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Nephiam
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.27 08:58:00 -
[1]
With the latest Freighter Ganking in High sec, I vote that Concord be fired. they are inefficient and players an use multiple accounts to gank freighters in high sec and then pick up loot. High sec should be exactly that - safe. Although not personally involved in this - it now means one has to actively fly a slow-ass ship - which makes EVE booooring at best. SO either make a Freighter Gank free in High Sec i.e 30000000 armour points so it will take a ganker 2 days to kill it and use up all his created accounts and give POOR concord a chance to take them out OR give Concor the necessary Firepower to wipe the pirate from the skies. 
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:02:00 -
[2]
Just point me to the doughnuts and we can have this all fixed.
---
Join BH-DL
Skills |
Mika Meroko
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:04:00 -
[3]
highsec is not safe.. is Safer =P
heck, is even in the newbie guide somewhere =P
is safeR... not completely safe..
but I must admit.. freighters are fubared...
the only way not to get ganked is to not carry anything expensive...
*I use mine to haul T1 industrials =P ...
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Nephiam
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:06:00 -
[4]
Exactly my point - U can't organise a fleet op everytime you need to move stuff in empire.
OR allow Jump Freighters to enter High Sec
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:10:00 -
[5]
1. Give freighters 1 rig slot limited to anything but Astronautics rigs.
8. profit.
Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar? |
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Mika Meroko
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:10:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Nephiam
Exactly my point - U can't organise a fleet op everytime you need to move stuff in empire.
OR allow Jump Freighters to enter High Sec
The best way around it: haul at the weeee hours of the morning/night...
the time after server gone up from restart is a good time. most ganker arent that dedicated.
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Gamesguy
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nephiam
With the latest Freighter Ganking in High sec, I vote that Concord be fired. they are inefficient and players an use multiple accounts to gank freighters in high sec and then pick up loot. High sec should be exactly that - safe. Although not personally involved in this - it now means one has to actively fly a slow-ass ship - which makes EVE booooring at best. SO either make a Freighter Gank free in High Sec i.e 30000000 armour points so it will take a ganker 2 days to kill it and use up all his created accounts and give POOR concord a chance to take them out OR give Concor the necessary Firepower to wipe the pirate from the skies.
CCP completely disagrees with you.
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Mika Meroko
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gamesguy
CCP completely disagrees with you.
oooo you found the link!!! *I knew is in there somewhere!!!*
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Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:25:00 -
[9]
I don't think there is anything wrong with concorde, if anything they are a bit over powered.
However there is a serious problem with freighters, take tech 1 haulers for example, they generally don't get ganked when the carry a load of up to 50 times the value of the ship, much more in most cases.
But if a freighter carries more than the cost of the ship then it starts to become a target, which means there really is something wrong with that ship.
A solution would be that it comes with a damage control unit that can't be removed or it is given 1 slot where only a damage control unit may be fitted.
As it stands, if you fill a freighter with a low end mineral like Mexallon, the chances are you will be ganked, to be sure that you aren't ganked you would have to use under half it's capacity. Which makes a freighter kinda pointless unless you are just carrying trit.
Freighters definetly need to be looked at because as it stands even a bs can be fitted to tank as much as a freighter and that's just plain wrong.
.... sig goes here!
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Nephiam
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Gamesguy
CCP completely disagrees with you.
oooo you found the link!!! *I knew is in there somewhere!!!*
I have no problem with this - this makes sense BUT
There is no consequence for the 'kamikazee' pilot. The main account is safe (Picking up the loot) the Gankers are alts that are created - when sec status decreases - recycle - create new account. with the training as is now to created a noob account with skills to fly a cruiser and use missiles/guns is no effort at all. Only the wait period on the recycle bin.
So why not make the recycle time for a negative standing character - say 2 weeks? 
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Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nephiam
Exactly my point - U can't organise a fleet op everytime you need to move stuff in empire.
OR allow Jump Freighters to enter High Sec
Jump Freighters can enter High Sec, they are the only jump drive ship that can use gates.
.... sig goes here!
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Oftherocks
Of The Rocks Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Chribba
1. Give freighters 1 rig slot limited to anything but Astronautics rigs.
8. profit.
True... wait, what?
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Nephiam
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lucas Avignon
Originally by: Nephiam
Exactly my point - U can't organise a fleet op everytime you need to move stuff in empire.
OR allow Jump Freighters to enter High Sec
Jump Freighters can enter High Sec, they are the only jump drive ship that can use gates.
Nope, then u still have a Slow-ass ship that is just waaay more expensive and still can get ganked.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:51:00 -
[14]
I sense laughter.
---
Join BH-DL
Skills |
Gamesguy
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 09:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nephiam
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Gamesguy
CCP completely disagrees with you.
oooo you found the link!!! *I knew is in there somewhere!!!*
I have no problem with this - this makes sense BUT
There is no consequence for the 'kamikazee' pilot. The main account is safe (Picking up the loot) the Gankers are alts that are created - when sec status decreases - recycle - create new account. with the training as is now to created a noob account with skills to fly a cruiser and use missiles/guns is no effort at all. Only the wait period on the recycle bin.
So why not make the recycle time for a negative standing character - say 2 weeks?
Except recycling alts in this manner is considered an exploit, and if you suspect someone is doing it, report them.
Most suicide gankers gank with their main, not an alt.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.27 10:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nephiam
Exactly my point - U can't organise a fleet op everytime you need to move stuff in empire.
OR allow Jump Freighters to enter High Sec
Wait... so this means you can't move huge amounts of valuables in complete safety?! 
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Zuel Furion
Psychotic Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 11:02:00 -
[17]
Ganging in secure space.
1- It is anybodyĘs right to gang someone else in secure space.
2- There are already consequences to ganging someone in secure space, they blow up your ship.
3- The rewards received when ganging a faction fitted ship or highly valuable cargo ship is correct, the risk is also there, as it might or might not get destroyed.
4- You are supposed to fit your ship with a tank, thatĘs why CCP created slots and modules on ships.
My only problem/concern with all of this is not stopping ganging or the way it works, itĘs the in game mechanics of it all.
If I may be allowed to compare modern real life to the game I see a major flaw.
In the following links you will find some of IcelandĘs laws and policies.
a) Ministry of justice and ecclesiastical affairs / laws and regulations / Police Act no. 90 13th June 1996
http://eng.domsmalaraduneyti.is/laws-and-regulations/nr/120
Herein I would like to draw your attention to the following...Article 1.
ThatĘs the beginning and if you understand English, I am going to assume (how ever dangerous assumptions ever are) that you see that there is a defined policy for police in their duties.
I would like to either see Concords policies (as to crucify them on the lack of acting in their tasks) or have them rectify the lack of policies, and thus the current problem.
To add to this I have found the following link.
Also a company that operates within Iceland.
Budget Insurance.
http://www.budgetinsurance.com/exclusions.aspx
This link explains when an insurance company will NOT pay out on claims.
This is an international practice if I may be so bold as to state, that no insurance company worth their salt will pay out when damages are wilfully caused (as stated in the page).
They also talk a little in Exclusion 1 about I quote,
""...war... civil war, rebellion, revolution..." There are some perils, which are both very unlikely to occur, and of such a scale as to be beyond the means of any car insurance company."
It would be interesting to see what would happen if insurance was null and void if you declare war or are involved in a war....but this is another debate far to close to realism to get into now.
My conclusion, (I would have liked to say more to clarify, but this might already be too large a read)
If it was in anyway important to believe that a future world would survive and companies continue to generate money (isk in this case) then I for one would assume a somewhat more realistic approach would be taken within the game.
Thus....re-look at insurance payouts...and re-look at the actions concord take "After the fact" of an attack.
Time is a Human created measurement to best judge the distance between 2 Events.
- Zuel Furion
Thats why time slows down when nothing eventfull happens.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:05:00 -
[18]
Concord does not provide consequences.
What Concord does is make it so you need X amount of DPS to kill Y ship.
Just like in lowsec piracy you need X amount of tank to soak up gate guns.
It moves the equipment requirement of piracy from tank to gank.
What does this all mean?
It means Hisec = Lowsec with different equipment requirements to pirate a gate.
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Tuberider
Pothouse Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:14:00 -
[19]
oh what a shame i can't make isk for doin nothing except buying a freighter/goods then going afk for hours then re-selling it
i demand everyone take my stuff  oh wait they are allready
get real fly with a scout and actually play the game as intended not afk.
afk ftl
Can't afford the ransom ? We do accept poems in local for those short on isky, Subject of our choice |
Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gamesguy
CCP completely disagrees with you.
Of course. But...
Originally by: CCP
Fit to last
If you come under attack, more hitpoints and higher resistances can save your ship. The longer it takes to blow you up the likelier it becomes that Concord will bring down the attacker before he brings you down.
Correct me if I am wrong, but a freighter has NO fitting options. There seems to be an inconsistency here.
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Jack Jombardo
The Last Samurais
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Gamesguy
CCP completely disagrees with you.
oooo you found the link!!! *I knew is in there somewhere!!!*
Quote:
empire space is still relatively safe.
and that's absolut wrong. Atm it's sometimes saver to be in 0.0 or even lowsec as to be in highsec.
0.0 saver as highsec??? -> somethink went TOTALY wrong and MUST be changed!!!
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Gamesguy
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Gamesguy
CCP completely disagrees with you.
oooo you found the link!!! *I knew is in there somewhere!!!*
Quote:
empire space is still relatively safe.
and that's absolut wrong. Atm it's sometimes saver to be in 0.0 or even lowsec as to be in highsec.
0.0 saver as highsec??? -> somethink went TOTALY wrong and MUST be changed!!!
An outright lie. I can autopilot a battleship through highsec no problem, no one is gonna suicide gank me unless I'm fitting 10b in mods or something.
Why don't you try autopiloting through 0.0
Every ship you meet in highsec? The reason they're not dead is due to concord protection.
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Gamesguy
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:25:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 27/03/2008 12:26:14
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Correct me if I am wrong, but a freighter has NO fitting options. There seems to be an inconsistency here.
Freighter is a capital ship, capital ships aren't meant for the solo player.
Get a guy to scout and a guy to web you(alts will work too), done.
Quote:
If it was in anyway important to believe that a future world would survive and companies continue to generate money (isk in this case) then I for one would assume a somewhat more realistic approach would be taken within the game.
Ok, no ships can be insured except for haulers, and haulers can only be insured when they are heavilly escorted and only in highsec.
What you think any RL insurance company will insure a combat ship?
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Gamesguy
CCP completely disagrees with you.
oooo you found the link!!! *I knew is in there somewhere!!!*
Quote:
empire space is still relatively safe.
and that's absolut wrong. Atm it's sometimes saver to be in 0.0 or even lowsec as to be in highsec.
0.0 saver as highsec??? -> somethink went TOTALY wrong and MUST be changed!!!
What are you? Dishonest or just ignorant? Have you ever even been to 0.0?
Seriously, look at the most "dangerous" hi-sec systems. See all those pilots who are not blue to each other but not shooting each other even though they're right next to each other?
Well here's your clue-by-four, genius: in 0.0 they'd be shooting each other on sight.
If any 0.0 space is "safe" it is for one reason. Can you guess what it is?
Hint: it relates to the advice given to to people crying for CCP to protect them.
Can you guess what it is? Go on... have a try?
No?
OK, I'll tell you the BIG SECRET. Ready? Here it comes:
IT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE PROTECT THEMSELVES
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Adeptus mecanicus
The Flaming Sideburn's
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:28:00 -
[25]
well i dont see the problem from my view coz the only thing you have to do is to use convoy tactics,
scouts and protection fore the freighter(s) and have the defenders fit some remote shield/armour rep's to strengthen the tank.
Then you have made something as boring as freighter flying to a social event, that even can bring you some pew pew b4 the attackes gets concorded
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:40:00 -
[26]
Posting in the 14,567th with this very same topic.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Scout McAlt
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:44:00 -
[27]
I think what the OP should be saying is re-introducing risk for both sides. The freightor pilot has the risk, but the ganker does not due to insurance.
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Benco97
Exchangable Properties
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Posted - 2008.03.27 12:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lucas Avignon
As it stands, if you fill a freighter with a low end mineral like Mexallon, the chances are you will be ganked, to be sure that you aren't ganked you would have to use under half it's capacity. Which makes a freighter kinda pointless unless you are just carrying trit.
NEVER fill a freighter with Trit... HE will come..
Originally by: Kirjava
This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 13:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Edited by: Gamesguy on 27/03/2008 12:26:14
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Correct me if I am wrong, but a freighter has NO fitting options. There seems to be an inconsistency here.
Freighter is a capital ship, capital ships aren't meant for the solo player.
Spoken like the CCP employee you are. Oh, you're not?
Freighters are a capital ship that is well within reach of the solo player, and also one of the few that can operate in Empire. Seems to me they are quite acceptable for solo players.
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Nephiam
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.27 13:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Adeptus mecanicus
well i dont see the problem from my view coz the only thing you have to do is to use convoy tactics,
scouts and protection fore the freighter(s) and have the defenders fit some remote shield/armour rep's to strengthen the tank.
Then you have made something as boring as freighter flying to a social event, that even can bring you some pew pew b4 the attackes gets concorded
The issue is - it is High sec. So if u want to be in 0.0 - go there. All the big ass gate gankers will not last in 0.0 WHY - cause in 0.0 there is a policy (as stated) protecting oneself. That is why 0.0 is safer.
1) You know who the enemy is NBSI
2) When u do gang (social event mentioned) you do not have to ensure everyone is in the same corp and ganged up to avoid getting concrded yourself. This in iself is a bad thing meant to protect noobs. Gang should overrule all else.
3) If i am going to take a freighter out in 0.0 I will need to be in 'their' space (my danger is greater). In High sec - everyone hangs out where they want to.
It is also not about AFK flying - the freighter takes 2 minutes to warp - in that time it is scrambled, ganked and destroyed.
If Mains were used for high sec ganking then their sec status would drop making it not possible to be in High sec. In that maybe a solution - u gank someone in high sec and get a sec drop equivalant + 1 to the sec of the system ie - 1.0 sec status - drop of 2, 0.9 system - drop of 1,9 and so on.
3)
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