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Durente Galaica Fortunate Few	Posted - 2008.03.19 06:21:00 - [1] So you've got tens of billions lying around, you're net worth increases hundreds of millions every hour; I know what you want (because I want it too). An outpost! I want one so bad, and as soon as I would build one, IÆd lose it! It would be conquered. What if I worked a treaty to get an alliance to allow me to construct in their space? My outpost would be the last thing they bothered to defend. Inevitably it would be conquered. Lost, along with all those billions I poured into it. This is no secret, itÆs the same conclusion we all come to. It is what CCP wills. So I dream the next great dreamà a high sec outpost. A carebear dream I know. The laughing stock of Eve. To think I would put my name on such an idea. But is it really that wrong? ShouldnÆt a player be allowed to become more powerful than an NPC corporation? A lot of questions would need to be answered. What about all the players in 0.0 who work hard to build (and defend) their outposts? Would you be able to buy existing stations or only build new ones (in empty systems)? Could I buy Jita 4-4? How much would it cost? How much would you pony up to own one of these baddies which could never be lost? (only bought) -- think monopoly -- My estimate would be somewhere on the order of a quarter trillion. Almost a full order of magnitude higher than his little 0.0 brothers. Need an isk sink CCP? Let's hear some more ideas.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.19 07:07:00 - [2] For Jita 4-4 I dare say an auction could reach 1 trillion isk. Great isk sink but I really don't see it happening. Buy Jita 4-4, force your enemies to pay 20% tax fees or disallow them access completely. Random people flying around wouldn't know what stations charge what rates. Definetly an awesome isk sink but probably way too complex.
Mill1ken Ramvent Radiation Tactical	Posted - 2008.03.19 07:19:00 - [3] Station pose several differnt things. One they are a pain the well you get the point to manage. But in the case of Jita 4-4 you could set docking fees at what ever you wanted and anyone you didnt like you can basicaly disallow to dock. Not to mention you could set your own Tax rate for refined good ect, if you used a manfacture station charge for all slots. Stations can be a great thing to own or a total nightmare. My suggestions, Keep your isk there not worth it. Defending one can be a total pain, and the Poses them self can be a worse nightmare.
cosmoray School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.19 12:28:00 - [4] If I could get a station, I would set the refining/reprocessing plants at 4% tax. That would incentivise everyone to refine/reprocess at the station. Would make a killing on players without standings.
Brisco Smiley Peppermint Bay Trading Company	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:28:00 - [5] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Buy Jita 4-4, force your enemies to pay 20% tax fees or disallow them access completely. ^ There it is. Set the taxes and fees to zero for high-volume traders, haulers and manufacturers. Your choke-hold on the market would tighten. Make NPC rates off of everybody else and gouge the life out of a lucky few. If that ever happens, I had nothing to do with it.
Cogwheel Legio Eterna	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:34:00 - [6] Would Concord still be protecting the system? If so, there should be MASSIVE fees for their protection...
Rollerrat Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:51:00 - [7] Buying currently existing NPC stations, no. Dont think thats a good idea. Beeing able to set up a POS in high sec and buy Concord protection. Making a trading hub, sounds like a good idea. They shouldnt be invounerable though, with work anything should be killable.
Oberon Theros Star Ocean Trading inc.	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:56:00 - [8] I'd have to agree with a trillion dollars or more for Jita 4-4. 2% brokerage fees over an amount probably in the trillions per month is a crap load of money. Heck at 250 billion, you'd likely make a profit. add in docking fees, office rental fees, manufacturing fees, (future) ambulation fees and store rental fees. Perhaps hanger fees, etc etc. it'd have to be almost certinly more then a trillion.
Stellarr State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.19 16:44:00 - [9] Nice idea :) though it would likely have to be somewhat regulated (ie. no 20% tax lol) then again, if you were to set a 20% tax people would just go to another station in jita, so I guess even regulations may not be needed. And jita 4-4 would go for an insane amount of isk.
Shadarle LI0NS Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 16:55:00 - [10] No one said anything about buying npc stations. He said you could set up outposts in high sec. Are people that clueless about what outposts are?
Eefrit Eve Financial Services	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:18:00 - [11] I like the overall idea, but am not convinced of any of the smaller details that really decide what is and is not feasible. Actually I'm not sure whether it is the details or how much weed CCP have been smoking that week. /Eefrit
Eefrit Eve Financial Services	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:21:00 - [12] Edited by: Eefrit on 19/03/2008 17:22:40 Originally by: Shadarle Are people that clueless about what outposts are? Where I come from, thinly veiled insults at people having an honest discussion is a way that little people try make themselves seem big. Cue argumentum ad hominem /Eefrit
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Eefrit Edited by: Eefrit on 19/03/2008 17:22:40 Originally by: Shadarle Are people that clueless about what outposts are? Where I come from, thinly veiled insults at people having an honest discussion is a way that little people try make themselves seem big. Cue argumentum ad hominem /Eefrit Ooooo fight fight fight!! Hi-sec player-owned stations/outposts/whatever... GIEVVVVVVVVV!!!!!!
Hexxx Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:35:00 - [14] 1) Make the cost 5 to 10 trillion. 2) Heavy monthly fees, siezure by empires if payments can't be made. 3) Only allowed to build in systems with a low number of stations (less than 3...or even 2). The NPC Corps would HATE to compete with the pilots and the only thing that would work is anti-monopoly laws for an empire allow for construction...which means a very weak station presence resulting in getting a permit to build. However...if the systems are that "dead" than how profitable is it to build? Yes, I realize how much (and yet, how little) 5 trillion actually is, but these should be an isk-printing machine. We have enough of those already. A station should have a marginal return and a risk of siezure. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Cogwheel Legio Eterna	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Shadarle No one said anything about buying npc stations. Woot! My first chance to pwn Shadarle... Originally by: Durente Galaica Would you be able to buy existing stations or only build new ones (in empty systems)? Could I buy Jita 4-4?
Shadarle LI0NS Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Eefrit Edited by: Eefrit on 19/03/2008 17:22:40 Originally by: Shadarle Are people that clueless about what outposts are? Where I come from, thinly veiled insults at people having an honest discussion is a way that little people try make themselves seem big. Cue argumentum ad hominem /Eefrit Where I come from people don't hide crucial information from their investors. Especially when that hidden information causes many people to lose large sums of ISK because you were not forthcoming about the massive issues you were having. But hey, I am happy to be labeled a jerk. You may not be as happy with the way people label you with the way FIN is going.
Shadarle LI0NS Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 17:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Cogwheel Originally by: Shadarle No one said anything about buying npc stations. Woot! My first chance to pwn Shadarle... Originally by: Durente Galaica Would you be able to buy existing stations or only build new ones (in empty systems)? Could I buy Jita 4-4? Ah, so he did say it. My eyes are broken apparently. So indeed I was wrong. I'll rephrase. No one of any intelligence would think NPC stations would be able to be purchased. There
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.19 18:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Hexxx 1) Make the cost 5 to 10 trillion. 2) Heavy monthly fees, siezure by empires if payments can't be made. 3) Only allowed to build in systems with a low number of stations (less than 3...or even 2). The NPC Corps would HATE to compete with the pilots and the only thing that would work is anti-monopoly laws for an empire allow for construction...which means a very weak station presence resulting in getting a permit to build. However...if the systems are that "dead" than how profitable is it to build? Yes, I realize how much (and yet, how little) 5 trillion actually is, but these should be an isk-printing machine. We have enough of those already. A station should have a marginal return and a risk of siezure. If there are really heavy fees, there is no need for so high construction cost. IMO 10x price of regular outpost would be enough. Monthly fee should be the tool to stop station spam. As for ISK-printing, monthly fee can be set to reflect number of things (system sec, number of stations already in system, number of pilots docked, station revenue...) to reduce possible insane profits in some locations.
Ghreymar LaNayeur Pariah Corp	Posted - 2008.03.19 18:25:00 - [19] I had this idea for a pilotable version. Would be beneficial for alliances, but i conceived it more of as an asset for unbeleivably wealthy traders, who could jump one of these things out if the alliance turned on him, was getting attacked, or whatever. They would be soooooo broken if they could jump into highsec though, so who knows
Eefrit Eve Financial Services	Posted - 2008.03.19 19:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Eefrit Cue argumentum ad hominem Where I come from people don't hide crucial information from their investors. Especially when that hidden information causes many people to lose large sums of ISK because you were not forthcoming about the massive issues you were having. But hey, I am happy to be labeled a jerk. You may not be as happy with the way people label you with the way FIN is going. Right on cue!
Protheroe UMEC Aeon Group Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.19 19:37:00 - [21] Edited by: Protheroe on 19/03/2008 19:40:23 Enabling some degree of competition between station services might help to mitigate the effects of chokepoints such as Jita 4-4, and it would be great if that competition was player driven. Perhaps an intermediate step towards the construction of player owned high sec stations could be to allow players to purchase/lease real estate on existing NPC stations, such as office space, factories, laboratories etc. Leases and freeholds could then be traded between players, and the services rented out to others for a fee. It could be necessary to undertake regular maintenance and upkeep on these facilities (for example, with a steady supply of oxygen, robotics, electronics, janitors etc), as well as the ability to upgrade and customise services to allow for meaningful competition. This could be achieved by investing in better equipment requiring more expensive fuel to run, paying for higher quality types of maintenance, and tailoring the performance of facilities for a particular market; in stations close to current warzones it might be better to invest in high speed but high wastage factories to supply a demand for rapid production, centres for high end manufacturing may require slower but highly material efficient factories, and giant market hubs such as Jita may demand the best of all words, requiring high capital costs and similarly expensive maintenance). Perhaps, in time, all station services - factories, labs, reprocessing facilities, medical, repair, marketing, office rental etc. could feature player driven elements, creating entirely new markets requiring new types of economic activity in the process. On a related note, given the importance of PR and publicity in the game, and the often impressive ability of the playerbase to produce high quality media, I'd like to see Concord start renting out advertising space on some of those billboards. EGSE Share/Bond Brokerage
Shadarle LI0NS Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 19:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Eefrit Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Eefrit Cue argumentum ad hominem Where I come from people don't hide crucial information from their investors. Especially when that hidden information causes many people to lose large sums of ISK because you were not forthcoming about the massive issues you were having. But hey, I am happy to be labeled a jerk. You may not be as happy with the way people label you with the way FIN is going. Right on cue! Indeed. Though considering how obvious it was I was expecting you to have some sort of comeback... clearly I was expecting too much.
SencneS Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.19 23:07:00 - [23] I still think let the NCP's have the outposts but allow Public POSES. Let people dock and use like a little front end shop, what you have for sale etc. Imagine the 0.7 systems around Jita all their moons used up (Yep just like now) but you can broadcast location via the market window. People fly to you, buy your stuff and it gets tossed into you hull. Large POSes with a "SHOP" modules and 10 Corp hangers hanging off it. But this will NEVER come to light, the last thing CCP wants is MORE objects around moons. Amarr for Life
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.03.20 03:44:00 - [24] I generally like this idea but of course CCP would no doubt implement a very convoluted system if they even considered it. I personally think the next generation of traders will be in first person inside the stations themselves when ambulation comes about. Anything that expands the scope for the Markets in Eve is exciting. Deus Ex Machina ~ Eve Corp, Web Design & Gaming News
Treelox Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.03.20 04:06:00 - [25] While I think the idea that the OP throws around would be fun, I dont see CCP ever implementing something even close to this. What I would like to see though is more industrialist goals that have time sink equivelents on par with Mom or Titan Pilots. For examples; I was sort of dissappointed when CCP "dumbed" down the pre-reqs for Jump Freighters, making it so almost any "common" freighter pilot could pilot one with just a few extra weeks of training. I was also dissappointed how easy it is to have a very decent invention alt with just 1.5months of training from creation. How easy it is to create datacore "farming" characters. While I understand CCP's comercial needs to not alienate the "younger" player base, I think that they casue them self some problems in "older" player retention and intrest/happiness, when they fail to set new higher more difficult "endgame" goals for those of us who have been around for awhile. While I understand that the main emphasis of CCP's game design for eve is around ship pew pew and territorial conquest and defense, which seem to get far more endgame loving and exclusivity, since it is more comercially viable for them. I really hope that they(CCP) realise that there is a small hardcore, slightly insane, bunch of carebears who want such lofty aspirations to struggle towards, as those who wish to be Mom and Titan pilots. --- Durente, I really am not knocking your idea, I too think it would be fun and exciting, what you propose. Unfortunetly I just cant see anyway that it can be implemented without it in the end becoming highly unbalanced, a huge isk faceut, and causing such whining amongst the "have-nots" to be even worse than the cries concerning fairness of the t2 lottery and "t2 cartels", or any combination of the three. I do hope you keep the brain a spinning on things though, who knows you might stumble on something that will work, and provide us all with something great. --
Daallie Dynasty Corporation	Posted - 2008.03.20 04:13:00 - [26] Well you would have to think about it as for some Concord laws you are not allowed to put docking fees or restrictions on an Outpost in non-null sec space goes with why NPC corporations let you dock and have a giant hangar for free. Not to mention if you started placing restrictions or weird rules on a station people would rather go somewhere else. It would make stations a market of themselves. Apply an operation fee to the stations and you have a new very high roller market for eve. Something that the trillionaires in eve would love to have I am sure. Nothing like something to make the richest people richer. Dynasty Corporation
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.20 06:25:00 - [27] Edited by: Akita T on 20/03/2008 06:31:07 The simplest way would be to SIMPLY ALLOW building highsec (but not lowsec) outposts with the following caveats: * no sov level required, but based on standings (like high-sec POSes) * a HUGE initial requirement of "charters" (say, 10 mil charters or so) to bring it up, but zero operating costs * can build ALL regular outpost upgrades (as if you have sov4), again, with the huge charter demand here too * can be built at any "free" planet of moon (no "only one per system" restrictions like 0.0 outposts) * no docking fees possible, and no docking restrictions (anybody can dock at any time, free of charge) * everybody can use all the facilities of the outpost regardless of standings * 10%-50% of all market/repair/lab/manufacture fees would go to "the host empire" I see no problem in allowing this. It's basically just another NPC station, but player-administrated. And with a percentage of all fees going to the "empire" (ISK sink), it's not even "free service" for the owner... unless he sets really low prices, and in that case, somebody else would surely snatch the place in the queue from under its nose soon. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Karanth GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.20 07:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 20/03/2008 06:31:07 The simplest way would be to SIMPLY ALLOW building highsec (but not lowsec) outposts with the following caveats: * no sov level required, but based on standings (like high-sec POSes) * a HUGE initial requirement of "charters" (say, 10 mil charters or so) to bring it up, but zero operating costs * can build ALL regular outpost upgrades (as if you have sov4), again, with the huge charter demand here too * can be built at any "free" planet of moon (no "only one per system" restrictions like 0.0 outposts) * no docking fees possible, and no docking restrictions (anybody can dock at any time, free of charge) * everybody can use all the facilities of the outpost regardless of standings * 10%-50% of all market/repair/lab/manufacture fees would go to "the host empire" I see no problem in allowing this. It's basically just another NPC station, but player-administrated. And with a percentage of all fees going to the "empire" (ISK sink), it's not even "free service" for the owner... unless he sets really low prices, and in that case, somebody else would surely snatch the place in the queue from under its nose soon. I agree that charters would be good for this. They really need some use other than highsec POSes. "Current Earth-Destruction Status"
Imperius Blackheart KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 07:13:00 - [29] Edited by: Imperius Blackheart on 20/03/2008 07:14:17 Wow I couldn't disagree with this concept any more strongly. Essentially you want a Empire outpost because it would represent zero risk, but this is eve NOTHING can have zero risk. So you would have to allow high sec outpost seiges, without capitals, now as a Mercenary the the idea of that simply makes me cry. I don't really see the benefit either, 0.0 is the new fronteer, there are plenty of alliances who want and need outposts but they are big investements, you could join one of them, and if you don't like that idea form your own alliance and carve out your own little bit of space. Do you really think there is a NEED for more outposts in Empire? [/url] Proud member of the Caldari Death Squad
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.20 07:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Imperius Blackheart Essentially you want a Empire outpost because it would represent zero risk, but this is eve NOTHING can have zero risk. So you would have to allow high sec outpost seiges, without capitals, now as a Mercenary the the idea of that simply makes me cry. Actually, I think the idea the OP had is that you wouldn't have any sieges at all, they would be unconquerable (the only way to get one would be either to build, buy or corp-steal one). On the other hand, in my proposed implementation version, the "zero risk" would be pretty much balanced by the "huge investment for next to zero reward" thingy I mean, seriously, other than "economic e-p33n" factor, what GOOD would a PUBLIC NPC-LIKE STATION (but privately-owned) do for you ? Out there in 0.0, it makes sense, it's needed as a base of operations where no other bases are available. But in highsec, where stations are pretty much everywhere ? It's an ISK sink, a totally voluntary one, and it doesn't "break" anything. In my proposed version, anyway. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.

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