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Pirate Suplier
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.27 18:08:00 -
[1]
Maybe ECM's should get nerfed a bit. I'm not saying nerf them totaly (balance between recons is great in my opinion), but at least nerf the range on ECM's. Having 2 Falcons for example uncloacking on u in middle of battle at 150km range is just something u cant win, even if u manage to lock something from time to time 
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Pirate Suplier
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.27 18:08:00 -
[2]
Maybe ECM's should get nerfed a bit. I'm not saying nerf them totaly (balance between recons is great in my opinion), but at least nerf the range on ECM's. Having 2 Falcons for example uncloacking on u in middle of battle at 150km range is just something u cant win, even if u manage to lock something from time to time
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Conq Er
Sweetrock Mining
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Posted - 2008.03.27 18:31:00 -
[3]
Bring your own Falcons and jam the Falcons, and let the rest have a decent fight 
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d3vo
Airborne Assassins
Order of the Black Cross
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Posted - 2008.03.27 19:48:00 -
[4]
yep, the ships and drones...i hate ecm, makes gaming too easy for the killer and lame for the killed
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Ferocious FeAr
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.03.27 20:12:00 -
[5]
Falcon's have a bonus to ECM, they are supposed to jam targets with relative ease. The only thing that needs to be adjusted is the ECM drones. Those are overpowered.
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.03.27 20:27:00 -
[6]
So what you're saying is they brought a well rounded gang, and you didn't and you got owned?
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 21:47:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: James Lyrus
So what you're saying is they brought a well rounded gang, and you didn't and you got owned?
this
signed o/
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d3vo
Airborne Assassins
Order of the Black Cross
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Posted - 2008.03.28 00:06:00 -
[8]
Edited by: d3vo on 28/03/2008 00:06:51
Originally by: James Lyrus
So what you're saying is they brought a well rounded gang, and you didn't and you got owned?
1v1, person with 5 ecm drones will (i bet) 99% of the time win (in a reasonably even fight)
to counter this, we gotta waste a mid slot to fit eccm
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.28 00:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Conq Er
Bring your own Falcons and jam the Falcons, and let the rest have a decent fight
Is that what they told people back in the gankageddon days? "bring your own 8xheatsinked gankageddon". No, they nerfed it. Falcon will get the nerf bat soon enough too.
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[Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
jade ronin
Appetite 4 Destruction
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.28 05:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 28/03/2008 00:06:51
Originally by: James Lyrus
So what you're saying is they brought a well rounded gang, and you didn't and you got owned?
1v1, person with 5 ecm drones will (i bet) 99% of the time win (in a reasonably even fight)
to counter this, we gotta waste a mid slot to fit eccm
its not wasted if you dont get jammed out... ecm only works well on ecm ships so why does it need to be nurfed? because you refuse to counter it? not seeing how they are over powered. as for the other statment about range being unfair then you have to stop all sniper ships too cus i cant shoot back in my blaster setup..... yeah that makes sence
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Xiong Yoshi
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.28 06:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 28/03/2008 00:06:51
Originally by: James Lyrus
So what you're saying is they brought a well rounded gang, and you didn't and you got owned?
1v1, person with 5 ecm drones will (i bet) 99% of the time win (in a reasonably even fight)
to counter this, we gotta waste a mid slot to fit eccm
Ever thought about fitting a smartbomb? Or maybe just deploying your Warrior II's and letting them auto aggro the ECM drones? They can't jam you - if they are dead.
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There are only two types of ships: those which have blown up; and those which will.
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.03.28 06:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: d3vo
waste a mid slot to fit eccm
are you new here? first time reconciling offense with defense?
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Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.28 07:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 28/03/2008 07:53:29
Projected ECCM works wonders in a gang expecting to come up against Falcons/whatnot (fit some remote ECCM on a drake or something and have it assist a BS). It's also a lot more effective than local ECCM, with 2 of them (even from a frigate) being able to boost a Battleship's sensor strength to that of a Carrier.
...
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 09:16:00 -
[14]
The Falcon has pretty much the same jamming power as the Rook did, before the changes... even though people told us that ECM had been nerfed to oblivion and was useless. 
Th only real problem is that the Rook is obsolete. The Falcon's cloak is a huge advantage - it should have a 15% bonus/level, rather than 20%. I'm a Falcon pilot.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.28 10:28:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/03/2008 10:30:40
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/03/2008 10:29:15
Originally by: d3vo
1v1, person with 5 ecm drones will (i bet) 99% of the time win (in a reasonably even fight)
to counter this, we gotta waste a mid slot to fit eccm
This is incorrect, and there are many cases where it's actual damage drones you want rather then ECM, and many cases where a damage drone ship will win over a ECM drone one even in a 1v1.
Damage drone ships can have other advantages (like, having a set of Warrior IIs with drone nav V, exceptionally useful thing).
Naturally, for 1v1s, as the ratio of turret damage vs drone damage slates more towards turret damage (and as hitpoints/etc are decreased, meaning the 20s jam means more), ECMs are comparatively more valuable, which is why you like ECM drones on total gank fits more then on tank fits.
As for Falcons: you need to bring your own Falcons if the other guy is bringing Falcons. Of course, with Falcons being cloaky-cloaky, you just need to bring your own Falcons on any serious fight so if Falcons uncloak you can jam them with your Falcons. Yay, Falcons. 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Jallem Sims
Exploring Blind
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Posted - 2008.03.28 11:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jallem Sims on 28/03/2008 11:34:38
i just trained ECM drones \o/
used them last night in a 3v7 situation.... the 3 of us complelty owned, but we all lost our drones as the ships not jammed killed the drones (i was only with ecm drones).
tbh if your going solo, its based on chance anyway... your betting on if he has a certain setup or not. He might have dropped his web for eccm, hey, might even have ecm drones himself.. and then you can both laugh at each other not being able to lock... lol
nothing wrong with ecm drones, nothing wrong with ecm. I have (annoyingly alot of times) tackled in my inty hacs that can't get away till his falcon (noob) friend saves him. while i hated him for it!!! i didn't come to the forum to whine. I understand the role it has.
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King Hopy
Beasts of Burden
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Posted - 2008.03.28 13:08:00 -
[17]
Maybe.. just maybe you should start using ECCM?
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.28 14:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: King Hopy
Maybe.. just maybe you should start using ECCM?
Maybe ECCM needs a boost?
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[Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.03.28 14:44:00 -
[19]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 28/03/2008 14:44:48
crow pack, FoF's they will disengange pretty quick.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
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Derek Sigres
Eternal Guardians Corp.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.28 19:41:00 -
[20]
I guess this MIGHT be crazy talk but the Rook is an even better counter to a falcon than another falcon. Afterall, it gets faster locks at longer natural ranges meaning the Rook can, if he's on his toes, lock the falcon and shut him down before the falcon can do any harm.
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Tammarr
Trident RMBK
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:22:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tammarr on 28/03/2008 20:22:46
Boost ECCM a tad bit more. Nerf falcon to 15% so we can use the rook again =)
I fit ECCM to my closerange mega if I got a remote rep, not if I have a heavy neut. All to balance the gang, we also make use of remote eccm from ships with 5 mids, works wonders realy =) And "well rounded" gang is the key, able to work with the tools they bring; we do try to have a ship or two with one smartbomb equiped so we can deal with enemy drones. Works quite nicely, till you run into guys that have no resemblance to coordination/use of tactics beyond max dps/max buffer f1-f8 on primary and then smack in local =(
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: James Lyrus
So what you're saying is they brought a well rounded gang, and you didn't and you got owned?
Pretty much.
ECM is right where it needs to be. It's powerful, the ships doing it sacrifice all else to be able to do it, and are paper thin and easily destroyed by any number of things. They are about as far from a solo pwn mobile as you can be.
If anything, other Ewar needs to be brought up to be closer to ECM in power. It still shouldn't be as good, since other ewar ships aren't dedicated ewar platforms the way caldari are, and caldari are the slow, long range, hi tech race and thus should have the best ewar anyway, but gallente recons and perhaps even amarr recons need to be better at their ewar.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.29 00:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tammarr
Edited by: Tammarr on 28/03/2008 20:22:46
Boost ECCM a tad bit more. Nerf falcon to 15% so we can use the rook again =)
Listen to this man, he is minmatar but he is wise.
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[Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2008.03.29 04:47:00 -
[24]
Nah, stop the nerfs. Just make the other recons as efficient in their respective fields. Especially gallente recon needing a deserved buff.
Help promote the "boost low-sec"-project.
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Dristra
Shadows of the Dead
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.04.01 21:56:00 -
[25]
Maybe ECCM should be boosted? still, is there any one other electronic warfare mode that is this effective?
Damps: close to useless now (No question.)
Target painting: yea...
Neuts: Great ew, to bad the pilgrim gets a S U C K bonus, and not a range bonus
Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions!
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.01 22:01:00 -
[26]
Quote:
still, is there any one other electronic warfare mode that is this effective?
No, and there shouldn't be, since Caldari are the slow long range hi tech race.
Still, gallente and even amarr econs *do* need to be better at their jobs. I want to see more potent forms of e-war out there, not less.
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Dristra
Shadows of the Dead
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.04.01 22:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
still, is there any one other electronic warfare mode that is this effective?
No, and there shouldn't be, since Caldari are the slow long range hi tech race.
Still, gallente and even amarr econs *do* need to be better at their jobs. I want to see more potent forms of e-war out there, not less.
Flavor is not an excuse for poor balance. (and you just agreed that ecm is the best ew, owned)
Buffing the other recons a bit is a good first step
Like changing painters from torp buffers to ew (Odin! These things are a joke.)
Giving galante recons a greater damp bonus
Giving the pilgrim range
Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions!
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.01 23:56:00 -
[28]
Edited by: maralt on 02/04/2008 00:02:16
This is just nerf leap frog, damps were over powered compared to ecm so ppl nerfed damps now ecm is overpowered so nerf ecm. I suppose damps will be next again and after a few more turns the arazu, lachesis, celestis, falcon blackbird and rook will be another bunch of unused ships in eve.
Then the morons who still suck at pvp and fly around in stupidly fitted ships with no idea how to use them will move on to another module/ship to nerf because there egos are to big to realize its them that need fixing and sorting out pvp wise not the ships or modules in eve.
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Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 02/04/2008 00:02:16
This is just nerf leap frog, damps were over powered compared to ecm so ppl nerfed damps now ecm is overpowered so nerf ecm. I suppose damps will be next again and after a few more turns the arazu, lachesis, celestis, falcon blackbird and rook will be another bunch of unused ships in eve.
Then the morons who still suck at pvp and fly around in stupidly fitted ships with no idea how to use them will move on to another module/ship to nerf because there egos are to big to realize its them that need fixing and sorting out pvp wise not the ships or modules in eve.
Well, you think wrong. There are alot of good pvpers that simply DO NOT LIKE ECM. Im one of them. Imo there are more skilless morons that ARE using ECM because they cant win any other way.
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[Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.02 01:34:00 -
[30]
ECM may be ok, but no one can argue that other recons can't come close to the awesome power of Falcon. Falcon dwarfs them all as the ultimate gang support EW platform.
I think ECCM boost is in order, and scripts for other EW modules should be boosted
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