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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.03.20 08:27:00 -
[31]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 20/03/2008 08:42:08
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 20/03/2008 08:38:42
 Originally by: Akita T
I mean, seriously, other than "economic e-p33n" factor, what GOOD would a PUBLIC NPC-LIKE STATION (but privately-owned) do for you ?
Out there in 0.0, it makes sense, it's needed as a base of operations where no other bases are available.
But in highsec, where stations are pretty much everywhere ?
It's an ISK sink, a totally voluntary one, and it doesn't "break" anything.
In my proposed version, anyway.
What are the chances of finding bottleneck high sec systems that provide quick access to (low sec and then) null sec for a large area and have no npc station? And to have decent amount of trafic as well.
I'd start looking around Providence.
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Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.20 09:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Akita T
The simplest way would be to SIMPLY ALLOW building highsec (but not lowsec) outposts with the following caveats:
* no sov level required, but based on standings (like high-sec POSes)
* a HUGE initial requirement of "charters" (say, 10 mil charters or so) to bring it up, but zero operating costs
* can build ALL regular outpost upgrades (as if you have sov4), again, with the huge charter demand here too
* can be built at any "free" planet of moon (no "only one per system" restrictions like 0.0 outposts)
* no docking fees possible, and no docking restrictions (anybody can dock at any time, free of charge)
* everybody can use all the facilities of the outpost regardless of standings
* 10%-50% of all market/repair/lab/manufacture fees would go to "the host empire"
I see no problem in allowing this.
It's basically just another NPC station, but player-administrated.
And with a percentage of all fees going to the "empire" (ISK sink), it's not even "free service" for the owner... unless he sets really low prices, and in that case, somebody else would surely snatch the place in the queue from under its nose soon.
That charters idea is pretty good in fact however I'm not too sure standings requiment would work. Unlike POS'es (where u need to keep the alt corp) it is possible to trade outposts. It should also not be maintenance free. If POS can't run without maintenance then you can be pretty sure that neither can Outposts. Easiest 'maintenance' mechaniks I can see would need to require some reasonable amount of charters per hour to keep your outpost. If you fail to pay them you get warning and your local empire will start disabling your station services one by one. When you are out of services your local empire will conficate it (it goes into possession of NPC corp created for that purpose) and there is say 1 month long automatic auction generated with some reasonably high starting bid and reserve. If reserve is not met then the outpost stays in the hands of that NPC corp and new auction is generated next month. Reserve should be pretty considerable, say at least 75 % of build cost of that particualr outpost configuration.
Hi sec is not exactly pvp free. Bulk of pvp happening in hi sec is however economic pvp not the regular pewpew. Thus it should be possible to take over outposts with economic pvp and if one is willing to put effort into it. Say ... contest the ownership of outpost with local empire by giving them those same charters in great quantities, current owner would get notified about contestion attempt and then has option to counter it with expenditure of charters of his own. Thus the one with deeper wallet shall win. Ofc defender should have advantage (as he has already went thru a lot of effort to either erect it or take it over from someone else), even quite serious advantage, not just so that some random git comes along and offers 10 more charters per hour than you.
When takeover happens those taking it over should pay some base value of installed hardware (say 80% of build cost of the outpost) that would be transferred to current owner as 'compensation'. Takeover should consist 2 main parts. Initial cost (big pile of charters + isk compensation) and 'rent offer' part (ie you offer more charters per hour than current holder does then empire would perhaps like you hold the outpost not the current owner).
Whatever way it would be done it should not be totally safe as there needs to be possibility to take over and player owned structure. However as empire (at least hi sec) space is supposed to be civilized with all those laws and stuff in my opinion takeover should not be 'pewpew' style in hi sec, but more in the imaginary form of opposing alliance lawyer stepping into your office with local authorities and informing you that you are no longer in possesion of your installation according to local laws.
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Wieting Foyu
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.20 09:32:00 -
[33]
I love this idea.. It would make traders basically have their own "little" shop to play with. And just because it is in high sec doesn't mean its invulnerable.. Any wardecing corp can take it on without the law stepping in.
Would add to the danger of market pvp.. You find a station with good rates.. start setting up your hangar and selling out of it. and BAMM it gets blown up in a war dec. you lost all your hangar and marketed items. And while under siege you run the risk of getting hit in the cross fire.
I personally can't wait to own one.. And it won't be in Jita trust me on that.
Wieting Foyu
Foyu Investments
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Alak D'bor
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.20 09:38:00 -
[34]
Pay to install missing services in stations. "This cloning service brought to you by Joe Carebear", and he gets to manage the his cut of the service sold.
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Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.20 11:45:00 -
[35]
On related note perhaps it would make sense to add hi sec station/outpost construction licences as high(er) end rewards for factional warfare. There might be several different kinds of those, ie construction licence for 'up to sec 0.4 space in system without stations' or 'up to sec 0.6 with max 3 stations already present'.
If those licences would be tradeable I imagine they might net pretty awesome penny on open market as long as they are sufficently hard to get. Failing that sufficent pile of starbase charters is ok also. For example ballpark figure of 10 mil charters posted by Akita would translate into 50 million LP. If charters way is used then both initial charter pile size and upkeep charter consumption shuld propably depend on system security status and already present station amount.
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Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.20 12:29:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Wadaya on 20/03/2008 12:29:33
There are many systems with no stations in High Sec where a player owned station could be beneficial. I also recall a discussion a few months back where another idea about player owned stations would be to auction off the charter for the station every 3 months, so no one corp could have a monopoly, unless they were willing to be the top bidder. For all intents and purposes they could be losing money just to keep the station. This would be a great ISK sink in the game.
Wad
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Hexxx
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.20 13:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Wadaya
Edited by: Wadaya on 20/03/2008 12:42:19
Edited by: Wadaya on 20/03/2008 12:41:41
Edited by: Wadaya on 20/03/2008 12:29:33
There are many systems with no stations in High Sec where a player owned station could be beneficial. I also recall a discussion a few months back where another idea about player owned stations would be to auction off the charter for the station every 3 months, so no one corp could have a monopoly, unless they were willing to be the top bidder. For all intents and purposes they could be losing money just to keep the station. This would be a great ISK sink in the game.
Wad
That's actually a REALLY good idea...
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Midas Man
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.03.20 14:24:00 -
[38]
<--- Dusts off his copy of Hardwar.
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Erfnam
Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.20 17:03:00 -
[39]
I asked a similar thing of CCP over a year ago and it was rejected. I basically wanted to build/pay for an NPC controlled manufacturing station with limited control over naming it. It would have been a pure isk sink that would have been an awesome goal for my corp.
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Return of the Erf
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Daeva Vios
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Posted - 2008.03.21 12:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Midas Man
<--- Dusts off his copy of Hardwar.
Damn.
Now I know where my whole day is going to go when I get off work.
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.03.21 12:38:00 -
[41]
It would be very interesting to open a brand new high-sec region with no stations at all, let players build stations, and watch how society develops in that region.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:07:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 21/03/2008 16:07:26
Originally by: Block Ukx
It would be very interesting to open a brand new high-sec region with no stations at all, let players build stations, and watch how society develops in that region.
Well, there is the Jovians. Maybe they'll give up on being isolationist and open things up.
/me eyes his 3.4 standing with the Joves.
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Durente Galaica
Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Imperius Blackheart
Essentially you want a Empire outpost because it would represent zero risk, but this is eve NOTHING can have zero risk.
I think our friend Imperius brings up an important point representing how our fellow players outside of MD forum would feel about this topic. If we were to ever garner support for the construction of high-sec outposts we'd have to fight this myth with facts.
Assumptions:
- High-Sec Outpost Base Cost = 250,000,000,000
- Outposts can only be built (not bought from npcs)
- 50xLab Running Full Time (each lab earns 8000 isk an hour)
- 50xFactory Running Full Time (each factory earns 8000 isk an hour)
- 1,000,000,000,000ISK annual trade at station which station owner earns an impressive 5%
These assumptions yield a minimum of 4-year pay back structure. (1)
That in itself is quite an investment. Imagine needing to pay for protection, starbase charters, higher station cost, or any of the other ideas that were lobbed in to make this idea "fair" and we quickly approach a situation where we're looking at payback time tables of 10-15 years.
Why did I choose 1 Trillion ISK as my target annual trade flow?
I think Imperius said it best:
Originally by: Imperius Blackheart
Do you really think there is a NEED for more outposts in Empire?
The pre-existing NPC structure offers a huge amount of competition in itself (Already well established, Mission Agents, ect). Add in the risk of another player plopping his outpost in the same system as yours, and I would estimate that 1 in 3 high sec player run stations would be in danger of failing (anything longer than 15-20year+ timetable to pay for itself)
Now I know I've made a lot of assumptions in this post, but I've tried to miss high. Please continue to discuss this topic from an economic standpoint. For example, if you think my annual trade flow number is too low, perhaps a certain number of starbase charters could offset the difference (ect).
(1) It is left as an exercise to the reader to verify these results for himself.
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Nummb
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.03.21 23:22:00 -
[44]
I think the number one requirement should be that the system does not already contain an NPC station. There are systems already in place that don't have stations, why not let the player base decide where the rest of empire will reside.
A couple of other idea's:
Allow the owner of the station to attract agents (Determined on sec status of system, what Empire Space etc...
Make it a multi-person/corp project: The owner can not belong to an NPC Corp, the majority owner can only control 51% of the outpost. The other 49% of the outpost must be available for bidding by outside corporations. This could work like this:
Owner controls:
- Docking Fees
- Reprocessing facility
- Medical facility
Minority owners control:
- Science and Manufacturing
- Repair facility
The minority stakes could be set-up on a 90 day rotation basis. The bidding would be done via an open contract system. Each bidder could see what the other bidders were bidding and it would take place over 5 days. Each separate facility would be its own contract bid, so there could potentially be multiple owners involved in running and maintaining the outpost.
The outpost has to make a decision on what type of goods and market it will cater towards. I.E., it could serve as a hub for raw materials encouraging people to buy and sell large quantities of minerals, moon products and T2 components. Or, it could focus on finished modules and ships.
 What I would really like is a black market built and available only at player owned outposts. The items that can be sold via the black market are faction and dead space modules and ships. Now you can buy a Caldari BCU or a Gist-B shield booster on the market instead of through contracts.
I have some other idea's, I will ponder over some stuff later.
Originally by: Ambrose Bierce
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum (I think that I think, therefore I think that I am.)
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Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.03.22 11:29:00 -
[45]
I think something like this:
Allow each corp to build 1 HQ. Basicly just an outpost in highsec. Allow some guns etc too for wardec.
Allow alliances to build 1 alliance HQ aswell.
Remove some NPC stations when these tend to grow in numbers. Specially those places where there is 5 of the same NPC stations in 1 system.
There is ofcourse alot of other things to do and set rules for aswell. It is just the overall idea.
The HQ could have some fuel/isk cost to be run aswell.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Kazzac Elentria
Sanctuary
Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.03.22 20:15:00 -
[46]
I think it would be a great idea and forced limitation to systems without existing stations. Any system with at least one station or more would be unable to have any PC stations built.
Cost should again as stated run into the trillions.
Fees for concord protection, and fees for space rental from the race that has sovereignty.
If fees for concord are not paid, the corporation (and alliance they are in) that owns the station are not subject to concord rules anymore. All pilots are fair game, all POS are fair game, and the station itself is fair game if enough of whoever attempts (no war dec needed)
If fees for race sovereignty are not paid, then the station is subject to increasing penalties up to repossession. Things like all station taxes go to catch you up, any ore refined by anyone in the alliance/corp that owns the station is subject to a 100% tax until fee is paid (this goes for all stations..essentially all pilots are tagged with a 100% tax for that race). Broker fees increase, etc...
All of that eventually leads to repossession of the station, which then is given a final 30 days. And then vanishes at DT. Base cost - existing fees and penalties are then turned back into the corporation coffers.
Definately needs to be an endgame for industrialists... as it stands there are likely trillions of ISK sitting out there in wallets doing absolutely nothing. |
Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.03.22 21:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nummb
What I would really like is a black market built and available only at player owned outposts. The items that can be sold via the black market are faction and dead space modules and ships. Now you can buy a Caldari BCU or a Gist-B shield booster on the market instead of through contracts.
That would be nice though I don't know that it would get used all that much and it would place more strain on the market database server and since that's the only part of EVE that doesn't get lagged to hell these days I would hate to see it get overloaded as well.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Haggis MacGyver
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:14:00 -
[48]
some good points being made here, it wouldn't be half as bad of they let you setup small manufacturering/research POS's in your home regions without too much hassle. As it stands, corps can;t do it due to the daft minimum standing rules.
if they want to ease the reliance and load on NPC stations, start making the hi-sec POS's a but simpler to run and setup, let's face it, nobody in their right mind is going to move this type of operation to low sec, as they need ready access for supplying building materials and collecting BPC's - too much risk being asked, compared to rewards.
Larger corps can cope no problem, but it's the other 50% of the player base that are playing semi-solo or in small corps, that do not have the members, time or manpower to run these large complex POS's. CCP need to cater for all, and not just large corps/alliances as they have been doing of late.
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TheVad
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:30:00 -
[49]
Edited by: TheVad on 25/03/2008 18:32:56
Edited by: TheVad on 25/03/2008 18:30:55
Why not make a deal with a large Alliance (like BoB, Goon etc), place an outpost in their space, use them as your protection and in return you provide them with all these goods and commodities(at a slight discount) first and if anything is left over it goes to market for full price?
This way you don't upset the lowsec/0.0 supporters and get what you want. The Ultimate Endgame for the market side would be to operate (outpost, etc) in 0.0 supplying a faction with needed goods in my opinion. Empire really was meant to be the initial growing up period for an eve player, then people should be encouraged to transition into low sec and finally into 0.0.
TheVad
"Not my way, or your way, but a better way" |
Durente Galaica
Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2008.03.26 03:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: TheVad
Empire really was meant to be the initial growing up period for an eve player, then people should be encouraged to transition into low sec and finally into 0.0.
*Takes a seat by the fire*
Once upon a time, all mining was done inside of the cargohold of one's own ship. Pilots flew to and from a station every time the cargohold became full. Then, one soul decided he had enough of mining so he jettisoned his ore into the depths of space. But something strange happened. His ore did not filter away, but persisted in a large "jet-can" right beside him.
Amazed with his new discovery this young gentleman told all of Eve this marvelous new discovery. Would you believe, at first, there was some thunderous outrage? After all it was not intended for him to do this. People should continue to mine in their own cargohold.
As time went on, more and more people found they preferred mining in the unintended state, than the traditional. It became so prevalent, that even the powers that be saw that this was good. Then, as an official mark of approval, the lords over all of Eve decided it would be a fun trick to convince Concord to legally bind that which was in a "jet-can" to that which created it. Thus anyone who took from a can which was not his would be criminally flagged toward the true owner.
Sometimes things which are intended are not always best. As it stands, 76% of pilots make their living in empire. I believe the empire should be allowed to grow along with Eve if that's what its inhabitants desire.
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TheVad
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.26 04:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Durente GalaicaSometimes things which are intended are not always best. As it stands, 76% of pilots make their living in empire. I believe the empire should be allowed to grow along with Eve if that's what its inhabitants desire.[/quote
Making mechanic changes around ôcanningö did not change the games vision and direction. Allowing outposts in High sect however will impact the vision severely. Removing or severely lessoning NPC protection of High space would impact the Vision severely.
CCP current vision is for the ultimate end game to be totally player run and determined. Thus any changes that go against this vision means they are changing that vision (which is a huge change). That is why all the end state stuff occurs in lower and zero sect space.
Historically in most games only about 25% of the population plays in the end game space (at any one point in time) due to player nutrition and availability of end game content.
There are things in zero space that don't exist elsewhere for a reason. They want to encourage people to move to lower sec levels. Putting outposts in high sect would counter this encouragement. So why stop at that? Why not ask them to make everything available in high sect space? Any changes like this would start to have a large effect on what the ôend gameö looks like.
Since you like stories, here is a real one that occurs all the time. There once was a kid who had life easy, he was dependant on his parents, and never wanted to leave his parents house. Then one day his parents did the right thing and forced him to grow up by kicking him out so he can experience the real world. He eventually became independent, and even perhaps learned how to become interdependent.
The moral of the story is that a person is most effective when they reach the state of interdependence.
TheVad
-Trust me, I got it covered. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.03.26 04:49:00 -
[52]
Quote:
I don't really see the benefit either, 0.0 is the new fronteer, there are plenty of alliances who want and need outposts but they are big investements,
Withholding alliance names, but I recently made an inquiry (research purposes) as to what requirements for membership into their alliance as a industrial entity. Resons for rejection were:
A. I needed XX members in my corp.
B. I "couldn't handle the monthly fees" solo which are in the "tens of billions" (even tho with a nullsec POS I could make 6-7 billion a month no worries, and I currently generate 2-3 billion a month solo)
I don't buy it. Nullsec alliances are *not* interested.
Improve Market Competition! |
TheVad
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.26 05:09:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote:
I don't really see the benefit either, 0.0 is the new fronteer, there are plenty of alliances who want and need outposts but they are big investements,
Withholding alliance names, but I recently made an inquiry (research purposes) as to what requirements for membership into their alliance as a industrial entity. Resons for rejection were:
A. I needed XX members in my corp.
B. I "couldn't handle the monthly fees" solo which are in the "tens of billions" (even tho with a nullsec POS I could make 6-7 billion a month no worries, and I currently generate 2-3 billion a month solo)
I don't buy it. Nullsec alliances are *not* interested.
Some alliances might be like that. Now the reality is either:
a) They donÆt need what you provide and are making excuses.
b) Perhaps both of you are not thinking out of the box on how you can make a win/win. If you gave them a discount on your product thatÆs similar to you paying a fee. There are probably 30 ways you could give them that "fee" to where in the end itÆs the same thing.
C Find partners and form a larger corp with multiple services. This would help with the monthly large fee because that is targeted at a larger corp. It will also help with the X members in the corp requirement.
In any case if they needed what you provided they would make a reasonable exception. I dont know your business and I dont know what the allainces you talked to need.
TheVad
-Trust me, I got it covered. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:04:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 26/03/2008 11:04:31
Bias being I'm very untrusting of alliances, and for good reason really.
I don't want to rehash why for the millionth time, cutting a long story short my first Alliance turned a blind eye when I needed them, the second one wouldn't accept that my combat main in nullsec wasn't good enough, even though I could do more with my indy main in hi-sec, and my third alliance, though the corporation was good, put out the "be here at this time and this place or we'll make your CEO's boot you" call.
To be frank, I'm sick of the "Oh, it's an alliance, you know that means teamwork" rubbish. Maybe I got the bad eggs, but from the alliances I've been in and the ones I've poked around and who've responded to inquiries I've planted around the place, all I've found is a bunch of people with *nothing* to offer looking for a free ride with a long list of demands and expectations. I'm tired of asking alliances "What can I offer you".
0.0 alliances *want* and *need* indy's? Well, what can *they* offer *me*? The crappy thing is that the Industrialist's endgame lies in 0.0 outposts, but what 0.0 alliances offer is tragically insufficient for me to want to pursue it.
Improve Market Competition! |
Anas Damona
Splintered Shards of Europe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 14:11:00 -
[55]
Nice post and some really good ideas! Here's my take...
CCP could pick one station for a trial. The NPC owners of that station decide for RP reasons (fedo outbreak perhaps?) to vacate the station and they put the management of the station up for auction. A limited number of shares are offered, possibly limited to one share per individual. The shareholders then get to vote once per month on certain aspects of station management (tax rates, standings etc) and they receive a monthly dividend based on station fees. Shares are not initially transferable, but after the trial period, if CCP decide the system is not working, then the NPC corp offer to buy back the shares for the average price at auction. If it goes well the idea can be taken up by other NPC corps in other systems, and the shares can be transferred, maybe no more frequently than once per month.
It's not your own station but you still get to enjoy running it.
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:58:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Anas Damona
Nice post and some really good ideas! Here's my take...
CCP could pick one station for a trial. The NPC owners of that station decide for RP reasons (fedo outbreak perhaps?) to vacate the station and they put the management of the station up for auction. A limited number of shares are offered, possibly limited to one share per individual.
Jita 4-4 perhaps? 
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Durente Galaica
Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:23:00 -
[57]
Originally by: TheVad
CCP current vision is for the ultimate end game to be totally player run and determined.
How can this vision ever be achieved by limiting it to null sec? Unfortuantlly, when this interpretation of CCP's vision is logically analized, it forms a contradition. What I would like to argue is another interpretation that says pilots should be able to run things anywhere. To clarify further, by this I mean if an NPC corp can do something, a player corp should also be able to as well.
Originally by: TheVad
There are things in zero space that don't exist elsewhere for a reason.
This is true. However, in the context of this debate, outposts already exist in empire (through NPC corporations).
Originally by: TheVad
Since you like stories, here is a real one that occurs all the time.
This is an interesting story... Allow me to elaborate on the implied analogies.
kid = pilot
parents house = empire space
kicking him out to experience the real word = ???
Perhaps you would fill in the blank with something along the lines of "going into null sec". However, I will stop before that because this is wrong for a few reasons. The first, is that you are trying to draw analagies between reality and Eve. The second is that you are telling people how they should spend their time in Eve. The third and most obvious is that someone being "interdependent" does not depend on whether or not they live with their parents.
I would prefer not to continue the discussion further on this third point, as I don't believe it has any true relevance to our topic and was origionally intended more as some sort of insult than a true claim.
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TheVad
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.26 19:59:00 -
[58]
Edited by: TheVad on 26/03/2008 20:03:39
Originally by: Durente Galaica
Originally by: TheVad
CCP current vision is for the ultimate end game to be totally player run and determined.
How can this vision ever be achieved by limiting it to null sec? Unfortuantlly, when this interpretation of CCP's vision is logically analized, it forms a contradition. What I would like to argue is another interpretation that says pilots should be able to run things anywhere. To clarify further, by this I mean if an NPC corp can do something, a player corp should also be able to as well.
Originally by: TheVad
There are things in zero space that don't exist elsewhere for a reason.
This is true. However, in the context of this debate, outposts already exist in empire (through NPC corporations).
Originally by: TheVad
Since you like stories, here is a real one that occurs all the time.
This is an interesting story... Allow me to elaborate on the implied analogies.
kid = pilot
parents house = empire space
kicking him out to experience the real word = ???
Perhaps you would fill in the blank with something along the lines of "going into null sec". However, I will stop before that because this is wrong for a few reasons. The first, is that you are trying to draw analagies between reality and Eve. The second is that you are telling people how they should spend their time in Eve. The third and most obvious is that someone being "interdependent" does not depend on whether or not they live with their parents.
I would prefer not to continue the discussion further on this third point, as I don't believe it has any true relevance to our topic and was origionally intended more as some sort of insult than a true claim.
The discussion really has run its course. Neither you nor I talking about this on these forums can really effect what CCP thinks. They are not in our sphere of influence. But for a brief amount of time it can be valuable to explore things. Hopefully both people get something out of it.
Secondly I will let CCP defend their vision as it is not my place too do so. I was just communicating what the Vision was from my knowledge.
Third, ôkicking him out to experience the real wordô means in CCP terms to live and thrive in the world where itÆs entirely player run.
Fourth, one can not be dependant and interdependent at the same time. Achieving a state of interdependence is a higher state. The parent thing was referring to at least living there rent free, maybe free meals, etc. .
There are several well respected and world renowned individuals that can back up these statements. Dr. Steven R Covey is one of them.
In an oldie but goodie, 7 habits of highly effective people, he clearly articulates these thoughts. I recommend that everyone should read this at least once. And yes these principles apply whether in a game, in school, in the work place, anywhere in your life.
Cheers!
TheVad
P.S> Hexxx, donÆt kill me for mentioning your favorite author.
-Trust me, I got it covered. |
Hexxx
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.26 23:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: TheVad
P.S> Hexxx, donÆt kill me for mentioning your favorite author.
I'd start running now if I were you. 
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.03.26 23:18:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 26/03/2008 23:19:44
Make it low-sec outposts which can be conquered
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