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Heavyn Pegasus Reborn Research Corp 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.22 13:11:00 - [61] While I neither support nor care what the Goons do, I do however find it very VERY interesting that the same people saying that "You shouldnt be playing the game semi-afk" (a phrase I'm about sick of, alone with the 'safer'comment) Are the same ones that a few months ago were crying so loud about "Theres absolutely no rules stating we cant go into an occupied system and sit AFK cloaked for days on end disrupting operations" really seems two sided...but i forget, some peoples rules change whenever it suits them H
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.22 13:15:00 - [62] Originally by: Drachtul Tun'Dull Originally by: El'Niaga Goonswarm will keep it up until CCP is forced to change the rules like they did with Privateers and wardec costs. It might take a few more months. However if your interested i've noticed a number of ex goonswarm members in exhumers in Finanar in Metropolis. Just be careful because several goons hang out in Mateber and Earwik as well. I've noticed that a lot of miners are getting to scared to mine. Have any of you PVP types tried mining. It is at times a very boring affair. Especially Ice Mining. There is such a long time between cycles that it becomes very boring. This causes miners attentions to drift. It is hard to remain vigilant in such a circumstance and there is really no way to stop a determined suicide attack. Yeah, I know. I have an industrialist training up and a pvper training up and there is nothing worse than mining ice in my Retriever. In fact, I figured out that I make more money using my industrialist to haul and boost for my pvper mining in his Rokh than using each to mine separately in different ops simultaneously. However, IF "a lot of miners are getting scared to mine" then that means nothing but good for those of us who are NOT scared to mine. There are corps out there looking for miners with the ability and the will to protect them, in lowsec, in deep space. There's a lot of belts that are almost untouched, and despite the protestations I see on this forum not every deepspace or lowsec organization requires "professional" players who are on all day long every day. In an era of capital ships, if carebears are afraid to undock, those corporations willing to cater to the needs of carebears, protect and nurture them on their own terms will prosper. And if there aren't enough of those, then deep space alliances may end up having to adapt to a perpetual mineral shortage and use more support and fewer caps in everyday engagements. You, sir, are 100% correct. Making empire unsafe for "afk" (and we all know what that euphemism really means) will do nothing but good for the game and the... non-"afk" players. People are complaining that the suiciders take no risks because insurance pays for the ship. This is only the case because ships are much cheaper than they used to be (in fact ships would be even cheaper without the artificial price floor set by insurance). Why are ships so cheap? Because minerals are cheap. Why are minerals so cheap...? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.22 13:15:00 - [63] Originally by: Heavyn While I neither support nor care what the Goons do, I do however find it very VERY interesting that the same people saying that "You shouldnt be playing the game semi-afk" (a phrase I'm about sick of, alone with the 'safer'comment) Are the same ones that a few months ago were crying so loud about "Theres absolutely no rules stating we cant go into an occupied system and sit AFK cloaked for days on end disrupting operations" really seems two sided...but i forget, some peoples rules change whenever it suits them H If miners want to fit cloaks to their hulks then I'm fine with that. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.22 13:24:00 - [64] bill 1 == Celot BTW
Cailais VITOC	Posted - 2008.03.22 13:36:00 - [65] Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy bill 1 == Celot BTW I concur. Its just goon 'propaganda' - post a flame bait with an alt and see what reaction you get. yawn C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Tammarr	Posted - 2008.03.22 13:47:00 - [66] Its quite interesting that the goons are doing so much to help eve with basic things that needs fixing. Suicide gankage = no loss for the suicider, no worries, GS is on the problem suiciding everything without loss to show ccp there is a problem with insurance payout from concord. Go go GS!
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.22 14:00:00 - [67] Originally by: Tammarr Its quite interesting that the goons are doing so much to help eve with basic things that needs fixing. Suicide gankage = no loss for the suicider, no worries, GS is on the problem suiciding everything without loss to show ccp there is a problem with insurance payout from concord. Go go GS! Correct. Because of Jihadswarm, mineral prices will rise, and ganking will become less viable. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Bo Bojangles Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.22 14:10:00 - [68] The only thing wrong is that there's nothing you can do to prevent the gank from happening without being reprised upon. This makes you defenseless in your 'safe' space. This IS why Empire sucks, and alone provides a reason for you to join a no-sec Alliance and get away from broken Concord.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.03.22 14:47:00 - [69] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy bill 1 == Celot BTW I concur. Its just goon 'propaganda' - post a flame bait with an alt and see what reaction you get. yawn C. The real question: how many trolling goons tried to troll the trolling goon? Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
She Storm Founder's of the Dominion The Dominion Empire	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:23:00 - [70] There is NO safe space period
Serious Rikk Species 5618 Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:30:00 - [71] Originally by: Bo Bojangles This IS why Empire sucks, and alone provides a reason for you to join a no-sec Alliance and get away from broken Concord. Concord is not broken though is it? You shoot someone in empire, concord turn up and use big guns on you. Isn't that what they are supposed to do, or are there other concord features I am unaware of? -- Noble Scumbag
wrexiful Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:31:00 - [72] If Celot is disrupting your gaming fun,switch to a PVP setup hang out in the systems he ganks in and pod him not like it's hard to kill goons.
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Mavericks	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:40:00 - [73] Originally by: Bakhal Yttrites I think a market solution is the best option for now. When trit hits 5 ISK per, those battleships and BC's are going to be more dear to their owners. And if that doesn't happen, then obviously this ISN'T hurting the economy and is not as widespread as the victims (who are understandably upset) would like to think. Trit can't rise above 3.7 isk per unit because of shuttles. ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:44:00 - [74] I find watching Celot felate himself in this thread to be utterly revolting yet strangely compelling. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.22 15:49:00 - [75] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Originally by: Bakhal Yttrites I think a market solution is the best option for now. When trit hits 5 ISK per, those battleships and BC's are going to be more dear to their owners. And if that doesn't happen, then obviously this ISN'T hurting the economy and is not as widespread as the victims (who are understandably upset) would like to think. Trit can't rise above 3.7 isk per unit because of shuttles. CCP have removed market caps like that before, and I think we can rely on them to do it again. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Boomershoot Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.03.22 16:10:00 - [76] Edited by: Boomershoot on 22/03/2008 16:11:35 double the price of shuttles = no big deal, but no mass-reprocess for trit i hope no-one thought that trit will be capped forever at 3.6/unit btw, 5/10, too obvious troll, no original content, obvious alt try harder next time EDIT: lol grammar __________________________________________________ Not A Signature. Will be Replaced by A Signature Soon(tm)
bill 1 University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.22 20:58:00 - [77] Originally by: wrexiful If Celot is disrupting your gaming fun,switch to a PVP setup hang out in the systems he ganks in and pod him not like it's hard to kill goons. This, if there truly is no safe space then I'll bring the fight to him. Judging by everyones reactions that's the proper eve way.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.22 21:03:00 - [78] Originally by: El'Niaga I've noticed that a lot of miners are getting to scared to mine. Have any of you PVP types tried mining. It is at times a very boring affair. Especially Ice Mining. There is such a long time between cycles that it becomes very boring. This causes miners attentions to drift. It is hard to remain vigilant in such a circumstance and there is really no way to stop a determined suicide attack. I think you forgot something important. All 0.0 alliances depend on ice mining, all of them have ice miners, and almost all of an 0.0 alliance's ice miners also PvP. Take me for example. I'm a miner and a PvPer. I understand how boring it can get to mine, but I take steps to counter the boredom and guarantee enough safety while mining. AFK high-sec miners don't bother taking these steps, and so they're suicided. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Reem Fairchild Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.22 21:12:00 - [79] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 22/03/2008 21:14:25 Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Daylen Drazzi Allahu Akhbar!! Fixed.....can't even get your own warcry right, silly goon Huge !!! First of all, last I checked, Arabic doesn't use these letters at all. When you write Arabic words in roman letters like this, you write approximately as it is pronounced. There is no correct spelling. Secondly, anyone who knows Arabic, at all, knows that "Ackbar" is the more correct spelling. See, even though westerners insist on pronounsing the "kh" in transcribed Arabic words as a 'k' sound, pretty much all of the words in Arabic that tend to be written with a "kh" in the west are actually pronounced like the "ch" in "Bach" in Arabic. For example, the last name Khalil. However, "Ackbar" ("greater") is pronounced with a 'k' sound. (I'm of middle eastern christian background, and Arabic is my first language.)
Vymorna Grom Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.03.22 21:16:00 - [80] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 22/03/2008 21:14:25 Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Daylen Drazzi Allahu Akhbar!! Fixed.....can't even get your own warcry right, silly goon Huge !!! First of all, last I checked, Arabic doesn't use these letters at all. When you write Arabic words in roman letters like this, you write approximately as it is pronounced. There is no correct spelling. Secondly, anyone who knows Arabic, at all, knows that "Ackbar" is the more correct spelling. See, even though westerners insist on pronounsing the "kh" in transcribed Arabic words as a 'k' sound, pretty much all of the words in Arabic that tend to be written with a "kh" in the west are actually pronounced like the "ch" in "Bach" in Arabic. For example, the last name Khalil. However, "Ackbar" ("greater") is pronounced with a 'k' sound. (I'm of middle eastern christian background, and Arabic is my first language.) I actually learned something today. ---------------------------------- Originally by: Ralara Because you touch yourself at night. (dear god, that took 9 logins to post)
El'Niaga Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.22 22:35:00 - [81] You guys will never force the miners to 0.0. There simply is not the infrastructure to support them in 0.0. All you will do is drive people from the game. Which means eventually CCP will stop your methods just like they did Privateers. If your so keen on folks getting to 0.0 then this is the worst possible method. You need to become builders. Use your large size to build the infrastructure that is needed to maintain a moderate to large population in 0.0. Build outposts in every system, allow anyone to dock. It is the only way you'll ever see more than light numbers in 0.0. There is no reason for the average miner to go there. The risk outweighs the reward. Just like the Reward outweighs the risk when Goonswarm just goes to Empire to gank miners. They have 0 risk since insurance repays everything. CCP should stop paying out insurance while you are criminally flagged. This would introduce a more appropriate risk vs. reward ratio than the current system. You could still do suicide ganks, you just couldn't do it for free. In the end you'll see retention of new players fall. You'll see others set long skill trains and go on hiatus, and in the end you'll only hurt the PVPers who are the primary consumers of the goods made by the miners/industrilist. After all they can build their own stuff and may just hold onto it. If you raise mineral prices you will raise the price of everything. Do you really want a Rifter that costs 500k or 1 million or more? How about saw a Typhoon thats 300 million or more? Because new people will find it very hard to compete in such an environment. That means they get frustrated and leave. Between low retention of new people and lost veterans the games population will drop and will thus lead to less revenue for CCP. S
Derul Mant Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2008.03.22 22:42:00 - [82] Edited by: Derul Mant on 22/03/2008 22:42:31 NVM
Ong The Space BorderLine Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.03.22 22:52:00 - [83] All I have heard over the last few months from miners is that there is no isk in mining anymore as the prices are to low, so surely you miners should be happy, this will increase prices and so solve the problem you have all been whining about. And im sorry but can you not see that this solves the chinese isk farmer problem as well? Good job i say, the rest of us non-miners have to venture into lowsec/0.0 so you should also. I have lost count of the amount of belts Ive been to in high sec on a Sunday evening and the whole belt has been mined. Maybe if ccp just made high sec belts have so little ore that the miners have to venture to low/0.0 then the whole problem would go away.
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.22 23:24:00 - [84] Originally by: Ong All I have heard over the last few months from miners is that there is no isk in mining anymore as the prices are to low, so surely you miners should be happy, this will increase prices and so solve the problem you have all been whining about. And im sorry but can you not see that this solves the chinese isk farmer problem as well? Good job i say, the rest of us non-miners have to venture into lowsec/0.0 so you should also. I have lost count of the amount of belts Ive been to in high sec on a Sunday evening and the whole belt has been mined. Maybe if ccp just made high sec belts have so little ore that the miners have to venture to low/0.0 then the whole problem would go away. Wrong on every count. Impressive! ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.22 23:48:00 - [85] Edited by: Kerfira on 22/03/2008 23:50:36 Originally by: El'Niaga Build outposts in every system, allow anyone to dock. It is the only way you'll ever see more than light numbers in 0.0. That'll not help either. 0.0 is NOT capable of sustaining any reasonable amount of player numbers. A typical 0.0 system of the better type (low true-sec level, which are pretty far in-between), can support 1 (maybe 2) ratters, maybe an explorer once per day, and a number of miners. This doesn't make it viable to create an outpost to service just one system given the cost in POS fuel to keep it. The reason empire (and NPC 0.0) can support high numbers of players per system is simple. Agents! Until agents appear in player-controlled 0.0, it can't support a large population. Also, nobody in their right mind mines pos/cap fuel or low-end minerals in 0.0! It's far too easy to import it from empire where macro-miners mine it for you (at cheap prices even).... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.22 23:53:00 - [86] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy bill 1 == Celot BTW I concur. Its just goon 'propaganda' - post a flame bait with an alt and see what reaction you get. yawn C. The real question: how many trolling goons tried to troll the trolling goon? there was no trying involved this was obvously Celot and he's been upset about not getting his own thread :colbert:. Anyways this are always fun threads so its nice to see one every couple days.
Bohoba dragons nest imPure.	Posted - 2008.03.23 00:06:00 - [87] Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy bill 1 == Celot BTW Don't supprise me lol I love the smell of goonspodpie after a hard day on the ice :) Windows VistaÖ Ultimate x64-based PC Gigabyte X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 Memory 4,093.69 MB 2X Crossfire ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB
Belgari0n Senate and People of Rome imPure.	Posted - 2008.03.23 00:49:00 - [88] Edited by: Belgari0n on 23/03/2008 00:50:28 I think it's funny that everyone's getting worked up about this stuff. Why did you go afk in the first place? you don't go afk in an fps, you'll get the snot beat out of you. Sure this is a game, but no space is actually safe. Me and my buddies were doing a roam a couple days ago, we found heaven when it came to autopilot isk farmers. If Goons knew about it, they wouldn't be griefing anyone. But I'm keeping it too myself, too much fun to be held there. ^__^ Edit: No, this game is not an fps, but, it is similar in game play mildly...
Ong The Space BorderLine Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.03.23 02:31:00 - [89] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Ong All I have heard over the last few months from miners is that there is no isk in mining anymore as the prices are to low, so surely you miners should be happy, this will increase prices and so solve the problem you have all been whining about. And im sorry but can you not see that this solves the chinese isk farmer problem as well? Good job i say, the rest of us non-miners have to venture into lowsec/0.0 so you should also. I have lost count of the amount of belts Ive been to in high sec on a Sunday evening and the whole belt has been mined. Maybe if ccp just made high sec belts have so little ore that the miners have to venture to low/0.0 then the whole problem would go away. Wrong on every count. Impressive! How so? And unless your an alt your a month old so I doubt you have a proper understanding of the game anyway, oh and maybe adding to the discussion would be an idea rather then flaming :S
Grendelsbane Noir.	Posted - 2008.03.23 02:38:00 - [90] Originally by: bill 1 Seriously! well, i was semi-afk mining in what's supposed to be "safe" space, and these goons are horrible. Well not all goons but this one especially, CELOT. god just go away, stop trying to kill my hulk in hi-security space. I mean why is this even possible!? what is this game. I happen to like the goon cause and all but mining in ardene has just become IMPOSSIBLE. Why is any player ship able to kill my hulk!? Or not just me either but I've seen Celot kill countless people. It's got to be a hack or something. I demand this guy be banned or stoppped or something! JEEZ. It is not supposed to be "safe" space, it is supposed to be "safeER" space. If you want it to stop, get off your butt and DO SOMETHING BESIDES CLOGGING OUR FORUMS WITH YOUR WHINING. Until the hisec miners actually organize and attempt to fight back, I really could care less what you want.

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