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Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
340
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Posted - 2012.02.23 07:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Look on the bright side, at least you nerds don't need to update your spreadsheets for at least 6 months |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3271
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Posted - 2012.02.23 07:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
new modules, hundreds of them! New market of dust bunnies to sell ammo to!
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Parthonax
11
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Posted - 2012.02.23 07:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Does industry really need a buff? Only thing that needs to change, in my opinion ,is that mining should be the only source of minerals Everything else seems to work fine
if you complain about high pos fuel price..ever considered making your own fuel.? a small group of people can mine enough ice in 2 or 3 hours to fuel a large pos for a month and the PI is relative simple and any overproduction sells well
low mineral prices , well see my intro mining should be the ONLY source of minerals , sure price for t1 sh^ps and modules will go up for a while , when more people start mining again price will stabilize again , even opening the door slightly for nullsec mining maybe Of course mission runners will complain, but hell they already make more than enough with bounties , salvage and LP stores
a change in game mechanics for mining to lock out the bots( desperately needed) shouldn't be that hard , why not remove individual asteroids from the over view and force people to manual lock the rocks or use their scanner to lock asteroids
if you want more research slots well start working for them if you in a corp you will need to whole corp working for that own research pos it is a MMO afterall
more manudacturing slots , sheeesh don't be lazy move away from those trade hubs , there are constellations enough with plenty of manudacturing slots that are never used
So no industry doesn't really need much just a few small things FW ,new player experience and a overhaul in sov game mechanics need attention aswell and probably more than industry in general so this is permanence |
Julian Koll
The Kollektive
13
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Posted - 2012.02.23 08:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
i guess most non-industrialists are getting this wrong:
i as an industrial player don't need new profitable stuff to build. there is plenty of things to build already that make my wallet grow very nicely.
however what i (and i guess lots of others) want is a iteration on the mind numbing clickfest that is the industrial interface at the moment. try starting 90 jobs each day for a week or two and you get a really good feeling of what could be improved in the s&i interface. yeah, this is a game about spaceships, and we all love them and the industry interface is not that bad that it needs fixing asap, but we've been promised ccp looking into it for more than 3 years now (always forget the name of the 'orca-expansion' which was supposed to be the 'industrial expansion')
a second point is that even adding new t1/t2 blueprints doesnt add anything for the industrialist. sure the item is different, but for me its just another line in my spreadsheet and another blueprint icon in my hangar, the process of producing that item is the same as it was before. what would be really nice would be an expansion similar to the t3 production tree, which is different from what you got at t1 or t2. (but as i do t1 mostly, i know to little about it and this might be better explained by someone who knows what he's talking about) |
Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
337
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Posted - 2012.02.23 09:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:and devalue the market even faster.
1) The market is inflating, not deflating. 2) This is due to ISK faucets (bounties and incursions), not mineral faucets. An abundance of minerals would reduce price levels over all. What we are seeing today is an abundance of ISK increasing price levels overall. Industry does NOT CREATE ISK. It creates materials, and stuff that you can buy with isk. However industry is an overall ISK sink because it requires BPOs (bought from NPC's) and BPC's (that need research, that need POS fuels, that need PI taxes paid). |
Valei Khurelem
369
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Posted - 2012.02.23 09:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quote:This is due to ISK faucets (bounties and incursions), not mineral faucets. An abundance of minerals would reduce price levels over all.
Don't forget, there's the problem of mission pretty much handing out ISK left and right too, then there's ratting in 0.0 though that counts towards bounties, all in all, just look at the Euro/Dollar as a real life parallel, ISK is basically like our established currencies in real life, the only problem is that ISK will only correct itself when CCP want it to rather than the players.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
141
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Posted - 2012.02.23 19:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
As an academic exercise one could try to imagine eves economy in a closed loop model: All ISK removed by sinks is put in a pool. ISK faucets scale dynamically based on the fullness of the pool. CCP can easily track the relevant ISK movements and only has to decide what percentages of the total faucet volume goes to which player activity. By tuning the relative pool fullness level, CCP can easily control the ISK/effort ratio to the desired balance. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
13
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:As an academic exercise one could try to imagine eves economy in a closed loop model: All ISK removed by sinks is put in a pool. ISK faucets scale dynamically based on the fullness of the pool. CCP can easily track the relevant ISK movements and only has to decide what percentages of the total faucet volume goes to which player activity. By tuning the relative pool fullness level, CCP can easily control the ISK/effort ratio to the desired balance. This is the dream of every central planning banker. But it doesn't work, even in a closed model because within eve itself are innumerable variables. Once you tweak anything in the sandbox, it effects everything else.
Tuning payouts could undo work on other expansions, radically change fleet composition, alter the amount of combat, increase or decrease griefing, change population flows.
That's not an argument by me not to do it, but when Eve starts tweaking the sandbox, the effects lead to a different game for everyone. |
Jita Alt666
932
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:As an academic exercise one could try to imagine eves economy in a closed loop model: All ISK removed by sinks is put in a pool. ISK faucets scale dynamically based on the fullness of the pool. CCP can easily track the relevant ISK movements and only has to decide what percentages of the total faucet volume goes to which player activity. By tuning the relative pool fullness level, CCP can easily control the ISK/effort ratio to the desired balance. This is the dream of every central planning banker. But it doesn't work, even in a closed model because within eve itself are innumerable variables. Once you tweak anything in the sandbox, it effects everything else. Tuning payouts could undo work on other expansions, radically change fleet composition, alter the amount of combat, increase or decrease griefing, change population flows. That's not an argument by me not to do it, but when Eve starts tweaking the sandbox, the effects lead to a different game for everyone.
That is the problem with socialist economic policies.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1266
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Maybe the game is going "Mad Max" and there won't be any industry at all.
That would be .... cool.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
1016
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Posted - 2012.02.23 22:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
How to help industry:
1) End drone alloys 2) Reduce the drop rate of low-meta modules in missions so fewer things are reprocessed 3) Crack down on mining and mission bots 4) Improve the clickfest that is PI and the S&I interface 5) Make it easier for people to blow stuff up / get blown up so that more industry is needed
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2390
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Posted - 2012.02.23 22:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Allow me to convey what I am sure our Mittani's sincere and heartfelt apology for failing to please Krixtal Icefluxor, noted for his good judgment and sensible tastes shown by enjoying ice mining. He will certainly readjust his priorities in light of this new information. I, and the community at large, appreciate your input. |
Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
339
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:As an academic exercise one could try to imagine eves economy in a closed loop model: All ISK removed by sinks is put in a pool. ISK faucets scale dynamically based on the fullness of the pool. CCP can easily track the relevant ISK movements and only has to decide what percentages of the total faucet volume goes to which player activity. By tuning the relative pool fullness level, CCP can easily control the ISK/effort ratio to the desired balance.
Already been done a few months (years?) ago by the economist. They worked out where most of the isk was coming from and surprisingly it was insurance payouts. So that got nerfed. Missions got nerfed next, etc.
But CCP has an even better mechanism to control the economy: PLEX. Because only CCP can create both PLEX and ISK, they can effectively "make" plex and push them onto the market, giving away game time (that didn't cost CCP anything*** because they made it) to soak up excess ISK. Since you would be buying these PLEX from a CCP alt, CCP would hold or destroy that ISK and thus remove it from the economy.
And they can also "make" ISK and inject it into the market by buying up PLEX that is for sale by players. The players don't know (or care) where the ISK comes from. And the PLEX again can be held by CCP or destroyed as they see fit. PLEX has effectively become as useful as a treasury note.
EDIT: *** not entirely true - it does cost CCP something - it costs them the revenue they would otherwise have gotten by people buying that PLEX from them. Maybe. You could argue that those people were just speculating and did not expect to actually buy PLEX. Either way despite the cost, CCP can see this as an investment into the smooth running of their game. So what if it costs a few thousand dollars' worth of revenue here and there if the economy is sustainable and stable in the long term? Because if the economy tanks and people stop playing, it will cost them a LOT more. |
Alexa Coates
Lexa And Rob Industries
61
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
you've gotten less than a spit of information about the expansion, and you are already bitching? seriously? Grow up for christs sake you ungrateful pricks. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
341
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Posted - 2012.02.24 11:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tarsus Zateki wrote:I trust you have some suggestions for different ways to make selecting a blueprint and factory slot more interesting and exciting. Perhaps you're running for the CSM as a representative of industrialists? Have you even made a decent well thought out proposal to the current CSM in their forum?
Of course not; its so much easier to complain than it is to be a functional part of the solution.
God it's late. I need some sleep.................
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
341
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Posted - 2012.02.24 11:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Allow me to convey what I am sure our Mittani's sincere and heartfelt apology for failing to please Krixtal Icefluxor, noted for his good judgment and sensible tastes shown by enjoying ice mining. He will certainly readjust his priorities in light of this new information. I, and the community at large, appreciate your input.
This is crazy talk and nothing else. Next and YAWN. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
142
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Posted - 2012.02.26 18:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:As an academic exercise one could try to imagine eves economy in a closed loop model: All ISK removed by sinks is put in a pool. ISK faucets scale dynamically based on the fullness of the pool. CCP can easily track the relevant ISK movements and only has to decide what percentages of the total faucet volume goes to which player activity. By tuning the relative pool fullness level, CCP can easily control the ISK/effort ratio to the desired balance. This is the dream of every central planning banker. But it doesn't work, even in a closed model because within eve itself are innumerable variables. Once you tweak anything in the sandbox, it effects everything else. Tuning payouts could undo work on other expansions, radically change fleet composition, alter the amount of combat, increase or decrease griefing, change population flows. Of course it would affect all areas of the game more or less directly, but this is not at all different from the changes made to the game by CCP that have large repercussions. New activities or ships, buffs and nerfs. Except that CCP intervention is usually rare, late and often overdone. If we can agree that a balance of faucets and sinks is desirable, it leads to the question of how to do it. CCP seems unable to do it and/or incurs the rage of a zillion bears when they even hint at a faucet nerf...
Ptraci wrote:But CCP has an even better mechanism to control the economy: PLEX. Because only CCP can create both PLEX and ISK, they can effectively "make" plex and push them onto the market, giving away game time (that didn't cost CCP anything*** because they made it) to soak up excess ISK. Since you would be buying these PLEX from a CCP alt, CCP would hold or destroy that ISK and thus remove it from the economy.
And they can also "make" ISK and inject it into the market by buying up PLEX that is for sale by players. The players don't know (or care) where the ISK comes from. And the PLEX again can be held by CCP or destroyed as they see fit. PLEX has effectively become as useful as a treasury note. For all we know CCPs influence on the PLEX market so far has only been through RL promotions. Even though they are considering it, they denied having ever manipulated PLEXs by interacting with the in-game market. Ofc if there is proof showing otherwise, please share. |
baltec1
712
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Posted - 2012.02.26 18:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Julian Koll wrote:
however what i (and i guess lots of others) want is a iteration on the mind numbing clickfest that is the industrial interface at the moment. try starting 90 jobs each day for a week or two and you get a really good feeling of what could be improved in the s&i interface.
Its what 3 clicks and done? I spend most of my time lugging the minerals about and seconds setting up manufacturing/research/invention orders. |
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
0
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Posted - 2012.02.26 18:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
As an idustry minded toon, I really don't think industry needs more "stuff", just a refinement of what we have.
Here are just a few ideas that I would consider an industry update.
1. Starting jobs, be it manufacture, research, invention ... less of a clickfest, if I am starting 10 jobs in a row at the same facility, why do I have to select it every dang time?
2. PI clickfest. Not exactly sure how to reduce the number of clicks so, any ideas will be welcome. It is currently MUCH better than the original PI but, some tweeks could be made.
3. Exhumer Buff. as these are T2 ships and paper tanked, a slight buff to either HP and/or extra mid or low-slot with CPU/PG to match would not make them un-gankable but would not make it quite so easy.
4. Corp Management Interface. Any improvements to make this a bit more intuative would benifit all corps.
5. Remove/change Drone Region drops. :-)
6. A mechanism to make Bot-mining more difficult. All belts must be scanned daily? |
Sloppy Podfarts
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.02.26 18:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Its what 3 clicks and done? I spend most of my time lugging the minerals about and seconds setting up manufacturing/research/invention orders.
OWNED |
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3288
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Posted - 2012.02.26 18:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
Im sorry but my ideas would make most industiralist squirm a bit.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
343
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Posted - 2012.02.26 19:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Allow me to convey what I am sure our Mittani's sincere and heartfelt apology for failing to please Krixtal Icefluxor, noted for his good judgment and sensible tastes shown by enjoying ice mining. He will certainly readjust his priorities in light of this new information. I, and the community at large, appreciate your input.
Quite a HUGE STRETCH from the simplicity of my OP.
GOD you guys are pathetic..................... OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
5
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Posted - 2012.03.01 15:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
i gotta agree, i dont want a buff, im not whining about "waah! i dont make 9billion isk/hour in my hulk!" im not even going to gripe about t2 bpos
just make things a little bit more efficient. it is NOT just 3 clicks for some of us. try inventing 20 BPCs every 40 minutes for days. it gets pretty annoying. This isnt a hhuge change either (no setting up invention jobs will never be "fun") but you could just go in and add a few lines of code to streamline things a bit and make a bunch of industrialists much happier.
this forum is full of the suggestions Im talking about, though I will say the OP did not outline any of them
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69591&find=unread
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Rixiu
SnowNiggs.
104
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Posted - 2012.03.01 16:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP sees no need to improve industry since their mid-term goal is to replace the player crafting with ships and items directly in the nex store. |
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
5
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Posted - 2012.03.02 03:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rixiu wrote:CCP sees no need to improve industry since their mid-term goal is to replace the player crafting with ships and items directly in the nex store.
uhmm...so...False.
Direct line from CCP director is that functional items will never be sold in NEX.
ONLY items that have NO impact on gameplay will be sold in the NEX store. |
Tarikan
Fusion Death Inc. Eternal Evocations
5
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Posted - 2012.03.02 03:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
When you say industry gets no love, do you mean no significant change?
the Assault Frig buff has basically made all AFs double in price, if that's not a buff to some part of industry obviously you don't know what industry is....granted i don't know either vOv.
I'm assuming you mean you want to get the same payment as ratters, mission runners, incursion bears, and exploration nuts?
EDIT: Proof reading would help me better |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
991
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Posted - 2012.03.02 03:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Seleene is looking for ideas towards an "Industrial expansion". What would you like to see?
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T'Pawhl
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.18 20:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
Heh, EVE Online is now run by the null-bears, and they bot their Industry anyhow, so of course there's not going to be any Industry updates...
In fact, if anything, they would nerf Industry, IE more expensive fuel, move ICE out of hi-sec, add more taxes, etc etc to give themselves a bigger edge- oh wait that's exactly what happened.... |
Duvida
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.03.19 07:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
I'm looking forward to the expansion after Inferno, "Mists of Panda-Jita".
But yeah, the push for 'war' in Inferno will probably indirectly benefit industry. But what specific items of improvement, or even new things, were you thinking of? |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
250
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Posted - 2012.03.19 08:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
Look at the industrybear cry, abloo bloo bloo
e: to be constructive, industry - structurally speaking - is far less broken than other parts of the game. Fix those first, and then look at industry. |
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