let's see then.
Minmatar ... Republic.
Gallente ... Federation.
Caldrari ... State.
Jovian ... Directorate.
Amarr...

By Jove you're right... the Amarr ARE the largest 'Empire' ......

Considering that they are the only ones to term themselves as such, that's not overly difficult. One man, living in a repurposed asteroid could be the largest Hegemony or any other term for a people, if he chose a title no-one else was, at that time, using.

Still... time and cleansing fire will fix ALL your problems.

That you take pride in killing betrays your lack of righteousness.

No, I take pride in defending our children, women, homes, households, held ones, and a way of life from those who would seek to destroy. And when I kill those who refuse to be reclaimed, that must be. Yes I am proud of those I work for in particular. The Theology Council has been the most upstanding employer in my short time as a pilot. I am proud to serve them and to be identified with the 24th IC.

Imagine that, Cael: us agreeing to a 't'!

Let all the faithful remember this and hold true in the face of all the blasphemies that are hurled at you. Let not your hearts fade my brothers and sisters.

No one is trying to destroy anything.

You and I both know that there are plenty who wish to do a whole lot of destroying.

O.K. "Lips"

O.K. "Lips" For starters take a look at the many coprporations dedicated to the destruction of Amarr. Second, here are a couple pilots who hate Amarr so much that they nick named themselves kill amarr and kill amarrians.

You and I both know that there are plenty who wish to do a whole lot of destroying.

HAHAHA, you make me laugh. It`s also interesting to see you resorting to nicknames... I'm sure it means something.

You enslave an entire race and expect no retribution? After the initial exaltation brought by freedom and the wish for vengeance, I`m pretty sure the Minmatar and everyone else would be quite happy to resume their own lives in peace (With you).

It`s just that your zealotry and slavery is a too big menace to reasonable civilizations and thus requires some preemptive offense. Maybe when you settle down as the "Amarr Kingdom" and limit slavery to your own kind, you will be worth of being left alone.

What needs preemptive offense is your unbridled freedom in the bedroom and material aid to Matari freedom fighters. Fix the free and open entertainment industry in your own Federation before casting stones at the immoral cesspool i reside in

Fixed that for you, no need to say thanks.

No, I take pride in defending our children, women, homes, households, held ones, and a way of life from those who would seek to destroy.

moral bankruptcy

I dont flaunt "jingling dog tags" and beg for a treat and parental praise like a child who has completed his chores.

You seem to me like a very hungry soul, much in need of reclaiming.

Hey, what's the difference between a Minmatar serf and a Caldari vassal? Give up? Nothing!

What needs preemptive offense is your unbridled hedonism and material aid to terrorists. Fix the moral bankruptcy in your own Federation before casting stones at the Empire.

Now that's just creepy.

Right down to the bit where I'm almost confident you were looking over her Galnet profile image as you were writing this.

The so-called free nations are under a false assuption that liberty is obtained by freeing the body to self-will. Problem is, the mind and spirit become imprisoned in depravity, violence, hedonism, and self-destruction. Amarr "slavery" as you call it, "holds" the body of the wayward in subjection while liberating the spirit, mind, soul from bondage into the freedom of God. Eventually, when the slave is set free, that whole person is free, not just a free body in a depraved, imprisoned mind and spirit. The true holder is the real instrument of emancipation.

Perhaps you should stop projecting your own twisted, godless, perverted mind on others and concentrate on the need for your own empty soul to be reclaimed, Mr. Marellus.

The so-called free nations are under a false assuption that liberty is obtained by freeing the body to self-will. Problem is, the mind and spirit become imprisoned in depravity, violence, hedonism, and self-destruction. Amarr "slavery" as you call it, "holds" the body of the wayward in subjection while liberating the spirit, mind, soul from bondage into the freedom of God.

Eventually, when the slave is set free, that whole person is free, not just a free body in a depraved, imprisoned mind and spirit. The true holder is the real instrument of emancipation.

Don't pat yourselves on the back and praise yourselves for how advanced you are. You are spiritually primitive.

Yes, you need to be reclaimed.

...if there really is a God...

This is why you need to be reclaimed, son.

Today I walked into ChoonkaGÇÖs Diner with 40 Republic insignia dog tags jingling around my belt, proud of the work I am doing in faithfulness to my God and Empress. There I sat with faithful brothers as we ate and drank and celebrated the righteousness of our cause and the assurance of just motives that we carry into every battle, conflict, and mission.

I think the biggest problem with the Empire is that the armed populace is using vague interpretations of ancient text as an excuse to go and kill people.

I think the biggest problem with the Empire is that the armed populace is using vague interpretations of ancient text as an excuse to go and kill people.

What needs preemptive offense is your unbridled hedonism and material aid to terrorists. Fix the moral bankruptcy in your own Federation before casting stones at the Empire.

Huh, I was warned about people like you, Theobar, you're like the bad guy in a holo I saw a while back, hell you even look like him.

The Loyalist Amarr derive their culture from fear, fear bound in holy writ, fear of anything different, anything which questions them even in the slightest, this is clearly evident in the lunatic ramblings on Mr Cresthill across the IGS.

The Amarr Empire is a backward culture that has failed to move with history and in doing so will be condemed to fire and ash untill nothing remains.

No Mr Cresthill you hear the ever encroaching sound of your empires demise as Omir's chosen bleed it slowly from the outside and rail at its foundations from within.

Astera forms her opinions of good and bad from watching holo-vids. Hmm...

One of the hallmark dividing lines between Amarr culture and the devolving civilization of Gallente is illustrated by the quote above. Amarr derives value from Scripture, obedience to God, serving humanity, seeking to redeem all, self-denial and unselfishness.

Gallentean culture, if you can call it culture, derives its values from holo-vids. Its self-indulgence, hedonism, careless views of personal liberty, godlessness, etc., are the characteristics of an entertainment based society. Gallente will eventually rot at its own roots from its own moral decay.

And before you think of accusing me of hypocrisy, .

Morwen Lagann is an hypocrite.

That you take pride in killing betrays your lack of righteousness.

This one act of betrayal puts paid to the entire ideology of reclaiming.

Strawman fallacy, Miss Zandraki

you're a moronic bigot.

Because I don't have an answer to your point, I'm going to just act like a child and accuse you of various logical fallacies instead of trying to refute your argument or try to help you understand my point better, Miss Zandraki

Fixed that for you, and clarified for the rest of us.

I am finally beginning to see the truth in what Mr. Cresthill is saying. I may even consider becoming part of the Cresthill estate so I too may experience true enlightenment.

I am very glad to hear that Miss Lagann

That's all you have to say about the death of I don't know how many million people? Wow, you're not just a bigot, you're a moronic bigot. Do the cluster a favour and meet your God asap hmkay?

...no, seriously. Getting laid would do you some good and be a relief to the rest of us, it might get you to shut up and let the rest of us have a reasonable debate for a while.

Thankyou, Ms. Lagann.

It seems as though you're unwilling to engage in an actual discussion or debate on the moral bankruptcy of the Empire, Mr Cresthill. So I'll just leave you to roll in your own foul smelling iniquity.

Birdsong.

The foul smelling iniquity is your's Miss. As for debate, I would be glad to point out that your historical references equivocating one historical occurrence as interpreted by one particular Anti-amarrian viewpoint with all of Amarrian theology is simple logical nonsense. But, you will never own up to that, would you? The more I confront your sin and depravity, the more desperate you become to shut me up. You react as one under conviction and desperate to escape the judgment that is due. There is only one way to do that; repent and be reclaimed. All of your fruitless arguments will not stay the hand of inevitable judgment that will come upon you.

Alright. Answer me this question. In your eyes where were the souls of all those killed in the Starkmanir Genocide sent: Heaven or Hell?

One day, we'll encounter an empire bigger than all of New Eden combined, also claiming to be the chosen people of God.

You'll be ****** then.

Ok, I'll compromise. The Majority, heaven or hell.

O.K. "Lips" For starters take a look at the many coprporations dedicated to the destruction of Amarr. Second, here are a couple pilots who hate Amarr so much that they nick named themselves kill amarr and kill amarrians.

You and I both know that there are plenty who wish to do a whole lot of destroying.

[...] self-denial and unselfishness. [...]

Oh, really.

Simple way to prove that:

Get your own people to do their own shitwork that nobody actually wants to do, or at least, pay the people you currently use to do it for you.

With money, benefits, and terms for same negotiated through a standard employee-contract, I mean, not some forced solipsistic delusion of enlightenment that was archaic and backwards who knows how many millenia ago, from which your chattel doesn't get to go home at night at now.

Walk your walk, instead of throwing in everyone else's face your talk, or **** off.

You still haven't answered my question, Mr. Cresthill.

On another note, we don't have 'serfs' in the Federation. Everyone is a free and equal citizen.

Now to the second part: "Everyone in the Federation is a free and equal citizen"? Please tell me you are joking. If you are not then you are deluded. The Federation is rife with human right abuses, prostitution, poverty, illegal slavery, human trafficking, worker abuse. Every social ill is present in the Federation. Tell me you are not that out of touch with reality that you would think that everyone in the Federation is a free and equal citizen. Tell me you are not that naive.

Take the branch from your own eye before you attempt to remove the splinter from mine.

You still haven't answered my question, Mr. Cresthill.

He's exceptionally good at selective quoting and picking on minor details to detract from the fact someone made a point he can't answer.

Yea, I see that. Alright Mr. Cresthill. Do you think the genocide of the Starkmanir was justifiable?

No, it is not. Answer the question: would you have given the order that Ardishapur did?

Answer the question.

Don't be an idiot. The question was one that only God could answer; that is obvious.

Don't be an idiot. The question was one that only God could answer; that is obvious.

Answer the question.

Didn't he do that by quoting your old question and giving an answer regarding the Starkmanir?

While I've been critical of him sidestepping at least this time he gave you an answer.

Well, until God decides to honor us with his wisdom, the question was asked of you, Captain Cresthill, and you are coming up sadly short in the credibility department with all of your sidestepping.

The question was asked of you, and you need to provide an answer.

OK, let see if I have this right. You want me to answer the question of what percentage of people killed in any given incident go to heaven and what percent go to hell, right? You want me, even though I do not know the individuals involved to say how many went here or there, right? Sorry, but that is an idiotic question.

That was if he thought they'd gone to heaven or hell. I'm asking now if he himself would have given the order to start the bombardment.

Would you have given the order Mr. Cresthill? Ardishapur, not God gave that order.

No, you answered that, poorly albeit.

I'm now asking if you would have given the order to start the bombardment like Ardishapur did.

Another one then. Vitoxin and TCMCs Where do you stand on them?

The Cresthills have never used Vitoxin nor needed it for any purpose. My theology does not necessitate its uses for any reason that I can see. What is TCMC? Oh, just in case you ask, we have no slaver hounds on the Cresthill estate either. Any other questions?

A trans-crainial microcontroller. It's an implant used in the Empire and other places to control people.

And Yes, I have plenty of questions. Has a slave ever tried to run from your estates, and if one did and was cuaght, what would you do?

Such a pious Amarrian! Dutifully guiding his slave stock without need for violence or coercive methods. How convenient! We call people like you 'Diet-Quaffe' Amarrians; All of the loving and caring of the religion without having to ever admit to any of the darker aspects. Very nice and tidy.


You might be more interesting Brother Cresthil if you didn't both look and talk like someone straight out of central casting for a poorly-made Gallente holo-film about Amarrians.

Alright, I'd like to see your estates if you'll let me.

Who are you and why should I care about what you say?

OK, let see if I have this right. You want me to answer the question of what percentage of people killed in any given incident go to heaven and what percent go to hell, right? You want me, even though I do not know the individuals involved to say how many went here or there, right? Sorry, but that is an idiotic question.

You know perfectly well, considering you've attempted to "comment" on my statements on several occasions, with comical results.

Yea, I'm not the type that can just sit down and meditate or anything like that. How about a whistle-stop tour? Meet some of your prisoners?

Good, I'm glad that we have established that you care about what I say, seeing as you have taken the time to comment.

I'd be reasonably confident in assuming it's an 80%-20% split -- again, given the moral ambiguity that is our basic nature.

Would you agree?

Do you really care about this question or are you just mess'n with me? If you really care, I will try my very best to answer with a guess.

I do care ahout the question, but probably not in the way you'd think.

I see so many of your fellow Amarrians hiding behind 'God isn't here to answer it' and avoiding having to actually draw a firm conclusion of their own. With all due respect, it's as though some of you are dependent on God to do your thinking for you.

I asked the question for two reasos: one, you said such questions were 'idiotic' earlier. I disagree on that point, but that's probably obvious by now. Two: throwing out your reasoning skills purely on the basis of God's inscrutability is nothing more than intellectual dishonesty, and I'd hoped that by bringing the question up, I might help you realize that.

Dear Ms. Stjerna,
I can respect your reasoning in this matter and I will apply what theology I have been taught to answer your question to the best of my ability. I need some time to think on it though, so I post again later with my answer. My answer will not be definitive, but like you, I will apply what I think is reasonable from Scripture, common sense, and experience to give you the most transparent opinion I can give. I'm sure those with greater theological experience could speculate with greater accuracy than I, but I will give it a go.

Have you ever been to the Cresthill estate and observed the Cresthill brothers in the fields working with the held ones? No. My father and uncles are two hours on the worksite before and after slaves arrive for each day's work. They work themselves harder than any slave is worked. Are held ones are fed better, cared for better, educated better than any Caldari or Gallentean serf. Automation would be far more profitable for our family holdings but not better. Those who live on the Cresthill estate see the "walk" every day and most quickly come to believe the legitimacy of our faith because of what they see. How many of you capsuleer pilots give a rip about your crews? How many Corporate executives roll up their sleeves with their employees?

You and others like you through profanity in the face of anyone you hate or disagree with Mr. Nightstick. Do you think "standard employee contracts" like corps use such as Ishukone et.al. that drive emplyees to deal drugs and commit crimes just to make ends meet, enlightened? Do you think marking a teenager with a mark of disgrace then driving them to a life of silence or prostitution enlightened? Do you think telling a boys and girls that the secret to life is going to parties and getting drunk and then wonder why they grow us to hate life, enlightened? The Gallente, Caldari, and Matari "values" constantly get pushed into our faces, so you will excuse me if I do a little pushing myself.

And show a little self-control in your language, Mr. if you are so superior.

Dear Ms. Underhill,

I have not wanted to answer your question because the answer reveals that as a true religious reclaimer, I and my family hold to a very non-political and "dangerous" view regarding the Starkmanir. I have permission from my father and his brothers to tell our story in spite of the possible dangers we may face as a result.

My father, Theosotar Cresthill is what you could call a disciple of the late Arzad Hamri. The Holder Arzad Hamri held that Scripture taught that a holder who worked along side his slaves was more likely to lead them to the truth. He held, and subsequently my father and my uncles have held, that the holder's responsibility to his slaves is to treat them with honor and kindness rather than harshness. Like Hamri, the Cresthills take advantage of the richness of culture inherent within the slave community as long as it is consistent with Amarrian Scripture and faith. God was winning the Starkmanir through Arzad's compassionate holdership. Then the political holders in jealousy condemned him to death for they feared his power.

The Starkmanir were, in fact, becoming a rich addition to the fullness of the Amarr faith and spirituality. In a sense they were nearly a whole people converted under Arzad Hamri. All of the best, God-Created aspects of the Starkmanir rose to the top and flourished under Arzad Hamri's rule. Most of the Starkmanir considered Arzad Hamri as the Pastor of their faith.

You know the rest of the story of how Arzad Hamri was condemned to death because of political jealousy and that Arkon Ardishapur took over as ruler and basically undid all of the positive that Arzad had worked so hard to achieve. After his death, his xenophobic son Idonis under the terrible advice of Zorac made the awful decision to basically put to death a population of the faithful who had been converted through the service of Arzad Hamri. To this day, the Cresthills commemorate this act with grief.

So, in answer to your question, I believe that nearly all the Starkmanir killed by Idonis were in fact faithful and are now in paradise. Not everyone in the theology counsel then or now agrees with the political cowardice exercised at that time. To this day many religious reclaimers like the Cresthills hold firmly to the theological interpretations of Arzad Hamri who was perhaps one of the greatest holders and spiritual pastors of all time.

For the sake of a number? Maybe 95% of those killed in that slaughter are in Heaven, for that is probably close to the percent of those who followed God under Arzad. Only those who held to depravity and rejection of God's mercy are lost.

There you have it. Let the chips fall where God wills for me saying this.

Theobar.

(And...Underking, not Underhill. Just saying.)

After eight years of this same tired argument, you people manage another six pages of it? Really?

... oh, and also..



.. it's a pun. His name is Cresthill, as in the top of a hill. Your name is being twisted rather cleverly to Underhill, because you are 'under' Cresthill.

...Some perhaps do not understand the meaning of the insignia that I keep from my battles. They are not trophies from the dead. No, they are reminders of how many are trying to snuff out the fire of God and the need to destroy those who attempt to do so. May God have mercy on their souls.

If you backpedal any faster you'll soon attain escape velocity and fly off into space. Nice try though.

Not slaves, no.

Your noobs will be slaves. Your miners, your haulers, your traders will be slaves!

But not you, no.
By noon this day, YOU will be lossmails.

THE THOUSAND SYSTEMS OF THE AMARR EMPIRE DESCEND UPON YOU.

Our ships will BLOT out the sun...

Who says I don't think that?

Atleast I know and express my true motivation. I don't need to hide my greed and bloodlust behind a curtain of religion.

I note that you are a rather highly decorated member of the enemy. How did you get these decorations? Among other things, you killed my friends, comrades, fellow faithful. You received these decorations by rejecting the truth of God and following your pagans ways of destruction and damnation, so don't accuse me of backpedaling. You are a killer of all that I hold dear. Although you are much more skilled than I, if I had the opportunity and could succeed, I would gladly have your tag jingling on my belt. It would remind me of what you are daily trying to destroy and what I am trying to defend. So don't be trite!

You want to talk about destruction and damnation? Let's start with what the Empire did to my family.

Captain Cresthill, my father died in one of the Empire's mines, from the gunfire of Imperial soldiers, who were trying to disable a malfunctioning mining laser. They didn't care that they were inadvertantly shooting living beings. The injured were simply left to die.

I don't want to 'destroy' the Empire -- I want to save it from itself.

Excuse me to differ, but isn't hypocracy the hiding a true intention behind a smokescreen of clarifications to justify what you do?

What you do is to your own personal gain. You mask it by proclaiming you do it for your god. So explain to me why your god needs you to wear dogtags of your victims.
The slaves which work for you make your life easier because you can let them do the things you don't want to do. Because you are too lazy for them or you feel yourself above the task.
By then claiming you are guiding the slaves to your god you have yet another smokescreen.

You worship a real poor god if his only means to spread his word is by violence, slavery and brainwashing.
It actually indicates that nobody in their right mind would follow your god.

If your god derives pleasure in you killing people, enslaving them and expanding his influence then I could say I am your god.

You want to talk about destruction and damnation? Let's start with what the Empire did to my family.

Captain Cresthill, my father died in one of the Empire's mines, from the gunfire of Imperial soldiers, who were trying to disable a malfunctioning mining laser. They didn't care that they were inadvertantly shooting living beings. The injured were simply left to die.

I don't want to 'destroy' the Empire -- I want to save it from itself.

What do you know about why I do what do? Nothing. My clarifications were for people like you who assume everyone is motivated by the same avarice that you are. Slavery doesn't make life for the Cresthills easier. Following the teachings of Arzad Hamri is a hard life and having slaves is a burden, not a profit. We bear that burden because it is the reclaiming call of God. You wouldn't understand this because you are Godless and in need of reclaiming yourself. You speak out of the assumption that everyone is like you, greedy, self-centered, caring only about yourself. You know nothing of me or my ways. I however, evaluate you on your own admission of self-gain.

Show me the slaver or slaveholder who doesn't profit from holding slaves and I will show you an amarrian who isn't a true amarr in your eyes.

quote unquote great empires.

hardened by your own selfish greed to acknowledge that anyone can love something of someone more than you love your precious ISK. I pity you.

I have a couple of questions, Captain Cresthill.

1) Vitoxin is a poison, yes or no?

and

2) Does God consider poisoning someone to be a 'loving' act?

Since I have received permission from my father and uncles to freely explain and preach the good theology and views of Arzad Hamri, I have felt a freedom. Let the chips fall where God wills. We will stand in the truth of the mercy and love of true reclaiming.



1. Vitoxin is a a vile and wicked poison and it never entered into the mind of God to use such a thing to reclaim the wandering ones He loves. Vitoxin is an invention of the politically and economically motivated minority of Amarrians who stoop to use it. The Hamrite communities of my home planet including the Cresthills have never and will never use such an ungodly thing. Arzad Hamri has taught us the true ways of reclaiming. Those outside the Empire have tried to paint all holders as those with a shot of Votoc ready in hand. Not a drop of it is found on our estate nor on any Hamrite estate.
2. God does not consider poisoning someone with Vitoxin to be a loving act. In my opinion, those who do so are not true Holders, but counterfeits. Arzad Hamri has taught us the true way of holding. We follow in his footsteps.

At this point, your only real option is to look outside your own estates to see what the Empire is doing. Relying on the 'No True Amarrian' fallacy will get you no where.

At this point, your only real option is to look outside your own estates to see what the Empire is doing. Relying on the 'No True Amarrian' fallacy will get you no where.

What is a fallacy is that you think that these sorts that you rail against are not, in fact, representative of the Empire As It Is.

What they do not represent is the Empire As It Ought To Be. Or, rather, the Empire As Theobar Cresthill Believes It Ought To Be.

Would you take up arms, if you saw no other choice, to stop these holders?

I have encountered ignorance before, but you peg the meter. I can show you many holders who do not profit from holding slaves, whose estates would be far more profitable through mechanization, but instead fulfill the call of God by hold those He loves for their enlightenment and salvation. Are you a historical ignoramus? You must be. True holdership is best exemplified in those who follow the theology and practices of Arzad Hamri the greatest holder and pastor of the Amarrian faith in all of history. You are too hardened by your own selfish greed to acknowledge that anyone can love something of someone more than you love your precious ISK. I pity you.

You are entitled to your opinion, but those who do not share it are not by default, guilty of fallacy.

Have you ever bothered to ask the opinion of those whom you enslave?

I expect "killer" to continue to let the diarrhea of ignorance and greed flow out of his mouth and he likely will continue to judge me and others like me on the basis of his own moral bankruptcy.

There is a simple fallacy often used in argumentation. The previous 3 angry men and one angry woman have repeated that fallacy again and again.

It is the claim that if one person in group is guilty of something, the whole group is guilty. It would be similar to saying that since some Sebiestors engage in slave trading in Minmatar space then the Minmatar Republic is guilty of illegal slave trade or the Minmatar Republic is a slave trading republic.

Now this is the way you all are arguing. If you want to apply your reasoning across the board then apply it yourself as well.

In the meantime, while you seethe in your anger and bitterness, our Hamrite communities will thrive. Men and women will grow in the faith and become productive citizens when they are emancipated.

Killer, you judge the souls of those in our Hamrite communities as if they are so small and insignificant that need you to defend them from what you perceive me to be. How would they feel about your condescending attitude?

The Imperial government developed, legalised and autherised the poison to be used.

The Imperial government developed, legalised and autherised the poison to be used. Yet they are still not at fault?

Developed?: Vitoxin was a joint development of the Caldari State and the Jovians
Legalized?: The law is silent regarding vitoxin, but the Hamrites have always lobbied for laws against its use.
Authorized?: Allowed and authorized are not the same. For example, the Gallente Federation allows the sale of slaves and the taxation of those sales by SCC. Does that mean that the Gallente Federation Authorizes the sale of slaves within the Federation?

What? Who told you that?

Developed?: Vitoxin was a joint development of the Caldari State and the Jovians
Legalized?: The law is silent regarding vitoxin, but the Hamrites have always lobbied for laws against its use.
Authorized?: Allowed and authorized are not the same. For example, the Gallente Federation allows the sale of slaves and the taxation of those sales by SCC. Does that mean that the Gallente Federation Authorizes the sale of slaves within the Federation?

The Vitoc Method of controlling slaves was first put into usage by the Amarr Empire a few centuries ago. The method involves injecting slaves with a toxin which will then kill them if they are not steadily provided with an antidote. The method was initially used only on slaves working as ship crews, then expanded into other areas that require highly-skilled slaves to conduct delicate work.

Roughly 15 years ago, the Amarr introduced a new refinement to the Vitoc Method. A viral agent that would stay in a subject's system forever, producing toxins that were deadly within 24 hours unless they were treated with Vitoc each and every day. This nameless toxin has been dubbed "Vitoxin" by Republic scientists in order to distinguish it from the Vitoc compound that acts as an antidote.

Do you know just what Vitoxin does to a person? Liver and kidney failure, seizures, pulmonary oedema, muscular atrophy, short-term memory impairment, delirium, lung scarification, damage to the heart muscles, fever, respiratory collapse, and all of it occurring within two weeks' time.

I need to investigate these claims for myself.

I need to investigate these claims for myself.

It's nice that you are so devoted to the cause and beliefs of one of our more enlightened thinkers - but you are blinded by arrogance and optimism. There is a great deal wrong with the Empire, and no matter how good your own intentions are, to refute that and deny the grievances of others does nothing to help our cause.

I need to investigate these claims for myself.

So, help me out. Where can I go to ask about the truth value of the things I am hearing? These accusations are totally opposite of the way I was raised and the way I saw my father and uncles live. The Hamrites do not do these things. I was taught that the use of vitoxin was a aberration. You all are saying that it is mainstream. Where am I supposed to go to find out the truth?

I am not just going to accept anyone's opinion. I need a trustworthy source.

Why the deafening silence all of a sudden?

Doesn't the truth deserve the same vigor as your outcries for your cause?

Ah, so when you have your findings you aren't going to proclaim them as loudly as you were previous, but are going to look up someone trusted and keep things hush hush.

How convenient and typical.

There is silence because I am planning trips to visit with three people. I am going to see the Sisters, but before that, I am going to tell my father what I am doing. He deserves that much. After that, I will bring my findings to someone who is a veteran of the 24th IC and someone I trust. When I am done and have something to say, I will.

If I believe I have found evidence that condemns the Amarr Government, I will proclaim it loud and clear, just as I have regarding the Starkmir atrocity. Nothing will be kept hush hush. My reason for planning to speak to a 24IC person who has served the empire is so that I can get a reaction. My fellow Amarrians have been curiously silent on this thread and I want to know why.

As for you Killer, I don't think you really want me to find the truth, otherwise who would you insult? I think you want me to continue to post on this thread in ways that fuel your spite. I think you enjoy posting this way. Whatever blows your hair back, pal.

I'm trying to find a word that describes you, but I can't quite find it. Maybe the closest concept would be...

Gilipollas

By the sisters, do you mean the Servant Sisters of EVE, AKA the heretical organization?

I like where you are going, Mr. Cresthill.

The SOE are heretics ?

Wouldn't that make them heathens, not heretics?

It depends on how much Amarr theology found its way into their belief system.

Hopefully not too much. Else the humanitarian part would be dropped real soon.

How so?

How so?

Amarr religion >>> Slavery
SOE >>> Humanitarian
Humanitarian and slavery are quit opposite last time I checked.
But this is ofcourse a none Amarr none slaveholder opinion and as such holds no means for the Ueberrace.

I need to investigate these claims for myself.

I was like you once: idealistic, determined to save my people, angry at Amarrians in general. It doesn't do any of us any good to tar everyone with the same brush.

My wife has never owned slaves, and she crossed the border in protest of her government's treatment of slaves in the Empire. She helped me realize that my anger was misdirected, at least as far as the individual Amarrian is concerned. We fight for the same cause, but come at it from different angles: she wants to end the mistreatment of slaves, and I want to end slavery entirely.

I hope that you don't let your anger get the better of you.

You are right.
Change "righteous" to "brainwashed" and "presumptuous." And "spew" I did. And if you meet me in space, God would be just to allow you to blow me into space dust. Earlier I said that I had access to the RSS document on vitoxin. That was true. What I didn't tell you was that I never read it until three days ago. I dismissed it as the rhetoric of our enemies, because those I trusted said so. Shame on me for that. I am not a righteous man.

In the last three days at X-7OMU, I have begun to discover how unrighteous. My biggest shame is that I thought I understood the ways of Arzad Hamri. Now I have begun to read the lost fragments. There is so much we were never told or taught. Your anger is justified Ms. Starfire.

I was like you once: idealistic, determined to save my people, angry at Amarrians in general. It doesn't do any of us any good to tar everyone with the same brush.

My wife has never owned slaves, and she crossed the border in protest of her government's treatment of slaves in the Empire. She helped me realize that my anger was misdirected, at least as far as the individual Amarrian is concerned. We fight for the same cause, but come at it from different angles: she wants to end the mistreatment of slaves, and I want to end slavery entirely.

I hope that you don't let your anger get the better of you.

Finally, a personal apology for my part in slavery: I held slaves. That was wrong. I am sorry.

Finally, a personal apology for my part in slavery: I held slaves. That was wrong. I am sorry.

Finally, a personal apology for my part in slavery: I held slaves. That was wrong. I am sorry.

Good grief. That drastic change of attitude took all of what, two weeks? I see my charges of you being a "diet-Quafe" Amarrian were 100% accurate.

You weak, weak little man.

If seriously entertaining the possibility that you may be wrong is "weak", then weakness is truly a virtue.

There is no virtue in weakness, only the strong survive as is the way of things.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Good.

As another on the IGS recently remarked, a true patriot must be able to see the flaws of his homeland and accept them. To refuse to do so is the path to mindless zealotry.

See the flaws of his homeland and correct them.

See the flaws of his homeland and correct them. Which is unlikely to be an easy process, of course. But it has to start with a few people who are willing to stop and challenge common wisdom, to oppose it where it is wrong, and break it where it is immoral.