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Proposal: The Formation of a Political Party

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LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Marie deMedici My vote is for sale for 5B isk. ;) Can i pay that off... in different kind of favors?
Mr Horizontal KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:18:00 - [32] This I think is a good idea. 2 things on ultra-high lobbying priority: 1) Beef up the share system, specifically providing API tracking. Anyone pledging this will instantly get my support. 2) Ensure the industrial gameplay is actually enjoyable again. Things have got all too technical and not nearly enough return to merit the effort. EVE industry is now too much of a chore than it was a year ago, and it's a lot less fun. This includes sorting out a high-end industrial goal and/or protecting T2 BPOs to be OMGWTFBBQ profit centers again. The real problem with EVE IMO, is that it's now suffering from overcrowding. There are now too many players fighting for too few resources in all too finite an amount of space. I think Empire should grow in size, and new 0.0 space introduced to conquer. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Mr Horizontal KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:49:00 - [33] One other aspect is the distinct lack of any kind of central bank or credit. Currently EBANK is the only possible entity that can act as a central bank of sorts, but even if it had a trillion ISK in it and became the largest player-run public entity, it'd still have less than 1% of the ISK of the whole EVE economy (90 trillion+) - thus it'd have to literally have 20-25 trillion in it to be effective (and that's frankly pretty freakin scary even for me as a board member to consider!). Just thinking out loud here, but an idea I had was to allow us to put ISK against NPC corp shares or bonds, which provide an underlying benchmark of performance, a stock index of sorts, which all interest rates can be benchmarked against, and properly provide a mechanism of interest to counteract any inflation/deflation as monitored by Dr.EyjoG. The important thing to consider is that NPC corps are supposed to be responsible for seeding the BPOs and other NPC trade items used in game, and currently this is not exploited at all. Instead I propose that the products an NPC corp is responsible for affect its share price. (for example Khanid Innovation is supposed to produce the Malediction, so all trades of BPOs of the Khanid ships affect the share price of Khanid Innovation). On the other side of the argument, a lot of NPC corps for less popular items (ie Amarr or bad guys like the Guristas) might have a negative balance sheet, in which case they'd need to release bonds to generate cash to shore up their operations, and thus providing everyone with a form of credit we so badly need to sustain huge operations. Anyway, the technicalities of the mechanics of how NPC corp performance is tracked and managed is entirely a different argument, but the point is it has to be reflective of the larger general economic picture. With this in mind, NPCs would obviously provide extremely low rates of return and on balance they should also reflect the general rate of inflation / interest of the economy, but it does provide a benchmark and also does provide the sorely needed sources of credit and interest in the increasing advancement of the economy. This may be ridiculously unfeasible, but at least it's an idea to have a baseline tradeable 'object' of some kind, that is required on a macro-economic level. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Marie deMedici Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.20 10:06:00 - [34] btw. Being that the CSM guys dont have any real power EXCEPT lobbying the devs. It might really be worthwhile to get anyone from here to there and not really worry about the _one_ agenda they will drive. The reason for this is that the devs will probably want to hear new ideas and not just have a council of people who vote yes and no on ideas. So I assume everybody can get their voice heard if we just have someone who is marketdiscussions-oriented there.
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.20 11:09:00 - [35] Edited by: SonOfAGhost on 20/03/2008 11:16:54 In RL political parties, by their very nature, are anti-democratic istitutions. As such, I oppose their existence, elitist attitudes and stealing power away from the people for themselves. However this is Eve, to hell with the Plebians That said what you're describing sounds more like a special-interest lobby group than a political party. Which is probably more practical TBH. Unless it were to be rolled in with other 'Eve infrastructure' type interests such as industry, mining and corporate/alliance administration, then it might garner enough broader interest to get a candidate elected. EDIT Originally by: Robacz OHGOD... politicians in Eve, I guess next step are lawyers. Oh come on now, you know you want to be able to pod them. Originally by: CCP Explorer This is intended, to not clutter the overview with information that new players don't need in their first few hours. (on stargates not being on overview)
Eefrit Eve Financial Services	Posted - 2008.03.20 11:15:00 - [36] Originally by: Khatred Oh my, the bane of everything that is humane and natural, parties and politics. But I like parties!
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.03.20 11:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Eefrit Originally by: Khatred Oh my, the bane of everything that is humane and natural, parties and politics. But I like parties! I accept people into my party, for a small sum of 100mill isk.
Blazing Fire Interstellar Operations Incorporated Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.20 12:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Hexxx We need the formation of a "political" party with the aim of progressing the interests of the markets via the CSM. There is world outside of EVE you know Count me in. Got some RL experience. Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site Recruitment Looking for PvPeers in 0.0 space Looking for Hulk and Mackinaw pilots. We pay for the Ore Services [Service] Killboard hosting [Service] Forum hosting [Service] Web site hosting [Service] Obelisk for rent [Service] Alliance Creation
Zaepho Advanced Powers Merchant Empire	Posted - 2008.03.20 13:17:00 - [39] Sounds like a good idea to me. I can also offer some hosting and forum running if need be.
Hexxx Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.20 13:45:00 - [40] I really don't think it would be appropriate for EBANK to do this via their forums. EBANK has quite a bit of influence as it is, and I'd prefer that it steers away from the perception that it's having unfair influence on this paticular effort. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Brisco Smiley Peppermint Bay Trading Company	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:48:00 - [41] If there is a political party, I think it should hold early primaries in Sinq Liason and Verge Vendor, but then not count their votes.
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:03:00 - [42] I fully support the idea of a lobbyist group to encourage CCP to make improvements that help us traders and producers. -- Return of the Erf
Fader Bane Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:45:00 - [43] as much as I concur with other player's cynical thoughts on political parties, I do support this idea. I feel as though those who truely care about the economy in EVE and make an effort to understand it, conjugate in this forum. In doing so this forum (market discussions) has achieved almost cult status, isolating from the other popular forums such as CAOD and crime and punishment. As a result of this I would like to an effort to give representation of those in this forum, rather than have all the members of this council be from other sectors of the game with only preliminary knowledge of what is discussed in this forum. ________________________________________
Ramblin Man Empyreum Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2008.03.20 19:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Segge Bolled Originally by: Hexxx 1) Is this worth doing 2) Specifically, what could be done to advance the stated goals 3) Who would be able and willing to participate 1) A very good question. I think it is certainly worth the consideration. I've always considered "the Market" and all related paraphernalia to be a keystone of EVE Online. Consequently, I would like to see it, at worst, protected and at best improved upon further. The construction of a political mechanism to achieve this would appear to be a viable strategy now with the C.S.M. [...] Still, divided as we may be in specific interests, we're all united by a love of ISK and the printing thereof. 2) Things to do (in no exact order): - Present and assert a core leadership team and structure for the Party as soon as possible. [...] - Prepare or acquire an off-site communications medium to facilitate the Party, an obvious example being a forum. [...] Delay and stagnancy are just as big an enemy as conflicting ideas and ideals early on. [...] - Name the Party (I like "Market Forces", but this is just an aside.) - it is just as much a product as an idea to be marketed, so something dually concise and cutting would be nice. Obviously, choice of nominee will have a crucial impact as well. Oddly enough, I used the "players will be more likely to make interest-based groups than alliance-based groups" as an argument point in the last CSM thread (I looked up my comments there today while searching for something else ). That said, it's nice to drop into MD and find it's so! So for now... I'd semi-repeat Hexxx and ask if this thread could be kept to the following points? Should the party be created? Who would be onboard, and who should be in the leadership pool? What would the mission statement encompass? Let's keep the following out for now: Discussion of our platform or specific changes we'd like or problems we'd like noted Who from leadership we'll eventually be putting up as "our candidate" As long as we can agree on a suitably fitting mission statement, then tbh I think we've got a cohesive party. Our platform suggestions can be hammered out within those boundaries in other threads (hopefully on a non-CCP, public forum? ). The eventual candidate choice is more or less irrelevant (aside from getting one registered in time). The candidate is just a conduit for votes and information, imbued with a minimum of trust to act independently -- the party and platform is the important part. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Ramblin Man Empyreum Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2008.03.20 20:09:00 - [45] Personally... Yes, I'm all in favor of a market-oriented party. I agree that the CSM could provide 'us' a window for poking CCP with a stick in regards to some of the less evolved market / corp / share features or lack-thereof in the game. I'd be willing to support the party, and put time into non-EVE aspects of same. (I'm more than a bit burnt out atm, and in any case I'll be at a conference in San Francisco during the Iceland soiree ) As for a mission statement / framing of intent, I'll go along the lines of what was originally suggested. Simply -- we're the party for people who spend lots of time with the economic features of EVE. The party intends to focus on that portion of the game by informing CCP of real use, identifying lacking features, and ultimately trying to offer solutions to same. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Ki Tarra Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.03.20 20:34:00 - [46] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 20/03/2008 20:34:09 Originally by: Marie deMedici My vote is for sale for 5B isk. At that price I would offer 50 votes.
Nex Altrad	Posted - 2008.03.20 23:09:00 - [47] Originally by: Ramblin Man Simply -- we're the party for people who spend lots of time with the economic features of EVE. The party intends to focus on that portion of the game by informing CCP of real use, identifying lacking features, and ultimately trying to offer solutions to same. That's a great start towards a Mission Statement. Now we just need a council. Here are my thoughts, feel free to alter them or to throw rocks at me. Since the Economic Features of EVE touch so many game mechanics, from player experience to market forces, to the design of API apps; I suggest the Party Leadership Council be established in a way to represent this. 7 Members gathered from the following: 2 Members nominated by Financial Institutions (such as EBank and Fury) 2 Designers of apps (such as Eve-Central and EveMon) 3 Members chosen by party forum votes. (Whichever forums we end up using) The 7 Members elect a chairman for the party and assign roles such as forum guru, fund raiser, PR, etc. Al the things we need to get the party functioning. You may have noticed I left out members representing corporations or heavy equipment manufacturers. This was intentional as IÆm sure they will find representation among other parties or candidates. But again this as simply a framework to start discussions. Then the leadership council begins vetting candidates for the CSM position (internal or external). The council members can either chose someone to represent the party, or chose a field of candidates and let the MD world vote. And if our candidates donÆt seem viable, the council can work towards influencing other candidates. Nex Altrad -And where is the profit in that?
Nido Gentz Super Nova Enterprises Terran Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 23:58:00 - [48] Originally by: Brisco Smiley If there is a political party, I think it should hold early primaries in Sinq Liason and Verge Vendor, but then not count their votes. I LOL'ed at that!
Zaepho Advanced Powers Merchant Empire	Posted - 2008.03.21 00:10:00 - [49] So do we like Market Forces? EVE-MARKETFORCES.COM is available currently. I'm considering registering and putting up a set of forums tonight (Rights etc to be granted to those who the community decides are appropriate). Yea or Nay?
Oberon Theros	Posted - 2008.03.21 02:17:00 - [50] Hrm. While I generally agree with the idea, I don't know how feasible it is. specifically, are their enough non-aligned merchants to rival the votes from the bigger alliances?
Kwint Sommer	Posted - 2008.03.21 02:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Oberon Theros are their enough non-aligned merchants to rival the votes from the bigger alliances? Absolutely not. Now, go read the thread and understand why this working is not contingent on that.... Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Oberon Theros Star Ocean Trading inc.	Posted - 2008.03.21 03:16:00 - [52] 1) Traders (folks buying and selling on the market) 2) Bankers 3) T2 BPO owners 4) Large scale production people 5) Small scale production people Is the list I saw. What I mean is this list of people, minus people voting for other people. = non-aligned to another party currently. Or even, how many people are actually represented in those five points? Is the total merchant populace large enough to carry a councilmen?
Kwint Sommer	Posted - 2008.03.21 03:29:00 - [53] From the other thread on the topic: Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Hexxx Hexxx's Solution (tm) Agree to pay someone vast amounts of isk in exchange for pushing our agenda and making progress. Progress is measured and rewarded. We're lobbyists! As I said, we're a special interest group and -unless voting will be publicly accounted for- the only way we're going to have serious influence in this is to lobby outside candidates. There's lots of ways to do this, certainly we have a fair bit of influence, plenty of contacts and enough votes that those factors alone may get us a viable candidate's ear but failing that I'm sure a mothership would be quite convincing and split between the regulars of MD that's an almost trivial cost, especially if it means high-end industrial content. We don't have a lot of votes but we do have the power to influence candidates. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
TheVad	Posted - 2008.03.21 03:36:00 - [54] Edited by: TheVad on 21/03/2008 03:37:27 Originally by: Karanth Edited by: Karanth on 20/03/2008 06:16:16 Chribba would be a landslide, but Hexxx or Ricdic or Shadarle would all do very well I think. EDIT: Treelox too. That would suck time away from them growing EBank. I see the motive to get them in office! :) TheVad
Daeva Vios	Posted - 2008.03.21 08:41:00 - [55] Edited by: Daeva Vios on 21/03/2008 08:44:01 Edited by: Daeva Vios on 21/03/2008 08:42:49 If forming an official party is what we're striving to do here, there needs to be cohesion. I agree with a central ruling council with near-absolute power. It would have the trappings of a democratic-republic system with a bit of meritocracy, since that's largely how the current 'system' is designed. It was mentioned above though not quite in this form: nominations from the major banks, individual power players recognized by the larger community, and a simple majority elected by the forum as a whole. This council would then make decisions for the benefit of the Market group. The Market Discussion represents a significant portion of the movement of goods and capital through the game and keeps things moving in many ways than the larger community recognizes. They have a few names of celebrities, but not much real information. We would need to have a group dedicated to information dispersal. Call it education, call it propaganda, it largely doesn't matter so long as it's truth as we see it. People need to know our official platform. Name doesn't matter so long as it isn't terribly flashy but not very humble and is easy to remember. Ultimately we need to move forward immediately and begin forming an easy-to-communicate platform and decide upon potential candidates.
Hexxx Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.21 15:30:00 - [56] We'll need representatives but here we go... 1) Exchanges (RSEX and/or EGSE) - 1 2) Banks (EBANK, FuryBank, BMBE) - 2 3) IPO Managers - 3 4) Industrial/Manufacturers - 4 That gives us a council of 10. A nice round number. I suppose someone else can represent some of these entities but those are the entities I'd suggest. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Cogwheel	Posted - 2008.03.21 15:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Mr Horizontal One other aspect is the distinct lack of any kind of central bank or credit. Currently EBANK is the only possible entity that can act as a central bank of sorts, but even if it had a trillion ISK in it and became the largest player-run public entity, it'd still have less than 1% of the ISK of the whole EVE economy (90 trillion+) - thus it'd have to literally have 20-25 trillion in it to be effective (and that's frankly pretty freakin scary even for me as a board member to consider!). I just cannot understand people's obsession with forming a central bank. Having a de facto standard is one thing... Everybody involved is taking part voluntarily. But central banks are far and away the strongest destructive forces in modern economics. Why would you voluntarily put so much power into the hands of so few?
Daeva Vios	Posted - 2008.03.21 16:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Hexxx We'll need representatives but here we go... 1) Exchanges (RSEX and/or EGSE) - 1 2) Banks (EBANK, FuryBank, BMBE) - 2 3) IPO Managers - 3 4) Industrial/Manufacturers - 4 That gives us a council of 10. A nice round number. I suppose someone else can represent some of these entities but those are the entities I'd suggest. I don't agree with giving the IPO managers 3 (2 at most) and giving manufacturers 4? This isn't Stations, Starbases and Outposts. Do we want to give the scammers a say too? We can create a position for Riethe. Those extra posts should be forum voted or eliminated.
Zaepho	Posted - 2008.03.21 16:34:00 - [59] eve-marketforces.com registered. It'll be a bit until things propogate properly. Forum will be up by the end of the day to be ready when DNS resolution starts working. I'll be granting Moderation authority to several notables should the community find my forums useful as an off CCP location for the Market Forces lobbying group and/or Party.
Ramblin Man Empyreum Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2008.03.21 16:36:00 - [60] Edited by: Ramblin Man on 21/03/2008 16:38:43 Edit: Well, if need be we can use the website anyway. Still, I think it's a bad party name. I vote against "Market Forces" as the party name. ... it's boring. Look at it this way -- we're a political party representing economics. Our members are like to spend more time with spreadsheets and/or databases than EFT. There's not much 'cool' built into that description, so we do NOT want a boring name. Ideally, I'd rather people come up with something that would get a smirk on TS or Vent when someone mentions it. We want a name that people can say with pride to their mates... not something that they're going to keep secret until the day they vote. Pride = free publicity, more exposure, more votes Boredom = anti-publicity, less exposure, less votes Originally by: Hexxx We'll need representatives but here we go... 1) Exchanges (RSEX and/or EGSE) - 1 2) Banks (EBANK, FuryBank, BMBE) - 2 3) IPO Managers - 2 (-1) 4) Industrial/Manufacturers - 2 (-2) That gives us a council of 7 (-3). I'd get behind this a bit more. I don't particularly have a problem with a council of 10 or your allocation per se, but imo... - Odd-numbered council - if we do decide the council is to be strong, then I never want to deal with tied votes - Fewer over greater - for the initial round, lots of people are going to be throwing their hats in the ring; as a result, I think you might be hard pressed to come up with enough people who aren't already busy with EVE-proper AND aren't in-it-to-win-it, as it were I do think your categories are suitable and sufficiently non-specific though. The roles themselves could conceivably cover a lot of economic-play ground, and they don't mandate an overly-specific person for each position. Flexible! Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.

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