates ahead of time. There could also be a wardec cost discount or something to reward the high-SS corps for actively fighting pirates. ----------------------------------------------------- With the guidance of our Lord and our Emperor, I shall crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentations of their women.
Spacy Tracy Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.03.23 20:51:00 - [34] Edited by: Spacy Tracy on 23/03/2008 20:56:24 One thing everyone always seems to forget when talking about "bringing people to lowsec". PvE setup ships are completely incapable of fighting off almost any PvP fit ship. Thisis the fundamental problem. The reason you won't get people flocking to lowsec no matter how "profitable" you make it is that they cannot fight back against you, ever. It's that simple. Any competent pirate is going to be able to easily smear a ship properly setup for the difficult PvE content in low-sec. "Carebears" realize this. Who wants to deal with essential insta-death as soon as someone takes the time to probe them out? PvPers would like to think of carebears as mindless cattle or something. But they're not dumb. They're maximizers. They maximize their return based on time invested in the game. The downside in low-sec is basically unbounded because the chances of winning any sort of chance encounter is laughably small. Hell, I've spent 80% of my life in 0.0, but that's only because everything is in nicely protected alliance space. The risk-reward equation there is awesome (if you're not a *****, you can pretty much go months without dying). You'd have to make the rewards in low-sec be absurdly good to attract someone like me (who is not* risk averse). Like, way better than 0.0. A billion a week, after losses might do it. I can do roughly half that on a good busy week in 0.0. But, this isn't going to happen. So, they'll stay in high-sec. Simple.
Pink Lemonade Genji Jump Clones and Research Group	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Ikasu No, keep security hits for Low Sec, it's really the only punishment a lot of pirates get. Why should players be punished for pvping in pvp-designated areas?

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