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0raven0 Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 14:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Agor Dirdonen Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: cRazYf1St lately since nano's are seen more often it's not quite as much a stab since you may be tackled by the other nanoer's. so people have to nano to kill nano? now that's what's called a major imbalance. How do you kill a heavily tanked ship with lots of DPS 1v1? Right, with another heavily tanked ship with lots of DPS. A nano only dents your armor. All heavily tanked battleships today use cap charges to keep their tank going. so yeah at first the nano ship won't do much but eventually the BS will run out of cap charges and die. ------ Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.03.26 14:25:00 - [32] Threads with sensationalist rhetorical questions the quickest route to fail? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Mardig Caress of Steel	Posted - 2008.03.26 14:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Xaen Threads with sensationalist rhetorical questions the quickest route to fail? As opposed to your rhetorical post which fails? I agree with the poster who said nothing should be able to outrun a missile. A torpedo? Sure. Outrunning a missile is just silly.
Rick Thwaites Caritas.	Posted - 2008.03.26 14:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Mardig Originally by: Xaen Threads with sensationalist rhetorical questions the quickest route to fail? I agree with the poster who said nothing should be able to outrun a missile. A torpedo? Sure. Outrunning a missile is just silly. As a Caldari who uses missiles almost exclusively, I disagree. Our missiles do not go faster than light, nor the speed of light, so it follows logically that some things are able to outrun them. If you are worried about someone outrunning your missile, train up the skills to 5. Very few things that aren't interceptors flying in a straight line can outrun my cruise missiles - they may not do a lot of damage because they are outrunning my explosion velocity - but I can still hit them. --
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.03.26 14:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Mardig Originally by: Xaen Threads with sensationalist rhetorical questions the quickest route to fail? As opposed to your rhetorical post which fails? I agree with the poster who said nothing should be able to outrun a missile. A torpedo? Sure. Outrunning a missile is just silly. That sound you hear is irony flying over your head. On an unrelated note, Hai Rick! - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Zarnak Wulf The Merchant Marines Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.03.26 14:57:00 - [36] The nano issue is part of the larger picture of game mechanics. As it stands now if you start a raid into an opponent's territory your position is usually given away 5-10 jumps out by local. A response that sometimes includes hot-dropping capitals is prepared. When your small gang meets this response it will die if it's not comprised of nano ships. The problem is if you nerf nano ships and let the other game mechanics stand as-is, you will only have blob warfare. The live dev-blog was interesting in that they talked SO much about changing scanning/ the nature of local. The speed issue was addressed only by one question after the main blog. I would almost bet money that you will see: a) A major change in local/ scanning game mechanics. and THEN b) nano nerf.
Zephyr Rengate Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.03.26 15:04:00 - [37] Nano is so easy to beat though. Any decent gang will have no issues against a nano gang.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.03.26 15:36:00 - [38] ECM - Heavy Neuts - a sniper gang picking off nanos - your own nanos/minnie recons, all overcome nanogangs. Leave it be - it ads tactical flexibility. Without it you will have boring slugfests of dps+tank blobs - yawn... Sure they can escape - but they can't do much damage either - seems balanced to me. If you spent as much as the nano guy on your own missile skills and rigs and implants - you too can deal with any practical combat speed. I think blobs are a bigger problem than nanos - and your suggestions to weaken nano's would make the blobs even more prevalent... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
stahmul North Face Force	Posted - 2008.03.26 15:44:00 - [39] Originally by: L70Rogue Hopefully Zulupark is paying close attention to these threads because everyone knows that speed is overpowered and the new WCS especially nano'd Heavy Assault Ships. Can't wait until the nerf bat hits speed on it's head hard. The tears of**abond pilots everywhere will taste so sweet. I believe Zulupark has already reached his quota this year for **ing off the EVE playerbase. Notice how he hasn't done much lately?
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.04.13 10:08:00 - [40] Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 13/04/2008 10:11:28 Originally by: stahmul I believe Zulupark has already reached his quota this year for ****ing off the EVE playerbase. Notice how he hasn't done much lately? Oh, you think he's not doing anything anymore now? He's just not asking for feedback from the playerbase thanks to all the flaming he got. They'll discuss it internally, when they think it's better for the game they'll introduce it and simply mention it in the patchnotes without asking feedback from the playerbase. If there's one thing the devs learned from the flaming Zulupark got is that the playerbase isn't worth anymore to ask for feedback. At least that part of the playerbase that simply spits their anger when they can't deal with a chance in the game. As that part is the most vocal part on the forums, they've stopped asking for feedback. Or do you see the other devs happily blogging till they can't type anymore? Edit: to back up my story: Linkage Pay attention to the last line of CCP Prism X's post.
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.04.13 10:17:00 - [41] Originally by: L70Rogue Hopefully Zulupark is paying close attention to these threads because everyone knows that speed is overpowered and the new WCS especially nano'd Heavy Assault Ships. Can't wait until the nerf bat hits speed on it's head hard. The tears of**abond pilots everywhere will taste so sweet. I'm really afraid you're not gonna get the expected results IF or WHEN nano is going to be nerfed. May I refer you to the ECM nerf? ECM got nerfed BUT the ECM specialized ships got a huge bonus to counter the nerf. There are other examples where nerfing was done in general except for those ships that were designed to use those features. So, when it comes down to nerfing nano's, may I refer you to the vagabond's description? "The fastest cruiser invented to date**, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat." It's intended feature is SPEED. Now, suppose nano's are being nerfed, the vagabond will get an extra bonus reducing the effect of the nerf for that specific ship. The ones that will be hit hard are not going to be Minmatar ships but all others that can be fitted now to go fast as well, like Ishtars. Note: I don't fly vaga's btw.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 10:24:00 - [42] If nanos are so leet then why TRI lose ships? Yes i know i spelled COAD wrong. Stop mailing me about it I refuse to read SHC
Zephyr Rengate Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.13 10:25:00 - [43] Necro thread tbh.
DanMck Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 10:37:00 - [44] so what is the alternative ? we have rr gangs all the time (everyone loved that in the tourny) everyone replaces nano with damage mods ? 5 shield extender drakes ? no nano on an inite or eaf ? what is it supposed to fit ? a tank fighting with speed on your side means you can fight outnumbered if this is removed then there will be less pvp not more. the vaga is not overpowered and fitting your ship like a vaga pilot fits his is not making it overpowered either. if this change comes into effect it will totally change pvp in eve and that is the last thing we need.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.13 10:40:00 - [45] Generic nano-whine 3568834 fails as much as the previous attempts. Adapt or die. Black Hand.
Daniel Borealis Minmatar Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 10:42:00 - [46] The tools to counter nano are there, they can and are used effectively... except by the people like the op. Evertime I see "wcs = nano" I feel a deep urge to shake someone violently until they come to their senses... Any properly fit gang.. or even individual.. can fend off a nano ship. It's not even hard.. or complicated for pete's sake. The people who whine about nano just can't bother to put on a heavy neut or webber drones or ecm or use a min recon or get a bunch of inties or heaven forbid fly nano or etc or etc........ sigh
Kay Han Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:08:00 - [47] There is absolutly no ***** problem with Nanos. The only problem are the peeps who dont have the correct counters to nanos. You want to catch a vaga? Get a hugging, overload your webs, get Hvy neuts, get sensor damps and t2 missiles, get a buddy to help you... start thinking about how to catch a fast ship instead of running to the forums and cry like baby jesus everytime you lost a ship to a vaga... Originally by:** CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:22:00 - [48] Originally by: 0raven0 Originally by: Agor Dirdonen Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: cRazYf1St lately since nano's are seen more often it's not quite as much a stab since you may be tackled by the other nanoer's. so people have to nano to kill nano? now that's what's called a major imbalance. How do you kill a heavily tanked ship with lots of DPS 1v1? Right, with another heavily tanked ship with lots of DPS. A nano only dents your armor. All heavily tanked battleships today use cap charges to keep their tank going. so yeah at first the nano ship won't do much but eventually the BS will run out of cap charges and die. Well how? Where will you be where this can happen? At a star gate? The bs just heads back towards the gate. At a station? The bs just docks At an asteroid belt? The bs just heads towards the asteroids to force the nano to move off or risk being bumped. OMFG BUT WHAT IF THE BS IS WEBBED???? I dunno, web back and kill it? -- Ralara / Ralarina
Kolatha	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:24:00 - [49] I just lost a ship to a nano gang. That said, I gotta agree with those saying that nanos are not the problem, I lost my ship to carelessness more than the skill of the nano gang. As it stands, the best way to deal with nano gangs is to just get organised with a fast heavy hitting sniper gang. If you can't get organised then simply bore the nano gang, deny them targets. While there are counters to the nano gang there are still some minor issues. I think a small buff to tracking comps and a slight speed boost to web drones wouldn't go astray. I also feel that CCP needs to take another look at the warp core stabiliser now that heavy dictors are in the game. Going back to the way they were is not really a good idea, they do need some sort of penalty. I'd like to see the WCS as an activateable module with a high cap cost, but that's just my opinion.
Bazman Caldari Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:28:00 - [50] I hate nanosetups as much as the next person, but tbh, there are lots of counters you can use and they take a little bit of luck to work. Anyway: Curse, Huginn, Rapier, anything that fires missles. Heavy Neutralisers on a battleship. ECM, Damps. My personal favourite counter is a speed fitted ishtar with a couple of medium neuts. Keeps up with the typical vagabond and can neut it silly. In two days, I'll be flying a nanocurse. Even more nano ships shall diiiiiie -----
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Mardig Originally by: Xaen Threads with sensationalist rhetorical questions the quickest route to fail? As opposed to your rhetorical post which fails? I agree with the poster who said nothing should be able to outrun a missile. A torpedo? Sure. Outrunning a missile is just silly. That sound you hear is irony flying over your head. On an unrelated note, Hai Rick! This guy had it right... oh and 2 1/2 - 3 week old necro ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:49:00 - [52] Originally by: Corwain you can't nano a 1200dps mega, but you can put a wcs on it. Your logic fails. you can't lock down a nona with 2-4-8-16 disruptors/scramblers, but you can most CERTAINLY lock down that megathorn. so his logic holds quite well I declare war on stupidity
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Rick Thwaites Originally by: Mardig Originally by: Xaen Threads with sensationalist rhetorical questions the quickest route to fail? I agree with the poster who said nothing should be able to outrun a missile. A torpedo? Sure. Outrunning a missile is just silly. As a Caldari who uses missiles almost exclusively, I disagree. Our missiles do not go faster than light, nor the speed of light, so it follows logically that some things are able to outrun them. If you are worried about someone outrunning your missile, train up the skills to 5. Very few things that aren't interceptors flying in a straight line can outrun my cruise missiles - they may not do a lot of damage because they are outrunning my explosion velocity - but I can still hit them. okey so what ship and setup in eve goes anywhere NEAR 299.792.458 m/s (which is the speed of light) .... it seems that you don't even know the speed of light dude.. keep to what you know off.. i got maxed missiles skills and the top implants for missiles and still the cruise missiles are outrunend by real nano ships, it is just silly and stupid.. I declare war on stupidity
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Agor Dirdonen Originally by: L70Rogue Hopefully Zulupark is paying close attention to these threads because everyone knows that speed is overpowered and the new WCS especially nano'd Heavy Assault Ships. Can't wait until the nerf bat hits speed on it's head hard. The tears of**abond pilots everywhere will taste so sweet. I'm really afraid you're not gonna get the expected results IF or WHEN nano is going to be nerfed. May I refer you to the ECM nerf? ECM got nerfed BUT the ECM specialized ships got a huge bonus to counter the nerf. There are other examples where nerfing was done in general except for those ships that were designed to use those features. So, when it comes down to nerfing nano's, may I refer you to the vagabond's description? "The fastest cruiser invented to date**, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat." It's intended feature is SPEED. Now, suppose nano's are being nerfed, the vagabond will get an extra bonus reducing the effect of the nerf for that specific ship. The ones that will be hit hard are not going to be Minmatar ships but all others that can be fitted now to go fast as well, like Ishtars. Note: I don't fly vaga's btw. problem have never been ships that are designed to go at extreme speeds like interceptors, it comes when something like hacs that was never meant to go over 3k goes 6k no prob I declare war on stupidity
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.13 12:06:00 - [55] Originally by: DanMck so what is the alternative ? we have rr gangs all the time (everyone loved that in the tourny) everyone replaces nano with damage mods ? 5 shield extender drakes ? no nano on an inite or eaf ? what is it supposed to fit ? a tank fighting with speed on your side means you can fight outnumbered if this is removed then there will be less pvp not more. the vaga is not overpowered and fitting your ship like a vaga pilot fits his is not making it overpowered either. if this change comes into effect it will totally change pvp in eve and that is the last thing we need. Maybe you should stop making assumptions and jumping to ridiculous conclusions like every other idiot in this thread. They aren't going to remove speed mods from the game. The vagabond is still going to be the fastest HAC by virtue of it's base attributes. Speed tanking just needs to be more like... tanking. Currently it's more like "you can't touch me until I decide to slow down lalalalala". On ships that aren't meant to be touched, like interceptors, it's fine though. Why? Because inties don't have tanking bonuses, or increased resists like other T2 ships. It's pretty obvious that ships were never meant to go that fast while still being able to sustain damage when they slow down. The Vagabond is an exception to this (along with a few other ships), and that's not going to change because no matter what they do it's still going to be comparatively faster than all other ships of it's class. I mean, was the Vagabond garbage before polycarb rigs? I didn't think so! Maybe after they nerf speed on big ships, they'll unnerf AFs and get people back in small ships who want to go fast. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Shananigan	Posted - 2008.04.13 12:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Agor Dirdonen Originally by: L70Rogue Hopefully Zulupark is paying close attention to these threads because everyone knows that speed is overpowered and the new WCS especially nano'd Heavy Assault Ships. Can't wait until the nerf bat hits speed on it's head hard. The tears of**abond pilots everywhere will taste so sweet. I'm really afraid you're not gonna get the expected results IF or WHEN nano is going to be nerfed. May I refer you to the ECM nerf? ECM got nerfed BUT the ECM specialized ships got a huge bonus to counter the nerf. There are other examples where nerfing was done in general except for those ships that were designed to use those features. So, when it comes down to nerfing nano's, may I refer you to the vagabond's description? "The fastest cruiser invented to date**, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat." It's intended feature is SPEED. Now, suppose nano's are being nerfed, the vagabond will get an extra bonus reducing the effect of the nerf for that specific ship. The ones that will be hit hard are not going to be Minmatar ships but all others that can be fitted now to go fast as well, like Ishtars. Note: I don't fly vaga's btw. I think this is something no one has yet to realize, some ships are made for speed and if a nerf does happen it wont actually effect those ships, so people will just train up on that race and 30 days after the nerf, oh you have nanos again. Heres the kicker though, now all the ships that could be nano that got nerfed will no longer be able to counter the ones that didnt, THEN there will be a nano problem. As it is there is plenty of ways to counter nano, people would just rather whine on the forums repeatidly instead of actually checking up on how to counter them. do your research people, I did and I have no real problems with nanos, they usually just run away because I can tank the crap out of there small pew pew and as someone already said if they run it mean YOU won not them, duh...
DanMck Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 12:23:00 - [57] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: DanMck so what is the alternative ? we have rr gangs all the time (everyone loved that in the tourny) everyone replaces nano with damage mods ? 5 shield extender drakes ? no nano on an inite or eaf ? what is it supposed to fit ? a tank fighting with speed on your side means you can fight outnumbered if this is removed then there will be less pvp not more. the vaga is not overpowered and fitting your ship like a vaga pilot fits his is not making it overpowered either. if this change comes into effect it will totally change pvp in eve and that is the last thing we need. Maybe you should stop making assumptions and jumping to ridiculous conclusions like every other idiot in this thread. They aren't going to remove speed mods from the game. The vagabond is still going to be the fastest HAC by virtue of it's base attributes. Speed tanking just needs to be more like... tanking. Currently it's more like "you can't touch me until I decide to slow down lalalalala". On ships that aren't meant to be touched, like interceptors, it's fine though. Why? Because inties don't have tanking bonuses, or increased resists like other T2 ships. It's pretty obvious that ships were never meant to go that fast while still being able to sustain damage when they slow down. The Vagabond is an exception to this (along with a few other ships), and that's not going to change because no matter what they do it's still going to be comparatively faster than all other ships of it's class. I mean, was the Vagabond garbage before polycarb rigs? I didn't think so! Maybe after they nerf speed on big ships, they'll unnerf AFs and get people back in small ships who want to go fast. ok so using your logic here comes the 30 man vaga gangs supported by 10 people in crows sounds like fun to me
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.13 13:25:00 - [58] Originally by: DanMck here comes the 30 man vaga gangs supported by 10 people in crows I would rather see this than the mostly nano cruiser gangs that are typical. At least there would be a reason to fly ceptors. Currently the only reason to fly ceptors is if you're poor or suicidal. Otherwise a nano cruiser is a superior choice.
DanMck Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 13:34:00 - [59] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** DanMck here comes the 30 man vaga gangs supported by 10 people in crows I would rather see this than the mostly nano cruiser gangs that are typical. At least there would be a reason to fly ceptors. Currently the only reason to fly ceptors is if you're poor or suicidal. Otherwise a nano cruiser is a superior choice. what is the difference ? mixed gangs are what eve is all about if it ever gets to gangs of all one ship type then it's an easy way to work out something is overpowered or overnerfed also coming from smash who used to fit 5 wcs + on one ship is funny
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.13 14:31:00 - [60] Originally by: DanMck what is the difference ? mixed gangs are what eve is all about ...also coming from smash who used to fit 5 wcs + on one ship is funny Mixed gangs are not what eve is about anymore. Large fleets can afford to use various types but for small gangs and medium gangs speed is what matters. Battleships are a liablity and battlecruisers/command ships are tolerated for their speed buff. Tacklers have been replaced by nano hacs/recons. Gangs with battleships are vulnerable to nanos. Its often said that speed is the only way to counter larger fleets. Doesn't this indicate that speed is broken? And wcs were nerfed. Thankfully we have nanos which have replaced wcs (ie the stabbed stabber).

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