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Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.02.26 15:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
What is the difference between a Sani Sabik, a Blood Raider, and a follower of the core Amarrian faith?
An Amarrian judges all by their standards and attempts to force his beliefs on others. A Blooder acts as they believe is correct, takes want they want and does as they wish, answering to no one. A Sabik acts on their own beliefs, but does not presume to evangelise or consider themselves to be above all reproach.
I feel disappointed. So much mindless hate and repetition of the official line, with no thought present. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
752
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 17:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Blood Onyx wrote:A Sabik acts on their own beliefs, but does not presume to evangelise or consider themselves to be above all reproach.
You've clearly never encountered the same self-proclaimed Sani Sabik cultists as I have then...
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
186
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Posted - 2012.02.26 19:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Blood Onyx wrote:A Sabik acts on their own beliefs, but does not presume to evangelise or consider themselves to be above all reproach.
You've clearly never encountered the same self-proclaimed Sani Sabik cultists as I have then...
Onyx has the gist of the differences quite right, but unfortunately Blake is correct in criticizing that particular sentence.
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Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:Blood Onyx wrote:A Sabik acts on their own beliefs, but does not presume to evangelise or consider themselves to be above all reproach.
You've clearly never encountered the same self-proclaimed Sani Sabik cultists as I have then... Onyx has the gist of the differences quite right, but unfortunately Blake is correct in criticizing that particular sentence.
Then allow me to rephrase and clarify; a Sani Sabik has some degree of wisdom born of centuries of persecution and hatred. Those that have not cultured this either have nothing to fear, in which case they either are, or are little different from, a Blooder; or they soon die, and can be disregarded.
The belief of one's own superiority is a centrepoint of Sani Sabik. The ability of the strong to reshape the universe through pure will inevitably implies the existence of the weak. This does not necessarily mean that we can operate without consequence, or afford to entirely ignore the reproaches of others - whether we believe those reproaches to be valid or not. |
Theobar Cresthill
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.02.27 14:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Blood Onyx wrote: The belief of one's own superiority is a centrepoint of Sani Sabik.
This is the delusion of Sani Sabik. To believe that engaging in the depravity of blood ritual and then to self-designate it as "superior" is the height of megalomania and egoism.
To Hold the Wayward Children for God and Empire |
Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs
The Black Pigs Alliance
93
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 14:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Oh so the xenophobic, warmongering, slaver calls us egotistical megalomaniacs?
Bloody Omir's coming back
Monsters from the endless black
Wading through a crimson flood
Omir's come to drink your blood |
Theobar Cresthill
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.02.27 15:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Khazarn Areth wrote:Oh so the xenophobic, warmongering, slaver calls us egotistical megalomaniacs?
Xenophobic? No, true Amarrians embrace all people to bring them to God.
Warmongering? No, our battles serve only to bring people to peace with God.
Slaver? No, Holders of those wandering ones who are precious to God.
Khazarn Areth, you are an egotistical megalomaniac as are all those who led by the deception of their own self-godhood.
To Hold the Wayward Children for God and Empire |
Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs
The Black Pigs Alliance
93
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 15:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Theobar Cresthill wrote:Khazarn Areth wrote:Oh so the xenophobic, warmongering, slaver calls us egotistical megalomaniacs? Xenophobic? No, true Amarrians embrace all people to bring them to God. Warmongering? No, our battles serve only to bring people to peace with God. Slaver? No, Holders of those wandering ones who are precious to God. Khazarn Areth, you are an egotistical megalomaniac as are all those who led by the deception of their own self-godhood.
Deception? i think it is you who have been duped by the theology council into thinking your actions are justified by gods will, that your actions are not your own, they most certianly are Mr Cresthill and no amount of holy ramblings can save you or your kin.
Prehaps one day you will see the light before you become lost in your own delusion, you have free will Mr Cresthill but you are not yet free.
Bloody Omir's coming back
Monsters from the endless black
Wading through a crimson flood
Omir's come to drink your blood |
Theobar Cresthill
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.02.27 16:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Khazarn Areth wrote: you have free will Mr Cresthill but you are not yet free.
I am indeed free; free to serve God and others as His servant. You, however, are a slave to your own depravity.
To Hold the Wayward Children for God and Empire |
Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.02.27 16:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Theobar Cresthill wrote:Blood Onyx wrote: The belief of one's own superiority is a centrepoint of Sani Sabik. This is the delusion of Sani Sabik. To believe that engaging in the depravity of blood ritual and then to self-designate it as "superior" is the height of megalomania and egoism.
In other words... to consider oneself superior by right of willpower and symbolism is entirely wrong.
Fair enough. Entirely different from the belief of superiority through bloodline and religious enlightenment giving you the right to conquer entire civilisations and rewrite their societies.
...perfect sense. |
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Theobar Cresthill
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.02.27 19:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Blood Onyx wrote:...perfect sense.
I'm glad you finally see it my way.
To Hold the Wayward Children for God and Empire |
Astera Zandraki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 19:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Crazy people ranting at crazy people as to who's imaginary friend is the right one. Well done, people. |
Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs
The Black Pigs Alliance
94
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 19:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Astera Zandraki wrote:Crazy people ranting at crazy people as to who's imaginary friend is the right one. Well done, people.
Most Sani Sabik do not follow a god, this includes The Blood Raiders, please understand the topic before attempting to contribute.
And would Mr Cresthill refrain from being childish.
Bloody Omir's coming back
Monsters from the endless black
Wading through a crimson flood
Omir's come to drink your blood |
Astera Zandraki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 19:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.
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Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs
The Black Pigs Alliance
94
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Posted - 2012.02.27 19:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Astera Zandraki wrote:Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.
Each Sani Sabik sect differs wildly whilst some do indeed worship this 'Red God' as an alternative to the Loyalist Amarrian 'God' most, especially The Blood Raiders, look to themselves for strength, sometimes with the help of personal/group rituals or blooding as a form of meditation on the path to enlightenment.
Bloody Omir's coming back
Monsters from the endless black
Wading through a crimson flood
Omir's come to drink your blood |
Theobar Cresthill
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 19:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Khazarn Areth wrote: Most Sani Sabik do not follow a god, .
The Sani Sabik are Anthroentheists. They "follow" the self-enshrined, egocentric, self-deification of personal godhood. Such a theology justifies whatever they want to do, however they want to do it.
To Hold the Wayward Children for God and Empire |
Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs
The Black Pigs Alliance
94
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 19:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Theobar Cresthill wrote:Khazarn Areth wrote: Most Sani Sabik do not follow a god, . The Sani Sabik are Anthroentheists. They "follow" the self-enshrined, egocentric, self-deification of personal godhood. Such a theology justifies whatever they want to do, however they want to do it.
I do not "follow" myself, i am myself.
You on the otherhand are not yourself, you are a puppet Mr Cresthill, a puppet of an aged and dusty tome of written law that binds you in servitude to the Empire.
Prehaps you should look to yourself more for the answers rather than a book.
Bloody Omir's coming back
Monsters from the endless black
Wading through a crimson flood
Omir's come to drink your blood |
Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 19:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Astera Zandraki wrote:Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.
Common, but by no means universal. Remember, Ms Zandraki, that when people speak of Sani Sabik, they do not speak of a single, unified faith. Centuries of isolation and secrecy has ensured that there are dozens of different sects; the core may be similar, but to make sweeping generalisations beyond that core - the symbolic importance of blood, and the advancement of the self by will and strength - is dubiously accurate.
For my part, I acknowledge a God as the creator, but I do not worship him in the same way that an Amarrian might. |
Theobar Cresthill
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Khazarn Areth wrote: binds you in servitude to the Empire..
Yes, I am bound in service to the Empire.
To Hold the Wayward Children for God and Empire |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
71
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
Khazarn Areth wrote:Astera Zandraki wrote:Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.
Each Sani Sabik sect differs wildly whilst some do indeed worship this 'Red God' as an alternative to the Loyalist Amarrian 'God' most, especially The Blood Raiders, look to themselves for strength, sometimes with the help of personal/group rituals or blooding as a form of meditation on the path to enlightenment.
It might have been better to have said "many Sabik" instead of "most". Given the very large number of different sects, I would wager it rather difficult for any one person to know exactly what the differences are between all of them - even something as binary as whether they follow a god or not.
Rodj Blake wrote:Blood Onyx wrote:A Sabik acts on their own beliefs, but does not presume to evangelise or consider themselves to be above all reproach.
You've clearly never encountered the same self-proclaimed Sani Sabik cultists as I have then...
And I could say much the same to you, Admiral. In my several years as a pilot, I have met and interacted with a large variety of people from all walks of life, including a sizable number who identified themselves as Sabik, on both sides of this line. One or two particularly loud voices in a crowd are not the same as the entire crowd. For lack of a better example, Revan Neferis does not represent all Sani Sabik, just as you do not represent all "Faithful" Amarrians.
Indeed, this "quality" of presuming to evangelise or consider oneself above all reproach is not a trait unique to the Sabik. It is extremely common in capsuleers of all nationalities and loyalties, particularly including those who identify as loyal to the Empire. Boiled down without all the little details getting in the way, the difference between the Sani Sabik and Amarrian faiths, at its very core, is that one group's book says X and the other group's book says Y. Nothing more, nothing less. It's like bickering over differences in spelling or grammar between dialects of a language.
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Yes, I am bound in service to the Empire.
I get the feeling I'm voicing the unspoken sentiments of a number of people who frequent the IGS when I say that it's a pity that that service hasn't also bound your mouth shut. |
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Theobar Cresthill
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.02.27 20:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote: I get the feeling I'm voicing the unspoken sentiments of a number of people who frequent the IGS when I say that it's a pity that that service hasn't also bound your mouth shut.
I await all your sentiments with bated breath.
To Hold the Wayward Children for God and Empire |
Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs
The Black Pigs Alliance
94
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Posted - 2012.02.27 20:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:
It might have been better to have said "many Sabik" instead of "most". Given the very large number of different sects, I would wager it rather difficult for any one person to know exactly what the differences are between all of them - even something as binary as whether they follow a god or not.
Indeed, its would be near impossible to categorise and list every Sani Sabik sect/group/cult, i am mearly speaking from experience and will ammend my previous statement to include this.
Thank you for your input Ms Lagann.
Bloody Omir's coming back
Monsters from the endless black
Wading through a crimson flood
Omir's come to drink your blood |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
571
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 22:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Hm. Sani Sabik religious practices are rather... unconventional, and downright abhorrent when they victimize innocent and unwilling subjects. They are no better than the Amarr practice of "enslaving you for your own good". That said, Areth, if I find myself in your vicinity, do not expect friendliness.
That said, do all Sani Sabik sects ascribe to forced blood sacrifice? Edit: I should clarify: while all Sani Sabik rely on blood in some manner or another, how do other sects go about it?
Also, does consuming blood have an effect on intelligence and coherence? Followers of the vanilla Amarr faith seem to me mouthbreathers far more often.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs
The Black Pigs Alliance
94
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 22:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
That said, do all Sani Sabik sects ascribe to forced blood sacrifice? Edit: I should clarify: while all Sani Sabik rely on blood in some manner or another, how do other sects go about it?
Also, does consuming blood have an effect on intelligence and coherence? Followers of the vanilla Amarr faith seem to me mouthbreathers far more often.
I wouldnt know how all sects go about it, some have been known engage in a simple blooding ritual where they share a few drops apon an alter before meditation, there is one sect i know of in Gallente space that activly shares the blood of the coven between members wheras myself and fellow Covenant members will happily enlighten those who cross our path with the use of hallowed blooding methods in which we take all the captures blood slowly, to make them whole at last.
Blood is used as it is a symbol of life, strength and power as to affecting intellegence and coherence in my case it is a yes i find the taste and smell relaxes me along the path to complete enlightenment, though i have had dealings in the past with a null sec Sabik cult that laced the ritual blood with several different narcotics to, in their words, "Delve deeper into their mind".
To ask of the Sani Sabik faith is to receive many different answers depending on whom you speak to but i hope i have answered some of your questions.
Bloody Omir's coming back
Monsters from the endless black
Wading through a crimson flood
Omir's come to drink your blood |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
571
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 22:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Indeed you have. It sounds like some Sabik practices may actually be inspired by Matari tribal rituals. I learned something new today, I suppose.
Now back to our regular broadcast of Amarr fundamentalists shouting "Heretic!!" at the top of their lungs.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.02.27 23:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Indeed you have. It sounds like some Sabik practices may actually be inspired by Matari tribal rituals. I learned something new today, I suppose.
Now back to our regular broadcast of Amarr fundamentalists shouting "Heretic!!" at the top of their lungs.
Not at all unlikely. One might go so far as to say probable. It is the nature of a scattered religion to acquire the traits of others that appear to be compatible and inspiring.
For my part, almost all blood rites I have undertaken have been between willing participants, and although rather more than a few drops were involved, there were no fatalities. Those one or two rites using unwilling participants were carried out in the spirit of victory over an enemy; if one is to forcibly take the blood of an individual, it should have some significance and meaning, not a soul picked at random from a crowd. The vast majority of the universe does not have our luxury of returning from death; to take a life is a sacred act, and should be treated as such - that is, with respect and consideration. |
Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
11
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Posted - 2012.02.28 05:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
Excellent opportunity for research, and it looks like I am done with mine. Some findings:
There is absolutely no difference between the Blood Raiders and the Sani Sabik, they are effectively, at least spiritually and traditionally, one in the same.
Any references to a deity, be it a "Red God" or otherwise, is basically just a cult within a cult. Neither Blood Raiders nor the Sani Sabik at large practice any sort of deism, it is more akin to tribal witchcraft.
There is no actual faith involved, it is essentially superstition mixed the idea that a man can be better than another man.
The picture is much clearer to me now. Thanks to all who participated.
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Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
69
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Posted - 2012.02.28 06:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Indeed you have. It sounds like some Sabik practices may actually be inspired by Matari tribal rituals. I learned something new today, I suppose.
Now back to our regular broadcast of Amarr fundamentalists shouting "Heretic!!" at the top of their lungs.
Such is the case between more belief systems than many people realize, and it is of constant annoyance to radical and militant followers of these varying faiths that they actually have more in common in ritual and belief than they would care to admit. But of course, as the saying goes, the devil is in the details. |
Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.02.28 07:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Boma Airaken wrote:Excellent opportunity for research, and it looks like I am done with mine. Some findings:
There is absolutely no difference between the Blood Raiders and the Sani Sabik, they are effectively, at least spiritually and traditionally, one in the same.
Any references to a deity, be it a "Red God" or otherwise, is basically just a cult within a cult. Neither Blood Raiders nor the Sani Sabik at large practice any sort of deism, it is more akin to tribal witchcraft.
There is no actual faith involved, it is essentially superstition mixed the idea that a man can be better than another man.
The picture is much clearer to me now. Thanks to all who participated.
As Ms Fehrnah says, the devil is in the details. The discussion thus far has been mainly restricted to the shared core of Sani Sabik. Generalisation is a dangerous game.
But to some extent at least, you are correct. |
Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
11
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Posted - 2012.02.28 10:57:00 -
[60] - Quote
Frankly I think the generalization that the Sani Sabik are godless heathens is pretty safe. |
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