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Bklyn 1
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:43:00 -
[1]
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
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Benco97
Exchangable Properties
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:47:00 -
[2]
My personal feelings on your points are as follows:
1) I agree, goddamn alts making people not fear consequences of their actions.
2) Eh, I don't really care about that one, never been involved with missions myself.
3) I agree, something should be done really, local is a powerful intel tool.
4) Again, I agree, Never liked the insurance system.
5) I was much happier with eve before WTZ was introduced, I've not lost a ship ONCE to pirates since WTZ.
as I said, just my opinions, not calling for things to be done about it.
 Originally by: Kirjava
This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:51:00 -
[3]
Yeah, I have to agree with you. It's pretty much become a carebear game no matter what role you play.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Capital Kill
Krispy Corp LLC
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:53:00 -
[4]
1) I personally don't much care for alts, but their not going away so its no use whining about them 
2) Personally I just started manufacturing and it seems like an easy way to make money even when your afk.
3) I agree, lets ditch local and go for constellation, local in out of the way systems isn't very talkative 
4) I think for the new people insurance is very important, but for older players its just a cheap way to go through lots of ships with nearly no isk actually lost.
5) Don't do much pvp myself so I don't really care about people escaping, but I would be devastated if I had to watch my freighter go 100m/s all the way to the gate every time.
Teamspeak Hosting
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Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:54:00 -
[5]
1) totaly agree
2) 0.0 rating? Dunno about that, but i would vote for harder missions. none scripted ones should do the trick
3) again, totaly agree
4) i agree somehow, but in WoW, you don't loose much of your equipment, do you? :)
5) dunno. when all it'll change is to create more bookmarks, then i like WTZ very very much. otherwise, agreed
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Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
4) WOW does not have this because you dont loose anything when you die  otherwise I can understand the other points.
---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.03.25 22:59:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 25/03/2008 23:00:12
The fun thing about alts is they have become sort of a neccesety in Deep space and Low Sec. Because every time I hear someone claim its too harsh and unlawful with lots of gatecamps there, the answer from others is and will always be get a alt to scout for you.
The game and its players are really in many aspects their own worst enemy. Not the game itself and its mechanics. Take bookmarks for example. Everyone used them to such a degree it completely bogged down the servers! At that point CCP did not have much of a choice to introduce a feature to get rid of it. And the solution could only be two things. WTZ or make it harder by not making it possible to make bookmarks within certain distance of certain objects etc. I personally think they did the right thing. Besides the second solution could have proved very difficult to make.
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
So that you don't see them coming from a lightyear away ?
Agreed on most other points. Alts should have never been allowed to begin with , missions destroy the risk/rewards balance and warp to zero made travel a little too easy (though sniping at lowsec gates was a cheap form of piracy)
Insurance probably helps people a little too much , but at the same time allows true skill to make more of a difference than ISK or SP (so you can win a war with T1 cruisers if you manage to defeat the enemies' HACs)
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
edit: Wow, that was unpleasant, I felt pity for someone. Won't happen again.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 25/03/2008 23:00:12
The fun thing about alts is they have become sort of a neccesety in Deep space and Low Sec. Because every time I hear someone claim its too harsh and unlawful with lots of gatecamps there, the answer from others is and will always be get a alt to scout for you.
The game and its players are really in many aspects their own worst enemy. Not the game itself and its mechanics. Take bookmarks for example. Everyone used them to such a degree it completely bogged down the servers! At that point CCP did not have much of a choice to introduce a feature to get rid of it. And the solution could only be two things. WTZ or make it harder by not making it possible to make bookmarks within certain distance of certain objects etc. I personally think they did the right thing. Besides the second solution could have proved very difficult to make.
You can't blame players for using what's available to them. If a certain part of the game grants a lopsided advantage to those who use it, then it's not the fault of the players for using it, it's CCP's fault for failing to balance their game.
It'd be like putting an I-WIN button on the UI and then blaming players for pushing it.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Sereifex Daku
Intergalactic Squad
Celestial Frontier
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:19:00 -
[10]
I agree with all of the OP's points.
1) A forum can put potential customers off. when people make forum alts and troll to excess it can give the wrong impression of a game community.
2) It makes sense to have no level 4s in high sec. They are very hard to do on one's own, so if you are missioning with friends then why fear pirates? If you have skill then you should hardly ever get caught.
3) Removing local would create a more solid role for people with scanners. It would promote teamwork and make 0.0 feel a lot more exciting.
4) Anything bigger than a battlecruiser shouldn't have insurance, imo.
5) WTZ has destroyed my perception of the EVE universe. It used to feel good playing in a vast universe. Now it jsut feels as small as Azeroth. However, if WTZ were to be removed then I'd insist that it would be impossible to create bookmarks next to stargates or starbases. Instas annoyed me.
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Recon Three
181st Legion
United Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:23:00 -
[11]
There should be some kind of "Hardcore" server. Same characters you have on Tranquility, but it'd be a completely different world.
And by Hardcore, I'm talking Diablo-type Hardcore. IF YOU DIE YOU DED.
__________
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. |
Marcus TheMartin
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Recon Three
There should be some kind of "Hardcore" server. Same characters you have on Tranquility, but it'd be a completely different world.
And by Hardcore, I'm talking Diablo-type Hardcore. IF YOU DIE YOU DED.
bleh>Hostiles in system
w34u9> How many?
bleh> 2
w34u9> we've got 30 active at the moment
bleh> **** dock up every one
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Recon Three
181st Legion
United Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:31:00 -
[13]
Okay, maybe not that "hardcore". 
__________
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. |
Anell
Evil Avatar Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:34:00 -
[14]
In regards to the OP's post. Just because EVE could be an even harsher game with an even higher death penalty etc does not mean it is a warm and fuzzy environment. I like EVE and enjoy it a great deal. But don't pretend its not one of if not the harshest and coldest MMO's to come out of a non-asian country.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Anell
In regards to the OP's post. Just because EVE could be an even harsher game with an even higher death penalty etc does not mean it is a warm and fuzzy environment. I like EVE and enjoy it a great deal. But don't pretend its not one of if not the harshest and coldest MMO's to come out of a non-asian country.
Gimme a break. Insurance, free (perfect!) recon through chat channels, an invincible and unstoppable police force... EVE might be "harsh and cold" compared to WoW but it's still pretty damn warm and fuzzy.
The death penalty is only a single piece of the issue.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Sereifex Daku
Intergalactic Squad
Celestial Frontier
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ilvan
Gimme a break. Insurance, free (perfect!) recon through chat channels, an invincible and unstoppable police force... EVE might be "harsh and cold" compared to WoW but it's still pretty damn warm and fuzzy.
The death penalty is only a single piece of the issue.
Agreed, EvE is a very harsh game compared to the *press number keys to win* mmorpgs out there, but compared to how EVE used to be, the game is quite easy nowadays.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
Very wrong on this one though.
If you're thining about suicide gankers then yes, insurance needs to be void, but if they don't get anything they sure lose (time+money).
Eve is hands down the game with the harshest death penalties.
Unless all you do is throw up trial accounts and suicide in your thrasher ofc
Boink! |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
Never lost an expensive, tricked out ship, followed shortly by your implants to a single mistake? If you have and still don't think it's harsh, kudos.
-
Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Nilth Ra
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:02:00 -
[19]
Quote:
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
I totally agree. In my opinion this is by far one of the worst aspects of EvE (after lag, of course^^)
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Xyn Rhais
Tessaract
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:03:00 -
[20]
You forgot the biggest of them all, clones.
Why the hell do you get to store all your skills in a clone, what kind of carebear game is this ? Or if you die without a clone updated, shouldn't your sp drop to 900000 ?
Better yet, there should be permadeath. That's HARDCORE.
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:14:00 -
[21]
Just waiting for a more "hardcore" pvp oriented game to come out, tbh. A lot of things such as sec status mechanics, missions, the safe haven of highsec space with it's risk-free money printing, etc etc just don't appeal to me.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:26:00 -
[22]
1) If there was a reasonable way to get rid of alts, I would support it. But I'd go further than "1 character per account"; it should be "1 character per player. If you want to discard your character to create a new one, this should be fine, but it's the additional accounts used for scouting, etc, that is the problem.
2) There will always be an "easiest way to make isk". Ratting comes to mind as another very easy way to make isk.
3) Local is what it is. If there was no local, then there would need to be reasonable mechanism for detecting incoming enemies. Note that 'clicking on the directional scanner every few seconds' does not qualify as 'reasonable'. This would need to be something like a continuous, real-time, long-range scanners that showed incoming ships (including ID)within scan distance.
4) Insurance should to be changed to be invalidated by illegal acts (suicide ganking, piracy, etc) -- and possibly acts of war, as well (any losses to a war target). Otherwise, it's a useful mechanic in that it reduces the death penalty for low-end players (to one-third of the cost of the ship instead of the full value) and is effectively phased out for more advanced players (who fly uninsurable T2/faction ships or T1 ships filled with uninsurable T2/faction modules).
5) As you said, WTZ is better than the former BM-based system, and infinitely less tedious than a BM-free system, as well. A well-prepared gate defense should be able to catch anything larger than pods, shuttles, and most frigates -- and small ships should be feasible as scouts, in any case.
Add to your list the laughable implementaion of kill rights for theft or other aggression (15 minutes?! C'mon!) and the inability of law-abiding pilots to go after criminals. There should be mechanisms for meaningful player-based repercussions to criminal acts.
--
Becq Starforged
proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
I agree with all of the OP's points.
2) It makes sense to have no level 4s in high sec. They are very hard to do on one's own, so if you are missioning with friends then why fear pirates? If you have skill then you should hardly ever get caught.
How do you figure that they are "very hard to do on one's own?"
Seriously, don't post on things in which you have no clue.
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Terail Zoqial
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:29:00 -
[24]
/me bangs head on desk
Gawd, can someone please whine about something new?
They should have called this game whine like a ***** online
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
I have lots of ISK, even more assets, 25m SP, lots of friends in game. Oh and bookmarks and cloaking ships.
Fine, go ahead and remove those things....
...I'm sure everyone else will find it as easy to succeed without those things as I did with them.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Just waiting for a more "hardcore" pvp oriented game to come out, tbh. A lot of things such as sec status mechanics, missions, the safe haven of highsec space with it's risk-free money printing, etc etc just don't appeal to me.
You will probably be waiting a long time. There is a good reason why games like WoW and less "harsh" games do well and sell tons of subs.
To illustrate my point, I hear that "Pirates of the Burning Seas" can be pretty rough on non-pvpers but after the finding this out, people left in droves and all that is left of the playerbase are the gankers.
I also don't understand why you are so worried about what people are doing in high sec. You sound like a little kid who's next door friend's family got a swimming pool and you are mad and whining because your friend is swimming instead of playing baseball with you.
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Sereifex Daku
Intergalactic Squad
Celestial Frontier
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
How do you figure that they are "very hard to do on one's own?"
Seriously, don't post on things in which you have no clue.
You may ask me how I have come to this conclusion, but only an arrogant **** would assume that I know little about this. Level 4 missions are somewhat difficult for the majority of players. That is what I have learnt from talking to many players, as well as doing them myself. It is, I assume, because of this that I have encountered a lot of people who do level 4s with others.
So, if you are missioning with others then you shouldn't complain if these missions were to be moved to low sec.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:22:00 -
[28]
Alts are practically mandatory.
The alt to check if you're jumping into a station camp
The alt to see what's outside the station since you don't have windows
The alt to put up a cyno field
The alt to check prices in a different region
The alt to do POS logistics
The alt to experience a part of the game your main couldn't experience without 5 more years of training
There are all kinds of ways in which alts are encouraged. Then of course they also do things like let you haul stuff for your pirate chars or scoop loot after a suicide attack.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:24:00 -
[29]
Quote:
So, if you are missioning with others then you shouldn't complain if these missions were to be moved to low sec.
That's some ******** reasoning. Many people don't do 4's with others.
Level 5's are already in low sec and are meant to be done in groups. If you want groups of missioners in low sec ask for those to be boosted.
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Benco97
Exchangable Properties
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ulstan
Alts are practically mandatory.
The alt to check if you're jumping into a station camp
The alt to see what's outside the station since you don't have windows
The alt to put up a cyno field
The alt to check prices in a different region
The alt to do POS logistics
The alt to experience a part of the game your main couldn't experience without 5 more years of training
None of these things need an alt. They just need the player to "man up" and do it alone or get a friend.
All reasons for alts can be boiled down to people wanting things now now now faster faster faster more more more.
Originally by: Kirjava
This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:33:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
Originally by: Hasak Rain
How do you figure that they are "very hard to do on one's own?"
Seriously, don't post on things in which you have no clue.
You may ask me how I have come to this conclusion, but only an arrogant **** would assume that I know little about this. Level 4 missions are somewhat difficult for the majority of players. That is what I have learnt from talking to many players, as well as doing them myself. It is, I assume, because of this that I have encountered a lot of people who do level 4s with others.
So, if you are missioning with others then you shouldn't complain if these missions were to be moved to low sec.
No sorry but they are not difficult unless you are a new player just now making the transition from lvl 3's to 4's and don't know what to expect or are just now getting the skills to fly a Battleship. Yes, they would be difficult to anyone under 5-10 million SPs depending on where those pts are spent.
The only lvl 4's which are even remotely difficult are Worlds Collide and The Blockade and even those are easy once you learn the tricks.
I do all lvl4's solo in a T2 fitted Raven or Geddon. No Faction equipment whatsoever. Hell, I don't even have T2 guns or Launchers for either ship as I am really a Minni pilot.
If you fly into one with a bad fit or have no clue to what you are doing or no beforehand kwowledge of the missions, then yeah, they will be hard. Just like anything else in this game, you have to prepare and know what you are doing.
Regardless, Go to the Mission board and tell everyone how they are too difficult to solo so I can watch 100 people laugh at you. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
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Pan Crastus
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:39:00 -
[32]
Insurance has to go really... It mostly benefits suicide gankers, real PVPers use T2 ships / rigs / costly fittings anyway.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Sereifex Daku
Intergalactic Squad
Celestial Frontier
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:39:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 26/03/2008 01:40:01
Originally by: Hasak Rain
No sorry but they are not difficult unless you are a new player just now making the transition from lvl 3's to 4's and don't know what to expect or are just now getting the skills to fly a Battleship. Yes, they would be difficult to anyone under 5-10 million SPs depending on where those pts are spent.
The only lvl 4's which are even remotely difficult are Worlds Collide and The Blockade and even those are easy once you learn the tricks.
I do all lvl4's solo in a T2 fitted Raven or Geddon. No Faction equipment whatsoever. Hell, I don't even have T2 guns or Launchers for either ship as I am really a Minni pilot.
If you fly into one with a bad fit or have no clue to what you are doing or no beforehand kwowledge of the missions, then yeah, they will be hard. Just like anything else in this game, you have to prepare and know what you are doing.
Regardless, Go to the Mission board and tell everyone how they are too difficult to solo so I can watch 100 people laugh at you. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Fair enough. I only do missions every now and then, so I conceed that you are right on this point.
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Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:47:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 26/03/2008 01:40:01
Originally by: Hasak Rain
No sorry but they are not difficult unless you are a new player just now making the transition from lvl 3's to 4's and don't know what to expect or are just now getting the skills to fly a Battleship. Yes, they would be difficult to anyone under 5-10 million SPs depending on where those pts are spent.
The only lvl 4's which are even remotely difficult are Worlds Collide and The Blockade and even those are easy once you learn the tricks.
I do all lvl4's solo in a T2 fitted Raven or Geddon. No Faction equipment whatsoever. Hell, I don't even have T2 guns or Launchers for either ship as I am really a Minni pilot.
If you fly into one with a bad fit or have no clue to what you are doing or no beforehand kwowledge of the missions, then yeah, they will be hard. Just like anything else in this game, you have to prepare and know what you are doing.
Regardless, Go to the Mission board and tell everyone how they are too difficult to solo so I can watch 100 people laugh at you. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Fair enough. I only do missions every now and then, so I conceed that you are right on this point.
Well you are the first person here to ever admit I am right about anything. 
I apologize for sounding so gruff. It is just that you never really know what someone's agenda is when they post something and your post just sounded like propaganda to send lvl4's into Low sec. If that was your intent, you would have a better argument mentioning how much easy isk is made off of them.
If mission running didn't bore me to tears, i would probably be a trillionare in this game but I can never stomach doing more than a couple a day when I do them.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.26 02:04:00 -
[35]
1) Alts.
I hate the presence of alts, but I finally gave in and got myself one a few months ago. The problem is that having an alt in EVE simply provides so much benefit that it pays for itself and opens up a lot of options. Cyno's, supercapitals, and outlaws being locked out of the market hubs would be my top three reasons on why they might be almost mandatory for some players.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
Trade. 
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
Coming soon I hear.
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists.
So that people don't quit before they learn how to make at least a couple hundred mill a week.
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape.
I'm a big fan of WTZ, it's sadly made EVE a lot smaller but it's also made a lot less dull. I also recall having more bookmarks than there could ever be considered healthy for the game.
OP has made a very good point, EVE is colder, darker, and more brutal than most on-line games but it is not some mystical realm of hardcore leetness that some players think it should be. Why? Because it's a game and it's a business.
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Sereifex Daku
Intergalactic Squad
Celestial Frontier
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Posted - 2008.03.26 02:26:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 26/03/2008 02:27:12
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
OP has made a very good point, EVE is colder, darker, and more brutal than most on-line games but it is not some mystical realm of hardcore leetness that some players think it should be. Why? Because it's a game and it's a business.
Sure, but wasn't the game a lot more unforgiving when it first came out? Did the game crash and burn, leaving CCP penniless?
I hear this argument far too often these days, and I believe that CCP has always been successful by doing the opposite to other companies. Any member of the oh so hated marketing department would tell any company to make a game based on wizards and goblins! Won't that be fun...Instead, CCP made EVE, a game about spaceships, a realistic game that encourages people to feel adrenaline when their ship is in danger. CCP is losing that particular edge imo. EVE is far too stable and predictable now.
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Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
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Posted - 2008.03.26 02:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
It is a shame ccp went the carebear way imho.
u are da man, fix this and I will love ccp again
Greetings Grim |
Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 02:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
Says the 2 year newbcorp character with no standings to speak of...
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couger malthas
LEGI0N
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 03:20:00 -
[39]
Edited by: couger malthas on 26/03/2008 03:21:36
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
FFS stop your crying, thats all i hear on the forums now is a buch of children crying because its not what they want... i started in second gen, and alot has changed since then, you know what i did? I changed with it... i got over it, i learnt to deal with it. So i got a plan for you there grow up, shut up or GTFO.
and Insurance is a good idea, its like buying a car, crap happens you need the little bit of help to pay the dmg off.
_______________________________________________
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Faife
Blackrain Solutions
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.26 04:50:00 -
[40]
Fix 0.0, remove all clones. You die, you reroll
Or wait, you mean "make the game hard for everyone else" again, m'bad.
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Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.26 06:05:00 -
[41]
First point is main 'harsh cold universe breaker', rest of the points are just pebbles next to mountain.
So alt's eh? Main point why they break the 'cold and harsh' part is that you can use them to avoid results of your actions. Using them to scam, haul your stuff during wars or into low sec if you are outlaw, post smack and flames in forums, suicide scouts and so on.
As long as it is possible to avoid results of your actions it's going to be soft and pink and with padded walls.
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Victor Forge
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.26 07:45:00 -
[42]
1. Agree, remove alts already!
2. Move out lvl 4 and casual players and PvE players will do lvl 3s in high-sec instead and complain that the game is a damn grind comparable with Linage 2. If anything this will mean fewer will go to low-sec since it will take longer time to replace ships lost in PvP.
3. Agree. Remove local chat.
4. WoW has a free 100% insurance for being killed in pvp. Meaning they can be killed dozens of times every hour in battlegrounds etc and can pvp for weeks before they need to farm anything for an hour to replace ammo etc. Insurance in EvE is somewhat odd, it is making it pointless to stop bots in Industrial ships doing lvl 4 quality 20 trading missions 23/7 in low-sec, they will lose nothing of being destroyed or even podded.
However how much do one get back of losing a fully T2 fitted Sacriligie? Not much. You have just insured the T1 hull of a Maller. Meaning that pirates using such ships only attacks when they are 100% sure they will win. In the end encouraging Gatecamping and blobs, since that will decrease the risk.
Imagine what will happen with no insurance at all.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.26 07:50:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 26/03/2008 07:50:27
Originally by: Benco97
My personal feelings on your points are as follows:
3) I agree, something should be done really, local is a powerful intel tool.
5) I was much happier with eve before WTZ was introduced, I've not lost a ship ONCE to pirates since WTZ.
me either. It's silly really. If you fit for travel and have any sense whatsoever the chances of you dying in low-sec are incredibly low.
oh and QFT^
...
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Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:50:00 -
[44]
Really, those ideas must not be handled black and white. The 2 concerning me in particular are alts and local.
I understand that it would limit too much, if one can only have one character per account. And basically, i don't see a problem with having the ability to create 3 or more caracters. The point with alts is their disguise. Possible options could be, that one has to choose a main, and if you click on "show info" on any non main char, u should see that. Problem solved.
Local is a bit harder, as u can't simply remove it. Possible options could be, that one can chose to apear in local or not, but being always visible in constelation. If he's not in local, he obviously shouldn't be able to read or write. Probably there should be kind of station/agent service to check local .. or check recent stargate activity like who jumped in and out in the last 10 - 60 minutes fe. The only problem i see there is, without local one may just undock into a fleet of hostiles hanging in front of the station. Imho this would be stupid, as no one would undock if he can see the ships hanging in front of it by simply looking through the window. Yeah, a station service to check jump in/out systems and scan the starbase surrounding like at least 500km could do the trick. And cloacked ships shouldn't appear on the starbase scan 
Changing local would really be my main request for a change in EvE, as i see it the main reason why people avoid fights with even or bad odds, resulting in a lot of waiting outside system. Also having hostiles only in constelation would add a lot of new tactical options.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.03.26 08:58:00 -
[45]
The problem with alts isn't having more than one character per account (because you can't play them - or even train them - at the same time), it's the fact that having two or more accounts grants a huge advantage in just about every aspect of the game.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Arakidias
Murky Inc.
G Thanks Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 09:20:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ilvan
The problem with alts isn't having more than one character per account (because you can't play them - or even train them - at the same time), it's the fact that having two or more accounts grants a huge advantage in just about every aspect of the game.
The problem is that it also gives a huge income boost to ccp :)
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Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:03:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Arakidias
Originally by: Ilvan
The problem with alts isn't having more than one character per account (because you can't play them - or even train them - at the same time), it's the fact that having two or more accounts grants a huge advantage in just about every aspect of the game.
The problem is that it also gives a huge income boost to ccp :)
I would not have big objections if all my characters over all my accounts would be condensed into one supercharacter altho it would rise slight problems about what to do with say 3 sets of caldary battleship lev 5 for example. Ofc it would be uncomfortable as between 4 accounts I have total 10 character (most of em just out of box lab alts with week of training running 9 labslots each).
It would create some really 'super' characters tho. Imagine a character you get by merging say 4 x 70 mil chars over one user accounts :)
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Liu
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 10:10:00 -
[48]
i agree with all the points, except warp to zero. i can't believe how with the technology present ingame, ships are unable to warp as close to the gate as they want. so, for me, WTZ is a good thing
about insurance, i think that like on real life, it should be voided by ilegal acts. it is stupid that high sec suicides get 90% of their ship value back. but regular deaths (on missions, "when you are working for the government", i believe the insurance is ok)
Originally by: Apertotes
tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Roxanna Kell
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:22:00 -
[49]
You all just say i agree, wow. whatever. Besides asking for Constellation means that you can spot your enemy further away, if you remove local, it means you remove local.
No alternatives.
As for eve is a cold dark place, Thats just advertisment for you, you ve been misslead by more than just ccp marketing team.
Quote:
You are what you are, fool
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
Well, people use alts to escape from ******** mechanics. I know I have a hauling alt / selling alt (both 800K SP, pure win) to be able to actually, you know, play the game (mostly) solo. I still have to harrass other people to haul me ships. I'd fully support their removal, but some mechanics are a bit too idiotic and need changing.
At any rate, multi-accounting is even more annoying, there's already a ton of people with falcon alts and crap.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Insurance has to go really... It mostly benefits suicide gankers, real PVPers use T2 ships / rigs / costly fittings anyway.
Ha ha, nonsense.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Iain Cubair
Gattaca Co
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
Trade.
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Burnharder
Tiny Industries
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 11:08:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
Well yes, but when you have "Uber" gate-camping mechanics, alts and meta-gaming become necessary for travel, particularly in certain ship classes.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
My guess is a large proportion of people doing Level 4's in high-sec are mission alts of PvP'ers. They need to quickly pay to replace stuff lost in combat and this is one of the ways they do it.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
Again, huge thread on this recently. My personal opinion is that removing it is fine as long as you can balance it properly. I think the social aspect of the game would be nerfed quite a bit if you did so though.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
Agreed. I don't like it either. It's particularly useless for T2 stuff, which I mainly fly and doesn't cover mods, which are often more expensive than the ship.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Agreed, I supported WTZ as well. It's done wonders for my will to live when playing Eve.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
It's said to be "cold, dark and harsh" only because it encourages a lot of ass-hattery (and therefore attracts those kinds of players) without consequences.
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Kharadran Sullath
Noir.
Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:58:00 -
[54]
1) 1 character per account? To what end? If alts are to be of any use they have to be on a second account. So, what exactly would that solve again?
2) Step 1. Join corp in alliance with safe 0.0 space. Step 2. Rat for 50-60mil/h.
3) Agreed. 100%.
4) It may need some alteration, but I don't see the point as it is now.
5) Camp both sides of the gate. Too bad for pirates camping in lowsec/highsec border systems. But they could always camp both gates in a border system.
Logoffski also needs a serious nerf. Worst, mechanic, ever. Make a logoff timer starting after you've entered pvp combat like every other good mmo has.
------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan
I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Noxic
The Exotic Brothel
The Red Light District
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:13:00 -
[55]
CCP = COD
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Cyberman Mastermind
Omega and Alpha
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:48:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 26/03/2008 13:48:59
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
5) WTZ has destroyed my perception of the EVE universe. It used to feel good playing in a vast universe. Now it jsut feels as small as Azeroth.
Out of curiosity, how often do you leave your home system, what was the largest distanced travelled?
If I'd be to guess, I'd say once a month and perhaps 3 jumps.
If WTZ really destroyed your perception of the Eve universe, I suggest doing extensive travels - something like 10 to 20 jumps - ideally in a freighter, so you'll learn to appreciate the benefit of WTZ in regard to travel time.
But perhaps you simply don't value your time, and don't mind waiting mindlessly? |
Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:51:00 -
[57]
Nah mechanically eve is not harsh.
Just slow and boring at times.
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Bklyn 1
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
Well, people use alts to escape from ******** mechanics. I know I have a hauling alt / selling alt (both 800K SP, pure win) to be able to actually, you know, play the game (mostly) solo. I still have to harrass other people to haul me ships. I'd fully support their removal, but some mechanics are a bit too idiotic and need changing.
At any rate, multi-accounting is even more annoying, there's already a ton of people with falcon alts and crap.
Even if faction navies are a crappy game mechanic (midsec is much needed) removing alts completely would majorly improve piracy , in many ways. Eve's failure as a social game is twofolds : overly profitable highsec life , and easy autonomous lowsec life.
The reason the fracture between carebears and pirates is so large is that neither party directly needs the other to survive. Carebears just keep running missions in highsec , free of worries (until they fall prey to highsec piracy mechanics) and pirates can shoot each other if there's nothing else to do. Without alts , it wouldn't be possible to survive as an outlaw without making money from piracy. Currently , lots of people who treat lowsec as a pvp arena do.
The current game balance does nothing to encourage cooperation between industrialist and combat specialized players in empire. Piracy loses its meaning as its focus shifts from stealing to killing.
If I want a battleship moved to lowsec , I have to pay at least 5m to a reliable third party to get it delivered. With alts , it is free of charge - autopilot to last highsec , scout for your own alt , board ship with main. Yellow friends are not of any use to a pure outlaw corp , they offer nothing alts can't do.
Industrialists offering to build ships for us in exchange for standings ? Nope , we got our own production alts. Researchers offering free BPCs if we stop shooting their research POS ? Nope , we got our own research alts. Day old newbie impressed by our corp , wanting to help but not even combat capable ? Right , we prefer to use our scout alts. Turncoat in an antipirate corp contacting us ? Who cares , we already have a spy alt there.
CCP failed to protect Eve's RP background , so the game's depth is half of what it could be. Alts shortcircuit half of the needs for interaction in the game. Removing them would go a long way to fix long time issues like bounties , being unable to pod yourself surely makes a large bounty much more significant and trust (with friends and corpmates) much more valuable.
I'm an altless outlaw , my game experience is as hardcore as its gets in Eve. Still I'm not satisfied with the challenge - so make the game harder for me and more involving for everyone.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
edit: Wow, that was unpleasant, I felt pity for someone. Won't happen again.
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Sereifex Daku
Intergalactic Squad
Celestial Frontier
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:58:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 26/03/2008 13:48:59
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
5) WTZ has destroyed my perception of the EVE universe. It used to feel good playing in a vast universe. Now it jsut feels as small as Azeroth.
Out of curiosity, how often do you leave your home system, what was the largest distanced travelled?
If I'd be to guess, I'd say once a month and perhaps 3 jumps.
If WTZ really destroyed your perception of the Eve universe, I suggest doing extensive travels - something like 10 to 20 jumps - ideally in a freighter, so you'll learn to appreciate the benefit of WTZ in regard to travel time.
But perhaps you simply don't value your time, and don't mind waiting mindlessly?
I don't really have a home system. I jump about all over the place. I used to find it fun, now it feels like opening the map in Guild Wars and insta-teleporting to wherever I click on.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Iain Cubair
Originally by: Bklyn 1
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
Trade.
To earn any decent amount of ISK from Trading usually involves taking huge economical risks that may or may not pay off, so is generally a lot 'riskier' than most would think.
...
|
Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:05:00 -
[61]
Quote:
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
Umm... What?
Have you played wow? Stop posting.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Nyabinghi
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:05:00 -
[62]
Quote:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
If there was one colossal mistake CCP made in the initial development of EVE is allowing alts on the same server as their mains. All games have rules in order to function as a game. If you allow people to circumvent the rules the game breaks down to the point of being unplayable. CCP can apply all the small fixes they want, patch the tire a million times, but sometimes the simplest solution is the best one, change the tire.
***
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Ace Frehley
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:15:00 -
[63]
If you fly t2 ships, the insurence is pretty useless. So for newer players who fly t1, insurence is good.
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Annaphera
The Green Machine
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:39:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
First, I get to stand around and laugh when you try to go through a gate without a scout and get ganked. On a more serious note, removing alts on the same account is useless when only one character per account can train skills; removing multiple accounts would not only be very difficult (How do you prove two accounts are the same person?), financially harmful to CCP, but also ultimately pointless in game where eventually every character can have every skill anyway. Using disposable alts to get around sec loss is already considered an exploit...I think that's enough.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
Trade, null sec mining, low sec hauler ganking, insurance fraud, high sec mining, exploration, owning a T2 BPO, owning a well-researched large T1 ship BPO, invention...do I need to go on? It all depends on your definition of "easier" and "with less effort". Many of the above are even safer...want to nerf the lot?
Originally by: Bklyn 1
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
With some provision made for allowing people to defend themselves somehow, I'd agree. As it is, however, local is also the main defense miners have from suicide gankers - without it, they would be effectively sitting ducks. You notice that the Jihad still managed to nail 800 or so exhumers, even with local?
Originally by: Bklyn 1
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
Payouts on suicide ships need to be removed. Otherwise, insurance provides some means for newbies to replace a lost ship. Those that fly T2 ships aren't really covered, nor are the faction fittings on the ships the mission runners end up in. I think insurance is working just fine.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Apparently they can, since high sec gate camping is alive and well, and it is by far the hardest form of camping. I sense the whine of a camper who sees all the smart people with high-value goods getting by him, while he's left preying on the less common morons with high-value goods. Thy tears are sweet indeed...
Originally by: Bklyn 1
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
Well, Ctrl+Q as a defence I'm not too keen on, but if you can't see the 'cold, dark, harsh' part of EVE, you've been sitting in a station knitting, or not playing the same game I am.
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Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:43:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Iain Cubair
Originally by: Bklyn 1
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
Trade.
And high sec ganking.
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Gimpb
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 18:28:00 -
[66]
It might not be all that rough but it's harsh compared to the other MMOs I've played.
Although when I played the beta, jumpgate's pvp could be pretty harsh and you couldn't warp away to safety.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Ulstan
Alts are practically mandatory.
The alt to check if you're jumping into a station camp
The alt to see what's outside the station since you don't have windows
The alt to put up a cyno field
The alt to check prices in a different region
The alt to do POS logistics
The alt to experience a part of the game your main couldn't experience without 5 more years of training
None of these things need an alt. They just need the player to "man up" and do it alone
Read. Think. THEN post. You fail.
I'd love to see you open a cyno alone.
Every activity you can't do on your own with one account is CCP practically begging you to open another alt account so you *can* do it. See the repeated power of two ads.
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:07:00 -
[68]
you know what would be hardcore?
110 volt 1 second electric shock for every time you lose a ship.
And when you get podded, your PC motherboard gets fried.
Imagine what combat would mean then! I'd still pvp, just much more carefully
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Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:07:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: Benco97
None of these things need an alt. They just need the player to "man up" and do it alone
Read. Think. THEN post. You fail.
I'd love to see you open a cyno alone.
Every activity you can't do on your own with one account is CCP practically begging you to open another alt account so you *can* do it. See the repeated power of two ads.
Or get a friend.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:14:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Or get a friend.
Boring and oft repeated activities that require a friend = deliberate appeal to alts.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:16:00 -
[71]
Quote:
To earn any decent amount of ISK from Trading usually involves taking huge economical risks that may or may not pay off, so is generally a lot 'riskier' than most would think.
You can make tons of money trading without even leaving your station, with virtually no risk whatsoever.
The only risk to major financial loss is if you're engaged in long term market manipulation or speculation.
Is a risk that can be completely eliminated through planning and intelligence really a risk?
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Bklyn 1
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.26 20:54:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Bklyn 1 on 26/03/2008 21:04:29
Originally by: Dahak2150
Originally by: Bklyn 1
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
Says the 2 year newbcorp character with no standings to speak of...
Quite true. But that doesn't make it right. FYI, I've never logged this character in since he was first created and I'm posting with him so as not to offend those that know the real me (and use all these things that make Eve NOT a cold, harsh place).
Nonetheless, I would be the first to sign off on getting rid of alts, not that they would ever do that.
In any event, I do not fault players from using these mechanics if they are available. Just stop pretending that Eve is so cold and harsh because it's not. Colder and harsher than any other game? To my experience, yes (and yes, I did try WOW, but just for a short time, on the recommendation of some friends who were playing it, and quickly realized the error of my ways).
But people like to throw around this cold, harsh phrase to justify buffoonery and pretend that they are so leet. It's only cold and harsh when it is the other guy complaining about something. That is just silly.
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Djinn Phluxx
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.27 03:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
4) WOW does not have this because you dont loose anything when you die otherwise I can understand the other points.
You do take damage to your gear, though, and there's no way to insure against that. For the average player that doesn't have 40man raid teams in his/her pocket, even cloth repair adds up fast.
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Sybbiana Dawning
The Draconian Legacy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 04:45:00 -
[74]
Well, for what its worth, I actually use my character slots for actual characters. I'm not consumed with maximizing every single millisecond of training time to make some super uber character. I enjoy having several characters with distinct personalities and specializations. So, I'm rather against removing the ability to create additional characters as well as marking other characters on an account as an alt. Besides, we all seem pretty capable of spotting an alt anyway, right?
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nihlanth
Nut House
Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.03.27 04:59:00 -
[75]
Do you know what else is a cold, dark, harsh place?
...You don't want to to know.
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Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 05:01:00 -
[76]
Originally by: nihlanth
Do you know what else is a cold, dark, harsh place?
...You don't want to to know.
is it an alliance with a photoshopped tiger as a logo?
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nihlanth
Nut House
Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.03.27 05:05:00 -
[77]
Edited by: nihlanth on 27/03/2008 05:06:12
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: nihlanth
Do you know what else is a cold, dark, harsh place?
...You don't want to to know.
is it an alliance with a photoshopped tiger as a logo?
Hmmm, I didn't even realize that was a tiger, let alone any sort of tangible person, place or thing. Thought it was a new form of abstract art? 
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Tecknoblaze
An Eye For An Eye
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.03.27 05:07:00 -
[78]
I have to agree with the OP. EVE seems to have gotten a lot more newb friendly with all the welcome help pages and whatnot as well.
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Yarp! |
Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 05:10:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tecknoblaze
I have to agree with the OP. EVE seems to have gotten a lot more newb friendly with all the welcome help pages and whatnot as well.
Noobs are good
Motsu communes are bad
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Shakuul
O RLY corp
YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 07:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
1) That wouldn't matter, since you could multi account.
2) Yes, trading.
3) Good point.
4) Replacing your ship is a much bigger hassle than ghostwalking in WoW, but yeah insurance is excessive.
5) WTZ was added mostly because of bookmarks...also because travelling blows. If you want to stop them get a bubble or a scram.
If you really wanted to make it hardcore, remove clones.
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Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 08:11:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Shakuul
5) WTZ was added mostly because of bookmarks...also because travelling blows. If you want to stop them get a bubble or a scram.
If you really wanted to make it hardcore, remove clones.
1.Shuttles, and agility fitted ships in highsec
2. WTZ was added because of bookmarks only
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Kyra Felann
Noir.
Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.27 08:36:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ulstan
Alts are practically mandatory.
The alt to check if you're jumping into a station camp
The alt to see what's outside the station since you don't have windows
The alt to put up a cyno field
The alt to check prices in a different region
The alt to do POS logistics
The alt to experience a part of the game your main couldn't experience without 5 more years of training
There are all kinds of ways in which alts are encouraged. Then of course they also do things like let you haul stuff for your pirate chars or scoop loot after a suicide attack.
Eve is not a single-player game. None of those things need alts. What do you think corporations are for?
I only have one character and I have no alts and somehow I've managed.
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Mika Meroko
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:01:00 -
[83]
1) so... what about the people with 3+ accounts? (most ppl I know who are past half a year and hooked on eve have atleast 2....)
2) Scamming, 0.0 ratting... *used to go semi afk ratting while looking up girly pictures too... but requires you to be an alliance slave. And.. yeah, importing Mining barges BPOS... some people would pay abit *granted, market is over saturated now* to get the bpos into high sec. oh, and yeah, I made more money manufacturing/playing the market than I do missioning..*hell, I havnt shot at any npc in a long time on my main...oh.. and T2 materials are HOT right now..*well, hotter a month or so ago....processed materials are GREAT isk...
3) yeah, no arguments there...
4) We USED to NOT have insurance when eve started.. but back then, nobody wants to pew pew as much (too expensive)... so, insurance was added to soften the blow... and helps facilitate pew pew (that was before T2 stuff was introduced...)
5) meh, you can still kill them on the other side of the gate... =P in fact, WTZ creates a false sense of security =P..
6) meh, is all marketing jorgan... advertising... thats all... but is cold... and dark in certain regions =P... the harsh part is provided by all the gankbears... =P
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Primnproper
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:39:00 -
[84]
My alts are merely my mains slaves so whats not dark and brutal about that.
For instance this slave is made to post my opinions on the forum because my employers have a policy against posting here
Though my favourite slave is my minmatar slave, i often make her perform acts of piracy within her races space, thus earning me money, making her feel dirty inside for attacking her own race and lowering her races opinion of her to the point where she isn't allowed in their most secure systems, of course she's not to happy about this but thats whats the vitocs for |
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