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Marcus Griffin
Morning Star Operations
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Posted - 2008.03.21 15:04:00 -
[1]
This needs stopped, if the devs and GM's do actually read the forums they need to listen to us and do something about salvage thieves, they can just come in and steal half your bounty and your loot and theres often not much we can do about it. There needs to be some sort of proper way that we can defend whats ours.
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Commander OTG
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Posted - 2008.03.21 15:52:00 -
[2]
Strange, I was thinking that the Devs and GMs should listen to us salvagers. After I have spent over 6 months of my eve life perfecting my salvaging and exploration skills, spending every spare isk on rigs and implants to increase the effects of my profession, spent countless hours bookmarking grids across the systems to provide the best coverage in those systems.....and then a lowly mission runner comes along and screams that the junk floating freely in space belongs to him and entire game mechanics need to be changed in his favor...how absurd!!
Technically, when you kill an npc, you are flagged to the victims faction. This means that the wreck infact belongs to the victim and not the person that killed it.
If they changed the wreck mechanic to flag the salvager to you then they should change the loot mechanic for those loot thieves that steal from war victims. The way it works now...you spend you isk on declaring a war against an enemy...you hunt them down and kill them and then some sneaky little guy comes along and grabs the loot before you can get to it..and the thief gets flagged to the owner of the wreck..the guy that is somewhere across space in a clone vat..where is the righteousness in that?
As has been posted in a dozen salvage threads before yours....move out of the main hubs....salvage your wrecks as you go..get a buddy to salvage for you..or blow the darn things up and move on.
 Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Marcus Griffin
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:02:00 -
[3]
Well that was put very eloquently, but in the end if i go off and do a mission and i kill something then i expect to get all the bounty myself not half of it to go to some bum pirate who has been able to warp in and sit there while i do the mission, theres nothing i can do about that is there? I'd love to be able to not stick to the main hubs but unfortunately the location is random.
You make a very good case but in the end ive worked hard for my profession played long enough put all my efforts into it and I believe that my interests should be looked after as well.
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Strak Yogorn
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:06:00 -
[4]
salvage as you go, thats your problem solved ..
you have all the right to your loot, salvage is first come, first serve. it works exactly as intended, so nothing is broken, and nothing to fix.
adapt or lose it
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Valron Xizor
The Xizor Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:07:00 -
[5]
I think the issue here is that the mission runner cannot do anything about it. I dont think he's asking for exlusive rights, just that should someone steal his loot there should be some way in which he can defend it.
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Marcus Griffin
Morning Star Operations
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Marcus Griffin on 21/03/2008 16:09:25
What about the bounty, for example in my last mission I had to share with some guy that warped in, i ended up with something like 2.3 mill that should have been 4.6mill.
Exactly what valron said, i should have the rights to protect myself from directly losign ISK and to protect MY loot/salvage.
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Commander OTG
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:34:00 -
[7]
I whole hardedly agree with protecting your interests. It was the point in my opening statement and glad you took it well.
The matter revolves around overcoming and adapting to the changes in the Eve Universe.
Missions never have and never will be instanced. This means that ways will be discovered to find you and take from you. Your job is to figure a way to defeat the the invaders and protect what you feel is yours.
One method is to fly a Marauder...tractor your own wrecks and salvage...you can fly out of the mission and let the rats take their tole on him. There are compromises and inconvienances that you will need to endure in order to reap all the rewards available. There is a large discussion about whether you can make more isk by just going on to the next mission rather then spending 4 times longer to gain the salvage..
Either way, salvage is a commodity and anything that has a value in Eve is going to draw the attention of the less desirable pilots.
Good luck to you and check out the thread titles MY JOB AS A SALVAGER in this same section.
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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A Belief
Moonfrog Distribution
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:38:00 -
[8]
Edited by: A Belief on 21/03/2008 16:38:08
I fit a salvager as turret 8. You should too.
Nothing is yours until it's ISK in your wallet. So it goes.
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Kusha'an
Equinox Industrial Co.
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kusha''an on 21/03/2008 16:40:12
Originally by: Marcus Griffin
Edited by: Marcus Griffin on 21/03/2008 16:09:25
What about the bounty, for example in my last mission I had to share with some guy that warped in, i ended up with something like 2.3 mill that should have been 4.6mill.
Exactly what valron said, i should have the rights to protect myself from directly losign ISK and to protect MY loot/salvage.
I thought the bounty thing had been fixed with the 1.1 patch. Or was that only the reward?
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Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:30:00 -
[10]
As soon as salvagers get flagged to mission runners, you're gonna find a TON of CNR wrecks in highsec.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Vikarion
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:21:00 -
[11]
The salvage rules are not going to be changed. Not now, not (in the foreseeable future) ever. The GMs have directly stated this, and the ability of people to salvage your wrecks without being flagged will not be changed.
Seriously, if you can't stand someone coming in and taking your wrecks one or two times out of every fifty missions then you really need to find another game. EvE is, in many ways, about controlling yourself until the proper time for redress of wrongs.
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Kane Kaldorei
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Pwett
As soon as salvagers get flagged to mission runners, you're gonna find a TON of CNR wrecks in highsec.
This!
All that will happen is that a BS mission runner that thinks he's this **** will open up on the dessie salvaging as he's obviously superior, then two seconds later find himself quickly learning about hotdropping and EVE pvp gank style  then the BS will die, and he'll probably then start whining about that too.....
Also bear in mind that if salvagers end up flagged, they've got nothing to lose by stealing your loot too, rather than just the salvage. Have fun with that 
As has already been said, devs said it will not change, if you've got 8 hi-slots not packing at least one salvager is your own fault, there are plenty of ways to avoid salvagers (not thieves) I suggest that the whining mission runners learn them.
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Myshella Drake
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:18:00 -
[13]
4 threads about ninja salvaging in a row...amazing. CCP has stated that the current system works as intended. Salvaging has been around for quite a while now and im sure they have thought the current situation over many many times. All these threads do is stir up both sides AND attract more people to salvage missions. Just yesterday i went for a quick run in a system next door to Motsu and there were 4+ salvagers operating. When i started a year ago i meet 1 other salvager in my first few weeks.
This is a very hot topic at the moment and im sure the Devs are looking into it again. But don't expect flagging to be the solution.
.....
Originally by: CCP Prism X
If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former.
nuff said
------------------
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Cae'phon
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:27:00 -
[14]
True, you can always look at it that you would have never had the salvage anyway if it had not been added to the game for rigs, so stop whining. This is not a universe that everyone looks out for everyone else. I have a vested interest in my own gain, not yours or any one elses, so I look after me... Do the same. (friends excluded from the non-vested interest of course)
I for one don't mind when someone clears out my wrecks, keeps the clutter down on my screen when I am mining. In that regards I usually only dalvage when i clean up my corp-mates freshly finished mission, or vice versa. Go <BEAST> (old SWG Reference)
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:28:00 -
[15]
If you would like to protect "your" (lol) salvage, run missions in lowsec.
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Keraa
Aquila Astralis
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Posted - 2008.03.22 00:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Marcus Griffin
This needs stopped, if the devs and GM's do actually read the forums they need to listen to us and do something about salvage thieves, they can just come in and steal half your bounty and your loot and theres often not much we can do about it. There needs to be some sort of proper way that we can defend whats ours.
If they are looting your wrecks and salvaging then you can attck them as they are flagged for stealing the cargo.
You dont lose bounty as the bounties are already paid to you for the kill.
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sasf
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Posted - 2008.03.22 01:57:00 -
[17]
If they ever do flag salvagers for stealing it'll take months to wipe the smile from my face. Why do peeps assume us mission runners are stupid enough to engage with our PVE ships.
And just because we mission we dont know how to PVP. If, and i know its a big if, they do change the rules and salvagers start complaining can i simply say its game mechanics?
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Conq Er
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Posted - 2008.03.22 07:11:00 -
[18]
More carebear tears ITT. 
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Zin Zy
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 09:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Marcus Griffin
This needs stopped, if the devs and GM's do actually read the forums they need to listen to us and do something about salvage thieves, they can just come in and steal half your bounty and your loot and theres often not much we can do about it. There needs to be some sort of proper way that we can defend whats ours.
One cannot steal what is not your's. Perhpas you should read the forums, dev blogs and understand the definition of the salvage rules.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.22 09:23:00 -
[20]
Linkage
Wrecks
What are wrecks?
When a ship is destroyed, whether it is a player ship or an NPC ship, it leaves a wreck. The modules and items from the cargohold that are not destroyed in the ship's explotion, can be looted. In addition to this, raw materials can be extracted from the wreck by using salvaging. The materials salvaged can be sold on the market or used to create rigs.
Note that anyone can salvage materials from wrecks, regardless of who destroyed the ship, while looting items from a wreck can get you flagged and a legal target for the owner.
____
How can it get MORE clear ?
1|2|3|4|5. |
Dragon Lord
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.22 10:42:00 -
[21]
In all honesty you realy dont want to have the salvagers flagged if they steel ur salvage. Why? well same reason it can be dangerous to have loot thiefs flagged as i when i first started missioning found to my cost.
You see just because the guys in a salvage ship doesnt mean he doesnt have a pvp fitted battleship back at the local station. When you fire on him, you become flagged to him, he nips back to the station grabs hes pvp bs comes back and pops ur mission boat, now thats alot more expensive than loosing a bit of salvage.
Happend to me back in the day when i used to use a rox for lvl3s (long before the drake came out) now loosing a well fitted rox cost me 50m or so at the time. Today depending on what you fly it could get very expensive.
Just get a golem and salvage as you go, i just finished marauders lvl5 the other day so my golem realy rocks for missions now.
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Dolemite2K
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Posted - 2008.03.22 11:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Commander OTG
The matter revolves around overcoming and adapting to the changes in the Eve Universe.
adapting in EVE for many people means to just ***** and whine until CCP changes what ever they're whining about in their favor. Sadly if you look at some of the changes over the years it's a proven way to get what you want.
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Kyle Blade
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Posted - 2008.03.22 13:04:00 -
[23]
There is no such thing as a salvage thief.
If you're sharing bounties with people who aren't in your gang then it's unintended and you should file a bug report but salvage belongs to the first person to get it into their cargohold.
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Nitemare111
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.03.22 17:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: A Belief
Nothing is yours until it's ISK in your wallet. So it goes.
This. This is the heart of EVE.
/offtopic: Adding this to my sig. It's perfect.
------
"When in doubt, aim for the crotch."
"There's no problem that the application of suitable firepower cannot fix."
Originally by: A Belief
Nothing is yours until it's ISK in your wallet. So it goes. |
Sigul Siento
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.22 18:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Valron Xizor
I think the issue here is that the mission runner cannot do anything about it. I dont think he's asking for exlusive rights, just that should someone steal his loot there should be some way in which he can defend it.
You can, if it's loot. You can't, if it's salvage, as it's not yours in the first place. Like asteroids and such. What you CAN do if you want salvage is to salvage it before anyone else. Rather easy, in fact.
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Barbelo Valentinian
Liberty Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/03/2008 00:31:29
If salvage isn't "yours" why is loot "yours" (i.e. flagged)?
The ship was owned by someone else (notionally, the NPCs you killed).
It has now been destroyed (by you).
So surely now EITHER nobody owns any of it - neither loot nor salvage - OR the killer has whatever passes for ownership rights in this "harsh" universe, over both loot and salvage 
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Vadimik
Misty Weave
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:36:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Vadimik on 23/03/2008 00:39:00
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
So surely now EITHER nobody owns any of it - neither loot nor salvage - OR the killer has whatever passes for ownership rights in this "harsh" universe, over both loot and salvage
Loot was not "owned" for some time as well. Then there was a change to jetcan flagging, and loot cans were changed among with them.
Salvage, however, it another story, mostly cause you need a module and skills to "take" it, so you generate it the moment you salvage, not when you kill the ship.
Simply put, you don't get even rudimentary rights on things not yet spawned.
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Ramon Sohei
URSALIS LOGISTICS GROUP
N O V A
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:18:00 -
[28]
So seriously, you don't see something wrong when you are in a room fighting and next to you is an "uninvited guest" salvaging/taking those wrecks?
I mean, I can see where if you left the room, its open business, but having these people pop up in your missions while you are in there and now happening on almost every mission its getting out of control. (there's many people competing on some systems)
The only recourse has been to warp out and back in to get the NPCs target the salvagers.
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:48:00 -
[29]
Quote:
The only recourse has been to warp out and back in to get the NPCs target the salvagers.
that doesn't work. I just warp out, wait 3 mins or so, and warp back.
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Richard Butt
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.23 09:42:00 -
[30]
You know what, this is completely right.
And they need to do something about asteroid thieves as well. I mean, I was killing NPCs in a belt the other day, and someone came along and started mining the asteroids nearby me! Even though it was perfectly obvious that I intended to come back in a different ship in an hour or so's time and mine them myself later on. Honestly, just because it's unowned crap hanging around that I may or may not have had the skills and/or equipment to collect myself, people think they can help themselves just because they got there first?
What CCP need to do is make it so that whenever you warp to any location, everything within 100km is flagged as yours and nobody else is allowed to warp to that area. Problem solved, and we can all get back to being antisocial little carebears pretending we're playing a single-player game with a chat function.
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