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Marcus Griffin
Morning Star Operations
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Posted - 2008.03.21 15:04:00 -
[1]
This needs stopped, if the devs and GM's do actually read the forums they need to listen to us and do something about salvage thieves, they can just come in and steal half your bounty and your loot and theres often not much we can do about it. There needs to be some sort of proper way that we can defend whats ours.
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Commander OTG
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Posted - 2008.03.21 15:52:00 -
[2]
Strange, I was thinking that the Devs and GMs should listen to us salvagers. After I have spent over 6 months of my eve life perfecting my salvaging and exploration skills, spending every spare isk on rigs and implants to increase the effects of my profession, spent countless hours bookmarking grids across the systems to provide the best coverage in those systems.....and then a lowly mission runner comes along and screams that the junk floating freely in space belongs to him and entire game mechanics need to be changed in his favor...how absurd!!
Technically, when you kill an npc, you are flagged to the victims faction. This means that the wreck infact belongs to the victim and not the person that killed it.
If they changed the wreck mechanic to flag the salvager to you then they should change the loot mechanic for those loot thieves that steal from war victims. The way it works now...you spend you isk on declaring a war against an enemy...you hunt them down and kill them and then some sneaky little guy comes along and grabs the loot before you can get to it..and the thief gets flagged to the owner of the wreck..the guy that is somewhere across space in a clone vat..where is the righteousness in that?
As has been posted in a dozen salvage threads before yours....move out of the main hubs....salvage your wrecks as you go..get a buddy to salvage for you..or blow the darn things up and move on.
Quote: Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Marcus Griffin
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:02:00 -
[3]
Well that was put very eloquently, but in the end if i go off and do a mission and i kill something then i expect to get all the bounty myself not half of it to go to some bum pirate who has been able to warp in and sit there while i do the mission, theres nothing i can do about that is there? I'd love to be able to not stick to the main hubs but unfortunately the location is random.
You make a very good case but in the end ive worked hard for my profession played long enough put all my efforts into it and I believe that my interests should be looked after as well.
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Strak Yogorn
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:06:00 -
[4]
salvage as you go, thats your problem solved ..
you have all the right to your loot, salvage is first come, first serve. it works exactly as intended, so nothing is broken, and nothing to fix.
adapt or lose it
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Valron Xizor
The Xizor Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:07:00 -
[5]
I think the issue here is that the mission runner cannot do anything about it. I dont think he's asking for exlusive rights, just that should someone steal his loot there should be some way in which he can defend it.
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Marcus Griffin
Morning Star Operations
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Marcus Griffin on 21/03/2008 16:09:25 What about the bounty, for example in my last mission I had to share with some guy that warped in, i ended up with something like 2.3 mill that should have been 4.6mill.
Exactly what valron said, i should have the rights to protect myself from directly losign ISK and to protect MY loot/salvage.
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Commander OTG
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:34:00 -
[7]
I whole hardedly agree with protecting your interests. It was the point in my opening statement and glad you took it well.
The matter revolves around overcoming and adapting to the changes in the Eve Universe.
Missions never have and never will be instanced. This means that ways will be discovered to find you and take from you. Your job is to figure a way to defeat the the invaders and protect what you feel is yours.
One method is to fly a Marauder...tractor your own wrecks and salvage...you can fly out of the mission and let the rats take their tole on him. There are compromises and inconvienances that you will need to endure in order to reap all the rewards available. There is a large discussion about whether you can make more isk by just going on to the next mission rather then spending 4 times longer to gain the salvage..
Either way, salvage is a commodity and anything that has a value in Eve is going to draw the attention of the less desirable pilots.
Good luck to you and check out the thread titles MY JOB AS A SALVAGER in this same section.
Quote: Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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A Belief
Moonfrog Distribution
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:38:00 -
[8]
Edited by: A Belief on 21/03/2008 16:38:08 I fit a salvager as turret 8. You should too.
Nothing is yours until it's ISK in your wallet. So it goes.
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Kusha'an
Equinox Industrial Co.
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kusha''an on 21/03/2008 16:40:12
Originally by: Marcus Griffin Edited by: Marcus Griffin on 21/03/2008 16:09:25 What about the bounty, for example in my last mission I had to share with some guy that warped in, i ended up with something like 2.3 mill that should have been 4.6mill.
Exactly what valron said, i should have the rights to protect myself from directly losign ISK and to protect MY loot/salvage.
I thought the bounty thing had been fixed with the 1.1 patch. Or was that only the reward?
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:30:00 -
[10]
As soon as salvagers get flagged to mission runners, you're gonna find a TON of CNR wrecks in highsec. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Vikarion
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:21:00 -
[11]
The salvage rules are not going to be changed. Not now, not (in the foreseeable future) ever. The GMs have directly stated this, and the ability of people to salvage your wrecks without being flagged will not be changed.
Seriously, if you can't stand someone coming in and taking your wrecks one or two times out of every fifty missions then you really need to find another game. EvE is, in many ways, about controlling yourself until the proper time for redress of wrongs. --------
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Kane Kaldorei
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Pwett As soon as salvagers get flagged to mission runners, you're gonna find a TON of CNR wrecks in highsec.
This!
All that will happen is that a BS mission runner that thinks he's this **** will open up on the dessie salvaging as he's obviously superior, then two seconds later find himself quickly learning about hotdropping and EVE pvp gank style then the BS will die, and he'll probably then start whining about that too.....
Also bear in mind that if salvagers end up flagged, they've got nothing to lose by stealing your loot too, rather than just the salvage. Have fun with that 
As has already been said, devs said it will not change, if you've got 8 hi-slots not packing at least one salvager is your own fault, there are plenty of ways to avoid salvagers (not thieves) I suggest that the whining mission runners learn them.
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Myshella Drake
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:18:00 -
[13]
4 threads about ninja salvaging in a row...amazing. CCP has stated that the current system works as intended. Salvaging has been around for quite a while now and im sure they have thought the current situation over many many times. All these threads do is stir up both sides AND attract more people to salvage missions. Just yesterday i went for a quick run in a system next door to Motsu and there were 4+ salvagers operating. When i started a year ago i meet 1 other salvager in my first few weeks.
This is a very hot topic at the moment and im sure the Devs are looking into it again. But don't expect flagging to be the solution.
.....
Originally by: CCP Prism X
If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former.
nuff said ------------------
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Cae'phon
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:27:00 -
[14]
True, you can always look at it that you would have never had the salvage anyway if it had not been added to the game for rigs, so stop whining. This is not a universe that everyone looks out for everyone else. I have a vested interest in my own gain, not yours or any one elses, so I look after me... Do the same. (friends excluded from the non-vested interest of course)
I for one don't mind when someone clears out my wrecks, keeps the clutter down on my screen when I am mining. In that regards I usually only dalvage when i clean up my corp-mates freshly finished mission, or vice versa. Go <BEAST> (old SWG Reference)
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:28:00 -
[15]
If you would like to protect "your" (lol) salvage, run missions in lowsec.
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Keraa
Aquila Astralis
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Posted - 2008.03.22 00:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Marcus Griffin This needs stopped, if the devs and GM's do actually read the forums they need to listen to us and do something about salvage thieves, they can just come in and steal half your bounty and your loot and theres often not much we can do about it. There needs to be some sort of proper way that we can defend whats ours.
If they are looting your wrecks and salvaging then you can attck them as they are flagged for stealing the cargo. You dont lose bounty as the bounties are already paid to you for the kill.
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sasf
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Posted - 2008.03.22 01:57:00 -
[17]
If they ever do flag salvagers for stealing it'll take months to wipe the smile from my face. Why do peeps assume us mission runners are stupid enough to engage with our PVE ships. And just because we mission we dont know how to PVP. If, and i know its a big if, they do change the rules and salvagers start complaining can i simply say its game mechanics?
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Conq Er
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Posted - 2008.03.22 07:11:00 -
[18]
More carebear tears ITT.   
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Zin Zy
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 09:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Marcus Griffin This needs stopped, if the devs and GM's do actually read the forums they need to listen to us and do something about salvage thieves, they can just come in and steal half your bounty and your loot and theres often not much we can do about it. There needs to be some sort of proper way that we can defend whats ours.
One cannot steal what is not your's. Perhpas you should read the forums, dev blogs and understand the definition of the salvage rules.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.22 09:23:00 -
[20]
Linkage
Wrecks What are wrecks?
When a ship is destroyed, whether it is a player ship or an NPC ship, it leaves a wreck. The modules and items from the cargohold that are not destroyed in the ship's explotion, can be looted. In addition to this, raw materials can be extracted from the wreck by using salvaging. The materials salvaged can be sold on the market or used to create rigs.
Note that anyone can salvage materials from wrecks, regardless of who destroyed the ship, while looting items from a wreck can get you flagged and a legal target for the owner.
____
How can it get MORE clear ?
1|2|3|4|5. |

Dragon Lord
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.22 10:42:00 -
[21]
In all honesty you realy dont want to have the salvagers flagged if they steel ur salvage. Why? well same reason it can be dangerous to have loot thiefs flagged as i when i first started missioning found to my cost.
You see just because the guys in a salvage ship doesnt mean he doesnt have a pvp fitted battleship back at the local station. When you fire on him, you become flagged to him, he nips back to the station grabs hes pvp bs comes back and pops ur mission boat, now thats alot more expensive than loosing a bit of salvage.
Happend to me back in the day when i used to use a rox for lvl3s (long before the drake came out) now loosing a well fitted rox cost me 50m or so at the time. Today depending on what you fly it could get very expensive.
Just get a golem and salvage as you go, i just finished marauders lvl5 the other day so my golem realy rocks for missions now.
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Dolemite2K
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Posted - 2008.03.22 11:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Commander OTG
The matter revolves around overcoming and adapting to the changes in the Eve Universe.
adapting in EVE for many people means to just ***** and whine until CCP changes what ever they're whining about in their favor. Sadly if you look at some of the changes over the years it's a proven way to get what you want.
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Kyle Blade
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Posted - 2008.03.22 13:04:00 -
[23]
There is no such thing as a salvage thief.
If you're sharing bounties with people who aren't in your gang then it's unintended and you should file a bug report but salvage belongs to the first person to get it into their cargohold.
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Nitemare111
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.03.22 17:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: A Belief
Nothing is yours until it's ISK in your wallet. So it goes.
This. This is the heart of EVE.
/offtopic: Adding this to my sig. It's perfect. ------ "When in doubt, aim for the crotch." "There's no problem that the application of suitable firepower cannot fix."
Originally by: A Belief Nothing is yours until it's ISK in your wallet. So it goes.
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Sigul Siento
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.22 18:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Valron Xizor I think the issue here is that the mission runner cannot do anything about it. I dont think he's asking for exlusive rights, just that should someone steal his loot there should be some way in which he can defend it.
You can, if it's loot. You can't, if it's salvage, as it's not yours in the first place. Like asteroids and such. What you CAN do if you want salvage is to salvage it before anyone else. Rather easy, in fact.
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Barbelo Valentinian
Liberty Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/03/2008 00:31:29 If salvage isn't "yours" why is loot "yours" (i.e. flagged)?
The ship was owned by someone else (notionally, the NPCs you killed).
It has now been destroyed (by you).
So surely now EITHER nobody owns any of it - neither loot nor salvage - OR the killer has whatever passes for ownership rights in this "harsh" universe, over both loot and salvage 
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |

Vadimik
Misty Weave
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:36:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Vadimik on 23/03/2008 00:39:00
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
So surely now EITHER nobody owns any of it - neither loot nor salvage - OR the killer has whatever passes for ownership rights in this "harsh" universe, over both loot and salvage 
Loot was not "owned" for some time as well. Then there was a change to jetcan flagging, and loot cans were changed among with them.
Salvage, however, it another story, mostly cause you need a module and skills to "take" it, so you generate it the moment you salvage, not when you kill the ship.
Simply put, you don't get even rudimentary rights on things not yet spawned.
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Ramon Sohei
URSALIS LOGISTICS GROUP N O V A
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:18:00 -
[28]
So seriously, you don't see something wrong when you are in a room fighting and next to you is an "uninvited guest" salvaging/taking those wrecks?
I mean, I can see where if you left the room, its open business, but having these people pop up in your missions while you are in there and now happening on almost every mission its getting out of control. (there's many people competing on some systems)
The only recourse has been to warp out and back in to get the NPCs target the salvagers.
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:48:00 -
[29]
Quote: The only recourse has been to warp out and back in to get the NPCs target the salvagers.
that doesn't work. I just warp out, wait 3 mins or so, and warp back.
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Richard Butt
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.23 09:42:00 -
[30]
You know what, this is completely right.
And they need to do something about asteroid thieves as well. I mean, I was killing NPCs in a belt the other day, and someone came along and started mining the asteroids nearby me! Even though it was perfectly obvious that I intended to come back in a different ship in an hour or so's time and mine them myself later on. Honestly, just because it's unowned crap hanging around that I may or may not have had the skills and/or equipment to collect myself, people think they can help themselves just because they got there first?
What CCP need to do is make it so that whenever you warp to any location, everything within 100km is flagged as yours and nobody else is allowed to warp to that area. Problem solved, and we can all get back to being antisocial little carebears pretending we're playing a single-player game with a chat function.
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Avy Neruda
Red Delta Ops Dragonclaw Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.23 10:54:00 -
[31]
If you see a salvage theives shot the wrecks. It cost the ammo but the salvage thief will go away since he is gaining nothing.
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Sigul Siento
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.23 11:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Richard Butt You know what, this is completely right.
And they need to do something about asteroid thieves as well. I mean, I was killing NPCs in a belt the other day, and someone came along and started mining the asteroids nearby me! Even though it was perfectly obvious that I intended to come back in a different ship in an hour or so's time and mine them myself later on. Honestly, just because it's unowned crap hanging around that I may or may not have had the skills and/or equipment to collect myself, people think they can help themselves just because they got there first?
What CCP need to do is make it so that whenever you warp to any location, everything within 100km is flagged as yours and nobody else is allowed to warp to that area. Problem solved, and we can all get back to being antisocial little carebears pretending we're playing a single-player game with a chat function.

I wish more people would defend "their" wrecks though, the CNR which went after me the other day had a nice caldari navy BCU (true story).
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Marcus Griffin
Morning Star Operations
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:08:00 -
[33]
I dont want the current system totally overhauled, i know CCP want to create a harsh environment for us all but would i think we should have more control over missions assigned to us like maybe who can warp into the same mission site so maybe lock down acceleration gates to people who arnt in fleet? Or maybe eve just make it harder for the THIEVES to find us, I would just like a little more control.
I know a lot of you actually "salvage" as a profession and thats fine by me, even a bit of common courtesy, half the time i wont bother salvaging and at times if ive thought it worth while ill actually ask in local if someone wants the stuff. The bounty stealing is the thing that annoys me the most.
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Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:27:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Myshella Drake on 25/03/2008 01:28:39
Originally by: Marcus Griffin I dont want the current system totally overhauled, i know CCP want to create a harsh environment for us all but would i think we should have more control over missions assigned to us like maybe who can warp into the same mission site so maybe lock down acceleration gates to people who arnt in fleet? Or maybe eve just make it harder for the THIEVES to find us, I would just like a little more control.
What your saying is you want instanced combat. Never going to happen. How will this effect mission running in low/0.0 ?...There are alot of other MMOs out there where you have alot more 'control' over things. Thankfully eve is not one of them. ------------------
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Oldin Kinrod
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Marcus Griffin i think we should have more control over missions assigned to us like maybe who can warp into the same mission site so maybe lock down acceleration gates to people who arnt in fleet?
Congratulations. You now have instanced missions.
Quote: Or maybe eve just make it harder for the THIEVES to find us, I would just like a little more control.
It already is hard for them to find you IN A MISSION. The only exception to this is if you are running in a hub. There is a 1/100 chance of finding someone in deadspace against just some point in space. This can be made smaller if you happen to be using drones (as they will be looking for them too).
You have loads of ways to control this, but you are looking for one where you don't have to do anything.
Quote: I know a lot of you actually "salvage" as a profession and thats fine by me, even a bit of common courtesy, half the time i wont bother salvaging and at times if ive thought it worth while ill actually ask in local if someone wants the stuff. The bounty stealing is the thing that annoys me the most.
Apart from the bounty stealing (which I also thought was fixed in the last patch) most salvagers that I've heard of from others (never had the problem myself) is that they will ask - but they are not entitled to. Salvagers are like the homeless guy that goes through the bins looking for cans to sell - you walked away from your can and he is salvaging it. If you really REALLY want your salvage, then salvage as you go. People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions? |

Marcus Griffin
Morning Star Operations
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Oldin Kinrod Salvagers are like the homeless guy that goes through the bins looking for cans to sell - you walked away from your can and he is salvaging it. If you really REALLY want your salvage, then salvage as you go.
No they are more like vultures.
Btw i like your sig, ever though there may be a reason for so many forum posts about the same stuff....
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Dynast
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:00:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Dynast on 25/03/2008 02:59:56
Originally by: Ramon Sohei So seriously, you don't see something wrong when you are in a room fighting and next to you is an "uninvited guest" salvaging/taking those wrecks?
I mean, I can see where if you left the room, its open business, but having these people pop up in your missions while you are in there and now happening on almost every mission its getting out of control. (there's many people competing on some systems)
The only recourse has been to warp out and back in to get the NPCs target the salvagers.
Of course there's something wrong, they're taking stuff you'd otherwise get! If only you weren't in high sec basking in the stifling warmth of Concord's protection, you'd be able to do something about it, too! Oh well, that's the downside to living where you're mostly safe and protected -- everyone else is safe and protected too, so they're free to do as they please and **** you off with little expectation of retaliation.
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Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.25 03:22:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Myshella Drake on 25/03/2008 03:23:26
Originally by: Marcus Griffin
Originally by: Oldin Kinrod Salvagers are like the homeless guy that goes through the bins looking for cans to sell - you walked away from your can and he is salvaging it. If you really REALLY want your salvage, then salvage as you go.
No they are more like vultures.
Btw i like your sig, ever though there may be a reason for so many forum posts about the same stuff....
Cus people are too dumb to use an existing thread?  ------------------
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:07:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Of course there's something wrong, they're taking stuff you'd otherwise get! If only you weren't in high sec basking in the stifling warmth of Concord's protection, you'd be able to do something about it, too! Oh well, that's the downside to living where you're mostly safe and protected -- everyone else is safe and protected too, so they're free to do as they please and **** you off with little expectation of retaliation.
This
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Tomogara
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Oldin Kinrod
It already is hard for them to find you IN A MISSION. The only exception to this is if you are running in a hub. There is a 1/100 chance of finding someone in deadspace against just some point in space. This can be made smaller if you happen to be using drones (as they will be looking for them too).
It's actually not all that hard to find people in missions at all, if you're using scan probes. They have a long scan cycle but they have a very high power; I find many missionrunners while probing for exploration sites.
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Oldin Kinrod
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:55:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tomogara
It's actually not all that hard to find people in missions at all, if you're using scan probes. They have a long scan cycle but they have a very high power; I find many missionrunners while probing for exploration sites.
In comparision to finding someone in a SS it is harder - and the main reason it's so "easy" to find mission runners is because most slavagers do their business in a hub with over 100 people, a guaranteed hit. Try doing the same thing in a near empty system with a single mission runner and tell me the success rate.
Originally by: Marcus Griffin No they are more like vultures.
To you maybe - because you find value in the trash. The only reason that salvage and rigs are so expensive is because we, the players, made it so. If they were worth a fraction of what they are currently being sold for you wouldn't be complaining.
Originally by: Marcus Griffin Btw i like your sig, ever though there may be a reason for so many forum posts about the same stuff....
You're not the first to say that, and my response is the same. There wasn't anything wrong with the original flagging mechanics (anything not in your cargohold is free game) but enough people whined about it and now they whine about can flipping. Just because you can justify somthing that you think works doesn't make it a good idea.
People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions? |

Agif
UnderDog Industries Total Eclipse Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.25 10:06:00 -
[42]
2 arguments to this and thats :-
1) This game is a sandbox so stfu
2) CCP fix as mission running is what alot of you "paying customers" like to do and their is a game mechanic thats fubar'd again and needs re fixing.
Hmmm CCP cant you break something useful like the Nos and let us have that back for 6 - 12 weeks untill someone from iceland gets off their lazy arse and fix's it. Would be a nice easter egg but no wait you would fix that straight away so i guess the 10k ppl who soley run missions just isnt important to you.
I dont whine for the cause i just like poking sticks at CCP :) ---------------
EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08 |

Sigul Siento
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dynast Of course there's something wrong, they're taking stuff you'd otherwise get!
Utilizing specialised skills to harvest resources from wrecks you left behind, actually. Why did you leave it behind for others if you wanted it? I always assume that anyone who doesn't salvage as they go doesn't really want the salvage that much.
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Decard Sune
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:26:00 -
[44]
Easy solution, make mission rats target all ships in a mission equally, at least then salvagers will have to fit a tank if their are any npcs still alive.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.25 17:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Decard Sune Easy solution, make mission rats target all ships in a mission equally, at least then salvagers will have to fit a tank if their are any npcs still alive.
Easy, maybe. But not logical. Not only should NPCs forget about focus fire, but they should also devote as much of their attention to people who aren't even shooting them? Who are maybe even helping shoot the guy who has popped into their base and started killing everything in sight? 
It would also make missions even more comically easy to tank for two or more ships. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |

Galvanized
The Athiest Syndicate INT0XICATI0N
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Posted - 2008.03.25 18:47:00 -
[46]
shoot the wrecks after u loot them or before if u arn't going to...
Either that or move away from the mission hubs , i moved last week to a lovely quiet system...more LP'S more isk per mission...23 peeps in system...ahh bliss..
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