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Sajuukkar
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:17:00 -
[1]
So is it worth it buying a Bhaalgorn? Or even an Ashimmu?
Specifically, I am wondering what peopleÆs thoughts were on the Blood Raider faction ships after the NOS Nerf. I have searched through the forums and there does not seem to be much discussion of Blood Raiders recently. About a year ago Thor Xian posted that:
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A single Bhaalgorn can solo an entire PvP gang where no other ship can.
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Is this still true?
I think many Amarrian players became somewhat frustrated with them at some point and might have chosen to cross-train. For those who trained Gallente, no faction help for you. For those who trained Caldari, you won the Dev-roulette game and got the Sansha Mk2. And for those of us that trained Minmatar, we have Blood Raider ships, with bonused EW systems that are difficult to use.
Does the Bhaalgorn perform well enough in missions to justify the cost? Is it PvP worthy, or just better to buy a Machariel (if one must fly around in a faction BS... )?
It is a really nice looking ship, but I just worry that it would be expensive hangar decoration. If you do have a fitting that you are willing to share for either PvP or PvE that is post-NOS nerf, please feel free to.
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Meiyang Lee
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 21/03/2008 19:57:43
In PvE you can use NOS to fuel your tank, so that's a handy bonus. Providing you switch targets regularly. (diminishing returns after a few minutes sucking a single target)
The web-bonus allows you to snare frigs and other smaller ships so you can easily hit them with your BS guns. It does however have chronic CPU and Grid issues, as do most of the blood raider ships. (i own an Ashimmu, its an awesome ship, but damn is it hard to fit well without going all faction)
So while it can certainly work, its not easy to pull it off.
As for PvP, considering the ships cost, you might want to consider a cheaper alternatives that's probably easier to fit aswell.
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Sajuukkar
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:48:00 -
[3]
I own one as well, and it does seem very difficult to fit, especially concerning the powergrid. Your points about the Bhaalgorn are good, and much appreciated.
I bet it would fit a pretty nice tank (as per some of the other threads for fitting it), but it seems like its PvP days are over, especially given its cost.
I suppose projectiles would be the way to go fitting the gank to leave the most cap for tanking. Still feels like a bit of a mismatch to use this ship in missions.
Thanks.
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Deathhawk
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Deathhawk on 21/03/2008 21:52:41
 Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 21/03/2008 19:57:43 stuff
(i own an Ashimmu, its an awesome ship, but damn is it hard to fit well without going all faction)
Quote:
fancy sharing your setup? used to own one and would rethink ac new one if i could get a new setup :)
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
MAFIA Website
I ROCK - DH
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Meiyang Lee
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:18:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 21/03/2008 22:36:55
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 21/03/2008 22:26:44
Originally by: Deathhawk
Edited by: Deathhawk on 21/03/2008 21:52:41
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 21/03/2008 19:57:43
(i own an Ashimmu, its an awesome ship, but damn is it hard to fit well without going all faction)
fancy sharing your setup? used to own one and would rethink ac new one if i could get a new setup :)
Sure, keep in mind though that i only use her for missioning as i'm not rich enough to use a ship like this in PvP.
Ashimmu
With the EM-resistance change that value goes down to 75,06% btw so it will tank slightly less.
It'll run out of cap in 3 minutes without something to NOS, so getting to a target is important. The tank eats cap and with the armor mods you're not all that quick. (they were on the ship when i bought her, but they have their uses)
My laser skills leave a little to be desired, but it manages quite well, mostly level 2 and 3 missions. For when i want something different from level 4s in my Domi.
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Cae'phon
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:31:00 -
[6]
Sorry this is a bit off topic, but your layout for your ship where did you get that application, i would like to get my hands on something like that.
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Meiyang Lee
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cae'phon
Sorry this is a bit off topic, but your layout for your ship where did you get that application, i would like to get my hands on something like that.
EFT is your friend
Thanks go to Gripen for making the program 
Its not entirely updated to Trinity 1.1 yet, although the changed chips are present in the bottom category in the ship browser.
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Cae'phon
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:36:00 -
[8]
Thanks to you and everyone who made this possible
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chrisss0r
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Posted - 2008.03.21 23:02:00 -
[9]
with today's ecm flying around there is no single ship that is even close to dealing with a whole gang :P
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Sajuukkar
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Posted - 2008.03.21 23:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sajuukkar on 21/03/2008 23:24:04
Originally by: chrisss0r
with today's ecm flying around there is no single ship that is even close to dealing with a whole gang :P
Excellent point.
I thought, since it came up, I would share my missioning setup. I approach it from the Minnie side as opposed to the Amarr side. It is very light on DPS and relies on getting into closer range. With only an AB II (deadspace) it takes a while to get in range. A faction web helps (Dark Blood, naturally) but a tech II webbie fits.
This ship has decent resists (swap out the EANM's for rat hardeners) and fits with AWU 4.
Highs:
2x Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
4x 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Mids:
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Cap Recharger II
Lows:
Medium Armor Repairer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Rigs :
Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Anti-Thermic Pump I
Anti-Explosive Pump I
3281 armor, E/T/K/Ex=79/73/69/67
Not great in either the tank or DPS department, and takes a while to do lvl 3's. But you look good doing them. 
8.9 grid and 0.5 cpu left.
P.S. Love your Ashimmu sig...
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.22 00:03:00 -
[11]
I was actually thinking about these ships the other day and was wondering what could be done about them.
For me the perfect fix would be to overall have the web range bonus increase as the size of the ship increases (maybe 10% for frig, 17.5% for cruiser and 25% for BS).
Also I would do these things to the individual ships
Cruor - Give it an extra turret and med (probably take the slot from the high slots).
Ashimmu - Again I think it could do with an extra med probably from the high slots again.
Bhaalgorn - I've never had the chance to fly one of these but slot wise it looks fine. An increase to the web bonus as said above would be nice.
Beyond that I don't know but that's just what sprung to mind.
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Sajuukkar
Idle Miners
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Posted - 2008.03.22 05:10:00 -
[12]
I have been thinking about this too. You might have noticed that the topic of this thread included ôfactional warfare.ö I was going to leave this out and put it into the development thread maybe, but since you brought it upà
I was very interested (flying Amarrian BSÆs as well as Minmatar ones) in the recent Apoc boost. I was dismayed to find out that it was not being extended to the Navy Apoc given ôupcoming changes in faction ships that will be introduced with factional warfare.ö
My thoughts for Blood Raiders Factional Warfare LovinÆ: I agree that these ships, especially given their cost and fitting, need more range. What I was hoping for was a combination of the bonuses on the Amarrian and Minmatar recons. NOSÆs were given short range because of their power and effectiveness. That effectiveness by and large has been removed, and so I think it is fair to give the NOS/Neuts some range bonus on the ships that are designed to use them.
Would the ships become uberpwnmobles with these Web/NOS range bonuses. Well, no. The fitting on these ships is awful: bad slots on the Curor, too little grid on the Ashimmu, and too little CPU on the Bhaalgorn with no damage bonus. The use of these ships would also, naturally, be limited by their cost. I donno about adjusting the slot layouts on any of the ships...maybe the Curor could be adjusted...
Give each of them a 20% per level range and drain bonus to NOS (for Amarrian BS level) and a 20% per level bonus to web range (per Minmatar BS level).
Theoretical ideas aside, anyone got a Bhaalgorn build they like? EFT Warriors want to take up a shot at an ôupdatedö Bhaalgorn setup?
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Meiyang Lee
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 14:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 22/03/2008 14:51:58
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 22/03/2008 14:49:01
All Blood Raider ships could certainly use a boost in CPU/Grid to be usable with T2 modules, as for changing the ships bonusses, giving it a range bonus to its NOS/Neuts and boosting the Web-bonus to be in line with that would be awesome, but i'm not 100% sure if that wouldn't make them overpowered in a way.
Doing that would essentially create a Curse/Huggin hybrid which would be quite lethal to pretty much anything, perhaps too lethal solo, especially on battleship level.
As for an "up-to-date" bhaalgorn setup, this is something i EFTed up. Again, for PvE. The faction resist mods aren't to expensive, which is why i used them to save CPU for the other mods. I based this off how i use my Ashimmu and essentially just scaled it up a bit to tackle L4 missions.
[Bhaalgorn]
[Lows]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Heat Sink II
[Mids]
100MN Afterburner II
Dark Blood Stasis Webifier
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
[Highs]
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
[Rigs]
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
[Drones]
Hammerhead II x5
Not cap-stable while running everything, even when NOSing. (Cap lasts for 18m42s with my skills)
Easily cap-stable with AB off though.
353 DPS with Large Energy Turret 4 using Gamma L (optimal more or less equal to Web/NOS range).
Webber extends to 19.6k with Minmatar BS 4.
EM/Therm/Kin/Exp
76.4/62.7/77.3/76.2
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TimMc
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.03.22 15:15:00 -
[14]
Woah whats going on?
There hasn't been an offensive remark or troll in this thread so far. Common guys this is ment to be Eve-O, not happy helpful forums. 
Slightly off topic, but are there any plans to make a faction ship that uses Amarr-Gallente or Minmatar-Caldari skills?
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Meiyang Lee
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 15:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: TimMc
Woah whats going on?
There hasn't been an offensive remark or troll in this thread so far. Common guys this is ment to be Eve-O, not happy helpful forums.
Slightly off topic, but are there any plans to make a faction ship that uses Amarr-Gallente or Minmatar-Caldari skills?
Guess this thread isn't controversial enough for flames. 
As for those ships you mentioned, it would be interesting to see them, but i'm not sure if there are pirate factions available to fill those slots. I'd really love a Amarr/Gallente combo faction ship line though, as that's where most of my skillpoints are. Minmatar/Caldari would be interesting aswell, ACs/Missiles and shield-tank. But again, which pirate faction fits that description best.
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Sajuukkar
Idle Miners
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Posted - 2008.03.22 15:58:00 -
[16]
Good points about the Huginn/Curse hybrid at the BS level. It might be overpowered. I just feel that these ships are fragile, jammable, and offensively impotent (DPS-wise) given their cost.
The Bhaalgorn fit is great. When I get one, I was thinking about taking a bit more advantage of the large base armor in the rigging department. Also, I tried fitting projectiles to save cap for tank, and based on the result, I think that is a bad idea.
Highs:
2x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I (or faction)
6x 1200mm Artillery Cannon II w/ Phased Plasma
Mids:
100MN Afterburner II
3x Cap Recharger II (or faction)
Stasis Webifier II (or faction)
Lows:
Large Armor Repairer II ( or faction/COSMOS to save on grid)
Large Armor Repairer II
Amarr Navy Armor Explosive Hardener (Meiyang Lee is right, faction only to save CPU)
Amarr Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Gyrostabilizer II
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane (or similar faction/deadspace)
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Rigs :
2x Trimark Armor Pump I
Ancillary Current Router I
Drones:
Hammerhead IIs
10434 shield, 13.91/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/19/39/59
17357 armor, E/T/K/Ex=77/63/78/76
Overall, I think this fit fails.
-- In order to fit the artillery, I need to throw a fitting rig on it.
-- The DPS is really quite terrible, as is the case with unbonused projectiles anyway (especially artillery).
-- The projectiles allow changing damage types, but the extra DPS from lasers (including the laser cap use reduction) makes them a better fitting option based on the numbers.
I think I will try the fit a couple of posts above…thanks.
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Sajuukkar
Idle Miners
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Posted - 2008.03.22 16:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: TimMc
Slightly off topic, but are there any plans to make a faction ship that uses Amarr-Gallente or Minmatar-Caldari skills?
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
I'm not sure if there are pirate factions available to fill those slots.
It would be great so see some different factions have ships that use mixed skillsets we have not seen yet, especially given that several “minor” factions have had modules and implants given to them. For example, perhaps Sisters of Eve or something could use Amarr-Gallente skills because they both do charity work (though for different reasons  ).
It would be funny to see a silver/gold Thorax. Or a pink Armageddon.
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Meiyang Lee
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 16:45:00 -
[18]
The Gold/Silver thorax idea sounds very nice good way to combine the aesthetic of 2 races, the pink Armageddon though You'd bump the thorax (and phobos more specifically) from the "most phalic ship in EVE" spot in a heartbeat with one of those. That aside, it is a nice concept
Personally, i was thinking more of a sort of mega tank vessel by combining the Amarr passive resistance bonus with the Gallente active one. (a ship with 5% resist/level and 7.5% repair amount per level, yes please ) Ok, it would suffer DPS issues (although give it a role based laser cap-reduction and a good sized dronebay and DPS wouldn't be an issue either.) But it would also need a drawback to compensate for its insane tank, or in PvP it would become the ultimate baitboat.
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