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Ankh
Angel Constellation
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Posted - 2008.03.24 09:50:00 -
[1]
OK so I've read many of the forum posts, some useful stuff in there but views seem split on whether the CNR or Golem is best... it seems to come down to personal peference.
 So can I take a straw poll please - if you have both in your hangar and are doing a L4 mission solo - which do you prefer to fly?
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Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:03:00 -
[2]
I like the CNR, not sure on numbers but I say CNR is best.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 24/03/2008 10:10:26
I have both and prefer the Golem. The Golem is the better Ship if you have the money and skills. Except this the CNR has no Advantages.
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AKULA UrQuan
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:10:00 -
[4]
Golem. It goes faster and useing faction ammo won't make you poor.
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Arakidias
Murky Inc.
G Thanks Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:10:00 -
[5]
Golem has better alpha but slightly lower DPS. Golem has better real dps vs. smaller targets, using it's bonuses to one volley anything lower than battleships. And it can still field a permatank while doing so.
CNR kills battleships faster.
Golem can loot most of the wrecks while it's killing and even salvage many of them. I salvage just battleship wrecks with it as they yield the most salvage anyway. If you use just a single character and loot/salvage then it speeds up the mission time a lot.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:18:00 -
[6]
A Friend of mine made this for another Forumthread, maybe its helpfull:
Full skilled Char, Ships with similar Items fitted, DPS=Raw incl. Reloadtime:
DPS: CNR>Golem
8,2% more DPS with Standardfittings
Volleydamage: Golem>CNR
18% more Volleydamage with Standardfittings
DPS with Torps and TP on Targets with smaller Sig(Frigs, Cruiser, BCs and some BSs): Golem>CNR
Golem has minimal more DPS(< 1%)
Volleydamage with Torps and TP on Targets with smaller Sig(Frigs, Cruiser, BCs and some BSs) : Golem>CNR
28% more Volleydamage
Killspeed with Cruise Missiles: CNR=Golem
Killspeed with Torpedos: Golem>CNR
Max Torpedorange(Javelin): CNR>Golem
8% higher Torprange
Tank: Golem>CNR
33% more tankable DPS with 7th Slot free, 70-80% more tankable DPS with an additional Tankitem in the free Slot
Speed: Golem>CNR
8,5% faster
Cargo: Golem>CNR
85% more Space
Lockingrange: Golem>CNR
20% higher Lockingrange
Lockingspeed: CNR>Golem
14% less Lockingtime
Lockable Targets: Golem>CNR
3 more Targets
Cap: Golem>CNR
33% more cap/s
Free Grid for Fitting with Weapons equipped(T2-Siege for this example): Golem>CNR
Golem - 1508Grid
CNR - 295Grid
Free CPU for Fitting with Weapons equipped(T2-Siege for this example): Golem>CNR
Golem - 629CPU
CNR - 438CPU
Skills: CNR>Golem
CNR - Caldari Battleship 1, Spaceship Command 4, Caldari Cruiser 4, Caldari Frigate 4
Golem - Marauders 1, Caldari Battleship 5, Spaceship Command 5, Energy Grid Upgrades 5, Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5, Weapon Upgrades 5, Caldari Cruiser 4, Caldari Frigate 4, Engineering 2, Gunnery 2, Science 1
Costs without Fitting: CNR>Golem
about 200m cheaper
Other Benefits: Golem>CNR
40km Tractorrange(Boni), less Ammoneeds(4Launcher), Explovelocity Bonus for Torpusers
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Talio ZomB
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:21:00 -
[7]
CNR for missions like Damsel in distress, close range rat rayp
But I use the Golem for almost everything else
both are torp fitted
cnr 45km CN torps (1270+dps), 67km Javs (930+dps)
golem 42.2km CN torps (1111+dps), 63.3km Javs (810+dps)
I am at work so these figures are approx and from memory, also based of my skills and hardwiring so work your own numbers)
The golem has 3 40km tractors and 100mn ab so its easier to use on more missions as the cnr cant fit the 100mn AB. I do fit 4 cn BCS (I know that the 4th adds only 3% dps but thats how much of a damage junkie I am)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:24:00 -
[8]
CNR PROS :
* relatively cheap hull
* higher DPS
* 3 rig slots (great for extra torpedo range)
CNR CONS :
* 350 calibration points
* lower base cap recharge (even with rigs it's still lower)
* expensive to fit (for "perma-run tank", that is ; gank-tank can compensate)
GOLEM PROS :
* higher alpha
* less than half ammo usage per time unit, half ammo usage per damage dealt
* can loot and salvage while running the mission
* cheap to fit a proper tank
* higher base cap recharge
GOLEM CONS :
* expensive hull
* only 2 rig slots
Those "hyperactive" that never really bother with 100% loot and salvage, and run missions in a relatively lag-free area, they will find the CNR to be their dream ship.
Those that are "ISK conscious" and normally loot/salvage everything, care about the ISK cost of fitings, and enjoy less of a lag-free mission area, they will probably prefer the Golem.
So... yeah... a matter of preference, really.
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Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.24 11:20:00 -
[9]
I have both (and I run dual accounts in missions). For mission completion I prefer pair of CNR's and use one Golem as dedicated looting ship (expanders, salvage rigs, MWD, etc).
However your initial statement that it's up personal preference is correct one. Whatever works best for you. Superiority of either one is dependant how you usually run your missions.
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.03.24 11:39:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Carniflex
I have both (and I run dual accounts in missions). For mission completion I prefer pair of CNR's and use one Golem as dedicated looting ship (expanders, salvage rigs, MWD, etc).
However your initial statement that it's up personal preference is correct one. Whatever works best for you. Superiority of either one is dependant how you usually run your missions.
I use a Catalyst for looting... I guess the joke is on me 
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Andrue
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:05:00 -
[11]
The Golem makes a great salvaging ship. I cleaned up after Pirate Invasion this morning in less than fifteen minutes. No idea what it's like in combat, though - what a funny idea 
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(Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:34:00 -
[12]
Tbh the only thing this thread is saying to me is that the golem is not worth the isk/skilltime atm, so i'm hoping more people will start to complain and ccp boosts them a lil...
personally i would be happy with a lil more cpu and mebbe a lil more base resists, cuz the damage is allready pretty good.
To me it's pretty bad that a ship with such a huge skilltree and pricetag is performing almost the same as it's Navy variant, now i know it's not meant to be a soloomgwtfpwnmobile but cmon!!! it should atleast outperform all T1 variants impo.
What i'm wondering is if the same counts for the other marauders? how do those stand vs their Navy counterparts?
_______________________________________________________
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:53:00 -
[13]
This is a very similar argument to Nightmare/Paladin discussion, and amounts to pretty much the same thing: it's down to personal preference, but the tractor bonus and fitting requirements make things easier.
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"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
This is a very similar argument to Nightmare/Paladin discussion, and amounts to pretty much the same thing: it's down to personal preference, but the tractor bonus and fitting requirements make things easier.
Not really. If you have armour tanking skills, use paladin. If you have shield tanking, use Nightmare. If you have both, nightmare is usually more relevent for most mission runners (though tractor/salvage pilots might prefer paladin).
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Billion Isk Mission |
Derek Sigres
Eternal Guardians Corp.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 13:39:00 -
[15]
I would say that given the fact that the CNR can be found for 350mil these days, any arguable advantage of the Golem is nullified. The differences after all are so incredibly vague when it comes to PvE (CNR has more DPS and a perfectly adequate tank, Golem does the cleanup better - I can't even begin to qunatify those vaguaries into time improvements on the average level 4 mission) that the difference in price is all it would take to convince me to go with the CNR. Afterall, I could spend the extra 500+ million ISK on freakin' sweet fittings for the CNR and change arguably better into clearly better.
If I had both of them in my hanger I'd take the Golem though - that way when I fall asleep doing missions I'm less likely to die. If I had to pick one to own it would be (and in fact WAS) the CNR.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.03.24 15:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 24/03/2008 15:31:16
Originally by: Derek Sigres
If I had both of them in my hanger I'd take the Golem though - that way when I fall asleep doing missions I'm less likely to die.
And only this was exactly the Question, not if the Golem is it worth to pay 200m more(Jitaprices today).
Originally by: Ankh
if you have both in your hangar and are doing a L4 mission solo - which do you prefer to fly?
Everyone knows that the Golem is more expensively and needs more Skills. I Think many of the Posters don't tested the Golem by themselves. Buy it, fly 50 Missions with it and compare Killtimes, Money made and flystyle with the CNRs. Only then you can say if it is better than the CNR or not. Anything else are only presumptions.
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Ankh
Angel Constellation
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Posted - 2008.03.25 21:47:00 -
[17]
Thanks guys, great responses. You've convinced me to try the Golem and see if the convenience of tractor range and extra cargo is worth the extra cost - I usually rat 'n loot with the CNR and that seems to be the main benefit. Only six days to Advanced Weapons Upgrade lvl 5 now...
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Midastouch
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.26 03:16:00 -
[18]
Now dont quote me because I have never built anything but the likelyhood of the Golem's price meeting the CNR is grand. In which case would remove one of the biggest CONS for the Golem. Golem is just overpriced atm stick with CNR until price/CCP Boost <--- Possibly? Comes?
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ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2008.03.26 04:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Midastouch
Now dont quote me because I have never built anything but the likelyhood of the Golem's price meeting the CNR is grand. In which case would remove one of the biggest CONS for the Golem. Golem is just overpriced atm stick with CNR until price/CCP Boost <--- Possibly? Comes?
If you are faction fitting them (at least as far as launchers go) the Golem closes the cap with the CNR but a good deal since you only need 4 launchers on the Golem vs 7 on the CNR.
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