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Suicide Ganking- When is it getting out of hand?

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Kaathar Rielspar Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:22:00 - [31] Originally by: fkingfurious ...and i know the exact setup... care to elaborate? ____________________
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:24:00 - [32] Edited by: Doc Fury on 26/03/2008 00:25:55 Originally by: Shadow Joy Originally by: Roy Batty68 ... I've thought before that it might be a fairly lucrative scam to setup people for suicide ganks by baiting with an expensive mod. Watch the wallet flash to grab the target. With luck you get paid for the item and get it back to sell again. ... That is both inspired and evil. Very nice. I have done this, and it works but you have to be really, really patient, and cannot always assume the player who bought the item will be the one picking it up. I managed once to resell the same item 3 times the same day. The DEVs are talking about making it possible to sell/trade kill rights, and if they implement that, a lot of the imbalance will get equaled out and ganking will have real consequences.
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:30:00 - [33] With my skills an unfitted Exequror aligns to warp in 6.5 seconds and has 5650 effective hitpoints vs lasers. A TII fitted Harbinger with my skills does 600 dps with guns and drones. 600x6.5 = 3900 I'd be interested in more details as to how (if) this ship actually died. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
fkingfurious State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Avon With my skills an unfitted Exequror aligns to warp in 6.5 seconds and has 5650 effective hitpoints vs lasers. A TII fitted Harbinger with my skills does 600 dps with guns and drones. 600x6.5 = 3900 I'd be interested in more details as to how (if) this ship actually died. Well, try fitting a warp disrupter for a start
Kaathar Rielspar Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:34:00 - [35] Mr Furious, please share the setup so we can see if the tank was at fault. ____________________
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:38:00 - [36] Originally by: Le Skunk Yawn. It amases me that noobs expect to have uber skills out of the box. WHATS THAT 0 OU HAVE TO DO SOME TRAINING TO HAVE A DECENT HAULER!!!! IM LEAVING THE BEUREU. 1) Do the haul in two or three trips. BUT I HAVENT GOT TIME FOR TWO TRIPS!!! I GET BORED!!!! tough ****. 2) Train some skills up maybee? Get in a tranpsort ship? Tank it up? These topics should be banned - you lot have been told time and tiem again how to haul safely. If you refuse to do it.... is this my fault? SKUNK Skunk... you have been trolled by obvioustroll. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:39:00 - [37] Originally by: fkingfurious Well, try fitting a warp disrupter for a start Even then you have to tank the sentry guns, and only have until Concord to turn up to complete the kill. If an untanked Exequror can last 9.4 second , and this one was even lightly tanked, I find the story unlikely - especially as the DPS figure includes drones. 1 Large shield Extender II 1 Invuln Field II 1 DCU II Those 3 mods I would consider a light buffer tank, and they put the survival figure at 24.4 seconds vs 600dps - longer than it takes Concord to respond. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:40:00 - [38] Originally by: fkingfurious Edited by: fkingfurious on 26/03/2008 00:22:58 Originally by: Roy Batty68 - Post her setup - Killmail would be nice (edit out names) to see amount being hauled - Being caught on warp out implies some forethought marking her ahead of time as the target... Did she AP to some gates giving someone a chance to cargo/ship scan? Had she just picked up an item from a contract or something expensive off of the market? I've thought before that it might be a fairly lucrative scam to setup people for suicide ganks by baiting with an expensive mod. Watch the wallet flash to grab the target. With luck you get paid for the item and get it back to sell again. Have never done it though. Just a passing theory. Anyway, I don't think anything is broke. I'm willing to bet the tank was subpar in comparison to the value being hauled... Exequerer for the fat cargo bay maybe? And btw, I'm also willing to bet that it was actually you popped considering the way you're raging about it. It wasnt me. I'm raging because it's an insulting game mechanic geared towards supporting what much of the Eve community views as the lowest form of pond-life and the victim in question is one of the nicest people ive known in the nearly 4 years ive been playing this game who took every reasonable precaution to avoid being ganked. Im not posting KM's because its bannable even with names edited out, and i don't know the exact setup. I dont knwo if she had been scanned beforehand, but i do not she had been warping to 0 for every jump. I'd be really interested to know just how many people who have replied to this think that this is an old issue actually. Suicide ganking, despite what many of the noobs who smear this place with their opinions appear to believe, is a NEW THING. In only the last 12 months its gone from the odd hauler carrying billions in faction loot get popped in 0.5, to faction fit BS in 0.5, and now apparently to tanked cruisers in 0.6 carrying loot worth barely twice as much as the aggressing ship. And if a single BC can do it fast enough in 0.6 then i GUARANTEE you that a suitably fit BS could do it 0.7. So where does it end? Calm Down CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
fkingfurious State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:41:00 - [39] Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar Mr Furious, please share the setup so we can see if the tank was at fault. I edited my post, it was typo on my part, i dont knwo the exact setup setup. All she said was that it was buffer shield tanked, and i havent seen the full killmail. It's academic anyway. Given that the ganker loses next to nothing for getting his ship destroyed, and further given that was only a BC, meaning he could easily uprate to say a Geddon and still have the same insurance blanket, im willing to bet there is almost nothing that could have kept that Exequerer alive if someone had marked it for death. In fact, following that same logic where multiplying you force doesnt multiply your risk because almost all loss WILL BE COVERED BY INSURANCE there is virtually nothing that could be done to keep any ship safe if it has been made the target of a suicide attack. Rather like real life in that respect.
Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:47:00 - [40] Edited by: Avon on 26/03/2008 00:47:31 Originally by: fkingfurious im willing to bet there is almost nothing that could have kept that Exequerer alive if someone had marked it for death. 1 invuln field II 3 large extender II 1 DCU II 2 PDU II Effective HPs > 34,000 Not even your hypothetical geddon is going to kill it before concord arrive (and certainly not a disposable T1 fit). Eve-Online: The Text Adventure

Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate deadspace society	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:47:00 - [41] The setup does matter. If you have the mindset that it's hopeless, of course you will fail. People who take reasonable precautions would simply not die to one battlecruiser. A properly tanked ship should, I believe, survive 2xBS. Above that, yes you are screwed, except for freighter + scout. So in summary - yes there is a suicide ganking problem, and no your corpmate is not one of the victims who has a valid complaint.
Kaathar Rielspar Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:49:00 - [42] Originally by: fkingfurious I edited my post, it was typo on my part, i dont knwo the exact setup setup. All she said was that it was buffer shield tanked, and i havent seen the full killmail. It's academic anyway. Given that the ganker loses next to nothing for getting his ship destroyed, and further given that was only a BC, meaning he could easily uprate to say a Geddon and still have the same insurance blanket, im willing to bet there is almost nothing that could have kept that Exequerer alive if someone had marked it for death. In fact, following that same logic where multiplying you force doesnt multiply your risk because almost all loss WILL BE COVERED BY INSURANCE there is virtually nothing that could be done to keep any ship safe if it has been made the target of a suicide attack. Rather like real life in that respect. Given your apparent lack of desire to continue this topic in a meaningful way by discussing the setup then I shall bid you well with your ranting. As a parting shot i will say that the pimp setup i listed and using a Conflagration damage profile will survive vs a 1200 dps geddon (completely overestimated dps) for just over 38 seconds. Either you friend needs to wisen up and start fitting ships better or this is just an elaborate troll post. Good day. ____________________
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 26/03/2008 00:47:31 Originally by: fkingfurious im willing to bet there is almost nothing that could have kept that Exequerer alive if someone had marked it for death. 1 invuln field II 3 large extender II 1 DCU II 2 PDU II Effective HPs > 34,000 Not even your hypothetical geddon is going to kill it before concord arrive (and certainly not a disposable T1 fit). Next you'll say he shouldn't have been AFK autopiloting. Please be realistic. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar or this is just an elaborate troll post. ... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Zarda Sulan Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:12:00 - [45] Originally by: Le Skunk Yawn. It amases me that noobs expect to have uber skills out of the box. WHATS THAT 0 OU HAVE TO DO SOME TRAINING TO HAVE A DECENT HAULER!!!! IM LEAVING THE BEUREU. 1) Do the haul in two or three trips. BUT I HAVENT GOT TIME FOR TWO TRIPS!!! I GET BORED!!!! tough ****. 2) Train some skills up maybee? Get in a tranpsort ship? Tank it up? LOL ppl like you ruin it for everyone- shut up moron!!! These topics should be banned - you lot have been told time and tiem again how to haul safely. If you refuse to do it.... is this my fault? SKUNK Huh?
deepb Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:13:00 - [46] As it stands, a suicide ganker can easily make a very nice in-game living, free of almost any risk whatsoever. Think about it - they are going to be reimbursed for most of their ship(s) value no matter what, whether they destroy their target or not. Even if they are known suicide gankers, they are still protected by CONCORD up until they actually attack someone, so they don't have to worry about any sort of preemptive attack. They literally have almost nothing to lose, especially when you consider what they stand to gain. Now don't get me wrong.. the ability to suicide gank someone is critically important and should be left alone; however, that ability should be balanced with the total loss of whatever ships were used and eventually killed by CONCORD (i.e., no insurance payout). That would put the risk at more of an acceptable level, because unless the suicide gankers destroy their target and loot some pretty expensive gear, they've just lost quite a bit of ISK. A change like that would also force suicide gankers to think a lot harder about how many ships to use, etc, etc. It adds that dimension that is clearly missing today.
Archangel Raphael Army Of Angels	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:16:00 - [47] for a comprimise , just make it so that if you lose a insured ship to concord you only receive base payout (40%) i believe, this will still make it a viable tactic for genuine financial suiciders, and probably disuade the greifing suiciders
Ironshirt Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:22:00 - [48] Alternatively, make it so that theattacked ship drops nothing, and the VICTIM gets EVERYTHING back.
Chelone Stone Shadow Syndicate deadspace society	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Ironshirt Alternatively, make it so that theattacked ship drops nothing, and the VICTIM gets EVERYTHING back. If you want to go down that sarcastic road, how about just make it so bad people die in real life?
Corstaad Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:32:00 - [50] I think I'm going rat my arse off to suicide gank ships. I think every pvp type person can only dream of suiciding ships and ratting all day.



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